The Holocaust was a lie

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

Here is a debate thread since the poll was deemed unsatisfactory. It resulted in a joint win for the "no" and "maybe" votes, meaning YCM officially denies the Holocaust. But do you!?

 

Here are some links to fill you in on the claims of both sides of this little-known squabble:

 

Pro-existence: https://www.ushmm.org

https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust

http://holocaustlearning.org/survivors

 

Anti-existence: https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com

http://auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/

https://pastebin.com/MSvkCCRy

[BLASTERZ]

I'll say the holocaust is real once turkey admits the armenian genocide is real.

 

and this is no spam, its a fact that liberal media often ignores such content such as the likes of the young TURKS

[Resident Fascist]

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

https://pastebin.com/MSvkCCRy

[Yui]

Please edit the OP with some points for and/or against the Holocaust existing or not. While I legitimately think this would be an interesting subject to debate - even if I'm not too keen on the context of how it came up - you have an obligation as OP in Debates to bring some points for or against either side to the table, or both if you feel like it. You have twenty-four hours as of this post going up to make this a proper Debates thread, or it will be treated as spam and handled accordingly.

I'll say the holocaust is real once turkey admits the armenian genocide is real

The same applies to you. Edit it into something less spammy in twenty-four hours, or it will be treated as spam.

[Tentacruel]

You can't funking fake 6 million people being murdered.

 

The Armenian Genocide is also real.

[ihop]

You can't funking fake 6 million people being murdered.

 

The Armenian Genocide is also real.

 

6 million Jews*

[Yui]

Looking at the direction these responses are going, I'm going to go ahead and pre-emptively put this in misc.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

Looking at the direction these responses are going, I'm going to go ahead and pre-emptively put this in misc.

:thinking:

 

Could you not instead punish the posts that you see as unsuitable for the debates section? I added what you wanted to the OP, I don't see why the thread gets moved on the merit of its replies rather than the replies you see as misc-tier being punished.

[Yui]

:thinking:

 

Could you not instead punish the posts that you see as unsuitable for the debates section? I added what you wanted to the OP, I don't see why the thread gets moved on the merit of its replies rather than the replies you see as misc-tier being punished.

Because if I do that I have to hand out...

 

*counts*

 

Three teeny-tiny spam warns, plus probably more if all the future replies end up in the same super-short nature. It's easy in theory, and if the warn system was working I'd probably just do that instead, but while it's broken doing three of those with the very real potential for more is really tedious. You done good though, don't worry.

[ihop]

What about any of the responses to this thread is a problem?

[BLASTERZ]

Looking at the direction these responses are going, I'm going to go ahead and pre-emptively put this in misc.

Yeah wow but I'm the only person getting 2 wp

[Yui]

What about any of the responses to this thread is a problem?

They're short and, from what I've seen of Debates in the past, don't quite hold up to what one should expect in the section. I could be wrong, I could be right, I don't know, but that's what I settled on. I thought we had some form of advanced clause in Debates but after re-checking, turns out I was mistaken. Gonna take a bit to reconsider where this belongs now that I've remembered that.

 

Yeah wow but I'm the only person getting 2 wp

Because while they were short, at least the other posts had some kind of a point.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Because while they were short, at least the other posts had some kind of a point.

He actually has a point. There are a lot of atrocities in the world that just get ignored.

[Yui]

He actually has a point. There are a lot of atrocities in the world that just get ignored.

But how does that help settle on if this particular one is real or not? Saying you'll admit it's real if another nation admits another thing is real doesn't really help one side or the other on if the thing we're here to talk about actually happened.

[Yui]

After thinking about it for a bit, gonna move this back to Debates. I should also note updating the Debates rules (including adding a (fairly lenient) Advanced Clause; that was what tripped me up into thinking we had one already) is next on my to-do list when I get the General rules done, which should be today. This thread will not be subject to whatever Advanced Clause I implement if it's still alive when I do it.

 

Happy debating, and keep it civil.

[Sunshine Jesse]

THIS is what YCM is debating about now? Really? The first debate thread in months is about Holocaust denial because a mean-spirited parody of an actual human being brought it up? 

 

lol ok

 

There's no debate to be had whatsoever. There won't be any serious posts because nobody who actually believes it didn't happen is a serious person. It's okay to be skeptical of anything (no matter what), but reaching this deeply just to deny a genocide is telling, to say the least.

[BLASTERZ]

But how does that help settle on if this particular one is real or not? Saying you'll admit it's real if another nation admits another thing is real doesn't really help one side or the other on if the thing we're here to talk about actually happened.

Yeah you as a mod gets to decide whats a point and whats not a point

[Mr. Hyde]

Now this should be really fun!  Revisionism is like...my favorite part about history.  After all, if you take history as fact at face value, especially when you're a child and don't know how to think for yourself, you might as well be sheep.  I was just reading into this, and I find it quite odd that the population of Jewish people increased from 1933-1948.  I believe it was from the Jewish World Almanac.  But some people say the 1948 numbers are pre-war estiamtes...which seems odd to me.  3 years since the war ends and they can't get a good census number?  Not to mention all of the Red Cross information, and pictures of emaciated prisoners actually being photos of Communist Gulags.  It's hard to believe what to know is real, seeing as how information was so controlled back then.  It wasn't as easily available as it is nowadays.  That's why revisionism is so important.  

[BehindTheMask]

Now this should be really fun!  Revisionism is like...my favorite part about history.  After all, if you take history as fact at face value, especially when you're a child and don't know how to think for yourself, you might as well be sheep.  I was just reading into this, and I find it quite odd that the population of Jewish people increased from 1933-1948.  I believe it was from the Jewish World Almanac.  But some people say the 1948 numbers are pre-war estiamtes...which seems odd to me.  3 years since the war ends and they can't get a good census number?  Not to mention all of the Red Cross information, and pictures of emaciated prisoners actually being photos of Communist Gulags.  It's hard to believe what to know is real, seeing as how information was so controlled back then.  It wasn't as easily available as it is nowadays.  That's why revisionism is so important.  

 

Post the link to where you found that the Jewish Population increased. I mean, this site has an explanation to your claim: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/holocaust-denial/

 

If things can be controlled and altered, how can we be sure of anything at all? How can we prove that there was a first World War? You can't construct an argument saying that, because it leads to epistemic problems of how we know things. Either you have concrete evidence of there being no holocaust, or you have to disprove evidence that states the holocaust is real. 

 

It would be similar to if I told you that a man broke into my house last night, sprinkled cheerios all over the ground and drank all my milk. How could say that didn't happen? Since you can't disprove my point, then surely this must have happened right?

[Ire]

It would be similar to if I told you that a man broke into my house last night, sprinkled cheerios all over the ground and drank all my milk. How could say that didn't happen? Since you can't disprove my point, then surely this could have happened right? (now that I think of it maybe that part was ironic too...)

 

History work is based on evidence and is supposed to be factual and neutral, which is of course not totally possible. But to consider the phenomenal amount of documents and testimonies (that are comforting the fact that there were such a genocide) as null would be a huge mistake. Historians work on 'facts' : there are documents (pictures, letters, testimonies, plans,...) that for the most part are still accesible. Then  they have to choose a direction for what is supposed to have happened. This is where they can't be absolutely objective, because what they do is an interpretation of what happened, based on 'facts'. So let's assume there are enough evidences and enough serious historians who have different point of views on the same subject, but in a way they agree on some key points of their interpretation. These key points are quite dificult to call 'wrong', because specialist agree on them. To tell them false, you need yourself an amount of coherent evidence that proves it. But if it were the case, historians would have taken them into account in order to make their interpretation.

 

So, as there are enough evidence that induce that the holocaust happened, and as this genocide is considered as what I called a 'key point' among historians, it remains 2 theories :

- There is a conspiracy among historians not to let us know the truth. They are inventing the history we learn because they're manipulated by rich communist jews, or they are jews themselves. Their aim : controlling the world by inspiring remorse.

- What I called evidence, or 'facts', are fake ones !! They were crafted by rich communist jews' slaves so the jews can control the world by inspiring remorse.