[Leaderboard] Season 14 Postseason (Match 1-2)

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

General stuff

- First to 3 votes or whoever gets the most votes by 9:00 pm HST on 8/20/2016 wins
- Voters must elaborate on their votes
- Participants or I reserve the right to nullify votes if reasoning is insufficient.

- Winner moves on to round 2 and receives a rep from the opponent
- All voters will get reps for accepted votes.

Requirement

Make a WIND Wyrm-Type Synchro Monster

 

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Card A

 

 

1 Tuner + 1 or more Non-Tuner monsters
Cannot be targeted by the effects of Spell/Trap cards your opponent controls. Each time a Spelll/Trap card leaves the field, this card gains 1 Wisdom Counter (max. 6). For each Wisdom Counter on this card, it gains 300 ATK and DEF. Once per turn, you can remove 3 Wisdom Counters from this card to activate 1 of the following effects:
• Target 1 Spell/Trap card in your Graveyard; add it to your hand, and then discard 1 card.
• Target 1 Spell/Trap card in your opponent's Graveyard; Banish it, also you and your opponent cannot activate any Spell/Trap card that has the same name as the banished card until the end of the next turn.
• Look at the top 3 cards of your opponent's Deck, and then place them back in any order.

 

Card B

 

Hiryuu, Dragon of the Tempest
Level 7 - WIND - Wyrm - Synchro - Effect

2400/1800
1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner WIND monsters
If this card is Synchro Summoned: You can target 1 card on the field; return it to the hand. Cannot be targeted by an opponent's card effects. You can banish 1 WIND monster from your Graveyard that has a Level; Special Summon 1 WIND monster from your Graveyard whose Level is equal to or lower than the banished monster's Level. You can only use each effect of "Hiryuu, Dragon of the Tempest" once per turn.

[Yuuji Kazami]

A is one of the most awkward Level 7 cards I've seen based off of Aztec mythology. Honestly, it would've been strong and simple enough with the non-target effect and the Wisdom Counter effect. Like really, a generating 4100 ATK Level 7 Sync is alright as it is for the effects, lol, with only Clear Wing possibly getting to that ATK, although it only lasts until the End Phase for it. Looking at the OPT effects for 900 ATK... They're actually alright. First S/T recycler is powerful, second one can possibly freeze Solemns for a turn if it doesn't get negated itself rofl, or cause havoc in mirror matches. Third isn't that good, but you can force your opponent to draw garbage on their next turn maybe. Only the first effect seems to be the major one out of the 3, so it's kind of redundant in my opinion to include the other 2 which makes the card more awkward.

 

B is a nice generic... For WIND I guess. Simple but effective, with a S/T or Monster Compulse, a non-target, and a Summoning effect at the end. The only problem is that I can't really see much WIND Decks using this since the majority of them nowadays focus on Xyz, so finding a Deck that can use this card effectively with the low ATK may be a problem.

 

So in the end, it comes down to an awkward but possibly more effective card vs a simple but not as effective card, although the potential is there.

 

Looks like A gets this one. I also liked B personally, but the effects don't seem to synergize well. B also needs a non-Tuner WIND to be able to be Summoned, and as I stated previously, there's not any good WIND Decks that can use this card properly and effectively. You'd get a harder to Summon monster with not enough bang for your buck, since its effects aren't really useful if it stays on the field. Compulse and the non-target is fine, but you could've just made it more generic as well as altered the effects to make the card more effective.

 

So yeah, voting for A.

[Bellringer Angel]

A is one of the most awkward Level 7 cards I've seen based off of Aztec mythology. Honestly, it would've been strong and simple enough with the non-target effect and the Wisdom Counter effect. Like really, a generating 4100 ATK Level 7 Sync is alright as it is for the effects, lol, with only Clear Wing possibly getting to that ATK, although it only lasts until the End Phase for it. Looking at the OPT effects for 900 ATK... They're actually alright. First S/T recycler is powerful, second one can possibly freeze Solemns for a turn if it doesn't get negated itself rofl, or cause havoc in mirror matches. Third isn't that good, but you can force your opponent to draw garbage on their next turn maybe. Only the first effect seems to be the major one out of the 3, so it's kind of redundant in my opinion to include the other 2 which makes the card more awkward.

 

B is a nice generic. Simple but effective, with a Compulse, non-target, and a Summoning effect at the end. The only problem is that I can't really see much WIND Decks using this since the majority of them nowadays focus on Xyz, so finding a Deck that can use this card effectively with the low ATK may be a problem.

 

So in the end, it comes down to an awkward but possibly more effective card vs a simple but not as effective card, although the potential is there.

 

Looks like A gets this one. I also liked B personally, but the effects don't seem to synergize well. B also needs a non-Tuner WIND to be able to be Summoned, and as I stated previously, there's not any good WIND Decks that can use this card properly and effectively. *cough* don't forget SPEEDROIDS & DRAGUNITIES *cough* You'd get a harder to Summon monster with not enough bang for your buck, since its effects aren't really useful if it stays on the field. Compulse and the non-target is fine, but you could've just made it more generic as well as altered the effects to make the card more effective.

 

So yeah, voting for A.

I wish to deny the vote, because Card B is not as ineffective as you think, due to these reasons.

 

1. Speedroids/Dragunities exist, and Card B allows them to summon Crystal Wing with ease. For example, one of the 1st turn combos (for Speedroids) with Card B is...

-Terrortop in hand.

-Special Summon Terrortop.

-Add Taketomborg, and Special Summon it.

-Tribute it to Special Summon Red-Eyed Dice.

-Make Terrortop Level 6.

-Synchro Summon Card B.

-Use its 2nd effect by banishing Taketomborg to Special Summon Red-Eyed Dice.

-Synchro Summon Crystal Wing.

-Do whatever you want with the 4 cards in hand. (And realize that you didn't Normal Summon yet!)

 

2. The "Compulse" effect targets 1 "card", not 1 "monster" (which is one of the reasons why the card is NOT generic).

[Yuuji Kazami]

Again, you're debating 1 deck against all the other Decks. Even considering Speedroids and Dragunities seperately, there are much more decks that can run A over B. The fact that B wasn't even a good generic was my point, making it LESS effective than A.

 

I admit that the combo suggested above does exist, but you've only given the ideal scenerio for B to be used above. Again, this combo is only possible in the Deck(s) you suggested, which is Speedroid, Dragunity, or a mix. This further proves my point of A being more generic considering it's a generic Level 7. However, it was somewhat of a poor oversight on my part for forgetting the Speedroid engine, since it does have very good capability with B.

 

When I said Compulse, it obvious refers to the bouncing of a card to the hand. Perhaps it wasn't the ideal short term I should've used for the bounce effect. I'll change that.

 

I'll look over A again and do a little more research then. The attack boosting and the first effect that removed the counters for A made it feel like it packed more of a punch than B, which is why I voted for it in the first place.

 

Of course, if Sakura decides to vote and finish this before I finish looking stuff up because DN is dead, then consider my vote null.

[Bellringer Angel]

Again, you're debating 1 deck against all the other Decks. Even considering Speedroids and Dragunities seperately, there are much more decks that can run A over B. The fact that B wasn't even a good generic was my point, making it LESS effective than A.

I admit that the combo suggested above does exist, but you've only given the ideal scenerio for B to be used above. Again, this combo is only possible in the Deck(s) you suggested, which is Speedroid, Dragunity, or a mix. This further proves my point of A being more generic considering it's a generic Level 7. However, it was somewhat of a poor oversight on my part for forgetting the Speedroid engine, since it does have very good capability with B.

When I said Compulse, it obvious refers to the bouncing of a card to the hand. Perhaps it wasn't the ideal short term I should've used for the bounce effect. I'll change that.

I'll look over A again and do a little more research then. The attack boosting and the first effect that removed the counters for A made it feel like it packed more of a punch than B, which is why I voted for it in the first place.

Of course, if Sakura decides to vote and finish this before I finish looking stuff up because DN is dead, then consider my vote null.

The problem is that there is literally nothing wrong with exclusively making a card for an archetype or two (aka making a card NOT generic). Cards shouldn't be judged by how generic it is, but should be judged for its effectiveness in the archetype(s) that it was intended to be used in (which in this case is Synchro-based WIND archetypes).

[Yuuji Kazami]

I never said that there was something wrong with the card exclusively belonging to an archetype, but I only feel that cards that can be used by almost all archetypes are better than ones specifically restricted to specific archetypes. I only stated which card that I believed was better. I considered both cards in: how generic it is, how balanced its effects are, and how much flavour it contains. 

 

Not only that, I'm pretty sure I pointed out that B has less chance of lasting on the field and doing more as opposed to A. A's effects boost its stats up much quicker, and it also poses a threat to your opponent since A gets stronger each time a S/T (yours or your opponent's) gets removed from the field.

 

I think this is going to where what you believe is a better card. I do judge effectiveness overall in general. Like I said, the ATK boosting effect + the S/T recycling made me feel that A is better than B. You can have B and a Clear Wing out, I suppose, but in the ideal situation that A actually decides to remove 3 counters to resolve one of its effects, I just FEEL that the card itself is better at controlling the game down once it hits the field.

 

Again, I'm not done researching for A. B is strictly limited to Speedroids and Dragunities, so I don't need to look further for it. So like i said previously, if Sakura votes before I finish, then consider my vote null.

[Bellringer Angel]

I never said that there was something wrong with the card exclusively belonging to an archetype, but I only feel that cards that can be used by almost all archetypes are better than ones specifically restricted to specific archetypes. I only stated which card that I believed was better. I considered both cards in: how generic it is, how balanced its effects are, and how much flavour it contains.

 

Following that logic, a Synchro monster exclusively for Speedroids with an effect like "If this card is Synchro Summoned, you can: Immediately after this effect resolves, Normal Summon 1 "Speedroid" monster from your hand or Deck" is not that good because it's only usable in Speedroids.

 

Not only that, I'm pretty sure I pointed out that B has less chance of lasting on the field and doing more as opposed to A. A's effects boost its stats up much quicker, and it also poses a threat to your opponent since A gets stronger each time a S/T (yours or your opponent's) gets removed from the field.

 

That's also like saying Gem-Knight Seraphinite is not that good because it has less chance of lasting on the field.

 

I think this is going to where what you believe is a better card. I do judge effectiveness overall in general. Like I said, the ATK boosting effect + the S/T recycling made me feel that A is better than B. You can have B and a Clear Wing out, I suppose, but in the ideal situation that A actually decides to remove 3 counters to resolve one of its effects, I just FEEL that the card itself is better at controlling the game down once it hits the field.

 

The main problem is that Card A normally needs more than 1 turn to gain 3 counters (unless you go out of your way), and its targeting protection is too underwhelming for it to survive in the metagame, because what's stopping your opponent from using monster effects (which is very relevant right now) to remove it?

 

Again, I'm not done researching for A. B is strictly limited to Speedroids and Dragunities, so I don't need to look further for it. So like i said previously, if Sakura votes before I finish, then consider my vote null.

Sorry for the bad grammar.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Card A has some protection from stuff like Majespecter backrow (yes, all of their original stuff targets) and things like Compulsory Evacuation Device (if that's still being used). Suppose its counter gaining thing might have some use to various degrees, considering the presence of backrow removal like MST, Twin Twisters, Cosmic Cyclone and the like, plus Scale popping in certain Decks (i.e. stuff like Igknight/Metalfoes for blowing your own stuff up for searching/set power).

 

Going on to the counter stuff; first one would be neat for recovering key staples (usually at less than 3) or an Archetype card that you don't have the luxury of searching or hoping to draw on a later turn; I'd say either of those situations are likely nowadays. Second one is kinda iffy with consideration that you need to predict what the opponent will play; usually staples that are commonly run in multiples. Last one's nice for messing up the opponent's Deck (and/or getting an idea of what they might do the following turn), but given the amount of searching power that exists; it's basically only going to get you a very general glimpse at upcoming stuff. Suppose it fits into its design source to an extent, but yeah. 

 

Its effects are good though. 

 

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Card B is an on-summon Compulsory for any card on-summon, which is nice, coupled with targeting protection (which still exists); out of fairness, this one has better protection than A. Deck-wise, yeah there's Dragunities and Gustos (if those are still relevant nowadays), Speedroids, the new Wind Witch stuff (though more needs to be revealed on them; they should be able to make this quick enough). Basically, it's a on-summon Black Rose Moonlight Dragon with an expanded reach for WIND decks. The second effect is pretty much revival for them. Speedroids can use this to banish dead stuff to re-trigger stuff like Terrortop / Taketomborg (they can just recover said banished fodder via Chanbara, so there's one possible use). Not sure if they'd want to run this over Clear Wing though, but at least it's another valid target for them if you do go Level 7; I could probably see a slot opened up for this card in Decks that can actually use this (which is pretty much the above, though I may have missed some other stuff).

 

So yeah, despite this card's limited applications to WIND decks (which are further compounded by lack of viable WIND decks in the present day), it does its job well. Personally, I think that card B could've had generic mats as well; while yes, it is a on-summon Compulse, that's about the extent of its power outside of its intended Decks (which isn't bad). But otherwise, its on-summon effect is fine even with the WIND restriction. (Suppose you could've put an OPT on it if you had chosen to make this generic)

 

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In the end, it boils down to this:

 

Card A: Generic, S/T target protection, builds off the removal of S/T on the field to get stronger and can do certain types of things if you have enough fuel for it.

Card B: Non-generic [well, Speedroids and stuff can make it], targeting immunity, full board range Compulse and revival for WIND monsters

 

A is more accessible for Level 7 decks and can be considered more of a generic for Decks that want it, but it does require that you either play a Deck that can remove S/T quickly (see Metalfoes; Goldriver + Usagi can make this off E-Teleport) or hope you're dueling someone that blows backrow up (or uses it frequently) to function optimally. B is restricted to only a handful of Decks at the moment, but in return, it offers targeting immunity, bounces anything you wish and helps to revive things.

 

Both are good, but I'm voting B for being more consistent in the long run, all facts considered on the candidate decks, despite the restrictions. [For the record, B is ~nya~'s card]

 

(Yuuji will get a rep for spending time to vote on this though)