Dova wins 3-0 RIP

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

I must destroy the one thing Dova has. And now the copypasta.

 

Rules:
-All Leaderboard rules apply.
First to 3 votes or most votes by the deadline wins.
All voters must elaborate on their votes.
Both contestants have the right to refuse votes, but must explain why they don't accept it.
-Written cards are allowed. (Must be in written format, cards with blank pictures are not acceptable)
-Cards must be PM'd to me.
-Remove any evidence of the card being made by you to ensure anonymity.
-In case a downtime happens, the deadlines may be extended.
 
Rewards:
-The winner gets a rep from the loser.
-All voters get a rep for voting.
 
Deadlines:
-Contestants have 48 hours to submit their entries.
-The contest ends a week after it starts.
 
Requirement:
Choice of the challenger. And the challenger has been a bit of a c*** and gone for make a pendulum fish..

 

Card A:

Forerunner of the Deep

WATER

✪✪✪

[Fish/Pendulum/Effect]
ATK/1500 DEF/1300

Scale 2
Once per turn, if you banish a Fish-Type monster(s): You can draw 1 card. If you Pendulum Summon a Fish-Type monster(s): You can reveal 1 Fish-Type monster from your Deck; send it to your Graveyard, or banish it.
If this card is banished from your field: You can add it to your hand. If you Summon this card: You can banish 1 WATER monster from your Deck; add 1 Fish-Type monster from your Deck to your hand. You can only use each of these two effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn.

 

Card B:

Grand Terrorking, the Salmon Emperor

WATER

✪✪✪✪✪

[Fish/Pendulum/Effect]
ATK/2400 DEF/1000

Scale 7

You can target 1 Fish-Type monster in your Graveyard: Special Summon it. If a Fish-Type monster you control is targeted by a card effect: You can negate that effect, then Special Summon 1 Fish-Type monster from your hand, Graveyard, or banished zone. You can only use each effect of "Grand Terrorking, the Salmon Emperor" once per turn.
You can Tribute this card: Special Summon up to 3 Level 3 or lower Fish-type monsters from your hand, Deck, Graveyard, or banished zone, but their effects are negated, also you cannot Special Summon monsters for the rest of this turn, except WATER monsters. You can only use this effect of "Grand Terrorking, the Salmon Emperor" once per turn.

[Dova]

Hi. Make a Fish Pend Monster.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

I accept you Dove. You now have 20 minutes to submit a card.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

Cards are up.

[Guest BGMCANN0N]

Interesting...

 

Card A seems alittle more weighted on the Generation Fish: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Generation_Fish(but could be used on other Fish-Types) whereas Card B is more weighted on general Fish-Type support both things that I can admire... Now to assess which one does their job better than the other one.

 

[spoiler=Card A]

Card A has a good scale (being 2) for the Generation Fish as most of their Levels are Level 3 it also reflects that same Level  shared with the rest of his brethren. Now off to it's effects:

• Pendulum Effect: Now this is where I kind of wish things were a little bit more flexible to support the Generation Fish: if only it could banish Aqua-Type, and Sea-Serpent-Type along with Fish-Type monsters it would be more applicable to them (for Wing Tortoise shenanigans and such), but I guess it isn't all that bad... As you can still apply it to a more general array of the Fish-Type monsters solely for the draw power and maybe even a chance to stun your opponent with their counter card known Oh F!sh which requires a banished Fish, Sea Serpent, or Aqua monster to use.

         As for the Pendulum Summoning effect, there are quite a few applications you can use this for. I will list a few though

         as I still got a lot to cover:  * You can dump Fishborg's stuff which are good follow up play cards. ** You can dump

         Friller Rabca or Needle Sunfish which can weaken your opponent's monsters. *** Or you can dump Nimble Angler to

         to Special Summon 2 Nimbles from your Deck.

• Monster Effect: The banishing from the field effect makes him good to pair with himself and maintain card advantage though Wingtortoise misses-timing because of how inflexible Wing is being a When/can effect so... I guess my hunch on the Gen Fish thing is not really correct... Oh well. Now when he is summoned this is where things get crazy good: He thins the deck by 2... And... He is a Pendulum Monster... Thank god Luster Pendulum got limited because this could cause very easily cause a +2 per turn scenario with him.

[spoiler=Card B] Card B has a pretty solid scale to go into pretty much most of the main deck Fish-Types in the cardpool, and his level slides underneath it so he can Pendulum Summon himself if you wanted to.

• Pendulum Effect: Special Summoning any Fish-Type from Grave is nice. Though it is a plus: the Fish-Type card pool is almost too lackluster until you add Superancient Deepsea King Coelicanth who can plus further...  With that in mind you probably could have given this part of the effect a Level restriction. And it isn't too hard too get Coelicanth into the grave either we got Genex Undine around still. On top of the Coelicanth dilemma you have a means to protect it from being targeted, and plus further if your opponent is dumb enough to do so. Though a good player wouldn't use a targeting effect on Fish-Type while this guy is out... It is a bit too much.
• Monster Effect: So... This guy also can get out a  +2 with his Monster Effect and he is a Pendulum... I get the Fish-Type are suffering, but good lord we don't need to make them stack numbers that much. It does have many applications, but I think this guy already does too much.

So after writing my Russian novel on both their effects I came to a conclusion that I prefer Card A over Card B because our Salmon friend is just too powerful with all the potential pluses. And Card A does some pretty cool things without being as strong as Card B.

 

So Card A gets my vote.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

1-0 A. cri i lose i'm getting no votes kys dove i made a fuck of it rip

[Yuuji Kazami]

I prefer Card B for the following reasons:

 

1. Fish-type monsters already lack support, minus the Sharks who summon Xyz version of themselves. Grand Terrorking is pretty balanced with only 2400 ATK, plus its effect is viable to bring out other Level 3 monsters is quite likeable. A Pendulum version of Big Whale, and is recyclable. This is beautiful with Needle Sunfish.

 

2.  Personal opinion wise, I believe that a fish-type deck should be based on swarming. Each type has its own specialty, and I felt that Forerunner of the Deep wasn't as viable in metting this standard as Terrorking. Fishes do need more support in getting themselves out.

 

3. Card grammar-wise, Terrorking is better. This part made me frown from Forerunner of the Deep: If this card is banished from your field: You can add it to your hand. If you Summon this card: You can banish 1 WATER monster from your Deck; add 1 Fish-Type monster from your Deck to your hand. You can only use each of these two effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn.

 

You can use each of these two effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn. Two effect? What?

Why not "You can only use each effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn?"

 

Although very minor, mainly reason 3 tipped the scale towards Card B in my opinion.

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

1-1 then unless young Dove takes issue. Absolute #scenes.

[Dova]

You can use each of these two effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn. Two effect? What?

Why not "You can only use each effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn?"

Probably meant to be "two effects", and most Pendulum monsters with multiple effects are written that way because, well, it actually has THREE effects: the two monster effects, and the one pendulum effect, and it was written to only limit the monster effects. Hard Once Per Turn writing on Pendulums are iffy.

 

And also, Konami did a thing with banifishes, and you didn't really mention that. Otherwise, good thing. Just would like to see that, and then fine.

[UltimateIRS]

Probably meant to be "two effects", and most Pendulum monsters with multiple effects are written that way because, well, it actually has THREE effects: the two monster effects, and the one pendulum effect, and it was written to only limit the monster effects. Hard Once Per Turn writing on Pendulums are iffy.

 

Looking at Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon, which words its OPT for its Pendulum Effects as [You can only use each Pendulum Effect of "Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon" once per turn.], the correct wording of a universal OPT for monster effects would be [You can only use each monster effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn.].

[Yuuji Kazami]

Looking at Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon, which words its OPT for its Pendulum Effects as [You can only use each Pendulum Effect of "Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon" once per turn.], the correct wording of a universal OPT for monster effects would be [You can only use each monster effect of "Forerunner of the Deep" once per turn.].

As UltimateKKK stated, it's universally correct to put it as "You can only use each effect of -Insert card name- once per turn". Terrorking won for me slightly just because of the grammatical reason. I'm a stickler for card grammar and spelling, although both cards were pretty equal in terms of everything else.

[Dova]

Would comment on the fact that he didn't say that, that he mentioned "use each monster effect", but either way the grammar is off, so fair enough. Still nothing on banifishes or "Generation Fish" as they are called on the Yu-Gi-Oh Wiki.

[Azuriena]

As UltimateKKK stated, it's universally correct to put it as "You can only use each effect of -Insert card name- once per turn". Terrorking won for me slightly just because of the grammatical reason. I'm a stickler for card grammar and spelling, although both cards were pretty equal in terms of everything else.

Card A's PSCT is better than Card B's. AFAIK, there is no precedent on hard OPTs for monster effects of Pendulum Monsters. The solution Card A used, "You can only use each of these two effect of ... once per turn", however awkward, is still better than Card B's method of using "You can only use each effect of ... once per turn" for the Pendulum Effects, by virtue of Card A's method being much clearer and raising no ruling questions. ("Do any of these 'each effects' of Card B apply to the monster effect?")

 

All of Card A's other PSCT "errors" are merely breaking of established conventions and do not affect gameplay. "If this card is banished from your field" is effectively the same as "If this card you control is banished", even though the latter is more correct; "send it to your Graveyard" would usually be "send it to the Graveyard", but it makes no functional difference in this case.

 

On the other hand, Card B doesn't make correct use of colons and semicolons. These indicate activation conditions, costs, targeting and effects. It is imperative to gameplay, but it was done incorrectly. The Pendulum Effect that negates an effect appears to be a Trigger Effect when it should be a Quick Effect, because it is badly written. Also, it mentions the "banished zone", which does not exist (this is a minor mistake much like Card A's).

 

If Card B only won your vote solely because of the grammar reason, you should vote for either Card A (which has superior PSCT) or Card C instead.

[Yuuji Kazami]

Card A's PSCT is better than Card B's. AFAIK, there is no precedent on hard OPTs for monster effects of Pendulum Monsters. The solution Card A used, "You can only use each of these two effect of ... once per turn", however awkward, is still better than Card B's method of using "You can only use each effect of ... once per turn" for the Pendulum Effects, by virtue of Card A's method being much clearer and raising no ruling questions. ("Do any of these 'each effects' of Card B apply to the monster effect?")

 

All of Card A's other PSCT "errors" are merely breaking of established conventions and do not affect gameplay. "If this card is banished from your field" is effectively the same as "If this card you control is banished", even though the latter is more correct; "send it to your Graveyard" would usually be "send it to the Graveyard", but it makes no functional difference in this case.

 

On the other hand, Card B doesn't make correct use of colons and semicolons. These indicate activation conditions, costs, targeting and effects. It is imperative to gameplay, but it was done incorrectly. The Pendulum Effect that Special Summons a monster appears to be a Trigger Effect when it should be a Quick Effect, because it is badly written. Also, it mentions the "banished zone", which does not exist (this is a minor mistake much like Card A's).

 

If Card B only won your vote solely because of the grammar reason, you should vote for either Card A (which has superior PSCT) or Card C instead.

Oh Geez, I've missed that completely! D=

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven't been playing too much attention to the usage of cost and effect, as obvious as they were. (Curse me for not wearing glasses when I was reading these, ugh).

 

Yeah, in that case, the minor mistake I've noticed beforehand on Card A is completely nulled out by the multiple errors in Card B. I've noticed the mistake on the incorrect use of Banished in Card B during my first look, but it was more minor in the sense that it was an uncommon mistake.

 

Am I allowed to take my vote back? If I am, I'll move my vote to Card A. 

[Dova]

Well, you actually are allowed to before the deadline. but because I declined your vote previously, Enguin now has a right to as well if he wants.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

* points at the note about Striker or my intervention on votes in the Leaderboard if necessary *
 
Anyway, card A is right at home with Banisharks/Generation Fish (whatever you're inclined to call them) for Rank 3 spam and whatever, but also goes well with general fishes if you banish them (for draw power). As Egitet mentioned, card might've been better if the P-effect was extended to the other stuff that comprise Generation Fish (and would help them further in the long run), but either way, it's still support for Fishes, which they certainly need right now. Search power is definitely appreciated either way (and in the case of said Deck), they should have ways to recover the banished stuff otherwise.
 
B's Pendulum effect is somewhat pushing it. While I'm fine with it being able to SS stuff, I don't think you should also be given access to a SS for negating something that targets Fishes (though aside from a few big ones like Coelacanth or something, I suppose it isn't as bad). Monster-effect-wise, it still fuels Rank 3 spam (effect is pretty much the same as Big Whale if anyone noticed, bar for it being repeatable due to its status as a Pendulum). Much like card A, Banisharks would like this card since it allows them to SS themselves (for reference, banished zone isn't an official term [yet]; you just say "1 of your banished (stuff)" for card effects, though I know what it's trying to say otherwise).

 

-----

Taking OCG aside (both of you have mistakes, but not the kind that alter how the cards function), I'm voting for A because it isn't as crazy.

 

Don't get me wrong; B is nice, but couple in Coelacanth (pardon the spelling if I wrote it wrong) and the pluses from the targeting negation/SSing, it's a bit much. Had it not SS'd a monster or contained a Level restriction on what you could summon (although most of the time, it is Level 4 and under), I would've likely gone for it. (Monster effect is fine).

[Dova]

Well, with all those changes, its A 3-0 B, unless Enguin has an objection?

[Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin]

RIP. I am now banished from the 1v1 realm.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

RIP. I am now banished from the 1v1 realm.

I decree you stay. And crap...