Are Pendulum Summons Over Powered?

[Arctic55]

Here is a great video explaining Pendulum Summons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs08XuC62LU

 

In my opinion, this game is getting just too fast.  The long term stratagy that got me into this game (original TV series) seems to be gone.  I mean, raise your hand if you've gotten murdered in one turn by some super crazy fast effect spamming deck.  *raises hand*

 

 

Anyways, lets start the debate.  Are Pendulum Summons over powered and damaging the game?

[Peridank]

Far from it... Pends are a deck that are only good using the original 3 monsters (or some archetype) ... MST and dark bribes are good enough to take them out... And to play them... Means you only want to attempt a abuse... I have yet to see a pro use them... A pro doesn't need them. If you got your deck ready for backrow like you should this format... You'll be fine...

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

You're a bit out of date with the tutorial, considering majority of us know how the mechanic works from Arc-V and OCG things.

 

But yes, Pendulums are making the game quicker than what a lot of older players are used to.

 

TBH, the only Deck that I've really had problems with involving Pendulums is probably Qliphorts or something [then again, a lot of people here seem to hate them].

That's really the only Deck that I know is causing a lot of problems; probably other ones that are more prevalent (Performapals/Entermate, DDs; yeah that's about all I remember right now)

 

Then again, I'm using Yousenjuus lately for YGOPro reasons; they Pendulum quite a bit; though not nearly to same extent (so I can't really hate the mechanic if I myself use it also). You do realize that the game's been getting quicker with every generation with the new card types, right?

 

 

Also remember that because Pendulum Monsters are Spell Cards, any cards used for clearing backrow also work here.

[Arctic55]

The problem with wiping out the pendulum with spell targeting cards, is, if they bring out more pendulum, then they can resummon the ones you wiped ealier and XYZ or synchro summon an eight or more star monster.  I just think their ability to litterly crowed the field with monsters and merge for higher stars is a little too much.

[Peridank]

Can't pend with no pends... Stop them from gaining the pends... They probably won't top deck bout halve of them... Although... It is possible...

[Blake]

Far from it... Pends are a deck that are only good using the original 3 monsters (or some archetype) ... MST and dark bribes are good enough to take them out... And to play them... Means you only want to attempt a abuse... I have yet to see a pro use them... A pro doesn't need them. If you got your deck ready for backrow like you should this format... You'll be fine...

this is a shit post by all means

 

Counters =/= not overpowered

 

The mechanic as a whole is designed in a way that is completely "overpowered" and disturbing. These ways to prevent pendulum summoning do not make it less powerful by any means, when most setups will not result in a neg. Nay, they will plus out the ass.

 

It is both a spam mechanic and an infinite resource mechanic, both of which are not fair design.

 

And Qliphorts are a top deck, so "yet to see a pro" point is completely ignorant.

 

That said, there's no real discussion here. Everyone worth their stock knows this, and it should go without saying.

[The Warden]

Qliphorts are really the only ones who can efficiently abuse the mechanic, as they are absurdly powerful cards and all of them are Pendulums. Plus their search power. Pendulums are weak due to the sheer amount of cards needed to pull it off; but Qliphorts subvert that by searching out the yin-yang and Pendulumining stupid ass bosses. 

 

Pendulums are balanced if they take part as a dual-strategy, and aren't all the deck is about. Yosenju are a good example of that, as they don't need Pendulum, but are happy to use it if the opportunity arises.

[Blake]

But the yosenju pendulums suck

Like Daibak is a decent boss, but it can be NSd for some good payoff, and the blue pillar has a decent effect, but the red one is ass.

Weasels x5 are better than the pendulum build

The mechanic as a whole is go hard or go home, and that is not proper game design in the least.

[The Warden]

Pretty much. Qliphorts go hard, and Performapals go home. I just find the balance is when Pendulums are more of an afterthought in the deck; as they don't take center stage, but can still do things regardless. But there's still early days for Pendulum, so we might as well see what the future holds until the gimmick is tired, then we can pass final judgements.

[Peridank]

I believe I came across wrong... Yes the deck has many unfair advantages... But the setup is hard enough... If you extend its difficulty... Then it should make facing them devastatingly easier...

[Marco Polo]

Pendulums are usually quite slow. Qliphorths are the only ones that can actually abuse the mechanic but that's because they were designed as an OP broken power creep archetype.
What really made the game too fast are the synchros.
With level eater, dandy, that sp token soldier and junk synchron - synchroing became the most annoying yugioh sport I've ever seen. Synchron decks are literally there to piss the opponent off and land on some crazy OP synchros.

[Darj]

Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks they are busted.

And really, things can get worse. I mean, right now Qlips are rampaging on the meta even with their "cannot Special Summon non-archetype monsters" clause. Now imagine a Pendulum archetype without such clause, or with Pendulums Tuners; or worse, both. I wouldn't be surprised if the powercreep took an step further and we got archetypes like that in the future.

[Trebuchet MS]

The only feature that I was concerned over is the fact that you can summon a bunch of monsters in a single step.

 

But then again, it only tends to be most noticeable when the entire monster base is Pendulum Monsters with a consistent Level and Scale range. Qliphorts tuck right into that criteria, Performapals flop a bit with their Levels and Scales being a bit too varied for comfort.

[asterr259]

I don't think Pendulums are broken. Just Qliphorts. The mechanic is slow to pull of, and non-Pendulum Archetype decks don't need them. Konami seems like they're playing it safe and are just spreading out the Performapals and not making it too strong, Qliphorts are just a ridiculous example of what Pendulums should be. I immediately saw the potential it had to fight Shaddolls among other things when they came out, but now I feel they did too much. And Yosenjuu I feel are pretty balanced. You won't find yourself Pendulum Summoning with DDs too much.

[Blake]

I don't think Pendulums are broken. Just Qliphorts. The mechanic is slow to pull of, and non-Pendulum Archetype decks don't need them. Konami seems like they're playing it safe and are just spreading out the Performapals and not making it too strong, Qliphorts are just a ridiculous example of what Pendulums should be. I immediately saw the potential it had to fight Shaddolls among other things when they came out, but now I feel they did too much. And Yosenjuu I feel are pretty balanced. You won't find yourself Pendulum Summoning with DDs too much.

... Yes you will @DD

Even out the gate, the deck pendulumed more than Synchro'd, and about equal to Fusion on a hand-by-hand basis.

The weakest part of the deck is Night Howling, and you do xyz commonly, so you did Pendulum a bit as it led to said Xyz.

With Abyss Ragnarok, it's even more common to pendulum summon.

[Toffee.]

With regards to Qliphs, lets put things into perspective....
Unless you can actually, efficiently, set of Scales, and ones that actually do shit and not just rot on your field after you lolpendulumsummon with them, then Pendulums at there base are mediocre.
HOWEVER...
Given the fact that Pendulum Monsters can literally be played over and over again because they go back to the Extra Deck if you go to kill them/tribute/use as [x]/etc, you effectively have an unlimited source of monsters that you can pull out of your ass at any given moment, and can just grow and grow as the game drones on.
My statement about the Scales remains true, since You can't randomly toss them into any deck; I'M LOOKING AT YOU, PEOPLE WHO PLAY PENDULUM-SCRAPS.
But given the fact Archetypes like Qliphs exist that utterly whore the mechanic to no honest end, it becomes a massive issue in and of itself and just showcases all the bad qualities of the mechanic as a whole, and just shows that Konami has there head up there ass as usual.
Compare them to something like DDs/Yosenju who, despite having the mechanic as a possible play, don't fully depend on it, and only have a small number of monsters that are Pendulums, and as such, can't fully spam the the field as much as Qliphs do. This is honestly how Pendulums should be(IMO); Just an "optional" play, and not the main fucking thing.
'Course, there is also the issue of the Pendulum Monster effects being stupid or not, but that's another issue all by itself.

[asterr259]

With regards to Qliphs, lets put things into perspective....
Unless you can actually, efficiently, set of Scales, and ones that actually do s*** and not just rot on your field after you lolpendulumsummon with them, then Pendulums at there base are mediocre.
HOWEVER...
Given the fact that Pendulum Monsters can literally be played over and over again because they go back to the Extra Deck if you go to kill them/tribute/use as [x]/etc, you effectively have an unlimited source of monsters that you can pull out of your ass at any given moment, and can just grow and grow as the game drones on.
My statement about the Scales remains true, since You can't randomly toss them into any deck; I'M LOOKING AT YOU, PEOPLE WHO PLAY PENDULUM-SCRAPS.
But given the fact Archetypes like Qliphs exist that utterly whore the mechanic to no honest end, it becomes a massive issue in and of itself and just showcases all the bad qualities of the mechanic as a whole, and just shows that Konami has there head up there ass as usual.
Compare them to something like DDs/Yosenju who, despite having the mechanic as a possible play, don't fully depend on it, and only have a small number of monsters that are Pendulums, and as such, can't fully spam the the field as much as Qliphs do. This is honestly how Pendulums should be(IMO); Just an "optional" play, and not the main f***ing thing.
'Course, there is also the issue of the Pendulum Monster effects being stupid or not, but that's another issue all by itself.

Pretty much what I tried to say, but better.

 

Yosenjuu and DDs have plays outside of just pendulum summoning. Though I prefer pendulum in Yosenjuu, don't have to. You can make a build without it.

[Toffee.]

Pretty much what I tried to say, but better.

Thing is... If you compare Pendulum Summons to other lolextradeck monsters...
Fusions; LOLOLOLOLOLOL; Limited to up to 15 monsters.
Synchros need a specific monster, and then some slight math, and even then, can only make a specific level/name/etc monster; Limited to up to 15 monsters.
Xyzs are just herpderp any 2 level 4s = Whole Extra Deck; Limited to up to 15 monsters.
Pendulums need you to play along with some stupid gimmick, and fuck you if you aren't using Qliphs; Extra Deck second deck second graveyard "resource" is as big as you fucking want.

[Lonk]

Going to put this up for gits and shiggles:  http://gizoogle.net/xfer.php?link=http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/325977-are-pendulum-summons-over-powered/&sa=U&ei=s2V-VOGRKpT1aojsgvAO&ved=0CBQQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGSRNPTTvHDtNZkkA_OYFe8liD4MA

 

Onto the related topic, the mechanic is stupid because there is no possible middle ground when it comes to balance.  It is either too weak because it eats away at too many resources and time to achieve or it is too strong because it gathers infinite resources in Decks that can easily gather them up very quickly.

[iCherries]

I honestly only think Pendulums are stupid for the fact that you can Pendulum Summon from Extra Deck. There's some cases where the Pendulum Monsters are mediocre or decks would rather play without them (like Weasels). Along with possibly having terrible scale ratios, Pendulums had their drawbacks by just having meh effects. Then comes the part where no matter what happens to them (unless not destroyed), they can be infinite walls, infinite supply squad fuel (snorts), infinite fusion/ritual material... and in Qliphoth's case: infinite tribute fodder. Or Odd-Eyes' case a search for any of the good Pendulums and then being dropped as a 2500 doubled damage beater.

It wouldn't even be so bad if Pendulum's only selling point was the fact that it's stupidly abusable. If it wasn't, giving them better Pendulum effects would be more justified. Instead, you get to search with Crystal Vanguard every turn and the like.
 

My statement about the Scales remains true, since You can't randomly toss them into any deck; I'M LOOKING AT YOU, PEOPLE WHO PLAY PENDULUM-SCRAPS.

 
same for people who made pendulum crystals
... and then crystal pendulum monsters got printed
 

Onto the related topic, the mechanic is stupid because there is no possible middle ground when it comes to balance.  It is either too weak because it eats away at too many resources and time to achieve or it is too strong because it gathers infinite resources in Decks that can easily gather them up very quickly.

It's either infinite resource or an extremely shitty Ultimate Offering if the infinite resource part is taken away.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

I guess I'll be the one to point out that Pendulum Gadgets were the initial fear when the pendulum summon craze first started but then people realized the deck was horribly inconsistent.

[Toffee.]

same for people who made pendulum crystals
... and then crystal pendulum monsters got printed

To be fair... Crystal Guardian/Vanguard actually do things.
And Rainbow Dragon is still useless.

[Sleepy]

One thing everyone should agree on here is that Pendulums aren't a balanced mechanic.

I'm not talking about their current impact or cardpool right now, just the mechanic by itself.

 

At first it can be situational if you run a Deck like Yuya, where most of the Scales are terrible (all of them being random low-ish numbers and the Main Deck monsters' Levels also being all over the place). However, the "situational" point early game is not a flaw of the mechanic. Remember that Konami is currently giving support for all forms of Summon, and I'd even say it is focusing a little more on Fusions than anything else. If Konami was preparing a Pendulum-focused generation exclusively, it'd be pretty easy to design more dedicated decks, much like how a Rank 4 Xyz-oriented Deck won't have many monsters of Levels other than 4, if any.

 

The obvious route the game could go to make them immediately consistent from the get go is to focus on a certain Level(s) and make the Scales as narrow as possible in a way that would always be able to Pendulum Summon anything you draw into. Yes it'd overlap with how Xyz Decks are made, to a degree, but Xyz is pretty much the enemy mechanic of this by ending their recycling, so that'd be the trade off.

 

 

Also they aren't exactly inferior cards to the other mechanics, at least inherently. Think about how mechanics become much easier on costs each generation:

 

-Ritual: You need to draw into everything, enabler card (Ritual Spell) + Ritual Monster + materials. This results in a pretty heavy investment.

-Fusion: You need to draw into enabler card (fusioning Spell) + materials, but the Fusion Monster itself is safely available without bothering your deck.

-Synchro: You need to draw into materials, Though the enabler (Tuner) is already built in into the materials, and the Synchro Monster is benefited from the Extra Deck, just like Fusions.

-Xyz: There's no more enabler. Have fun with this boost in consistency.

 

Then we have Pendulums. Yes all pieces are main deck cards, but both the materials AND the Pendulum Summoned monster(s) can be enablers AND dub as regular Main Deck cards that still can do stuff when not used that way. What is more, they can also dub as both monsters and non-monsters. If anything, these cards have much more sheer potential to be not-situational-at-all, than other cards.

 

Oh, and the same "materials/enablers" will keep helping you Summon further cards for the rest of the game and will keep implementing effects, unless your opponent specifically gets rid of them. If you thought that Xyzs were iffy because materials already used up for their Summon could have a second purpose built-in, Pendulums took it one step ahead.

 

 

Well now, what is the biggest issue with the mechanic? They are designed to either overwhelm or uderperform.

Yes impact shows how in this metagame with tons of non-Pendulums mixed with Pendulums and Pendulums not being the main focus of the game, and older archetypes from the Synchro/Xyz eras that already had ways to Special Summon their stuff not really needing Pendulums, and most of these not really supporting Pendulums, all shows how Pendulum users that are not Qliphs have cold and slow starts with very little swarm.

 

But if you think about it this way, Pendulums past the first few turns are just storing up monsters, so after a certain point it'll be "fill up my field" each turn. This only results in 3 possible situations:

-1] You can't get rid of their setting up scales and are overwhelmed quickly.

-2] You can get rid of their setting up scales, so their mechanic stays dead and useless (seriously there's no mid-point here).

-3] You also were running a deck that stupidly floats and swarms back everything, meaning both know what each other can keep bringing back up. Then the game will play out in a not so-overwhelming way, unless you both still resort to aiming for scenarios 1 or 2 regardless.

 

 

 

 

It is personally the first mechanic that I inherently dislike because of the above reasons. I've been trying to see the good in it though, which it can have great potential overall if they got rid of the stupid swarming theme in exchange for traits that didn't make them auto-lose to extreme S/T hate. If done that way, the strategy late game wouldn't be "I've collected so many that I can get +5 per turn no problem", but "which one would be better for this situation?"

 

An example of something that could make up for it, would be certain unlockable effects when Pendulum Summoned, for example (better implemented than what we got from the crappy Starter Deck though). 

[goddamnit names are a pain]

And Rainbow Dragon is still useless.

STILL FABULOUS

I remember when I actually summoned RN using Rainbow Dragon. Heh.

​Anyway…it's been said, but I agree- the extra deck mechanic and summoning (from the extra deck) are quite stupid.

The concept would actually be ok, otherwise.

And no, it's not just Qlips.

[Blake]

I guess I'll be the one to point out that Pendulum Gadgets were the initial fear when the pendulum summon craze first started but then people realized the deck was horribly inconsistent.

No one with half an idea of the game ever feared pendulum gadgets. It is a stupid concept, but was never feared.