[LEADERBOARD] FINISHED. Silent Luminus vs Zextra

[Silent Luminus]

Well, as promised before, here's our 1v1 Zextra. Good luck to you.

 

Rules

- The first card to reach 3 votes wins; or the one with the most votes by the end of Monday, June 10.

- Votes must be explained reasonably.

 

Requirements

- Make a rank 4 xyz monster

 

Prize:

1 like and of course a point on the leaderboard.

 

(Sorry, spoilers are off today)

My Card:

 

Effect:

3 Level 4 monsters

During the turn this card is Xyz Summoned, this card can attack all monsters your opponent controls once each. When this card destroys a monster by battle: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; increase this card's ATK by 500 and inflict damage to your opponent equal to the Level or Rank of the destroyed monster x400.

 

Zextra's card

 

Effect:

2 Level 4 monsters

During the End Phase of a turn when 2 or more Level 4 monsters you control are destroyed, you can Xyz Summon this card from your Extra Deck using 2 of the destroyed monsters as Xyz Material. Once per turn, if this card was Summoned by its own effect: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; declare 1 Attribute. Banish all face-up monsters on the field with the declared Attribute until your opponent’s next End Phase.

[Zextra]

Good Luck to you as well.

[Zextra]

Bump for votes? :o

[Daigusto Sphreez]

Slayer Goliath

 

This guy is basically a massive beatstick with some heavy burning abilities. I'm not exactly an expert on xyz's, but it only took brief research to find out that 3000 ATK for a rank 4 xyz is huge even without its powerful effects. Not only is this card able to remove opposition easily to begin with, but it gets easier with each monster it kills, with potential for 4500 ATK and a ton of burn in the process. Nothing wrong with the effects themselves, but they are hideously overpowered even with 3 tributes. 

 

 

Radiance Altera

 

The summoning of this card is slightly circumstantial but is easy to get out in the right situations. Its effect is again, circumstantial, only good against monotype decks. However in the realm of balance, this card strikes a far better medium. 

 

So Zextra must get my vote!

 

 

Edit: As a side note to Luminous, sorry if my view on your card isn't the common one. I'm just voicing my opinion, it might be wrong. But hey, someone has to vote. 

[Zextra]

Thanks for your vote. 1-0

[Zazubat]

I dislike the first card a lot. The fact that it got 3000 is powerful already, but also that it can deal upwards to 4800 damage if battling a Level/Rank 12, and since it can destroy all monsters, OTKs become quite easy to achieve. Card B has a confusing Summoning effect. I assume that the cards must still be in the Graveyard/Banished for this to work, but it isn't all that clear. The OCG could use some work as well, it's badly set up, and I don't really like that it got 2500, but since that it's basically only that if you choose to Summon it normally, then it's not better than Utopia, so that's fine. The effect itself is alright, the fact that it can keep them in that loop can be powerful a bit, but since it can only have 2 mats, I suppose that's alright.

 

Card B gets my vote.

[Zextra]

Thanks for the vote, Zazu. 2-0

And as far as I undersdtand, it doesn't matter where the destroyed monsters are - as long as they're not in your hand or Deck it would work.

And the OCG doesn't seem to have any issues the way it is now - it's honestly much clearer and more concise now than it would be using "correct OCG" from a card that works in a similar way, which would be like the following: "If you controlled at least 2 Level 4 monsters at the start of the turn and at least 2 of those monsters were destroyed this turn, you can Xyz Summon this card from your Extra Deck".

[Zazubat]

Thanks for the vote, Zazu. 2-0

And as far as I undersdtand, it doesn't matter where the destroyed monsters are - as long as they're not in your hand or Deck it would work.

And the OCG doesn't seem to have any issues the way it is now - it's honestly much clearer and more concise now than it would be using "correct OCG" from a card that works in a similar way, which would be like the following: "If you controlled at least 2 Level 4 monsters at the start of the turn and at least 2 of those monsters were destroyed this turn, you can Xyz Summon this card from your Extra Deck".

It's not really that I have a problem with (even though the last comma should have been a colon, since you cannot Xyz Summon like your normally would during your Main Phase during the End Phase), it's the other effect. Here's the fix that works better:

 

Once per turn, if this card was Summoned by its own effect: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to declare 1 Attribute; banish all face-up monsters on the field with the declared Attribute until your opponent’s next End Phase.

[Zextra]

Oh, I misunderstood - my bad. Though I meant for it to work the way it is - the cost for detaching is to declare the Attribute. The Attribute-specific banishing doesn't happen as a result of the detaching, but as a result of the declaration.

Though it I were to use your wording, it would actually be:
"You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card and declare 1 Attribute; banish all face-up monsters on the field with the declared Attribute until your opponent’s next End Phase."
Since the word "to" designates a cost, which can only be expressed by a semicolon :p

[Zazubat]

Oh, I misunderstood - my bad. Though I meant for it to work the way it is - the cost for detaching is to declare the Attribute. The Attribute-specific banishing doesn't happen as a result of the detaching, but as a result of the declaration.

Though it I were to use your wording, it would actually be:
"You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card and declare 1 Attribute; banish all face-up monsters on the field with the declared Attribute until your opponent’s next End Phase."
Since the word "to" designates a cost, which can only be expressed by a semicolon :P

But, that's still how it works with my wording. Your "cost" is to detach and declare and Attribute. The way you first wrote it would make it so the effect would be to declare an Attribute, which sounds silly. Also, what you said about "to" is to designate a cost, is not true at all. Some cards still use to, as you cannot have multiple semi-colons. Look at something like Numer 16: Shock Master. It's says "Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to declare 1 card type". While you can still use "and", the way you first wrote it would make my change correct.

[Zextra]

The cost is the detaching of the Xyz Material. The effect is the Attribute declaration. Once the declaration effect resolves, the next banishing effect takes place. That's pretty much all there is to it.

In Shock Master's case, the cost is done in two parts - to detach AND declare, while the effect is to nullify. That's why I can't change it to your wording, since the effect resolves differently.

I appreciate your suggestion, though.

[Zazubat]

I don't quite think I understand. When does the banishing take place? Normally post PSTC writes in four ways when talking about multiple things happening at the same resolution, but the way you word it is pretty weird, and on top of that, you also declare an Attribute as the effect (not saying you cannot, but doing it there just sounds weird, and honestly doesn't change the effect one bit, since I hardly doubt there're any cards which can respond to that). Do you mean it to be an "and if you do" effect, in which case, if you declare an Attribute successfully, you also banish? Do you wish for it to be an "also" effect, in which case it doesn't matter if you can't declare an Attribute, as it will still banish? (most likely not, as in this case they're more tied together). Do you wish for it to be and "and" effect, in which case you NEED to do both to do anything? Or do you wish for it to happen as the last thing, in which case "then" would be used, as when you do that, declaring an Attribute is no longer the last thing, but banishing is? (like how you can't activate Torrential Tribute to cards like Goblindbergh's effect) The way you have worded it makes it hard for me to know your intention of this, and while in this case it doens't matter, because as I said, there's no card I know of that responds to declaring an Attribute, but in other cases it would matter, and that is something I wish for you to understand, unless there's something I am missing with your intentions with this card, in which case, could you describe EXACTLY how it works for me? The only reason I could see why you would want to declare it at resolution, would be so your opponent would not know if they should respond properly the the Attribute of the monsters to be banished, which is both cheap, but also weird, since your opponent would most likely always want to not have their monsters banished, and therefor respond regardless.

[Zextra]

This really isn't the place to be discussing this, but since we've come this far, it doesn't really matter. I'm sure you understand what the card is designed to do, so I don't think this matter is really that important.

 

Nevertheless, if I must specify, it is as follows:

• Altera detaches an Xyz Material = Cost

• The detaching cost allows for the declaration of the Attribute to occur. This effect (the declaration) resolves, where your opponent can then respond to if they wish to do so.

• Once play is passed back to you, the banishing effect occurs.

 

Though again, it really doesn't matter which way I word the effect, since none of them are technically "wrong", and the end result is still the same.

[Zazubat]

This really isn't the place to be discussing this, but since we've come this far, it doesn't really matter. I'm sure you understand what the card is designed to do, so I don't think this matter is really that important.

 

Nevertheless, if I must specify, it is as follows:

• Altera detaches an Xyz Material = Cost

• The detaching cost allows for the declaration of the Attribute to occur. This effect (the declaration) resolves, where your opponent can then respond to if they wish to do so.

• Once play is passed back to you, the banishing effect occurs.

 

Though again, it really doesn't matter which way I word the effect, since none of them are technically "wrong", and the end result is still the same.

Wait wait, you think your opponent can activate effects when the Attribute declaration has ended? No, how the heck do you even think this works? What you're saying here is that your intention is to break the rules of chains, by allowing your opponent to add another chain link when your chain that declares something resolves. That doesn't happen. Your opponent's chance to respond is right before the semi-colon (or colon if no cost/targeting) and that's that. What you're saying is that your opponent, after you have declared an Attribute has a chance to respond before you banish? That's what I'm gathering from this. Also, the end result is not the same, as the way you have presented it makes no sense at all.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Okay, take that to PM. No need to inflate a thread with posts that have little to do with voting in a 1v1.

[Zazubat]

Okay, take that to PM. No need to inflate a thread with posts that have little to do with voting in a 1v1.

I'm sorry, but my vote could easily sway in the other direction due to this, and this is why I am keeping it here. If a mod chooses to say as such, I will, but for now, it's important, and therefor stays here.

[Zextra]

*sigh*

Sorry, what I said in my last post was not what I had in mind. Nevertheless, this has gone on long enough, so I'll just give you some examples of what I mean:

 

Gandora, the Dragon of Destruction

Cannot be Special Summoned. You can pay half your Life Points; destroy all other cards on the field, and if you do, banish them. This card gains 300 ATK for each card destroyed this way. During the End Phase of the turn this card was Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard.

 

Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned by removing from play 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster in your Graveyard. You can pay 1000 Life Points to send all cards in both players' hands and on the field to the Graveyard. Inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each card that is sent to the Graveyard by this effect.

 

Or in terms of new OCG:

Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must first be Special Summoned (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard. You can pay 1000 Life Points; send all cards in both players' hands and on the field to the Graveyard. Inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each card that is sent to the Graveyard by this effect.

 

Anyways, please vote!

[Silent Luminus]

Well, actually, Zextra, the time limit of this contest has already passed, so with that said, this match is yours. Good game :p

[Zextra]

Good game, Silent. Let's go again sometime.

[Zazubat]

*sigh*

Sorry, what I said in my last post was not what I had in mind. Nevertheless, this has gone on long enough, so I'll just give you some examples of what I mean:

 

Gandora, the Dragon of Destruction

Cannot be Special Summoned. You can pay half your Life Points; destroy all other cards on the field, and if you do, banish them. This card gains 300 ATK for each card destroyed this way. During the End Phase of the turn this card was Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard.

 

Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned by removing from play 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster in your Graveyard. You can pay 1000 Life Points to send all cards in both players' hands and on the field to the Graveyard. Inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each card that is sent to the Graveyard by this effect.

 

Or in terms of new OCG:

Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must first be Special Summoned (from your hand) by banishing 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster from your Graveyard. You can pay 1000 Life Points; send all cards in both players' hands and on the field to the Graveyard. Inflict 300 damage to your opponent for each card that is sent to the Graveyard by this effect.

 

Anyways, please vote!

Gandora's effect is a Continuous effect, which is applied after resolving the effect. Your opponent cannot activate effects in response to that. Also, from the look of things, according to the wikia, Chaos' effect is an Ignition effect, and only 1 effect, so it should resolve in probably "then". I havn't been able to find any rulings that say if it will miss the timing, so I cannot be use about your fix on that one. Anyway, enough of this, let's just leave it at this.