bad judges piss me off, also, gorz/oppression questions

[Tronta]

/vent

i just lost a tournament because of bad judge rulings in two instances.

cost me two separate matches. disgusting.

one of those pig-headed guys who wont hear opposing arguments, and believes his word is god.

 

first ruling:

this one i was unsure about, but:

he believed that oppression cant chain to crystal abundance. cost me the game and the match.

the real ruling? it can stop the special summons, but i believe (the wording was vague) all cards are still sent to the grave. i still would have won.

 

second ruling:

he didnt understand that you cant destroy something thats already dead.

oppressed nephthys special summoning itself.

he believed that since oppression says destroy, i would have to oppress nephthys every funking turn. cost me about 32k to keep that bastard down, and cost me the duel.

the real ruling, as i very well knew already: nephthys' effect activates in the grave. thus, when oppression negates it, it stays there, but is not destroyed, as it is already dead. it cannot try again next turn >.>

 

/end vent

 

sigh, does anyone know the rulings on the interplay between gorz and oppression (or gorz and solemn/black horn/horn)? the wikia is a bit unhelpful.

it didnt come up in the tourny, but id still like to know my card effects if im going to run said cards.

 

i heard that oppression cannot stop gorz, but it can stop the token, and to me, that doesnt make any sense. nothing but oppression could chain to the token (as solemn or horns would miss the timing), and if oppression neg'd it, it would technically kill gorz, because hes the one making the token.

 

furthermore, im a bit murky as to the structure of the duel in the damage step after taking damage.

i know prior to the damage its one chain, where only counter traps, null and void, and then quick effects and spell speed 2's that pertain specifically to attack and defense can take place, but gorz occurs after you take damage, so im uncertain as to how that plays out.

 

such an obnoxious card, i think they limited just so theyd have to explain his effects a lot less.

[OrangePeel]

I believe it can stop Gorz before it hit the field and there for stop the token has well. Everyone knows that Royal Oppression stops Special Summons, but many people skips the part where it also stops an effect that special summons. Yeah you should have won those games.

[iAmNateXero]

You can oppress Abundance.

 

Oppression VS Chicken. You will have to negate it over and over again to stop it from special summoning. The reason is Oppression destroys the card, and Chicken, already in the grave, does not have to be sent to the grave... only destroyed. Oppression can not stop any part of Gorz. Everything happens during the damage step.

[Tronta]

please outline the damage step then, as his effect activates after the damage part of the damage step, so my understanding in that region gets a little murky.

 

also, no.

chickens effect activates in the graveyard. oppression negs it. it is not destroyed because it is already in the graveyard and cannot be destroyed. thus its effect cannot activate again.

regardless of what oppression says when it claims "negate and destroy", it cannot technically destroy an already destroyed monster, so it simply negates it.

[iAmNateXero]

please outline the damage step then' date=' as his effect activates after the damage part of the damage step, so my understanding in that region gets a little murky.

 

also, no.

chickens effect activates in the graveyard. oppression negs it.

it is not destroyed because it is already in the graveyard

and cannot be destroyed. thus its effect cannot activate again.

regardless of what oppression says when it claims "negate and destroy", it cannot technically destroy an already destroyed monster, so it simply negates it.

 

Yes because Chicken wont be Special summoned from the Graveyard if it was destroyed by CCV in the hand. Same with Grandmaster... It won't jump back to the hand. The place where chicken is destroyed is irrelevant, all it has to do is be destroyed and it special summons itself.

 

or did you not read the following...

if this card is destroyed by a card effect' date=' Special Summon this card from the Graveyard during your next Standby Phase.[/quote']

[That Fat Guy]

http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/yugioh/en/gameplay/faqs/cardfaqs/default.aspx?first=SACRED%20PHOENIX%20OF%20NEPHTHY&last=SACRED%20PHOENIX%20OF%20NEPHTHYS

 

You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. Because this effect activates in the Graveyard, and is being negated while "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is in the Graveyard, "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is never Special Summoned (so the card is never moved from the Graveyard) and is never destroyed. Because it is not destroyed, its effect to Special Summon itself does not activate again.

 

I assume oppression works the same way... I can't see something being destroyed if it's already in the graveyard =/

[iAmNateXero]

http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/yugioh/en/gameplay/faqs/cardfaqs/default.aspx?first=SACRED%20PHOENIX%20OF%20NEPHTHY&last=SACRED%20PHOENIX%20OF%20NEPHTHYS

 

You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. Because this effect activates in the Graveyard' date=' and is being negated while "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is in the Graveyard, "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is never Special Summoned (so the card is never moved from the Graveyard) and is never destroyed. Because it is not destroyed, its effect to Special Summon itself does not activate again.[/quote']

 

I assume oppression works the same way... I can't see something being destroyed if it's already in the graveyard =/

 

Fine, Ill bite, But that Ruling is explained wrong. Notice the following sentence and how its typed.

You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect.

This is past tense, meaning that the monster has already Hit the field, and you are actually activating to the "Destroy" effect of Chicken. With that being said it Is destroyed on the field, and will Jump back next standby phase. However, if that ruling is from Curtis, than I guess it will have to do. Either way, Thats not how its read, and destroying is Destroying, even if it is in the graveyard.

 

And to add, If it is not being destroyed in the graveyard, Why are you allowed to Stardust Oppression Vs PSZ. Assuming PSZ is activating in the graveyard? Thats a BS ruling and If I were head judge, Id fix that.

[CrabHelmet]

This is past tense' date='

[/quote']

 

No, it isn't. It's the present tense with passive voice.

 

Your argument is invalid.

[Sleepy]

I get how sacred phoenix can be special summoned when destroyed, but... why is "removed from play" different and doesn't let phoenix resurect?

 

said this... use "bottomless trap hole" ....

[iAmNateXero]

This is past tense' date='

[/quote']

 

No, it isn't. It's the present tense with passive voice.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

No its not. As passive voice it would have been written

"has been Special summoned"

But even that is wrong, and still in the past tense.

 

is Special Summoned by its own effect.

 

It should have been written...

 

You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" Activates by its own effect in the graveyard.

The way it is written, It is already on the field.

[CrabHelmet]

This is past tense' date='

[/quote']

 

No, it isn't. It's the present tense with passive voice.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

No its not. As passive voice it would have been written

"has been Special summoned"

But even that is wrong, and still in the past tense.

 

"has been Special Summoned" would be present perfect tense in passive voice. "is Special Summoned" is present tense in passive voice.

 

lern2english

[Tronta]

alright, fatty takes precedence.

and yes, location does matter for one simply reason:

a card cannot be destroyed while it is in the graveyard because it is already destroyed.

period.

thus, negating its special summon effect while its in the graveyard causes it to stay there, limp and dead.

 

 

something cannot be destroyed while it is in the graveyard.

 

 

also:

psz =?

 

 

last:

crabs, any views on the oppression/gorz interplay, and gorz's mechanics during the damage step?

[iAmNateXero]

Psz= Plaguespreader Zombie.

 

And this still raises argument. If it is not being destroyed in the graveyard, Why are you allowed to Stardust Oppression Vs PSZ. Assuming PSZ is activating in the graveyard?

[Chevalier]

Oppression can not stop any part of Gorz. Everything happens during the damage step.

 

He got to it first.

[Tronta]

i heard it could stop the token summon. is that wrong?

furthermore, can you then solemn gorz, because of its spell speed 3?

 

and i assume you can oppress it when activated in response to burn?

 

anyway, im not entirely positive on the interplay of psz.

i would assume that if you negate its special summon, it could come right back if it really wanted to. of course you would have to pay the cost again. i think quillbolt works the same, if im not mistaken.

that seems a little screwy to me though.

perhaps, once negated, its effect cannot activate again?

as in this ruling:

If "Light and Darkness Dragon" negates the effect of "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness", then "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness" remains in your hand. You cannot activate the effect of "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness" again the next time you take damage.[3]

only as it would apply to effects activated in the graveyard.

[Big Bad Pennar]

For the Vent:

 

Most judges = Epic Fail

 

Especially due to this:

 

A player walks up to the head judge ad says "Hey how are you doing *Slips $100 to his pocket*

 

During a duel....

 

Bribing Player plays abundance and the other player chains oppression, Which he tries to negate Abundance, and the Bribing player says "you cannot do that" at which the other player calls the Judge and the player asks "Can you chain Oppression on abundance?" at which the Judge says "Nope you cannot"

 

After Other player gets home from Tourney....

 

The other player says as he looks at the rulings for Oppression and Abundance "I got F***ed!"

 

 

 

okay, for the Gorz Question, I've heard the same about the token being able to be oppressioned

[Tronta]

well, the cb guy was my friend, furtermore, even if he did bribe the judge, its funking cbs. he knew he wasnt going to win. he was just having fun.

it was also just a small local tournament held weekly

nothing special.

[CrabHelmet]

Lawl @ the suggestion of bribery. You are attributing to malice what actually results from incompetence. It doesn't help that the Level 1 judging test is a bloody joke that any idiot can pass.

 

And the token resolves in the Damage Step as well.

[iAmNateXero]

i heard it could stop the token summon. is that wrong?

furthermore' date=' can you then solemn gorz, because of its spell speed 3?

 

and i assume you can oppress it when activated in response to burn?

 

anyway, im not entirely positive on the interplay of psz.

i would assume that if you negate its special summon, it could come right back if it really wanted to. of course you would have to pay the cost again. i think quillbolt works the same, if im not mistaken.

that seems a little screwy to me though.

perhaps, once negated, its effect cannot activate again?

as in this ruling:

If "Light and Darkness Dragon" negates the effect of "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness", then "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness" remains in your hand. You cannot activate the effect of "Gorz the Emissary of Darkness" again the next time you take damage.[3']

only as it would apply to effects activated in the graveyard.

 

Oppression/LADD Vs. Treeborn Ruins your argument. The answer is Yugioh is full of Flaws, and Crappy rulings stickied because PPL like Curitz couldn't stand being wrong, or people believing his logic is always 100% right. For example... Unlimited Chains in the "Before Damage Calculation" phase of the Damage Step.

[Big Bad Pennar]

@ Crab: I've actually met people at my Locals(Which actually hold Hobby League and Advanced format Tournaments, unlike the Lolocals) that have been a victim of it or have witnessed people become a victim of it

 

also What does PSZ have to do with Gorz?

[SephirothKirby]

@ Crab: I've actually met people at my Locals(Which actually hold Hobby League and Advanced format Tournaments' date=' unlike the Lolocals) that have been a victim of it or have witnessed people become a victim of it

 

also What does PSZ have to do with Gorz?

[/quote']

 

What do locals host if not Advanced Format Tournaments?

[Big Bad Pennar]

@ Crab: I've actually met people at my Locals(Which actually hold Hobby League and Advanced format Tournaments' date=' unlike the Lolocals) that have been a victim of it or have witnessed people become a victim of it

 

also What does PSZ have to do with Gorz?

[/quote']

 

What do locals host if not Advanced Format Tournaments?

 

Most Local Tournaments are Traditional format, those locals i have dubbed, Lolocals

[iAmNateXero]

@ Crab: I've actually met people at my Locals(Which actually hold Hobby League and Advanced format Tournaments' date=' unlike the Lolocals) that have been a victim of it or have witnessed people become a victim of it

 

also What does PSZ have to do with Gorz?

[/quote']

 

Why don't you read the thread and not just a few sentences from the first page.

[Tronta]

were questioning the interplay between oppression and various special summons such as gorz, psz, nephthys, treeborn, quillbolt, and all other such trolls.

 

since im running oppression in my new deck, i want to understand all of the rulings and mechanics involving it, in order to be an effective duelist.

 

 

so oppression misses the shits on gorz

what about solemn in relation to his special during the damage step?

it should miss the timing on the token, but not him.

 

treeborn says it can be resummoned, actually, which leads me to believe the same of psz (provided you pay the cost), samsara, quillbolt, and other such trolls.

 

however, it doesnt work for nephthys as he isn't destroyed, because he is in the graveyard and cannot be.

 

 

also, curtz?

[CrabHelmet]

what about solemn in relation to his special during the damage step?

it should miss the timing on the token' date=' but not him.

[/quote']

 

Solemn can't be used against Gorz. It can only stop Spells, Traps, and self-Special Summons that do not use the chain. Gorz uses the chain, so Solemn can't stop him.