A Good Ban List

[GenzoTheHarpist]

We should deal with NecroMill OTK by banning inferno tempest which only exists to execute that strategy.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

^Sounds good.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

It punishes your opponent for playing well by forcing them to duel with a 2100 lolbeatstick.

 

Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Athena's can't use their trib-and-revive effects on each other BTW. It's not an OTK.

 

Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

"Costless" isn't a good reason, as there are plenty of cards that activate without costs. "Hammer Shot" doesn't have a cost, just more opportunities when you can activate it. Doesn't make it broken.

 

Zombies love this list.

 

Zombies also love drawing endless with CoSR, which is banned.

 

Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

Two turn -1.

 

There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

What's versatile about 4 tokens 0/0 tokens?

 

It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

The problem with PoC is that there are plenty of monsters who's present a large reward while having a difficult summoning condition. With PoC, you can bypass the difficult summoning condition portion of it and come up with a large reward regardless.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list.

 

Reasoning for Cyber Dragon' date=' Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x?

 

Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai?

 

Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike?

 

Resoning for DDV and EEV?

 

Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot?

 

Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/

 

Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/

 

Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that.

[/quote']

 

Cyber Dragon. Over-aggressive beatstick that rewards bad play. Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

Cyber End. So Metamorphosis can be at 3. Sounds good.

 

What is wrong with IRS? Batteryman OTK, Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Chain Strike. I have already explained.

 

DDV and EEV. Both are powerful type killers. Type killers? Because S/Ts are a Type that's on the brink of extinction right? As for 1500- monsters, they don't kill Types that much more than any other Type to be said to specifically seek out and kill monsters of a certain Type.

 

ARA is balanced. Demise was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Of course, didn't mean to dispute that one.It is after all on my list. xD

 

Card Destruction. Splashable draw power with a reasonable cost. Too easily abused. Too powerful in Dark World.

 

Cathedral. Make Trap Monsters more playable. What is the problem with that? Eh, suppose it's okay with Exodia out.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady. 1-for-1 removal with legs. Those're points for supporting the argument of DDWL being a good card. Not for it being balanced.

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground. Balanced 1-for-1 removal. Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

Foolish Burial. Why the hell shouldn't it be at 3? Since when was dumping a monster a banworthy or Limit-worthy offense? And Painful Choice is superbanworthy for many reasons so don't bring that into the discussion. Zombies love this list.

 

Gold Sarcophagus. Already explained. Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

NS Grand Mole. Ultimate Offering was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Offering promotes reckless overextension so that goes. If you have more monsters than your opponent, Grand Mole will force your opponent to overextend or lose.

 

Ojama Trio. Already explained. What about Ultimate Tyranno and Big Bang Shot/Meteor Crush/Final Attack Orders?

 

Scapegoat. What is the problem with generating monster tokens again? There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

SoRL. Temporary Stall. What is wrong with that? Limiting the Fool and Unlimiting this is pro.

 

T.T. It has an acceptable activation requirement. Give me appropriate reasoning and I'll rethink it. T.T. is Dark Hole. Your opponent Summoning a monster isn't "an acceptable activation requirement."

 

Dustshoot. It has activation requirements and a restricted target range. What is wrong with that? The effect you're getting out of it.

 

Phantom of Chaos. I have eliminated the banworthy targets for it. Why should it be a problem now? It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

Dandylion. Since when was token generating banworthy? And Gorz is not a part of this. He is banworthy for other reasons. Not banworthy, just not threeworthy. The Tokens can be generated by sending this to the Grave in any way, including milling, in which case this is a +2. If it was field restricted and the Tokens couldn't be Tributed ever I'd agree, but as it is, I don't. Creature Swap and E-Con should be banned/limited respectively if Dandy and Scape are gonna be at 3-a-piece.

 

Necroface. I need to see concrete evidence as to why it is a problem because I dont see one. Necromill OTK.

 

I also fixed that little typo. Good. =D

 

Magician of Faith and Mask of Darkness. I have already explained Magician of Faith so you should be able to draw the same conclusion with Mask of Darkness from that. MoF copies any non-banned Spell's effect in the game. It's worth the FLIP effect. Too much so.

 

Let me know if I missed anything. I'm tired here. Jinzo and Mind Crush.

 

Card Destruction. Good point with Dark Worlds. It shouldn't be banned because it is still a -1 and splashable draw power that helps other decks apart from Dark World.

 

Swords and The Fool are not that close to being the same. Swords only lasts 3 turns or if it gets hit my S/T removal. The Fool lasts until it gets hit by monster removal.

 

Final Attack Orders, Battle Mania and All-Out Attacks are all banned so why should Ojama Trio need any list attention?

 

As far as Foolish Burial goes, how the hell are Zombies going to really gain anything. CoSR is banned so Zombie players will still have to play more conservatively than the current ban list even with Foolish Burial at 3.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady has to attack or be attacked for her effect to activate. A reasonable requirement in my book.

 

DDV and EEV are banworthy for pretty much the same reasons as CCV.

 

Cyber Dragon is banworthy. In addition to having much the same qualities as Vice Dragon, it can also be used as a beatstick without any need for extra support (Skill Drain in the case of Vice Dragon).

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground are in no way broken. They are 1-for-1. When was that a Limit-worthy offense?

 

Phantom of Chaos. I dont see why that should be a problem. Levia and ODL both require a lot of dedication (more than say, Judgment Dragon or Norleras) to actually be effective. Without it, they are nothing more than beatsticks with a situational field nuke. I still fail to see the problem with Phantom of Chaos.

 

Necroface. Banning Inferno Tempest should fix that.

 

Scapegoat does prevent you from summoning so that is an acceptable cost IMO.

 

I guess you're right about T.T. I think it can be Limited due to the activation requirement.

 

Grand Mole has a reasonable requirement for its effect (attacking or being attacked). I dont think the opponent would have to overextend or lose just to get around it.

 

I still dont see how Dandy is a problem here. Examples will help.

 

You also do realize IRS' activation requirement right?

 

Magician of Faith has no banworthy targets so I hardly think it should be dealt with. It is also a Flip Effect monster and that is a cost in itself.

 

Mind Crush requires skill and timing to get the desired outcome. It also isn't a card designed solely to OTK. You could recklessly activate it, guess wrong and get hit by it yourself. Mind Crush rewards good play. It can be at 3.

 

Jinzo. Type killer as well as a beatstick.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

It punishes your opponent for playing well by forcing them to duel with a 2100 lolbeatstick.

 

Clearing opp's monsters isn't ALWAYS "playing well."

 

Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Athena's can't use their trib-and-revive effects on each other BTW. It's not an OTK.

 

Yes it is. Athena + Celestial' date=' then you get 2 more Athenas for 1200 burn damage, then 6500 ATK damage, then any Fairy-Type Normal Summon wins the game. Yes it assumes clear field, but the main reason IRS should be banned isn't this, it's Batteryman OTK.[/b']

 

Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

"Costless" isn't a good reason, as there are plenty of cards that activate without costs. "Hammer Shot" doesn't have a cost, just more opportunities when you can activate it. Doesn't make it broken.

 

Zombies love this list.

 

Zombies also love drawing endless with CoSR, which is banned.

 

Point taken. Zombies still love 3 Foolish.

 

Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

Two turn -1.

 

I hope you meant it's only a -1 while you're waiting for your card. It's a 0 overall and it's ANY card. Limiting would be arguable, 3 is not.

 

There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

What's versatile about 4 tokens 0/0 tokens?

 

Creature Swap, E-Con, Synchro Summons, buncha stuff.

 

It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

The problem with PoC is that there are plenty of monsters who's present a large reward while having a difficult summoning condition. With PoC, you can bypass the difficult summoning condition portion of it and come up with a large reward regardless.

 

Part of the umbrella of having the effect of any non-banned monster.

 

I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list.

 

Reasoning for Cyber Dragon' date=' Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x?

 

Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai?

 

Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike?

 

Resoning for DDV and EEV?

 

Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot?

 

Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/

 

Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/

 

Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that.

[/quote']

 

Cyber Dragon. Over-aggressive beatstick that rewards bad play. Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

Cyber End. So Metamorphosis can be at 3. Sounds good.

 

What is wrong with IRS? Batteryman OTK, Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Chain Strike. I have already explained.

 

DDV and EEV. Both are powerful type killers. Type killers? Because S/Ts are a Type that's on the brink of extinction right? As for 1500- monsters, they don't kill Types that much more than any other Type to be said to specifically seek out and kill monsters of a certain Type.

 

ARA is balanced. Demise was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Of course, didn't mean to dispute that one.It is after all on my list. xD

 

Card Destruction. Splashable draw power with a reasonable cost. Too easily abused. Too powerful in Dark World.

 

Cathedral. Make Trap Monsters more playable. What is the problem with that? Eh, suppose it's okay with Exodia out.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady. 1-for-1 removal with legs. Those're points for supporting the argument of DDWL being a good card. Not for it being balanced.

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground. Balanced 1-for-1 removal. Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

Foolish Burial. Why the hell shouldn't it be at 3? Since when was dumping a monster a banworthy or Limit-worthy offense? And Painful Choice is superbanworthy for many reasons so don't bring that into the discussion. Zombies love this list.

 

Gold Sarcophagus. Already explained. Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

NS Grand Mole. Ultimate Offering was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Offering promotes reckless overextension so that goes. If you have more monsters than your opponent, Grand Mole will force your opponent to overextend or lose.

 

Ojama Trio. Already explained. What about Ultimate Tyranno and Big Bang Shot/Meteor Crush/Final Attack Orders?

 

Scapegoat. What is the problem with generating monster tokens again? There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

SoRL. Temporary Stall. What is wrong with that? Limiting the Fool and Unlimiting this is pro.

 

T.T. It has an acceptable activation requirement. Give me appropriate reasoning and I'll rethink it. T.T. is Dark Hole. Your opponent Summoning a monster isn't "an acceptable activation requirement."

 

Dustshoot. It has activation requirements and a restricted target range. What is wrong with that? The effect you're getting out of it.

 

Phantom of Chaos. I have eliminated the banworthy targets for it. Why should it be a problem now? It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

Dandylion. Since when was token generating banworthy? And Gorz is not a part of this. He is banworthy for other reasons. Not banworthy, just not threeworthy. The Tokens can be generated by sending this to the Grave in any way, including milling, in which case this is a +2. If it was field restricted and the Tokens couldn't be Tributed ever I'd agree, but as it is, I don't. Creature Swap and E-Con should be banned/limited respectively if Dandy and Scape are gonna be at 3-a-piece.

 

Necroface. I need to see concrete evidence as to why it is a problem because I dont see one. Necromill OTK.

 

I also fixed that little typo. Good. =D

 

Magician of Faith and Mask of Darkness. I have already explained Magician of Faith so you should be able to draw the same conclusion with Mask of Darkness from that. MoF copies any non-banned Spell's effect in the game. It's worth the FLIP effect. Too much so.

 

Let me know if I missed anything. I'm tired here. Jinzo and Mind Crush.

 

Card Destruction. Good point with Dark Worlds. It shouldn't be banned because it is still a -1 and splashable draw power that helps other decks apart from Dark World. Not banned, limited as it was.

 

Swords and The Fool are not that close to being the same. Swords only lasts 3 turns or if it gets hit my S/T removal. The Fool lasts until it gets hit by monster removal. You have DDWL, Smashing, Fissure, and Mole at 3. It won't be much of an issue.

 

Final Attack Orders, Battle Mania and All-Out Attacks are all banned so why should Ojama Trio need any list attention? Already told you. You missed Ultimate Tyranno OTK and Asura Priest now that I come to think of it.

 

As far as Foolish Burial goes, how the hell are Zombies going to really gain anything. CoSR is banned so Zombie players will still have to play more conservatively than the current ban list even with Foolish Burial at 3.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady has to attack or be attacked for her effect to activate. A reasonable requirement in my book. It has an optional RFPing 1-for-1, as well as being a super-searchable beatstick. It's limitworthy.

 

DDV and EEV are banworthy for pretty much the same reasons as CCV. They have considerably larger costs, and depending on the situation, often don't even have as much of an effect.

 

Cyber Dragon is banworthy. In addition to having much the same qualities as Vice Dragon, it can also be used as a beatstick without any need for extra support (Skill Drain in the case of Vice Dragon). Vice Dragon is DARK. Vice Dragon isn't even listed, though it's about equal to CyDra, considering how much you've damaged Machines already, I don't see why CyDra's banworthy.

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground are in no way broken. They are 1-for-1. When was that a Limit-worthy offense? Graceful Charity's also a 0. A costless 1-for-1 is still huge field presence. And it's 1 from your hand for 1 on their field, which is limitworthy imo.

 

Phantom of Chaos. I dont see why that should be a problem. Levia and ODL both require a lot of dedication (more than say, Judgment Dragon or Norleras) to actually be effective. Without it, they are nothing more than beatsticks with a situational field nuke. I still fail to see the problem with Phantom of Chaos. They can be effective by Foolishing and nuking with PoC, the bigger thing here is that PoC can be dropped an take on the effect of any monster of any Level of any Summoning req, which is bad.

 

Necroface. Banning Inferno Tempest should fix that. Good call.

 

Scapegoat does prevent you from summoning so that is an acceptable cost IMO.

People generally don't use it on their own turns.

 

I guess you're right about T.T. I think it can be Limited due to the activation requirement.

 

Grand Mole has a reasonable requirement for its effect (attacking or being attacked). I dont think the opponent would have to overextend or lose just to get around it. I guess it could be alright in threes. idk.

 

I still dont see how Dandy is a problem here. Examples will help. Tribute Summons aren't all Dandy tokens can be used for. Synchro Summons, effect fodder, etc. It's not banworthy, but it's limitworthy. Not threeworthy.

 

You also do realize IRS' activation requirement right? Yes, AA+Circuit+this is a 3-card OTK, which is bad.

 

Magician of Faith has no banworthy targets so I hardly think it should be dealt with. It is also a Flip Effect monster and that is a cost in itself. It's the toolbox of effects it can have that's the problem. Limitworthy imo.

 

Mind Crush requires skill and timing to get the desired outcome. It also isn't a card designed solely to OTK. You could recklessly activate it, guess wrong and get hit by it yourself. Mind Crush rewards good play. It can be at 3. You're right.

 

Jinzo. Type killer as well as a beatstick. Being a beatstick isn't banworthy. Traps aren't a Type and 1 Jinzo won't annihilate them. Hell, even 3 doesn't hurt them all that much. And if Trap-killers are banworthy, where's Royal Decree?

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

how is the treeborn that bad of a card to be banned

 

Infinite Tribute Fodder.

 

Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

It punishes your opponent for playing well by forcing them to duel with a 2100 lolbeatstick.

 

Clearing opp's monsters isn't ALWAYS "playing well."

 

Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Athena's can't use their trib-and-revive effects on each other BTW. It's not an OTK.

 

Yes it is. Athena + Celestial' date=' then you get 2 more Athenas for 1200 burn damage, then 6500 ATK damage, then any Fairy-Type Normal Summon wins the game. Yes it assumes clear field, but the main reason IRS should be banned isn't this, it's Batteryman OTK.[/b']

 

Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

"Costless" isn't a good reason, as there are plenty of cards that activate without costs. "Hammer Shot" doesn't have a cost, just more opportunities when you can activate it. Doesn't make it broken.

 

Zombies love this list.

 

Zombies also love drawing endless with CoSR, which is banned.

 

Point taken. Zombies still love 3 Foolish.

 

Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

Two turn -1.

 

I hope you meant it's only a -1 while you're waiting for your card. It's a 0 overall and it's ANY card. Limiting would be arguable, 3 is not.

 

There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

What's versatile about 4 tokens 0/0 tokens?

 

Creature Swap, E-Con, Synchro Summons, buncha stuff.

 

It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

The problem with PoC is that there are plenty of monsters who's present a large reward while having a difficult summoning condition. With PoC, you can bypass the difficult summoning condition portion of it and come up with a large reward regardless.

 

Part of the umbrella of having the effect of any non-banned monster.

 

I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list.

 

Reasoning for Cyber Dragon' date=' Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x?

 

Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai?

 

Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike?

 

Resoning for DDV and EEV?

 

Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot?

 

Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/

 

Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/

 

Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that.

[/quote']

 

Cyber Dragon. Over-aggressive beatstick that rewards bad play. Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1.

 

Cyber End. So Metamorphosis can be at 3. Sounds good.

 

What is wrong with IRS? Batteryman OTK, Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK.

 

Chain Strike. I have already explained.

 

DDV and EEV. Both are powerful type killers. Type killers? Because S/Ts are a Type that's on the brink of extinction right? As for 1500- monsters, they don't kill Types that much more than any other Type to be said to specifically seek out and kill monsters of a certain Type.

 

ARA is balanced. Demise was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Of course, didn't mean to dispute that one.It is after all on my list. xD

 

Card Destruction. Splashable draw power with a reasonable cost. Too easily abused. Too powerful in Dark World.

 

Cathedral. Make Trap Monsters more playable. What is the problem with that? Eh, suppose it's okay with Exodia out.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady. 1-for-1 removal with legs. Those're points for supporting the argument of DDWL being a good card. Not for it being balanced.

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground. Balanced 1-for-1 removal. Costless. They should stay Limited.

 

Foolish Burial. Why the hell shouldn't it be at 3? Since when was dumping a monster a banworthy or Limit-worthy offense? And Painful Choice is superbanworthy for many reasons so don't bring that into the discussion. Zombies love this list.

 

Gold Sarcophagus. Already explained. Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this.

 

NS Grand Mole. Ultimate Offering was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Offering promotes reckless overextension so that goes. If you have more monsters than your opponent, Grand Mole will force your opponent to overextend or lose.

 

Ojama Trio. Already explained. What about Ultimate Tyranno and Big Bang Shot/Meteor Crush/Final Attack Orders?

 

Scapegoat. What is the problem with generating monster tokens again? There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3.

 

SoRL. Temporary Stall. What is wrong with that? Limiting the Fool and Unlimiting this is pro.

 

T.T. It has an acceptable activation requirement. Give me appropriate reasoning and I'll rethink it. T.T. is Dark Hole. Your opponent Summoning a monster isn't "an acceptable activation requirement."

 

Dustshoot. It has activation requirements and a restricted target range. What is wrong with that? The effect you're getting out of it.

 

Phantom of Chaos. I have eliminated the banworthy targets for it. Why should it be a problem now? It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD.

 

Dandylion. Since when was token generating banworthy? And Gorz is not a part of this. He is banworthy for other reasons. Not banworthy, just not threeworthy. The Tokens can be generated by sending this to the Grave in any way, including milling, in which case this is a +2. If it was field restricted and the Tokens couldn't be Tributed ever I'd agree, but as it is, I don't. Creature Swap and E-Con should be banned/limited respectively if Dandy and Scape are gonna be at 3-a-piece.

 

Necroface. I need to see concrete evidence as to why it is a problem because I dont see one. Necromill OTK.

 

I also fixed that little typo. Good. =D

 

Magician of Faith and Mask of Darkness. I have already explained Magician of Faith so you should be able to draw the same conclusion with Mask of Darkness from that. MoF copies any non-banned Spell's effect in the game. It's worth the FLIP effect. Too much so.

 

Let me know if I missed anything. I'm tired here. Jinzo and Mind Crush.

 

Card Destruction. Good point with Dark Worlds. It shouldn't be banned because it is still a -1 and splashable draw power that helps other decks apart from Dark World. Not banned, limited as it was.

 

Swords and The Fool are not that close to being the same. Swords only lasts 3 turns or if it gets hit my S/T removal. The Fool lasts until it gets hit by monster removal. You have DDWL, Smashing, Fissure, and Mole at 3. It won't be much of an issue.

 

Final Attack Orders, Battle Mania and All-Out Attacks are all banned so why should Ojama Trio need any list attention? Already told you. You missed Ultimate Tyranno OTK and Asura Priest now that I come to think of it.

 

As far as Foolish Burial goes, how the hell are Zombies going to really gain anything. CoSR is banned so Zombie players will still have to play more conservatively than the current ban list even with Foolish Burial at 3.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady has to attack or be attacked for her effect to activate. A reasonable requirement in my book. It has an optional RFPing 1-for-1, as well as being a super-searchable beatstick. It's limitworthy.

 

DDV and EEV are banworthy for pretty much the same reasons as CCV. They have considerably larger costs, and depending on the situation, often don't even have as much of an effect.

 

Cyber Dragon is banworthy. In addition to having much the same qualities as Vice Dragon, it can also be used as a beatstick without any need for extra support (Skill Drain in the case of Vice Dragon). Vice Dragon is DARK. Vice Dragon isn't even listed, though it's about equal to CyDra, considering how much you've damaged Machines already, I don't see why CyDra's banworthy.

 

Fissure and Smashing Ground are in no way broken. They are 1-for-1. When was that a Limit-worthy offense? Graceful Charity's also a 0. A costless 1-for-1 is still huge field presence. And it's 1 from your hand for 1 on their field, which is limitworthy imo.

 

Phantom of Chaos. I dont see why that should be a problem. Levia and ODL both require a lot of dedication (more than say, Judgment Dragon or Norleras) to actually be effective. Without it, they are nothing more than beatsticks with a situational field nuke. I still fail to see the problem with Phantom of Chaos. They can be effective by Foolishing and nuking with PoC, the bigger thing here is that PoC can be dropped an take on the effect of any monster of any Level of any Summoning req, which is bad.

 

Necroface. Banning Inferno Tempest should fix that. Good call.

 

Scapegoat does prevent you from summoning so that is an acceptable cost IMO.

People generally don't use it on their own turns.

 

I guess you're right about T.T. I think it can be Limited due to the activation requirement.

 

Grand Mole has a reasonable requirement for its effect (attacking or being attacked). I dont think the opponent would have to overextend or lose just to get around it. I guess it could be alright in threes. idk.

 

I still dont see how Dandy is a problem here. Examples will help. Tribute Summons aren't all Dandy tokens can be used for. Synchro Summons, effect fodder, etc. It's not banworthy, but it's limitworthy. Not threeworthy.

 

You also do realize IRS' activation requirement right? Yes, AA+Circuit+this is a 3-card OTK, which is bad.

 

Magician of Faith has no banworthy targets so I hardly think it should be dealt with. It is also a Flip Effect monster and that is a cost in itself. It's the toolbox of effects it can have that's the problem. Limitworthy imo.

 

Mind Crush requires skill and timing to get the desired outcome. It also isn't a card designed solely to OTK. You could recklessly activate it, guess wrong and get hit by it yourself. Mind Crush rewards good play. It can be at 3. You're right.

 

Jinzo. Type killer as well as a beatstick. Being a beatstick isn't banworthy. Traps aren't a Type and 1 Jinzo won't annihilate them. Hell, even 3 doesn't hurt them all that much. And if Trap-killers are banworthy, where's Royal Decree?

 

Card Destruction can go to 1.

 

Royal Decree is much more reasonable than Jinzo. Jinzo is a type killer and a beatstick. Decree is just a type killer that happens to be a continuous Trap Card. You also cant waste protection on it unless it happens to be one of the 2 Stardust Dragons.

 

The Batteryman OTK is reliant on the opponent with IRS.

 

Magician of Faith. Since when did a toolbox become limitworthy?

 

Graceful Charity is way different than Smashing Ground and Fissure.

 

Cyber Dragon can not only be used for Machines. There's also Monarchs, Synchros, a beatstick for any Aggro or Beatdown Deck.

 

D.D. Warrior Lady. Since when was being searchable Limit-worthy? As far as optional 1-for-1, why do you not mention Exiled Force? That is in about the same league as D.D. Warrior Lady and doesn't require an attack. Should that be Limited?

 

Asura Priest OTK and Ultimate Tyranno OTK. I don't see them as problematic OTKs. Same deal with the Macro Voltic OTK. No list can be expected to cover every conceivable OTK. That's why the problematic ones are taken care of. Why are the Tyranno and Priest OTKs problematic?

 

Phantom of Chaos. It does indeed get around difficult summoning but why are the targets a problem? If the targets are a problem and banworthy, ban them and leave this alone. If the targets are not a problem without this but a problem with this, then this can go. Give me an example of when such a thing would happen. ODL and LDD require dedication. That balances them.

[OnSlaUghT]

if this banlist was to actually happen, it would revolutionize yugioh, and the game will be really fun after that!

[Flame Dragon]

Brain should go to 0. It allows you to use your opponent monsters as your own beatstick, as well as tribute and synchro food.

 

SoRL should go to 1. Even if it is a open to spell and trap removal it severlly limits Aggro.

[Guest Supreme Gamesmaster]

Cathedral is at 3 while Makyura is at 0?

Magician of Faith is at 3 while DMoC is at 0?

 

What am I missing...?

[Guest]

Cathedral is at 3 while Makyura is at 0?

 

Chick OTK' date=' not to mention that Cathedral is a -1 and gets in the way of Chainburn.

 

Magician of Faith is at 3 while DMoC is at 0?

 

Not all spell recursion is equal.

[SephirothKirby]

Phantom of Chaos can still copy the Leviathans.

[Tronta]

in a lot of places, this seems to be throwing away powerful cards and then bringing other ones just as powerful back. why is change of heart banned while brain control is unlimited? the cost is negligible.

 

also, i believe necroface was used in an otk. i dont remember the circumstances on it too terribly well though.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Brain should go to 0. It allows you to use your opponent monsters as your own beatstick' date=' as well as tribute and synchro food.

 

SoRL should go to 1. Even if it is a open to spell and trap removal it severlly limits Aggro.

[/quote']

 

Good point on both. Brain Control banned. SoRL Limited.

 

in a lot of places' date=' this seems to be throwing away powerful cards and then bringing other ones just as powerful back. why is change of heart banned while brain control is unlimited? the cost is negligible.

 

also, i believe necroface was used in an otk. i dont remember the circumstances on it too terribly well though.

[/quote']

 

Inferno Tempest is banned. With that banned, the Necromill OTK can't occur.

[Lemniscate]

Why is Marshmallon limited?

It is an easy to destroy monster card who's only real ability is to stall.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Why is Marshmallon limited?

It is an easy to destroy monster card who's only real ability is to stall.

 

That's kind of the reason. At 3, you are forced to main Deck more removal than you need to just to get rid of it. The same kind of goes for Spirit Reaper and The Fool.

[Lemniscate]

Right then. I can understand that.

[Tronta]

well, it seems to me that you have a bit too much of a bias against stall cards.

[Lemniscate]

Stall stops the game, makes it stagnant, it should never be top-tier.

[Tronta]

stall is meant to stop the game.

fast paced isnt necessarily better, thats just your opinion.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

well' date=' it seems to me that you have a bit too much of a bias against stall cards.

[/quote']

 

No. I don't.

 

Stall is perfectly viable under this Ban List. Stuff like Dark Armed Dragon and the like completely murder stall. If I wanted Stall to die, I would've banned all the Stall Cards but that would just be stupid.

 

Stall stops the game' date=' makes it stagnant, it should never be top-tier.

[/quote']

 

Exactly. If Stall became the only viable build, the game would be stagnant and die. But that doesn't mean stall shouldn't be a viable Deck. It is good for the game but it shouldn't be the only viable Deck.

[Tronta]

hrm, thats weird.

i think i actually misread a lot of it. i dont recall where my argument originated, too much time has elapsed and i dont frankly care. why did you ban cylinder and not dimension wall? aside from a few key points such as the negation involved in cylinder, theyre essentially the same card.

[Guest]

hrm' date=' thats weird.

i think i actually misread a lot of it. i dont recall where my argument originated, too much time has elapsed and i dont frankly care. why did you ban cylinder and not dimension wall? aside from a few key points such as the negation involved in cylinder, theyre essentially the same card.

[/quote']

 

The two are only equivalent if you control no monsters - an acceptable price for the effect. Cylinder deals full damage under all circumstances and protects a monster.

[OnSlaUghT]

stupid question: Why is all-out attacks banned?

[Tronta]

its used in an otk.

[Valkyrie Lupia Blitzer]

So what would the meta be?

 

Lightsworns and Plants, I think.