Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Since most people on YCM have no idea what a good Ban List looks like, I shall post this: I. Forbidden Cards ALL-OUT ATTACKSARCANA FORCE EX - THE DARK RULERARCANA FORCE XXI – THE WORLDARMED SAMURAI – BEN-KEIBATTLE MANIABLACK LUSTER SOLDIER – ENVOY OF THE BEGINNINGBRAIN CONTROLBREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIORBUTTERFLY DAGGER – ELMACALL OF THE HAUNTEDCARD OF SAFE RETURNCHANGE OF HEARTCHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON – ENVOY OF THE ENDCHAOS SORCERERCHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGONCHIMERATECH OVERDRAGONCONFISCATIONCRUSH CARD VIRUSCYBER DRAGONCYBER JARCYBER-STEINCYBER END DRAGONCYBER TWIN DRAGONDARK ARMED DRAGONDARK HOLEDARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOSDARKLORD ZERATODECK DEVASTATION VIRUSDELINQUENT DUODEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDONDIMENSION FUSIONERADICATOR EPIDEMIC VIRUSEVIL HERO DARK GAIAEXCHANGE OF THE SPIRITEXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONEFIBER JARGLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUSGORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESSGRACEFUL CHARITYHARPIE’S FEATHER DUSTERIMPERIAL IRON WALLIMPERIAL ORDERINFERNO TEMPESTJINZOJUDGMENT DRAGONLAST TURNLAST WILLLIFE EQUALIZERLIMITER REMOVALMAGE POWERMAGIC CYLINDERMAGICAL EXPLOSIONMAGICAL SCIENTISTMAKYURA THE DESTRUCTORMEGAMORPHMIRAGE OF NIGHTMAREMORPHING JARMONSTER REBORNNOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUTPAINFUL CHOICEPOT OF GREEDPOWER BONDPREMATURE BURIALRAIGEKIRETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONREVERSAL QUIZRING OF DESTRUCTIONSANGANSELF-DESTRUCT BUTTONSINISTER SERPENTSIXTH SENSESKY SCOURGE NORLERASSNATCH STEALSNIPE HUNTERTHE FORCEFUL SENTRYTHOUSAND-EYES RESTRICTTIME SEALTREEBORN FROGTRIBE-INFECTING VIRUSTSUKUYOMIULTIMATE OFFERINGUNITED WE STANDVICTORY DRAGONWAVE-MOTION CANNONWITCH OF THE BLACK FORESTX - SABER AIRBELLUMYATA-GARASU NEW! – All-Out Attacks, Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler, Arcana Force XXI – The World, Armed Samurai – Ben-Kei, Battle Mania, Brain Control, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Card of Safe Return, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Chimeratech Overdragon, Crush Card Virus, Cyber Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Deck Devastation Virus, Demise, King of Armageddon, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, Exodia the Forbidden One, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Gorz the Emissary of Darkness, Imperial Iron Wall, Inferno Tempest, Jinzo, Judgment Dragon, Life Equalizer, Limiter Removal, Mage Power, Magic Cylinder, Magical Explosion, Megamorph, Morphing Jar, Monster Reborn, Nobleman of Crossout, Power Bond, Return from the Different Dimension, Reversal Quiz, Sangan, Self-Destruct Button, Sky Scourge Norleras, Snipe Hunter, Treeborn Frog, Ultimate Offering, United We Stand, Wave-Motion Cannon, X - Saber Airbellum II. Limited Cards ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOLCARD DESTRUCTIONCARD TROOPERCEASEFIRECHAIN STRIKEELEMENTAL HERO STRATOSGIANT TRUNADEGRAVITY BINDGREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FORESTHEAVY STORMLEVEL LIMIT - AREA BMARSHMALLONMIRROR FORCENIGHT ASSAILANTSPIRIT REAPERSWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT NEW! – Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Chain Strike III. Semi-Limited Cards DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS NEW! – Destiny Hero - Malicious NEW! – The following cards are no longer Limited: Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Destiny Hero – Disk Commander, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Future Fusion, Gold Sarcophagus, Left Arm of the Forbidden One, Left Leg of the Forbidden One, Magician of Faith, Magical Stone Excavation, Manticore of Darkness, Mask of Darkness, Metamorphosis, Mind Crush, Monster Gate, Mystical Space Typhoon, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Overload Fusion, Phantom of Chaos, Raiza the Storm Monarch, Reasoning, Rescue Cat, Right Arm of the Forbidden One, Right Leg of the Forbidden One, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Summon Priest, The Transmigration Prophecy, Torrential Tribute, Trap Dustshoot, Twin-Headed Behemoth, Wall of Revealing Light Reasons for choices shall be explained on request. If you have anything to dispute here, please provide a well-reasoned argument or it will be ignored. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Request Machine Duplication justification. Before you mention Card Trooper, I submit that neither card is a problem on its own, and Machine Duplication brings much more to the game than the extra copy or two of that generic floater would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Request Machine Duplication justification. Before you mention Card Trooper' date=' I submit that neither card is a problem on its own, and Machine Duplication brings much more to the game than the extra copy or two of that generic floater would.[/quote'] Well, Trooper is the only problem I really see with Machine Duplication. If Machine Duplication brings more to the game than Card Trooper, then, I see no reason why Machine Duplication should stay banned. Machine Duplication at 3. Card Trooper at 1. Trooper at 1 cannot cause any harm to the game with Machine Duplication at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Request Machine Duplication justification. Before you mention Card Trooper' date=' I submit that neither card is a problem on its own, and Machine Duplication brings much more to the game than the extra copy or two of that generic floater would.[/quote'] Well, Trooper is the only problem I really see with Machine Duplication. If Machine Duplication brings more to the game than Card Trooper, then, I see no reason why Machine Duplication should stay banned. Machine Duplication at 3. Card Trooper at 1. Trooper at 1 cannot cause any harm to the game with Machine Duplication at 3. My mistake; I seem to have read "Magic Cylinder" as "Machine Duplication", and thought you made the swap. Well, in that case, why 1 Trooper instead of 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I have questions. Just curious to hear the reasons: Exodia the Forbidden OneWave Motion CannonImperial Iron Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 why 1 Trooper instead of 2? What benefits would Trooper offer at 2 instead of 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabris Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Some points of contention: Banned: Arcana Force XXI - The World, Armed Samurai - Ben-Kei, Chieratech Fortress Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, X - Saber Airbellum Limited: Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Chain Strike, Giant Trunade, Gravity Bind, Heavy Storm, Level Limit - Area B, Marshamallon, Mirror Force, Spirit Reaper Semi-Limited: Destiny Hero - Malicious Them much.Request Machine Duplication justification. Before you mention Card Trooper' date=' I submit that neither card is a problem on its own, and Machine Duplication brings much more to the game than the extra copy or two of that generic floater would.[/quote'] Boot-Up Soldier - Dread Dynamo?I have questions. Just curious to hear the reasons: Exodia the Forbidden OneWave Motion CannonImperial Iron Wall Exodia: It makes simple drawin' dangerous. Iron Wall: OTKs with Plaguespreader and Quillbolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 why 1 Trooper instead of 2? What benefits would Trooper offer at 2 instead of 1? That is not the question. The question is whether 2 Trooper damages the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I have questions. Just curious to hear the reasons: Exodia the Forbidden OneWave Motion CannonImperial Iron Wall Tabris covered Exodia and IIW properly. Wave Motion Cannon. OTKs. Some points of contention: Banned: Arcana Force XXI - The World' date=' Armed Samurai - Ben-Kei, Chieratech Fortress Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, X - Saber Airbellum Limited: Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Chain Strike, Giant Trunade, Gravity Bind, Heavy Storm, Level Limit - Area B, Marshamallon, Mirror Force, Spirit Reaper Semi-Limited: Destiny Hero - Malicious Them much[/quote'] The World. Can only be used as a Lockdown while offering no benefits. Ben Kei. Can only be used to OTK without offering any benefits to the game. Chimeratech Fortress Dragon. Type killer that can also be an easy beatstick. Darklord Zerato. Turns all in-hand DARKs into Raigeki. Raigeki = bad for game. EEV. Type killer. Dark Gaia. OTKs. Airbellum. It's either this or Rescue Cat. Rescue Cat contributes more to the game therefore, Airbellum must go. The Fool, Reaper and Marshmallon. Promotes Stall. At 3, an opponent basically has to pack their Deck full of monster removal and in turn, don't have a win condition (one that isn't banworthy might I add). Chain Strike. Interaction. At 1 it cannot do this. At 2 it can and at 3, basically the same as if it were at 2 but much more consistently. Trunade and Heavy Storm. Punishes reckless S/T overextension. Mirror Force. Punishes reckless overextension. At 0, overextension can occur on recklessly without problems. At 3, Aggro gets murdered. LLAB, Gravity Bind. Refer to Reaper/Marshmallon/Fool but with S/T removal in place of Monster removal. Malicious. Self-interaction. At 2, that interaction is restricted without rendering the card useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 question about 6 cards (these don't have any limitation) seace fire gold sarcophagus magician of faith scapegoats ojama trio disk commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 question about 6 cards (these don't have any limitation) seace fire gold sarcophagus magician of faith scapegoats ojama trio disk commander Magician of Faith. Banworthy targets are gone so I see no reason why she should be at a number other than 3. Gold Sarcophagus. What is so banworthy or limitworthy about being able to get a card from the deck at the cost of having to wait 2 turns? If the effect was instant then it would be banworthy. Ceasefire. I didn;t think that one through 100%. At 3 I think it will cause problems. At 1, it can in a way serve as a means of punishing opposing overextension without costing the opponent the game with just 3 or 4 cards. Scapegoat. I see no problems with Scapegoat. Ojama Trio. All-Out Attacks, Battle Mania and Final Attack Orders are all banned so I don't see why this needs to be anywhere on the list. Disk Commander. A debatable card. The skilless generic revival (Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, Call of the Haunted) are all banned so you are just left with weenie revival (Limit Reverse, Graceful Revival) and themed revival (Fear Monger, Zombie World and the Zombie Revival). Also, with the banworthy win conditions banned (Exodia, Dark Armed Dragon), I see no reason why this needs list attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I added other 3 cards to my question :) ..... unlike the last 2 banlists I saw... I have to admit..this one seems...... fair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Covered the other 3 cards in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list. Reasoning for Cyber Dragon, Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x? Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai? Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike? Resoning for DDV and EEV? Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot? Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/ Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/ Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list. Reasoning for Cyber Dragon' date=' Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x? Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai? Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike? Resoning for DDV and EEV? Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot? Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/ Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/ Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that.[/quote'] Cyber Dragon. Over-aggressive beatstick that rewards bad play. Cyber End. So Metamorphosis can be at 3. What is wrong with IRS? Chain Strike. I have already explained. DDV and EEV. Both are powerful type killers. ARA is balanced. Demise was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Card Destruction. Splashable draw power with a reasonable cost. Cathedral. Make Trap Monsters more playable. What is the problem with that? D.D. Warrior Lady. 1-for-1 removal with legs. Fissure and Smashing Ground. Balanced 1-for-1 removal. Foolish Burial. Why the hell shouldn't it be at 3? Since when was dumping a monster a banworthy or Limit-worthy offense? And Painful Choice is superbanworthy for many reasons so don't bring that into the discussion. Gold Sarcophagus. Already explained. NS Grand Mole. Ultimate Offering was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Offering promotes reckless overextension so that goes. Ojama Trio. Already explained. Scapegoat. What is the problem with generating monster tokens again? SoRL. Temporary Stall. What is wrong with that? T.T. It has an acceptable activation requirement. Give me appropriate reasoning and I'll rethink it. Dustshoot. It has activation requirements and a restricted target range. What is wrong with that? Phantom of Chaos. I have eliminated the banworthy targets for it. Why should it be a problem now? Dandylion. Since when was token generating banworthy? And Gorz is not a part of this. He is banworthy for other reasons. Necroface. I need to see concrete evidence as to why it is a problem because I dont see one. I also fixed that little typo. Magician of Faith and Mask of Darkness. I have already explained Magician of Faith so you should be able to draw the same conclusion with Mask of Darkness from that. Let me know if I missed anything. I'm tired here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordtyson Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 seems fair i can go for exodia,DAD,GYZAR,JD and NORLER being banned but what is up with COSR and warrior lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I could make sutch an awesome Ritural deck with this list.That, Or a 'Fun with Uria' deck XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler should be banned, all it does is OTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Roxas Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 So what would the meta be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 So what would the meta be? fair play removing some of the most powerful cards from the actual meta. judgement dragon: I would have to say about D.D. warrior lady, that its a 1 for 1 but take in concideration that not all monsters are worth the same and my reasoning kinda tells me that people will want to abuse this one... and if I think of it, it is inferno recless summon- searchable... and removed from play monsters are harder to get back than monsters returned to your hand (like grandmole). about scapegoats, I think you can make an easy tribute for cannon soldier, ammazon archer, and plasma, and the arcana forces EX.(light & dark)I always wanted them to be at 3 for that burn deck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logmon1 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Breaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Fool' date=' Reaper and Marshmallon. Promotes Stall. At 3, an opponent basically has to pack their Deck full of monster removal and in turn, don't have a win condition (one that isn't banworthy might I add).[/quote'] They don't promote stall anymore then "Random Beatstick" or "Heavy Defense Mode" monster do. If you fill your deck with 1900 attack beatsticks and rush into a 2000 defense wall, it too is promoting stall. And what of Random Beatsticks? If I ran Blue Eyes while everyone ran Dark Magician, my Blue Eyes White Dragon can't, and for the most part, wouldn't be destroyed by battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler should be banned' date=' all it does is OTK.[/quote'] Agreed. Banned. Breaker? Breaker can destroy a Spell or Trap and run over a weaker monster (and there are plenty of them) or attack for 1/5 damage. I do not see that as good for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 how is the treeborn that bad of a card to be banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I find it funny how you banned Fortress to try to save Machines when at the same time you killed Machines with this list. Reasoning for Cyber Dragon' date=' Jinzo, and Cyber End pl0x? Reasoning for lack of blatant OTK cards like Inferno Reckless Summon while banning Ben-Kai? Reasoning for Limiting Chain Strike? Resoning for DDV and EEV? Reasoning for unlimiting Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Brain Control, Card Destruction, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Gold Sarcophagus, Magician of Faith, Mask of Darkness, Mind Crush, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Phantom of Chaos, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Swords of Revealing Light, Torrential Tribute, and Trap Dustshoot? Gold Sarcophagus at 3? =/ Phantom of Chaos at 3? =/ Also, you've got JD on banned and Unlimited, might want to fix that.[/quote'] Cyber Dragon. Over-aggressive beatstick that rewards bad play. Going second is bad play? I don't see how it's such a huge problem at 1. Cyber End. So Metamorphosis can be at 3. Sounds good. What is wrong with IRS? Batteryman OTK, Athena + C-Transformation + IRS + Any Fairy OTK. Chain Strike. I have already explained. DDV and EEV. Both are powerful type killers. Type killers? Because S/Ts are a Type that's on the brink of extinction right? As for 1500- monsters, they don't kill Types that much more than any other Type to be said to specifically seek out and kill monsters of a certain Type. ARA is balanced. Demise was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Of course, didn't mean to dispute that one.It is after all on my list. xD Card Destruction. Splashable draw power with a reasonable cost. Too easily abused. Too powerful in Dark World. Cathedral. Make Trap Monsters more playable. What is the problem with that? Eh, suppose it's okay with Exodia out. D.D. Warrior Lady. 1-for-1 removal with legs. Those're points for supporting the argument of DDWL being a good card. Not for it being balanced. Fissure and Smashing Ground. Balanced 1-for-1 removal. Costless. They should stay Limited. Foolish Burial. Why the hell shouldn't it be at 3? Since when was dumping a monster a banworthy or Limit-worthy offense? And Painful Choice is superbanworthy for many reasons so don't bring that into the discussion. Zombies love this list. Gold Sarcophagus. Already explained. Any card in the Deck is limit-worthy at the very least. 2 turns is too small a cost to change this. NS Grand Mole. Ultimate Offering was the only thing stopping this from being at 3. Offering promotes reckless overextension so that goes. If you have more monsters than your opponent, Grand Mole will force your opponent to overextend or lose. Ojama Trio. Already explained. What about Ultimate Tyranno and Big Bang Shot/Meteor Crush/Final Attack Orders? Scapegoat. What is the problem with generating monster tokens again? There are four of them. Too much versatility. Shouldn't be at 3. SoRL. Temporary Stall. What is wrong with that? Limiting the Fool and Unlimiting this is pro. T.T. It has an acceptable activation requirement. Give me appropriate reasoning and I'll rethink it. T.T. is Dark Hole. Your opponent Summoning a monster isn't "an acceptable activation requirement." Dustshoot. It has activation requirements and a restricted target range. What is wrong with that? The effect you're getting out of it. Phantom of Chaos. I have eliminated the banworthy targets for it. Why should it be a problem now? It's a LV4 with the effect of any non-banned monster, too easily abused, and there's the matter of ODL and LDD. Dandylion. Since when was token generating banworthy? And Gorz is not a part of this. He is banworthy for other reasons. Not banworthy, just not threeworthy. The Tokens can be generated by sending this to the Grave in any way, including milling, in which case this is a +2. If it was field restricted and the Tokens couldn't be Tributed ever I'd agree, but as it is, I don't. Creature Swap and E-Con should be banned/limited respectively if Dandy and Scape are gonna be at 3-a-piece. Necroface. I need to see concrete evidence as to why it is a problem because I dont see one. Necromill OTK. I also fixed that little typo. Good. =D Magician of Faith and Mask of Darkness. I have already explained Magician of Faith so you should be able to draw the same conclusion with Mask of Darkness from that. MoF copies any non-banned Spell's effect in the game. It's worth the FLIP effect. Too much so. Let me know if I missed anything. I'm tired here. Jinzo and Mind Crush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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