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Prove to me that Makyura the Destructor should be banned.


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[spoiler=Deck List' date= exodia.]1|Db1|Makyura the Destructor

3|Ptdn|Armageddon Knight

3|Ast|Emissary of the Afterlife

1|Lob|Exodia the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Left Arm of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Left Leg of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Right Arm of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Right Leg of the Forbidden One

2|Ioc|Manticore of Darkness

1|Sdj|Sangan

3|Mrl|Upstart Goblin

2|Lon|Card of Safe Return

3|Sd3|Reload

2|Sdrl|Foolish Burial

3|Dp07|Hand Destruction

3|Fet|Good Goblin Housekeeping

3|Ske|Jar of Greed

3|Pp01|Legacy of Yata-Garasu

3|Pgd|Reckless Greed

 

 

 

[spoiler=First test, FTK.] (11:11:15 PM) Game Reset!

(11:15:17 PM) Vampire Karl loaded their deck (40 in Deck, 0 in extra)

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:23 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:26 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:15:27 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:15:29 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Foolish Burial

(11:15:32 PM) Vampire Karl is looking at their deck

(11:15:42 PM) Vampire Karl is still looking at their deck. This will repeat every 10 seconds, until they are done

(11:15:52 PM) Vampire Karl is still looking at their deck. This will repeat every 10 seconds, until they are done

(11:15:56 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Makyura the Destructor

(11:15:56 PM) Vampire Karl put Makyura the Destructor from their deck into play

(11:15:57 PM) Vampire Karl stopped looking at the Deck

(11:15:57 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled their deck

(11:15:58 PM) Vampire Karl put Makyura the Destructor into the graveyard

(11:15:59 PM) Vampire Karl put Foolish Burial into the graveyard

(11:16:03 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Jar of Greed

(11:16:04 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:05 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:05 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:06 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:06 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:07 PM) Vampire Karl put Jar of Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:08 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:09 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:11 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reckless Greed

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reckless Greed

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:13 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:15 PM) Vampire Karl put Reckless Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:15 PM) Vampire Karl put Reckless Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:31 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:16:32 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:34 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:16:36 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:37 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:39 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:43 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Jar of Greed

(11:16:43 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:45 PM) Vampire Karl put Jar of Greed into the graveyard

(11:17:02 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Card of Safe Return

(11:17:03 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reload

(11:17:10 PM) Vampire Karl put Emissary of the Afterlife from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:12 PM) Vampire Karl put Armageddon Knight from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:14 PM) Vampire Karl put Right Leg of the Forbidden One from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:16 PM) Vampire Karl put Emissary of the Afterlife from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:18 PM) Vampire Karl put Right Arm of the Forbidden One from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:21 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:24 PM) Vampire Karl put Reload into the graveyard

(11:17:32 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Foolish Burial

(11:17:36 PM) Vampire Karl is looking at their deck

(11:17:43 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Manticore of Darkness

(11:17:43 PM) Vampire Karl put Manticore of Darkness from their deck into play

(11:17:44 PM) Vampire Karl stopped looking at the Deck

(11:17:44 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled their deck

(11:17:45 PM) Vampire Karl put Manticore of Darkness into the graveyard

(11:17:46 PM) Vampire Karl put Foolish Burial into the graveyard

(11:17:48 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Manticore of Darkness (from hand)

 

 

This honestly took no effort to make. Also, there ARE other otk combos out there regardless of Exodia. All you need is one of them. This probably isnt even the best build and I FTKed with it.

 

your exodia deck is doing it wrong.

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[spoiler=Deck List' date= exodia.]1|Db1|Makyura the Destructor

3|Ptdn|Armageddon Knight

3|Ast|Emissary of the Afterlife

1|Lob|Exodia the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Left Arm of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Left Leg of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Right Arm of the Forbidden One

1|Lob|Right Leg of the Forbidden One

2|Ioc|Manticore of Darkness

1|Sdj|Sangan

3|Mrl|Upstart Goblin

2|Lon|Card of Safe Return

3|Sd3|Reload

2|Sdrl|Foolish Burial

3|Dp07|Hand Destruction

3|Fet|Good Goblin Housekeeping

3|Ske|Jar of Greed

3|Pp01|Legacy of Yata-Garasu

3|Pgd|Reckless Greed

 

 

 

[spoiler=First test, FTK.] (11:11:15 PM) Game Reset!

(11:15:17 PM) Vampire Karl loaded their deck (40 in Deck, 0 in extra)

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:15:18 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:23 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:24 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:15:26 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:15:27 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:15:29 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Foolish Burial

(11:15:32 PM) Vampire Karl is looking at their deck

(11:15:42 PM) Vampire Karl is still looking at their deck. This will repeat every 10 seconds, until they are done

(11:15:52 PM) Vampire Karl is still looking at their deck. This will repeat every 10 seconds, until they are done

(11:15:56 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Makyura the Destructor

(11:15:56 PM) Vampire Karl put Makyura the Destructor from their deck into play

(11:15:57 PM) Vampire Karl stopped looking at the Deck

(11:15:57 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled their deck

(11:15:58 PM) Vampire Karl put Makyura the Destructor into the graveyard

(11:15:59 PM) Vampire Karl put Foolish Burial into the graveyard

(11:16:03 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Jar of Greed

(11:16:04 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:05 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:05 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:06 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:06 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:07 PM) Vampire Karl put Jar of Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:08 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:09 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:11 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reckless Greed

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reckless Greed

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:12 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:13 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:15 PM) Vampire Karl put Reckless Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:15 PM) Vampire Karl put Reckless Greed into the graveyard

(11:16:31 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Upstart Goblin

(11:16:32 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:34 PM) Vampire Karl put Upstart Goblin into the graveyard

(11:16:36 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Legacy of Yata-Garasu

(11:16:37 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:39 PM) Vampire Karl put Legacy of Yata-Garasu into the graveyard

(11:16:43 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Jar of Greed

(11:16:43 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:16:45 PM) Vampire Karl put Jar of Greed into the graveyard

(11:17:02 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Card of Safe Return

(11:17:03 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Reload

(11:17:10 PM) Vampire Karl put Emissary of the Afterlife from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:12 PM) Vampire Karl put Armageddon Knight from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:14 PM) Vampire Karl put Right Leg of the Forbidden One from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:16 PM) Vampire Karl put Emissary of the Afterlife from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:18 PM) Vampire Karl put Right Arm of the Forbidden One from their hand to the top of the deck.

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled the deck

(11:17:19 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:20 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:21 PM) Vampire Karl drew a card

(11:17:24 PM) Vampire Karl put Reload into the graveyard

(11:17:32 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Foolish Burial

(11:17:36 PM) Vampire Karl is looking at their deck

(11:17:43 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Manticore of Darkness

(11:17:43 PM) Vampire Karl put Manticore of Darkness from their deck into play

(11:17:44 PM) Vampire Karl stopped looking at the Deck

(11:17:44 PM) Vampire Karl shuffled their deck

(11:17:45 PM) Vampire Karl put Manticore of Darkness into the graveyard

(11:17:46 PM) Vampire Karl put Foolish Burial into the graveyard

(11:17:48 PM) Vampire Karl has put down a Manticore of Darkness (from hand)

 

 

This honestly took no effort to make. Also, there ARE other otk combos out there regardless of Exodia. All you need is one of them. This probably isnt even the best build and I FTKed with it.

 

your exodia deck is doing it wrong.

 

Because FTKing is "DOOING IT RONG!!!!1!!1!!1111!!"

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Okay' date=' so let's ban Flint, Flint Lock, or Morale Boost.

 

Let's ban Plaguespreader Zombie or Imperial Iron wall.

 

There's probably at least 5 OTK decks that this makes consistant. Do I really have to go out and name them all?

[/quote']

 

Imperial Iron Wall is banworthy.

 

Imperial Iron Wall is debatable.

 

Okay' date=' fine, then it gives Chain Burn too much advantage! Chain Strike is not banworthy..

[/quote']

 

Chain Strike is Limit-worthy, however. With Accumulated Fortune banned and Chain Strike back to 1, no more chainburn problems.

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Accumulated Fortune is not a problem unless Makyura is unbanned.

 

You can't use that as an argument for every single card that Makyura breaks. If makyura breaks it' date=' ban it? Not.

[/quote']

 

Accumulated Fortune is already close to being a Trap version of Pot of Greed in an improved format, where many currently Limited cards, such as Scapegoat, are at 3 where they belong. Furthermore, its only real use is in Chainburn - a deck whose level of skill amounts to "play the cards in your hand and win".

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dont think it should be banned

(has similiar effect as jetroid)

 

Hell No...this is a many times better...

as I said this card is banned coz' date=' it allows trap cards to gain a Spell card versatility plus is own trap card function letting you play Trap cards any time you need them...

[/quote']i said similiar not the same you moron

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dont think it should be banned

(has similiar effect as jetroid)

 

Hell No...this is a many times better...

as I said this card is banned coz' date=' it allows trap cards to gain a Spell card versatility plus is own trap card function letting you play Trap cards any time you need them...

[/quote']

 

Good job, you read the card. Sadly, you forgot to show that the card effect was an actual problem.

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Okay' date=' arguing any further is pointless. I'm heading to work now.

 

Give me an improved version of what you think the ban list should be and I'll make an FTK deck with makyura.

[/quote']

 

Posting a complete banlist? That would spoil my fun.

 

However, you are unlikely to be using anymore cards that I would consider banworthy, unless you happen to choose one of the FTK's that actually does require list attention anyhow. The Morale Boost combo that you mentioned earlier does not require list attention, so you may as well use that.

 

Give me an improved version of what you think the ban list should be

 

He's done this before' date=' it resulted in inter-board chaos.

[/quote']

 

That wasn't a real banlist, though.

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MMM...how banworthy is "Ultimate Offering"...and why?...if you can answer me this I can complete and idea...I have...about how banworthy Makyura is...

 

Ultimate Offering is entirely banworthy. It does nothing but support OTK's, whether they involve Honest, Black Ptera, or mindless swarm.

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First of all thanks...you always are really helpful...

 

Now I got it...as "Ultimate Offering" and "Makyura the Destructor" works in similar form, they break the original rules letting you Normal Summon more than one per turn...which is impossible in other way (except by double summon) and Letting you play trap card during any moment of the game, with the versatility of both Spell and Trap cards at the same time. But the main difference...is what each of this card do and work for, i'll limit "ultimate offering" explanation to what Crab has just say, but in the case of Makyura it can damage the game giving a new and more powerfull gameplay for Trap cards of any kind. If we consider that the function of trap cards is disrupt the game with powerful effects, is fair that they have the backdraw of have to be set and all you have to do to play trap cards...

Makyura the destroyer should be banned then because of the incredible number of combos that this only card can generate, which as much as the number of existing trap cards...and also don't forget how easy this card can be send and be back from graveyard which make this card really abusable...

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First of all thanks...you always are really helpful...

 

Now I got it...as "Ultimate Offering" and "Makyura the Destructor" works in similar form' date=' they break the original rules letting you Normal Summon more than one per turn...which is impossible in other way (except by double summon) and Letting you play trap card during any moment of the game, with the versatility of both Spell and Trap cards at the same time. But the main difference...is what each of this card do and work for, i'll limit "ultimate offering" explanation to what Crab has just say, but in the case of Makyura it can damage the game giving a new and more powerfull gameplay for Trap cards of any kind. If we consider that the function of trap cards is disrupt the game with powerful effects, is fair that they have the backdraw of have to be set and all you have to do to play trap cards...

Makyura the destroyer should be banned then because of the incredible number of combos that this only card can generate, which as much as the number of existing trap cards...and also don't forget how easy this card can be send and be back from graveyard which make this card really abusable...

[/quote']

 

First of all, breaking the rules of the game is not in and of itself a problem - especially since the vast majority of cards with effects do that anyhow. Cards are sent to the Graveyard when destroyed; Macro Cosmos breaks this rule. Spells are activated from the hand; Ojamagic breaks this rule. The deck is face-down; Convulsion of Nature breaks this rule. Monsters can attack only once per turn; Mataza the Zapper breaks this rule. Normal Summoning a high-level monster requires Tributes; Swift Gaia the Fierce Knight breaks this rule. And so on.

 

Incidentally, there are many cards that break the one-Normal-Summon-per-turn rule: Double Summon, Super Double Summon, Gemini Summoner, Chain Summoning, and so on. The problem is not the concept of breaking this rule but rather the manner in which Ultimate Offering does it.

 

Yes, Makyura the Destructor does increase the versatility of Trap Cards with which it is used. However, it has several drawbacks. First of all, Makyura has no effect other than to offer this minor speed boost. While that may not sound like much of a drawback, remember that this means Makyura cannot pay for itself.

 

To dump it in the Graveyard, you either need to allow it to be destroyed by battle - an annoying condition that somewhat hampers the versatility Makyura supposedly offers - or send it to the Graveyard by an effect or as a discard cost or Tribute - in which case you must have already made significant plays on the turn in which you plan to use Makyura's effects, and which also suggests that support could be useful. This detracts from the freedom that Makyura offers; work needs to be done to earn that freedom.

 

Then, consider what Trap Cards do. As the name implies, many of them are designed to respond to the opponent's actions during their turn, as with Dimensional Prison or most Counter Traps, and Makyura can only help them by making them immune to Spell/Trap removal - and even then, only if you can somehow dump Makyura during your opponent's turn before you need to use the Trap. Other Traps have effects like those of Jar of Greed and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast - some of which might be questionable if they could universally be activated from the hand immediately (although Back to Square One isn't terribly useful), but which are balanced by the work needed to use Makyura's effect. And even then, you're just getting the same effect, albeit a turn sooner.

 

Yes, it generates combos. Yes, it gives some versatility. Yes, it can be recycled. However, none of these qualities make it worthy of the banhammer.

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nobody is mentioning decks like simochi burn...

 

 

makyura is a problem because of the combos that can be pulled just by sending it to the grave, and instead banning a bunch of cards like reckless greed or gift card, that are from average to bad, it's better to ban only 1 card... the problem card...

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nobody is mentioning decks like simochi burn...

 

That's probably because Simochi Burn is largely irrelevant here.

 

makyura is a problem because of the combos that can be pulled just by sending it to the grave' date=' and instead banning a bunch of cards like reckless greed or gift card, that are from average to bad, it's better to ban only 1 card... the problem card...

[/quote']

 

Remind me how Gift Card is a problem when and only when used alongside Makyura. It seems to have slipped my mind.

 

Besides, as fun as it is to talk about banning mass legions of cards to save Makyura, we only need to ban one - Chick the Yellow. Remember that Cathedral of Nobles already takes care of Accumulated Fortune, and nothing else is a sufficient problem to warrant action.

 

Besides, if a thousand OTK-only/lucksack cards needed to be banned in order to revive one balanced card with competitive non-OTK uses, such an exchange would easily be worthwhile. That is why Metamorphosis can return.

 

Makyura should be banned because it kills the utility of Black-Winged Magician

 

Warrior Dai Grepher kills the utility of Celtic Guardian. Ban that too.

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