Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok, I'm not going to copy and paste a ban list and add suggestions. Base this thread off of the current banlist. I will include my changes in here. I will provide reasoning if needed, but please do the same. Newly Banned CARD OF SAFE RETURNCHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGONCHIMERATECH OVERDRAGONCRUSH CARD VIRUSCYBER-END DRAGONCYBER-TWIN DRAGONDARK ARMED DRAGONDECK DEVASTATION VIRUSDEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDONGLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUSGORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESSLIMITER REMOVALMONSTER REBORNRETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONTREEBORN FROGULTIMATE OFFERING Newly Limited ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOLBREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIORCALL OF THE HAUNTEDCHAIN STRIKEEMERGENCY TELEPORTLYLA, LIGHTSWORN SORCERESSNECROFACEX-SABER AIRBELLUMNewly Semi-Limited DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS Newly Unlimited ADVANCED RITUAL ARTBOOK OF MOONCYBER DRAGOND.D. WARRIOR LADYFOOLISH BURIALFUTURE FUSIONGRAVITY BINDJUDGMENT DRAGONMAGICIAN OF FAITHMAGICAL STONE EXCAVATIONMANTICORE OF DARKNESSMASK OF DARKNESSMETAMORPHOSISMONSTER GATEMYSTICAL SPACE TYPHOONOVERLOAD FUSIONRAIZA THE STORM MONARCHREASONINGROYAL DECREESUMMON PRIESTTHE TRANSMIGRATION PROPHECY Not Sure Where to PlaceACCUMULATED FORTUNETRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 You forgot banning Judgment Dragon. It rivals Dark Armed Dragon in power and is, therefore, very banworthy. Also, I'm not so sure about Necroface or Demise, but Cyber Dragon CANNOT go back to 3. It should stay at 1. It is too powerful at 3 because it is a 2100 ATK monster that can Special Summoned at no cost when you have no monsters and the opponent has at least 1. That is pretty powerful, based on the fact that you can't find Level 4 monsters with that strength without a negative effect paired with it. Also, the fact that this monster is special summoned by its effect lets it be tributed for a Monarch or something more powerful. I personally don't think it was the Chimeratech Fusions making it powerful. I'm not too sure of Future Fusion being put back up to 3, mainly because there were quite a few other Fusion monsters in which ditching their fusion material causes a problem, e.g., Five-Headed Dragon ditching 5 powerful Dragons into the grave or 5 Level 3 dragons for Cyberdarks. Also, I think Emergency Teleport should also be Limited or Banned. It sends out Krebons or Psychic Commander WAY too fast for Synchro Summoning. Its combo with Malicious is very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok' date=' I'm not going to copy and paste a ban list and add suggestions. Base this thread off of the current banlist. I will include my changes in here. I will provide reasoning if needed, but please do the same. Newly Banned CARD OF SAFE RETURNCHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGONCHIMERATECH OVERDRAGONCRUSH CARD VIRUSCYBER-END DRAGONCYBER-TWIN DRAGONDARK ARMED DRAGONGLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUSGORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESSLIMITER REMOVALMONSTER REBORN[b']REASONINGRESCUE CAT[/b]RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONTREEBORN FROGULTIMATE OFFERING Newly Limited ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOLCHAIN STRIKELYLA, LIGHTSWORN SORCERESS Newly Semi-Limited BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIORDESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS Newly Unlimited ADVANCED RITUAL ARTBOOK OF MOONCYBER DRAGOND.D. WARRIOR LADYFOOLISH BURIALFUTURE FUSIONGRAVITY BINDMAGICIAN OF FAITHMAGICAL STONE EXCAVATIONMANTICORE OF DARKNESSMASK OF DARKNESSMONSTER GATEMYSTICAL SPACE TYPHOONOVERLOAD FUSIONRAIZA THE STORM MONARCHROYAL DECREESUMMON PRIESTTHE TRANSMIGRATION PROPHECY Not Sure Where to Place DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDONNECROFACE I demand explanations for the bolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why did you Limit Lyla and Semi-Limit Breaker? As for where to place Demise. It is ban worthy because of the Demise OTK. It also stops a perfectly balanced card from being at 3 without damaging the game. That card being Advanced Ritual Art. I would also like to know why Judgment Dragon isn't banned. It is banworthy for much the same reasons as Dark Armed Dragon. The Deck dedication does not in any way balance it. Cyber Dragon should be banned. It is an overaggressive beatstick that rewards bad play and can be tributed for a Monarch or be used as Synchro fodder or attack over almost any if not any Level 4 or lower monster. Also, why ban Reasoning? And why arent the other 2 Virus cards banned? They are ban worthy for much the same reasons as Crush Card Virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Newly Banned CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON^But thats Konami's favorite card^ Oh wait..... Also, This list is alot better then the current one.Its a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok' date=' I'm not going to copy and paste a ban list and add suggestions. Base this thread off of the current banlist. I will include my changes in here. I will provide reasoning if needed, but please do the same. Newly Banned CARD OF SAFE RETURNCHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGONCHIMERATECH OVERDRAGONCRUSH CARD VIRUSCYBER-END DRAGONCYBER-TWIN DRAGONDARK ARMED DRAGONGLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUSGORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESSLIMITER REMOVALMONSTER REBORN[b']REASONING[/b] - Mainly because of the ability to easily Synchro Summon with it. If played right, you could get out Synchros with this card faster than you could with Emergency Teleport.RESCUE CAT - It's either this or Summon Priest, and I think that this card has a cost that is much easier to fulfill and much less damage. For the mere cost of Tributing this, you can get out Goyo, Brionac, or any other Level 6 or lower Synchro Monster. It, like Reasoning, makes Synchro Summoning too easy.RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONTREEBORN FROGULTIMATE OFFERING Newly Limited ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOLCHAIN STRIKELYLA, LIGHTSWORN SORCERESS - She's much easier to use than Breaker. I mean, not only does she have more ATK, she can destroy a Spell or Trap more easily than Breaker, and she provides free mill. I realize that 100 ATK more doesn't make a big difference, but there's that, the fact that it's easier to destroy a Spell or Trap Card with her effect, and the free mill that, in my opinion, makes this card superior to Breaker. Newly Semi-Limited BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR - This one seems rather ridiculous, but I thought that it might be a nice choice. I'm not really comfortable with placing this at three, but I don't feel it needs to be limited or banned either. This seems like the best place for it. Especially with Gravity Bind and Future Fusion at three. Lyla gets priority, but Breaker's priority is only placing a counter. Still, he's 1900 with a counter, so sometimes he could be more useful than Lyla. I'm open to suggestions about where to place this, but its current location seems like the best choice.DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS Newly Unlimited ADVANCED RITUAL ARTBOOK OF MOONCYBER DRAGON - So you get a 2100 ATK monster? With cards like Oppression and Bottomless Trap Hole, Cyber Dragon is prone to destruction easily. However, I'm not saying that it's should be unlimited because it is counterable. Not only is it easily counterable, it's only 2100 ATK. Vice Dragon, on the other hand, is DARK, and can be extremely powerful with cards like Crush Card Virus. Again, I'm open to suggestions.D.D. WARRIOR LADYFOOLISH BURIALFUTURE FUSIONGRAVITY BINDMAGICIAN OF FAITHMAGICAL STONE EXCAVATIONMANTICORE OF DARKNESSMASK OF DARKNESSMONSTER GATEMYSTICAL SPACE TYPHOONOVERLOAD FUSIONRAIZA THE STORM MONARCHROYAL DECREESUMMON PRIESTTHE TRANSMIGRATION PROPHECY Not Sure Where to Place DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDONNECROFACE I demand explanations for the bolded. Why did you Limit Lyla and Semi-Limit Breaker? As for where to place Demise. It is ban worthy because of the Demise OTK. It also stops a perfectly balanced card from being at 3 without damaging the game. That card being Advanced Ritual Art. I would also like to know why Judgment Dragon isn't banned. It is banworthy for much the same reasons as Dark Armed Dragon. The Deck dedication does not in any way balance it. Cyber Dragon should be banned. It is an overaggressive beatstick that rewards bad play and can be tributed for a Monarch or be used as Synchro fodder or attack over almost any if not any Level 4 or lower monster. Also' date=' why ban Reasoning? And why arent the other 2 Virus cards banned? They are ban worthy for much the same reasons as Crush Card Virus.[/quote'] I'll be honest, the other two Virus cards slipped my mind. Before I just place them on the list, explain why they are ban worthy for reasons similar to those that justify the banning of Crush Card Virus. EDIT: As for Judgment Dragon, it's theme based. While it is good, possibly even better than Dark Armed Dragon, I'm reluctant to ban it because of the fact that it relies on a specific theme to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Future Fusion shouldn't be at 3. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Future Fusion shouldn't be at 3. :\ Why? It's only limit-worthy because of Chimeratech Overdragon. Banning one card to get back two seems like a good deal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why did you Limit Lyla and Semi-Limit Breaker? As for where to place Demise. It is ban worthy because of the Demise OTK. It also stops a perfectly balanced card from being at 3 without damaging the game. That card being Advanced Ritual Art. I would also like to know why Judgment Dragon isn't banned. It is banworthy for much the same reasons as Dark Armed Dragon. The Deck dedication does not in any way balance it. Cyber Dragon should be banned. It is an overaggressive beatstick that rewards bad play and can be tributed for a Monarch or be used as Synchro fodder or attack over almost any if not any Level 4 or lower monster. Also' date=' why ban Reasoning? And why arent the other 2 Virus cards banned? They are ban worthy for much the same reasons as Crush Card Virus.[/quote'] I'll be honest, the other two Virus cards slipped my mind. Before I just place them on the list, explain why they are ban worthy for reasons similar to those that justify the banning of Crush Card Virus. EDIT: As for Judgment Dragon, it's theme based. While it is good, possibly even better than Dark Armed Dragon, I'm reluctant to ban it because of the fact that it relies on a specific theme to be successful. For DDV, it may have a harder to achieve activation requirement than CCV, but like CCV, it kills monsters with a certain ATK range while making them unusable for a certain period of time like CCV. For EEV, simple. It is an overpowered type killer. It destroys a certain group of card while making it unusable for a certain period of time. Future Fusion shouldn't be at 3. :\ Chimeratech Overdragon is the only thing stopping this from being at 3. With Chimeratech Overdragon banned, there is no reason why this shouldnt be at a number less than 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why did you Limit Lyla and Semi-Limit Breaker? As for where to place Demise. It is ban worthy because of the Demise OTK. It also stops a perfectly balanced card from being at 3 without damaging the game. That card being Advanced Ritual Art. I would also like to know why Judgment Dragon isn't banned. It is banworthy for much the same reasons as Dark Armed Dragon. The Deck dedication does not in any way balance it. Cyber Dragon should be banned. It is an overaggressive beatstick that rewards bad play and can be tributed for a Monarch or be used as Synchro fodder or attack over almost any if not any Level 4 or lower monster. Also' date=' why ban Reasoning? And why arent the other 2 Virus cards banned? They are ban worthy for much the same reasons as Crush Card Virus.[/quote'] I'll be honest, the other two Virus cards slipped my mind. Before I just place them on the list, explain why they are ban worthy for reasons similar to those that justify the banning of Crush Card Virus. EDIT: As for Judgment Dragon, it's theme based. While it is good, possibly even better than Dark Armed Dragon, I'm reluctant to ban it because of the fact that it relies on a specific theme to be successful. For DDV, it may have a harder to achieve activation requirement than CCV, but like CCV, it kills monsters with a certain ATK range while making them unusable for a certain period of time like CCV. For EEV, simple. It is an overpowered type killer. It destroys a certain group of card while making it unusable for a certain period of time. Future Fusion shouldn't be at 3. :\ Chimeratech Overdragon is the only thing stopping this from being at 3. With Chimeratech Overdragon banned' date=' there is no reason why this shouldnt be at a number less than 3.[/quote'] EEV is practically useless. There's barely any good DARK monsters with 2500+ ATK, and you wouldn't want to Tribute any good ones that you did have out. Dark Armed Dragon and Darklord Zerato, two of the good DARK monsters with 2500+ ATK, can take care of Spells and Traps without having to Tribute themselves. I will ban Deck Devastation Virus, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 RESCUE CAT - It's either this or Summon Priest, and I think that this card has a cost that is much easier to fulfill and much less damage. For the mere cost of Tributing this, you can get out Goyo, Brionac, or any other Level 6 or lower Synchro Monster. It, like Reasoning, makes Synchro Summoning too easy. X-Saber Airbellum is in this combo too ya' know, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 RESCUE CAT - It's either this or Summon Priest' date=' and I think that this card has a cost that is much easier to fulfill and much less damage. For the mere cost of Tributing this, you can get out Goyo, Brionac, or any other Level 6 or lower Synchro Monster. It, like Reasoning, makes Synchro Summoning too easy.[/quote'] X-Saber Airbellum is in this combo too ya' know, There's no justifiable reason to ban a Level 3 Beast-Type Tuner monster with 1600 ATK that can make your opponent discard a card when it inflicts Battle Damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Because it lets you dump into your Graveyard way too selectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Because it lets you dump into your Graveyard way too selectively. So does Foolish Burial. Foolish Burial isn't banworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Because it lets you dump into your Graveyard way too selectively. Foolish Burial, Armageddon Knight, Dark Grepher and E-Hero Prisma all feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 If you're dumping for 5 Headed Dragon you can dump 5 with one card. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 If you're dumping for 5 Headed Dragon you can dump 5 with one card. :\ Give me an example of a situation where dumping five Dragon-Type monsters could give you some sort of unfair advantage that you couldn't get with something like Foolish Burial or Armageddon Knight? Before you ask, yes, I know that Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon can Summon from the Graveyard. Still, no one is going to make a Dragon Deck and use three Future Fusion. Dragon Decks would run Allure of Darkness and Trade-In. With draw power like that, you probably won't be able to use three Future Fusion. You'd draw into a lot of your Dragon-Type monsters, and Future Fusion would become a dead draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 If you're dumping for 5 Headed Dragon you can dump 5 with one card. :\ Since when was dumping 5 Dragon-Type Monsters ban worthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why isn't Magician of Faith banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Had I the time I would think of a better argument but LIGHT Heroes work this too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why isn't Magician of Faith banned? With the ban worthy Spell Cards banned, there's no real reason to leave Magician of Faith banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 By the way, you banned Cyber Twin and Cyber End, but didn't unban Metamorphosis. Any particular reason? REASONING - Mainly because of the ability to easily Synchro Summon with it. If played right' date=' you could get out Synchros with this card faster than you could with Emergency Teleport.[/color'] "If played right"? God forbid we reward players for playing well. Also, Synchro Summoning relies on having monsters that add up exactly the right level. Reasoning allows your opponent to deny you a specific level, and therefore a specific sum. Also, Synchro Summoning relies on having exactly one Tuner monster - or, given the right Extra Deck, at least one Tuner monster and at least one non-Tuner monster. Reasoning makes it uncertain whether you will receive a Tuner or a non-Tuner. Also, if your deck does not run Tuners of a variety of different levels, your opponent can easily stop you from getting any Tuners at all. Also, there are loads of ways to spend two cards to get one Synchro Monster without requiring any prior setup. Reasoning makes Synchro Summoning at least this expensive, and isn't even fully reliable. I notice that you haven't banned any other such cards. RESCUE CAT - It's either this or Summon Priest' date=' and I think that this card has a cost that is much easier to fulfill and much less damage. For the mere cost of Tributing this, you can get out Goyo, Brionac, or any other Level 6 or lower Synchro Monster. It, like Reasoning, makes Synchro Summoning too easy.[/color'] You are being too narrow-minded. It's not either this or Summon Priest. You are neglecting the third option. LYLA' date=' LIGHTSWORN SORCERESS[/b'] - She's much easier to use than Breaker. I mean, not only does she have more ATK, she can destroy a Spell or Trap more easily than Breaker, and she provides free mill. I realize that 100 ATK more doesn't make a big difference, but there's that, the fact that it's easier to destroy a Spell or Trap Card with her effect, and the free mill that, in my opinion, makes this card superior to Breaker. First of all, Lyla does not have more ATK than Breaker - at least not in practical terms. If your monster attacks before using its effect, then Breaker has 1900 ATK to Lyla's 1700. If your monster uses its effect before attacking, then Breaker has 1600 ATK while Lyla cannot attack at all - and, with only 200 DEF, is just waiting to get run over by the nearest Mokey-Mokey. Second of all, on the turn she is Summoned, Lyla only destroys a Spell or Trap "more easily" than Breaker if she was Special Summoned. This implies one of two things: either you're running Lightlords, in which case she's merely decent theme support, or you've used a generic Special Summon effect like Reasoning, Monster Gate, or Summon Priest to get her out, in which case the price balances out the far-from-fabulous reward. Third of all, the underlying problem with Breaker was that he not only breaks a Spell/Trap but also then proceeds to swing for 1/5 LP. Lyla eliminates this problem with her inability to attack after using her effect. Sixth and lastly, nothing you have said does anything to show that Lyla is a problem for the game at 3 - and even less of what you have said shows that Lyla is a problem for the game at 3 but provides some benefit at 1. You have merely attempted to explain why you would rather deck her than Breaker. BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR - This one seems rather ridiculous' date=' but I thought that it might be a nice choice. I'm not really comfortable with placing this at three, but I don't feel it needs to be limited or banned either. This seems like the best place for it. Especially with Gravity Bind and Future Fusion at three. Lyla gets priority, but Breaker's priority is only placing a counter. Still, he's 1900 with a counter, so sometimes he could be more useful than Lyla. I'm open to suggestions about where to place this, but its current location seems like the best choice.[/color'] Translation: you had no clue where this should go, so you just chose a completely arbitrary location because it felt good to you. CYBER DRAGON - So you get a 2100 ATK monster? With cards like Oppression and Bottomless Trap Hole' date=' Cyber Dragon is prone to destruction easily. However, I'm not saying that it's should be unlimited because it is counterable. Not only is it easily counterable, it's only 2100 ATK. Vice Dragon, on the other hand, is DARK, and can be extremely powerful with cards like Crush Card Virus. Again, I'm open to suggestions.[/color'] Cyber Dragon's problem is that it is essentially a completely generic beatstick that consistently Special Summons itself for free and tramples over the majority of monsters or swings for 1/4 LP. The result of Cyber Dragon's presence is that defensive play becomes invalidated. This does not just apply to pure Stall, although the ability of the opponent to easily flood the field in a single turn does weaken removal-forcers such as The Fool and Gravity Bind; it also applies to pretty much every other deck that isn't hyper-aggro, such as those that rely on Flip Effects. As for Vice Dragon: Watapon can be extremely powerful with cards like Pot of Greed. Clearly, the fact that Vice Dragon combos with a card that you already banned makes it far more dangerous. Also, better ban Gearfried; he's too strong with Butterfly Dagger - Elma. >_> At any rate, Vice Dragon's low ATK makes it EDIT: As for Judgment Dragon' date=' it's theme based. While it is good, possibly even better than Dark Armed Dragon, I'm reluctant to ban it because of the fact that it relies on a specific theme to be successful.[/quote'] Dark Armed Dragon is theme-based. It requires DARKs. DARKs, like Lightlords, are a set of cards united by some property outside of the card lore and stats; in one case, the attribute, and in the other case, the name. DARK may be a bigger theme than Lightlords, but it is still a theme of sorts; the basic principle of some property designating each card in the game as being "in this theme" or "not in this theme" remains. As such, you are faced with two options: either admit that requiring some sort of theme support does not automatically balance a card, or create some completely arbitrary designation about when a theme is too big. Oh, and by the way, you banned Gyzarus. Just in case it slipped your mind, he's themed too. If you're dumping for 5 Headed Dragon you can dump 5 with one card. :\ First of all, a big of themed graveyard-prepping support is not going to damage the game. Second of all, the big advantage of cards like Foolish Burial is that you can dump the card you need dumped. With Future Fusion, you can dump more cards, but you are unlikely to be able to take advantage of them all. Third of all, Future Fusion can do the same thing at 1. Should it be banned, or did you arbitrarily decide that 3 is too many but 1 is somehow just right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why isn't Magician of Faith banned? It's a FLIP that has incredibly low ATK and gives you back a Spell Card. With Nobleman of Crossout semi-limited (which I should change), Magician of Faith stands no chance at being used competitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Shocker Android Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 This list is missing Dark Dive Bomber. Rescue cat is fine banned airbellum isn't the only problem. You are forgetting GB samnite, test tiger, CB amethyst cat, even the wicked worm beast. Future fusion should be at least limited. Five-Headed Dragon (specially with REDMD), Elemental Hero Absolute Zero, Superalloy Beast Raptinus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Rescue cat is fine banned airbellum isn't the only problem. You are forgetting GB samnite' date=' test tiger, CB amethyst cat, even the wicked worm beast.[/quote'] Care to explain how those other cards you've listed are problems? Future fusion should be at least limited. Five-Headed Dragon (specially with REDMD)' date=' Elemental Hero Absolute Zero, Superalloy Beast Raptinus...[/quote'] Again, give some justification for why it is a problem when used with these cards, and then gives some justification why it magically stops being a problem when it cannot be used in multiples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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