RyanAtlus Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 This could also be used for Stalling I guess...What about Gemini Monsters?SS=1/2NS=1/4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Missed this comment @ first glance. I find it hilarious how you and Chevalier keep tossing around "Gokaplant" as a proven top-level plant build. Now there's a deck that's REALLY untested' date=' even Black Garden has been more notable at jumps than that deck.[/quote'] Untested by who, you? Gokaplant is Tier 2. Test it, or play against. If the person who is using GkaP isn't as bad as per say, Orochi, you should see how it outshines every Plant Decks except DAD Plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 What being searchable can't do for Black Garden is make it faster while it's on the field Faster while it's on the field? It halves the attack the moment it's summoned, what more do you want? Halve all monster in opponents hand, deck and graveyard? I can guarantee any Deck consisting of or based on Black Garden would lose to Tele-DAD, horribly at that, easily eight to nine out of ten times. I can guarantee Black Garden would lose 9 times out of 10 to Chaos, Exchange of the Spirit, Diamond Dude turbo, DAD Return, possibly Lightsworn, possibly Zombies, etc etc. No one here is claiming it the second coming of Christ or something. It's a decent fun card, and it doesn't have to beat Tele-DAD or be used in Tele-DAD to be written off as a bad card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiba Aisu Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Crab Helmet. For heaven's sake. Get a life. /EDIT: PikaPerson01: If it can't compete with top tier Decks, it's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 /EDIT: PikaPerson01: If it can't compete with top tier Decks' date=' it's bad.[/quote'] It can't compete against a deck like Tele-DAD because Tele-DAD uses bannable cards, the same way that no other deck could stand up against Chaos because Chaos had scores of bannable cards in it that helped in it's consistency and game breaking swings. In a more balanced environment, plants can do well against several of the other "top tier" decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarlet Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 What being searchable can't do for Black Garden is make it faster while it's on the field Faster while it's on the field? It halves the attack the moment it's summoned' date=' what more do you want? Halve all monster in opponents hand, deck and graveyard?[/quote']If it's effect was writen as a continuous one, as opposed to trigger one you would see King Tiger Wanghu suddenly take an intrest in gardening..... so that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orochi Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 it's amusing how chevalier uses long sentences and fancy words but in fact... he says nothing...Well this looks like a promising post. well' date=' thank you... black garden uses a well known strategy that warrior decks applied very well: ATK variations' date=' the difference is that is applied by a field spell instead a continous spell... field spells has a lot more advantage than continous spells... [/quote']That paragraph on its own is enough to prove how bad you are but let's continue, and for all those Crab Helmets out there, I'll even explain why it's a fail-point. and that paragraph made you get out of the shell and say something more than "blablabla you're bad blablabla biased blablabla suck" and that's an advance... To be brief' date=' Black Garden is a card that is an infinite Shrink going both ways and fills the field with tokens. Black Garden is a Field Spell, and thus, making it searchable by 'Terraforming' and such. What being searchable can't do for Black Garden is make it faster while it's on the field, make it easier to control, and make it effective enough to work against any competitive Deck. [/quote'] to be searcheable doesn´t make several card to be fast on field, is a pro but not a reason to be godly... I can guarantee any Deck consisting of or based on Black Garden would lose to Tele-DAD' date=' horribly at that, easily eight to nine out of ten times. [/quote'] i can guarentee that any deck consisting on 3 solemn judgements would lose against tele-DAD, your point is?? Furthermore' date=' BG gives you room to have your monsters big if you play them before you play it. As it seems apparent from above comments, people seem to think that they're going to have 'BG, Lonefire, Solemn, Solemn, Pollinosis, Pollinosis' as they're opening hand. No. You wont. [/quote'] biased argument, no deck can get a godly hand so this is no argument to say a card is bad... in fact is a problem of the deck, not the card... Plants have no draw power at all. inb4 someone says COSR. same as before' date=' that is a deck problem, not an argument to say a card is bad... bad deckbuilds don't justify playability of the cards... Black Garden will end up being a dead draw because by the time you play it and have everything set up, your opponent will have swarmed the field with boss monsters and will barely even notice the Field Spell. heavy storm, PWWB, stratos, and almost any card will be a dead draw when opponent swarmed the field, again biased argument... the only cards that won't be dead draws could be cards that can change the duel course like vortex, mirror or drawing card to search for other cards... To conclude' date=' Black Garden is not a good card this format because of its lack of speed to set up its play and how ineffective it is by turn 2. [T']his comment on how BG works with Warriors is extremely comical. who said that GB works with warriors?? the comment was that BG uses similar strategy as warriors, who maindeck cards like shrink, rush recklessly and continous ones like burden of the mighty or A forces... and those 2 also lacks of speed, but are still used... now' date=' the presumptions of mr. chevalier that BG sucks is just based on the draw ratio, [/quote']No.... No they're not. yes, they are... otherwise edit the comment "people seem to think that they're going to have 'BG, Lonefire, Solemn, Solemn, Pollinosis, Pollinosis' as they're opening hand. No. You wont"... see? funny when comes from a card that can be searchable' date=' also with the chance of resurrect a monster, also with the chance of locking opponent's field and adding more plants to your side to use with pollinosis, tytannial, nettles and another effects, and ALSO with the high chance of making opponent monsters weaker, and that can save your monsters from cards like bottomless trap hole and crush card virus... creating new strategies like blackest garden, teleplant, plant DAD and garden control... pretty good for a "sucky" card...[/quote'] Well, I went searching in the mine of bad comments, and what a gem I found indeed. I'll skip what I've already been over and go straight to your deck lists.Blackest Garden = Bad DeckTelePlant = Unless it's TeleDAD Plants, Bad.Plant DAD = I'm assuming it has Tele, Good. Unfortunately, This deck doesn't run BG, which is why it does so well.Garden Control = It's goo- no it's bad. hmmm, hard to rebate, specially when our dear close-minded friend only uses teleDAD to say what cards are bad... and skipped the other things that i said on this paragraph... and' date=' based on the opinion of this painfully bad player, Orochi is unintelligent, no one bothers to see what I'm saying past the first sentence because they're so dumbfounded at my stupidity, and all my arguments are as lively and interesting as cattle grazing. [/quote'] Fixed the only thing you must fix is your lack of good arguments, specially when you base your argument on insults of the quality as players of the people who rebate you... you're not a god of the cards either, and your previous post shows that, specially when you have to be pressed to state an argument to justify your blabbering... and keeps blabbering... so please, troll less, use the brain more, just for a change... 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~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 More unintentional Plant type-killers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaos Pudding Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 If it can't compete with top tier Decks' date=' it's bad.[/quote'] I confirm and understand that Treeborn Frog is a bad card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 How "good" or "bad" a card is depends upon its design. Its effectiveness in the current meta merely determines its "current playability". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Missed this comment @ first glance. I find it hilarious how you and Chevalier keep tossing around "Gokaplant" as a proven top-level plant build. Now there's a deck that's REALLY untested' date=' even Black Garden has been more notable at jumps than that deck.[/quote'] Untested by who, you? Gokaplant is Tier 2. Test it, or play against. If the person who is using GkaP isn't as bad as per say, Orochi, you should see how it outshines every Plant Decks except DAD Plants. It is absolutely untested on the SJC level. Based on showings at high-level competitions, Garden Control>>>>>>GokaPlant. When was the last time GokaPlant top 16nd? (You say it's equal to Gadgets which have top 16nd in the past.) Lets face it, all decks have a bad phase before people find the right build. Housten, DAD lost to the six Samurai because nobody had figured out the "return" part. In SJC Baltimore, Teledad took a beating from Gladiator Beasts, it just wasn't good enough yet. Trying to say that because McHale's build fails (you can find builds 10x better just by searching the deck section) means nothing. He was the first guy to try it out, we'll see what the future holds. It should be noted as well that BG-based decks have had much more notable showings than the traditional swarm-based builds people were taking to SJCs before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 GokaPlant won't be taken to SJC because it's Tier 2, and that's where it will stay. There's really no reason to run it over TeleDAD. Nothing in the foreseeable future will change to make it good enough to go father. Right now, it's as good as Gadgets, but Gadgets are anti-meta and anti-meta evolves, so naturally, against Tele-DAD Gadgets > GokaPlant. GokaPlant is , though, still better than a BG Deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Evidence please? Black Garden decks have notable SJC showings. GokaPlant has none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I already posted why it's not taken to Jumps. Garden got to Jump because he's a MetaGame Writer. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Maybe you missed it but people besides McHale used garden at the last Jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Did they top 16/8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No. But neither did GokaPlant, Little City, Gadgets, or any of the numerous other decks you said were superior. In fact Black Garden players had better records then any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 BG has a better record than Gadgets? Since when?People can test BG at SJC if they'd like. That's their decision. BG hype was started by McHale and has drifted into the minds of players who don't know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orochi Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 why chevalier reminds me a lot our fella hotfoilcard?? and if i understand right, according to chevalier thunder king raioh, royal oppersion, banisher of radiance or burden of the mighty sucks because they're not teleDAD material... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 BG decks had a better record than gadgets at SJC San Fransisco. The point is, it's a deck archetype that's only been around for two SJCs and has already made a much more powerful impression than say, the Little City you so favor, and certainly leagues above GokaPlant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaos Pudding Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 So which specific part of Black Garden's effect renders it a bad card? I'm asking only because the only reasoning you've given behind it being a bad card is that it "takes up needed space". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 and if i understand right You didn't. BG decks had a better record than gadgets at SJC San Fransisco. The point is' date=' it's a deck archetype that's only been around for two SJCs and has already made a much more powerful impression than say, the Little City you so favor, and certainly leagues above GokaPlant.[/quote'] Alright, I thought you said BG has done better than Gadgets in general. So which specific part of Black Garden's effect renders it a bad card? I'm asking only because the only reasoning you've given behind it being a bad card is that it "takes up needed space". Read Cyber's and my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaos Pudding Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Read Cyber's and my post. You and Cyber said nothing about the badness or goodness of Black Garden. You were referring to its playability, specifically in this format. As Crab said, "playability" is reliant on the format, while "goodness" or "badness" is reliant on the card itself, much in the same way that "banworth" is reliant on card itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 ....If it helps you sleep better, it has low playability in this format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaos Pudding Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 ....If it helps you sleep better' date=' it has low playability in this format.[/quote'] So you acknowledge that Black Garden is not, in fact, a bad card? Also, it probably won't help me sleep better. I've got a bit of flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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