Never ask why something "was/is" banned/Limited/Semi-Limited.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Instead, ask why something "should be" or "should remain" banned/Limited/Semi-Limited. More often then not, player reasoning makes more sense than whatever "logic" people can make up as to why Konami did what they did.

 

In this vein, discuss Magician of Faith, Metamorphosis, Destiny Hero - Disc Commander, and any other card that has at least semi-questionable placement on a ban list of Konami's creation.

[CrabHelmet]

To give Konami some credit, their bans are generally accurate, with only a small handful of questionable ones. Of course, this is because they use their banhammer so conservatively - they prefer Semi-Limiting the card or its support rather than outright banning it - so it's still not a good thing at all.

[Phantom Roxas]

Magician of Faith gave players the chance to get any Spell Card they want, but the meta has changed so much that Flip Effect monsters are normally laughed at, Ryko being one of scarce few exceptions.

 

They same applies with Metamorphosis, meaning that Fusions aren't used much anymore, except if you have Prisma or if you're using a Gladiator Beast Deck. Metamorphosis, if unbanned, would allow Fusions to reclaim some of the spotlight Synchros took from them.

 

Of your three examples, Destiny Hero - Disk Commander has the most reason to stay banned. It is quite splashable, given Konami's love of DARK cards. While it does not have the self-revival effect that Zombies and cards like Treeborn Frog and Samsara Lotus have, it still functions as a great draw engine/tribute fodder.

[Megaworm]

Imperial Order should stay banned due to the fact that it will make problems for the meta, since it runs solely on spell cards. Being able to negate them entirely is too powerful to some, but even in my opinion. it's still vulnerable to Jinzo, Royal Decree and card destroyers.

[The Dark One]

Magician of Faith is a highly questionable ban because it's pretty unlikely for it to survive being flipped.

 

Therefore, it's not a +1 or anything, all it does is allow you access to a toolbox of spells, and only spells that you have already used earlier in the game, at the expense of suffering through the slowness that is inherent in flip-effect monsters. Is it a bad thing that your oponent was able to use another copy of Reinforcement of the Army, Mystical Space Typhoon, or what-have-you? It shouldn't. They might well have just drawn a second copy of one of those cards (MST does not deserve to be limited). Instead, they drew Magician of Faith, and thus have to wait a turn for their spell instead of activating it immediately. Furthermore, they are giving their opponent warning, and therefore the spell they recover may not even be useful to them on the following turn.

 

Now, there are cards that are easily worth i to recover, such as Monster Reborn or Heavy Storm. Monster Reborn can't be counted, since it's already a broken card, and its benefits so greatly outweigh its cost (none) that it is still worth it to have to wait a turn for it, and not necessarily even get it due to the possibility of Magician of Faith being subjected to removal.

 

Heavy Storm is a power card, but one that has justification for its ability to force players to minimize over-extension. You're giving your opponent advance warning that a Heavy Storm may be coming, so they have plenty of time to get rid of what spells and traps they have, in which case it becomes a relatively dead card. Obviously, you will have it for later in the game, but now they know, so they won't make any foolish over-extensions.

 

Furthermore, that adds an additional level to the game. Your opponent can't just mindlessly set 5 traps even after you use your heavy because they know that there is the possibility that you may recover it and 5 traps are less likely to all be activated in time than 1 or 2 or even 3 are.

[werewolfjedi]

Magician of Faith is a highly questionable ban because it's pretty unlikely for it to survive being flipped.

 

Therefore' date=' it's not a +1 or anything, all it does is allow you access to a toolbox of spells, and only spells that you have already used earlier in the game, at the expense of suffering through the slowness that is inherent in flip-effect monsters. Is it a bad thing that your oponent was able to use another copy of Reinforcement of the Army, Mystical Space Typhoon, or what-have-you? It shouldn't. They might well have just drawn a second copy of one of those cards (MST does not deserve to be limited). Instead, they drew Magician of Faith, and thus have to wait a turn for their spell instead of activating it immediately. Furthermore, they are giving their opponent warning, and therefore the spell they recover may not even be useful to them on the following turn.

 

Now, there are cards that are easily worth i to recover, such as Monster Reborn or Heavy Storm. Monster Reborn can't be counted, since it's already a broken card, and its benefits so greatly outweigh its cost (none) that it is still worth it to have to wait a turn for it, and not necessarily even get it due to the possibility of Magician of Faith being subjected to removal.

 

Heavy Storm is a power card, but one that has justification for its ability to force players to minimize over-extension. You're giving your opponent advance warning that a Heavy Storm may be coming, so they have plenty of time to get rid of what spells and traps they have, in which case it becomes a relatively dead card. Obviously, you will have it for later in the game, but now they know, so they won't make any foolish over-extensions.

 

Furthermore, that adds an additional level to the game. Your opponent can't just mindlessly set 5 traps even after you use your heavy because they know that there is the possibility that you may recover it and 5 traps are less likely to all be activated in time than 1 or 2 or even 3 are.

[/quote']

 

impressive case.

 

book of flip face up. (I forget the name) makes it better than magic stone excavation.

but mst does deserve to be limited because it is a quick play. if a normal version was made, that would be perfectly fair. and there is twister, a 500 lp cost version of mst. so you get 1 free, and any number non chain, and any 500 cost-ers. that would be fair

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Magician of Faith is a highly questionable ban because it's pretty unlikely for it to survive being flipped.

 

Therefore' date=' it's not a +1 or anything, all it does is allow you access to a toolbox of spells, and only spells that you have already used earlier in the game, at the expense of suffering through the slowness that is inherent in flip-effect monsters. Is it a bad thing that your oponent was able to use another copy of Reinforcement of the Army, Mystical Space Typhoon, or what-have-you? It shouldn't. They might well have just drawn a second copy of one of those cards (MST does not deserve to be limited). Instead, they drew Magician of Faith, and thus have to wait a turn for their spell instead of activating it immediately. Furthermore, they are giving their opponent warning, and therefore the spell they recover may not even be useful to them on the following turn.

 

Now, there are cards that are easily worth i to recover, such as Monster Reborn or Heavy Storm. Monster Reborn can't be counted, since it's already a broken card, and its benefits so greatly outweigh its cost (none) that it is still worth it to have to wait a turn for it, and not necessarily even get it due to the possibility of Magician of Faith being subjected to removal.

 

Heavy Storm is a power card, but one that has justification for its ability to force players to minimize over-extension. You're giving your opponent advance warning that a Heavy Storm may be coming, so they have plenty of time to get rid of what spells and traps they have, in which case it becomes a relatively dead card. Obviously, you will have it for later in the game, but now they know, so they won't make any foolish over-extensions.

 

Furthermore, that adds an additional level to the game. Your opponent can't just mindlessly set 5 traps even after you use your heavy because they know that there is the possibility that you may recover it and 5 traps are less likely to all be activated in time than 1 or 2 or even 3 are.

[/quote']

 

impressive case.

 

book of flip face up. (I forget the name) makes it better than magic stone excavation.

but mst does deserve to be limited because it is a quick play. if a normal version was made, that would be perfectly fair. and there is twister, a 500 lp cost version of mst. so you get 1 free, and any number non chain, and any 500 cost-ers. that would be fair

 

The card your thinking of is Book of Taiyou.

[CrabHelmet]

Magician of Faith is a highly questionable ban because it's pretty unlikely for it to survive being flipped.

 

Therefore' date=' it's not a +1 or anything, all it does is allow you access to a toolbox of spells, and only spells that you have already used earlier in the game, at the expense of suffering through the slowness that is inherent in flip-effect monsters. Is it a bad thing that your oponent was able to use another copy of Reinforcement of the Army, Mystical Space Typhoon, or what-have-you? It shouldn't. They might well have just drawn a second copy of one of those cards (MST does not deserve to be limited). Instead, they drew Magician of Faith, and thus have to wait a turn for their spell instead of activating it immediately. Furthermore, they are giving their opponent warning, and therefore the spell they recover may not even be useful to them on the following turn.

 

Now, there are cards that are easily worth i to recover, such as Monster Reborn or Heavy Storm. Monster Reborn can't be counted, since it's already a broken card, and its benefits so greatly outweigh its cost (none) that it is still worth it to have to wait a turn for it, and not necessarily even get it due to the possibility of Magician of Faith being subjected to removal.

 

Heavy Storm is a power card, but one that has justification for its ability to force players to minimize over-extension. You're giving your opponent advance warning that a Heavy Storm may be coming, so they have plenty of time to get rid of what spells and traps they have, in which case it becomes a relatively dead card. Obviously, you will have it for later in the game, but now they know, so they won't make any foolish over-extensions.

 

Furthermore, that adds an additional level to the game. Your opponent can't just mindlessly set 5 traps even after you use your heavy because they know that there is the possibility that you may recover it and 5 traps are less likely to all be activated in time than 1 or 2 or even 3 are.

[/quote']

 

impressive case.

 

book of flip face up. (I forget the name) makes it better than magic stone excavation.

 

That is a 2-card combo that uses up your Normal Summon and leaves you with an extremely tiny beatstick in Attack Position, waiting to be attacked for massive damage.

 

but mst does deserve to be limited because it is a quick play. if a normal version was made' date=' that would be perfectly fair. and there is twister, a 500 lp cost version of mst. so you get 1 free, and any number non chain, and any 500 cost-ers. that would be fair

[/quote']

 

Why does everyone seem incapable of constructing an argument that isn't just "THIS IS THE CARD'S EFFECT, THEREFORE CARD SHOULD BE AT 0/1/2/3"? Parroting the text on the card does not equate to concocting a logical chain of reasoning.

 

And it gets even worse when you idiots don't even read the cards inquestion properly.