Dead or Alive: Semi-Limit

[Exiro]

 

A NecroMill deck' date=' uses Inferno Tempest and Grinder Golem to deck out your opponent, with 3 Necroface cards in your deck.

 

The combo is:

 

1st: Summon Grinder Golem, and use the token to attack Golem causing you to take 3000 LP of damage.

 

2nd: Taking 3000 LP of damage lets you activate Inferno Tempest, then with Tempest effect, remove 20 of your opponents monsters (assuming they have that many), and your 3 Necrofaces.

 

This will take away 40 cards from your opponent. (15 cards from Necroface, 19 cards from Inferno Tempest and 6 cards from the opening draw and the draw of his first turn (you can't perform this OTK on the very first turn because you need to attack).[/quote']

 

With 3 Necrofaces, you opponent would need 19 Monsters in the deck after drawing 6 cards. According to my calculations, he'd need to be running 23 monsters in a 40 card deck for this to work.

Cards drawn * Monsters in deck / Cards in deck = Average # of monsters in his opening hands.

(6 * 23) / 40 = 3.45

Since there is now 45% chance for him to draw a fourth monster, we'll round this up to 4.

23 - 4 = 19

Even with 3 Necrofaces, this isn't very efficient, but it still invalidates decks that do need to be running this many monsters.

 

With 2 Necrofaces, it's 5 more monsters (24) that you need to mill.

Then, he'd need to be running 27 monsters and he'll draw 4 monsters on average, leaving him with the needed 24 monsters.

(6 * 27) / 40 = 4.05

And this is ignoring the 5% chance that he does draw a fifth monster, leaving him with 23 monsters in the deck.

27 - 4 = 23

 

It's pretty safe to semi-limit Necroface, because it won't damage the game in any way by only OTK'ing on decks that run 27 or more monsters.

 

Discuss.

[Lemniscate]

meh. too unwieldy.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

There's no exact way to determine if this will cause your opponent to lose or not.

 

Against n00bs this strategy would fail, causing the deck itself to have much trouble getting up there in the rounds without getting taken out.

[Guest Star]

Necroface is already semi-limited.

[CrabHelmet]

Your calculations all assume that Necroface needs to remove the opponent's entire deck from play, or everything is absolutely ruined and the combo fails. I submit that removing all but a handful of cards from the opponent's deck is still sufficient to bring victory - especially since the opponent's hand and graveyard no longer contain any monsters either. I further submit that the odds of victory increase dramatically if the opponent uses any draw or self-mill cards - and draw and self-mill are useful even in good, balanced formats.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Your calculations all assume that Necroface needs to remove the opponent's entire deck from play' date=' or everything is absolutely ruined and the combo fails. I submit that removing all but a handful of cards from the opponent's deck is still sufficient to bring victory - especially since the opponent's hand and graveyard no longer contain any monsters either. I further submit that the odds of victory increase dramatically if the opponent uses any draw or self-mill cards - and draw and self-mill are useful even in good, balanced formats.

[/quote']

Ah, but if you let things run like that you also run a risk of losing. So you'll want to have a low amount of monsters in your deck.

[CrabHelmet]

Your calculations all assume that Necroface needs to remove the opponent's entire deck from play' date=' or everything is absolutely ruined and the combo fails. I submit that removing all but a handful of cards from the opponent's deck is still sufficient to bring victory - especially since the opponent's hand and graveyard no longer contain any monsters either. I further submit that the odds of victory increase dramatically if the opponent uses any draw or self-mill cards - and draw and self-mill are useful even in good, balanced formats.

[/quote']

 

Ah, but if you let things run like that you also run a risk of losing. So you'll want to have a low amount of monsters in your deck.

 

From what I've seen, Necromill decks already tend to run a low number of monsters.

 

Plus, remember that a simple D.D.R. provides an extra five cards of RFP-mill if needed.

 

But I have a more pertinent question for you: why are you so certain that Necroface is the problem rather than Inferno Tempest?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Infernal Tempest seems banworthy as it would never be used by anyone outside of OTKs.

[Tabris]

meh. too unwieldy.

[Exiro]

But I have a more pertinent question for you: why are you so certain that Necroface is the problem rather than Inferno Tempest?

 

Good point, and actually, that card is like Reversal Quiz, Blasting the Ruins and some others; it has no competitive use outside of an OTK.

If Inferno Tempest was to be banned, would Necroface still need any kind of restriction?

[tonisanoob]

---^

 

hmm as necroface has n amazign effect

 

but i say get rid of inferno tempest and get this back at 3 ;)

 

although imo

a deck based around inferno tempest woudl kickass

 

WHO WOUDL EXPECT IT

what can any deck really do when suddenly they have NO monsters

[The Dark One]

Well.....If they're a burn varient, they could continue on as normal with their Wave-Motion Cannons and friends.

[Exiro]

Bump.