Let's talk about a little something called OTK.

[CrabHelmet]

Some, such as Magical Scientist, obviously need to be dealt with. Others, such as Butterfly Dagger - Elma plus Gearfried the Iron Knight plus *insert third card of your choice here*, also need to be dealt with, but less obviously. But then you have stuff like Sanctuary in the Sky plus Saturn plus Celestial Transformation plus Inferno Reckless Summon plus Poison of the Old Man - unwieldy combos that simply cannot be eradicated due to the sheer number of such combos and the cost to the game of losing the cards involved.

 

What determines whether an OTK requires list attention?

[Skuldur]

If it's too powerful and ends games quickly and your opponent can do next to nothing to stop it

 

eg CO's OTK before they limited Overload Fusion and Future Fusion ( I'm not saying that was the right thing to do ) It was pretty hard to stop.

[Akira]

I don't see what Konami has against OTKs.

 

Even if ARA was at 3, Tele-DAD would still kick Demise OTK's butt, especially with Stardust rendering Demise totally powerless.

 

IMO, there's nothing wrong with the concept of an OTK, it's just a different approach to the game, hell, most tier 1 decks deliver what could be considered OTKs except that they are not set in stone.

 

OTKs need attention when they heavily dominate the meta.

[Logmon1]

I don't see what Konami has against OTKs.

 

Even if ARA was at 3' date=' Tele-DAD would still kick Demise OTK's butt, especially with Stardust rendering Demise totally powerless.

 

IMO, there's nothing wrong with the concept of an OTK, it's just a different approach to the game, hell, most tier 1 decks deliver what [i']could[/i] be considered OTKs except that they are not set in stone.

 

OTKs need attention when they heavily dominate the meta.

 

Recent Demise builds are niogh even with Tele-DAD. It mainly depends on who goes first and how quick Stardust hits the field.

[tonisanoob]

3 card otks where all cards are unlimited are bad

 

unless the cards involved are highly unusable such as the morphing jar deckout lopp thingy, or if it includes a trap

 

3 card otks where not all cards needed are unlimited are also acceptable, but thats more a case of circumstance

 

4card toks where all the cards are unlimited are acceptable imo however

[Skarlet]

Mantiloop (exodia) , manticore may be on 2 but still 2 is to many concidering the ease of getting one into the graveyard with CoSR on field and one in hand, it's not that difficult

 

all in all I'd say ease and consistancy make an OTK listable, if you can consistanyly OTK with minimal difficulty the OTK should be blocked in some way in this case manticore at 1

[Orochi]

Mantiloop (exodia) ' date=' manticore may be on 2 but still 2 is to many concidering the ease of getting one into the graveyard with CoSR on field and one in hand, it's not that difficult

 

all in all I'd say ease and consistancy make an OTK listable, if you can consistanyly OTK with minimal difficulty the OTK should be blocked in some way in this case manticore at 1

[/quote']

 

 

and why not banning COSR instead punishing a perfectly balances card??

 

 

 

an OTK must be punished when performing it implies no effort, in fact a 6 card OTK with at least 2 limited cards deserves no ban...

[GenzoTheHarpist]

If you can reliably preform the OTK with a wide range of opening hands, it needs to be punished.

[Skarlet]

If you can reliably preform the OTK with a wide range of opening hands' date=' it needs to be punished.

[/quote']

 

exactly the only real need in mantiloop is 1 manticore, 1 CoSR and a way to get a second manticore in the graveyard, weatehr that's foolsih, or a card with a discard cost, a way to summon it, then loose it, theres a tonne of options

[Guest PikaPerson01]

3 card OTKs is my minimum threshold for broken OTKs, and even then afterwards it goes in a case-by-case basis.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

I'm not sure about this one but when flashing premature burial and rescue cat makes your opponent scoop there's something wrong.

 

The obvious thing is when it involves a card that's banworthy.

 

I'd say the otk should also be dealt with if it's easy to pull off. There should be a complicate mathematical algorith to calculate this so they can ban / limit / semi limit the cards involved so it becomes reasonably hard to pull to be meta friendly.

 

All otks aren't bad it also forces the opponent to have a side deck prepared for those. It's also not hard to adapt the side for an otk since they often uses game mechanics commonly used in other meta deck (mostly special summon). That also means you can use the card you side for the matchup against other deck.

[CrabHelmet]

There should be a complicate mathematical algorith to calculate this so they can ban / limit / semi limit the cards involved so it becomes reasonably hard to pull to be meta friendly.

 

Any algorithm capable of handling this job is not worth constructing.

 

All otks aren't bad it also forces the opponent to have a side deck prepared for those.

 

Removing all restrictions on guns and legalizing murder would force people to buy bulletproof vests, amongst other things. It still wouldn't be a good idea.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

There should be a complicate mathematical algorith to calculate this so they can ban / limit / semi limit the cards involved so it becomes reasonably hard to pull to be meta friendly.

 

Any algorithm capable of handling this job is not worth constructing.

 

All otks aren't bad it also forces the opponent to have a side deck prepared for those.

 

Removing all restrictions on guns and legalizing murder would force people to buy bulletproof vests' date=' amongst other things. It still wouldn't be a good idea.

[/quote']

 

I agree on the first part because it should mostly be based on the meta but still, it was just a thrown idea.

 

For the thing on legalizing murder ; nothing stops elephants from killing each other yet it's not a problem and it never happens.

[CrabHelmet]

There should be a complicate mathematical algorith to calculate this so they can ban / limit / semi limit the cards involved so it becomes reasonably hard to pull to be meta friendly.

 

Any algorithm capable of handling this job is not worth constructing.

 

All otks aren't bad it also forces the opponent to have a side deck prepared for those.

 

Removing all restrictions on guns and legalizing murder would force people to buy bulletproof vests' date=' amongst other things. It still wouldn't be a good idea.

[/quote']

 

I agree on the first part because it should mostly be based on the meta but still, it was just a thrown idea.

 

For the thing on legalizing murder ; nothing stops elephants from killing each other yet it's not a problem and it never happens.

 

Good, then the same will surely hold true for humans. Let's legalize murder.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

It could be done but we'd need major changes in our society filled with retards. Jaques Fresco has some good argument on this subject.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/jacquefresco

http://www.fbdthemovie.com/

 

And you can find more in zeitgeist.

[CrabHelmet]

[quote='Psycho Shocker Android' pid='1442628' dateline='1228715113']
It could be done but we'd need major changes in our society filled with retards. Jaques Fresco has some good argument on this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jacquefresco
http://www.fbdthemovie.com/

And you can find more in zeitgeist.
[/quote]

Ah, good. Then the only prerequisite for allowing OTK's to remain legal is to completely change the fanbase in such a way that nobody uses them.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Almost, you just have to change the game so otks don't ruin it (banlist and releasing other cards for example).

[Father Wolf]

OTK's in the meta? must kill all!