If a card like this was ever released...

[Guest Star]

....what would happen?

 

Here's the card.

 

Winged Caster

DARK

Level 1

[spellcaster / Tuner]You can discard this card during your opponent's Draw Phase to activate 1 Spell Card from your hand. This card cannot be Tributed except to pay the cost of a Trap Card.

[0/0]

 

-Is this card broken?

-Would this card affect the current Meta?

-Where would this card be placed on a good Ban List?

[「tea.leaf」]

The first effect is the best, I think.

 

Although, I can't really think of any practical applications...

 

Aren't cards that break Game Mechanics dangerous?

[CrabHelmet]

As far as I know, no existing cards allow the use of non-Quick Play Spells outside of the Main Phase.

 

It breaks the game mechanic, but I can't think of any real use for it off the top of my head.

 

What Continuous/Field/Equip Spells have negative effects in the End Phase?

[「tea.leaf」]

As far as I know' date=' no existing cards allow the use of non-Quick Play Spells outside of the Main Phase.

 

It breaks the game mechanic, but I can't think of any real use for it off the top of my head.

 

What Continuous/Field/Equip Spells have negative effects in the End Phase?

[/quote']

 

Brain Control.

 

But what advantage do you gain from playing that in your opponent's Draw Phase?

[Tabris]

-Is this card broken?

 

No. Not in the slightest. If this is used in combo with some Spell... scrutinize the Spell.

 

-Would this card affect the current Meta?

 

I don't know who benefits who activating Allure or Teleport during his opponent's turn, but I'm certainly not one of them.

 

-Where would this card be placed on a good Ban List?

 

At three.

[「tea.leaf」]

-Is this card broken?

 

No. Not in the slightest. If this is used in combo with some Spell... scrutinize the Spell.

 

-Would this card affect the current Meta?

 

I don't know who benefits who activating Allure or Teleport during his opponent's turn' date=' but I'm certainly not one of them.

 

-Where would this card be placed on a good Ban List?

 

At three.

[/quote']

 

What makes this card broken is the fact that it breaks Game Mechanics.

 

What's to keep Konami from developing some card that will abuse this to no end?

 

Hell, what's to say there isn't a card now that can combo perfectly with this?

 

Disc Commander is broken not because you can pull a crap-load of tricks with it, but because it gives too much advantage.

 

This card is inherently broken.

[Tabris]

What makes this card broken is the fact that it breaks Game Mechanics.

 

Spear Dragon, anyone?

 

What's to keep Konami from developing some card that will abuse this to no end?

 

I'm also a vigilante when it comes to future card design, but methinks such caution need not be exercised here.

 

Disc Commander is broken not because you can pull a crap-load of tricks with it, but because it gives too much advantage.

 

Disk isn't broken, because you run into trouble with running a consistent deck with a supple enough win condition.

[CrabHelmet]

What makes this card broken is the fact that it breaks Game Mechanics.

 

Are you saying that Bubble Illusion should be banned?

 

The vast majority of cards break game mechanics in some form or another. You cannot tribute the opponent's monsters; Soul Exchange break this. You cannot activate effects without paying the relevant costs; Trap of Darkness and Destiny Hero - Diamond Dude break this. Cards that are destroyed are sent to the graveyard; Macro Cosmos' date=' Dimensional Fissure, and both Banishers break this. Fusion Monsters cannot be Fusion Summoned without Polymerization; Fusion Gate and all the Miracle Fusion-esque cards break this. Fusion Monsters cannot be Fusion Summoned without the required Fusion Material Monsters; Instant Fusion and Fusion Substitute Monsters break this. Fusion Monsters cannot be Special Summoned from the Fusion Deck except by Fusion Summon; Metamorphosis and the Hex-Sealed Fusions break this. People die when they are killed; Marshmallon breaks this. Special Summons are face-up; Apprentice Magician breaks this.

 

What's to keep Konami from developing some card that will abuse this to no end?

 

Are you saying that Manticore of Darkness should be at 1 even in the absence of a card that can actually use its infinite loop, just in case another card were to be released that could do so? (Actually, this isn't quite the best example, since the Pojo metabombers would support such a policy.)

 

There is no need to ban a card just because some day, in the future, Konami might print a card that combos unacceptably with said existing card, and that said existing card would then need to be eliminated. If Rescue Cat were the culprit of Cat/Airbellum, should we have banned Rescue Cat when it was first released, just in case a card like Airbellum were to be released at some point in the future?

 

Most cards have the potential to combo unacceptably with another hypothetical card. However, until such a card is confirmed for release, throwing bans around as safety precautions is nonsensical.

 

The banlist exists to remove existing problems. There is no sense in dealing with a problem when there is no indication that said problem exists.

 

Hell' date=' what's to say there isn't a card now that can combo perfectly with this?

[/quote']

 

Go find one. If you can do so, then perhaps you can construct a logical argument in favour of banning Winged Caster. If you cannot, then you have no argument.

 

Disc Commander is broken not because you can pull a crap-load of tricks with it' date=' but because it gives too much advantage.

[/quote']

 

And this card is inherently a -1, while Disk is inherently a +2.

 

Furthermore, if Disk were not so easy to use, it would be fine. The reason it needs to be banned is that it gives so much advantage for so little effort - and the tricks that can be pulled with it are the reason that that effort is so minimal. If the only cards that could Special Summon Disk were, say, The Creator and LADD, then Disk would be fine, since its effect would not offer such large advantage for so little effort.

 

This card is inherently broken.

 

False.

[Tabris]

And this card is inherently a -1, while Disk is inherently a +2.

 

Furthermore, if Disk were not so easy to use, it would be fine. The reason it needs to be banned is that it gives so much advantage for so little effort - and the tricks that can be pulled with it are the reason that that effort is so minimal. If the only cards that could Special Summon Disk were, say, The Creator and LADD, then Disk would be fine, since its effect would not offer such large advantage for so little effort.

 

Disk isn't broken, because you run into trouble with running a consistent deck with a supple enough win condition.

[CrabHelmet]

And this card is inherently a -1' date=' while Disk is inherently a +2.

 

Furthermore, if Disk were not so easy to use, it would be fine. The reason it needs to be banned is that it gives so much advantage for so little effort - and the tricks that can be pulled with it are the reason that that effort is so minimal. If the only cards that could Special Summon Disk were, say, The Creator and LADD, then Disk would be fine, since its effect would not offer such large advantage for so little effort.[/i']

 

Disk isn't broken, because you run into trouble with running a consistent deck with a supple enough win condition.

 

I'm surprised you jumped on the Disk comment but not the Manticore comment. >_> I'm not going to argue over Disk right now, since this isn't the proper place and I have neither the time nor the energy.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Hmm...

 

The way it's written, could it circumnavigate spells that require certain conditions on the field?

 

Such as, would I be able to activate Phantasmal Martyrs despite not having... I forget the other 2 Beasts off the top of my head.

 

Or is this some random anti-Soul Exchange tech? <_<

[「tea.leaf」]

Fine, I lose. > >

[Tabris]

I accept Pojo mentality on such an eventuality, if only because it's easy to create cards that would take advantage of the Manticore loop, while not being banworthy themselves.

 

In contrast, one can't fathom a card that would be both beneficial if activated during your opponent's Draw Phase and be not banworthy.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Fine' date=' I lose. > >

[/quote']

 

It's not about winning or losing. It's about learning. ^_^

[CrabHelmet]

Hmm...

 

The way it's written' date=' could it circumnavigate spells that require certain conditions on the field?

 

Such as, would I be able to activate Phantasmal Martyrs despite not having... I forget the other 2 Beasts off the top of my head.

 

Or is this some random anti-Soul Exchange tech? <_<

[/quote']

 

Since it says to activate the Spell Card rather than its effect, I would assume that all costs and activation conditions would apply as per normal. However, I could see it being interpreted as bypassing activation conditions (but not costs). However, I would assume that a ruling would state that the Spell Card's activation conditions would need to be met (except, obviously, for the inherent it-needs-to-be-your-Main-Phase condition).

[「tea.leaf」]

Fine' date=' I lose. > >

[/quote']

 

It's not about winning or losing. It's about learning. ^_^

 

thnxbby :'3

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Since this cards only allow 1 spell to be activated I say it's perfectly balanced. If there'd be no limit on spells, you could play some sort of mantiloop burn efficiently (that's the first thing that came to my mind).

 

Just look at makyura and jetroid for traps.

[CrabHelmet]

Since this cards only allow 1 spell to be activated I say it's perfectly balanced. If there'd be no limit on spells' date=' you could play some sort of mantiloop burn efficiently (that's the first thing that came to my mind).

[/quote']

 

I am horribly confused. >_>

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Since this cards only allow 1 spell to be activated I say it's perfectly balanced. If there'd be no limit on spells' date=' you could play some sort of mantiloop burn efficiently (that's the first thing that came to my mind).

[/quote']

 

I am horribly confused. >_>

 

You discard a card to activate 1 card that "probably" could have been activated in your turn. If it said "discard this card, you can activate spell cardS from your hand..." it would be broken. Just like how makyura has no limit on how many traps you can activate the turn it's sent to the grave.

 

I'm saying that since it only lets you play 1 card, the card itself if perfectly balanced.

[Skarlet]

hmmm I dont see how it would work personaly

[CrabHelmet]

Since this cards only allow 1 spell to be activated I say it's perfectly balanced. If there'd be no limit on spells' date=' you could play some sort of mantiloop burn efficiently (that's the first thing that came to my mind).

[/quote']

 

I am horribly confused. >_>

 

You discard a card to activate 1 card that "probably" could have been activated in your turn. If it said "discard this card, you can activate spell cardS from your hand..." it would be broken. Just like how makyura has no limit on how many traps you can activate the turn it's sent to the grave.

 

I'm saying that since it only lets you play 1 card, the card itself if perfectly balanced.

 

Makyura's problem was the loop it creates with Chick, which, despite only being possible because it has no activation limit, does not indicate that the lack of such an activation limit is inherently a problem without a combination of cards capable of abusing it. That's why Cathedral of Nobles is perfectly fine (although some argue that the high levels of draw power of Jar of Greed + Legacy of Yata-Garasu + Good Goblin Housekeeping + Reckless Greed + Cathedral of Nobles is a problem, but since Spells can be activated instantly anyhow, that doesn't apply here either).

 

What had me horribly confused was what on earth you were talking about when you said that this card would facilitate "Mantiloop Burn" without a Spell limit - something that I am simply not seeing.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

end phase draw your deck and during his draw phase play all the tremendous fire / ookazi / meteor of destruction...

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Hmm...

 

The way it's written' date=' could it circumnavigate spells that require certain conditions on the field?

 

Such as, would I be able to activate Phantasmal Martyrs despite not having... I forget the other 2 Beasts off the top of my head.

 

Or is this some random anti-Soul Exchange tech? <_<

[/quote']

 

Since it says to activate the Spell Card rather than its effect, I would assume that all costs and activation conditions would apply as per normal. However, I could see it being interpreted as bypassing activation conditions (but not costs). However, I would assume that a ruling would state that the Spell Card's activation conditions would need to be met (except, obviously, for the inherent it-needs-to-be-your-Main-Phase condition).

 

Eh, that seems to be the issue though. I assume the costs still go as follows, but if it can bypass conditions... eh, even then it only makes a fun -2 one sided Cold Wave.

 

As far as I see it, there's not a lot this can get, since spells can be activated on your turn anyway. And even if during the Draw Phase, it limits you in being able to chain or something.

 

I guess if for some reason they activate Limit Reverse... on their draw phase... it's a counter to that if you have MR in hand... but there's just better ways to do it! Crow does it better! <_<

 

I think either Star's got some random card in mind that would be OD situational to pull off an OTK, or he doesn't know how a ruling works.

 

end phase draw your deck and during his draw phase play all the tremendous fire / ookazi / meteor of destruction...

 

There's a six card limit, unless you wanna run Infinite Cards now in this little combo. But even then, rather then risking putting Ookazi, Tremendous Fire, etc etc in deck and end up with inconsistent hands that are still prone to PMD and Des Wombat, you'd also have to main this little guy. CoSR, this guy, Infinite Cards, 2 Manticores, five card combo. You're better off using Exodia. <_<

[Guest Star]

My main thought was the ability to combine this with Heart of the Underdog to pull off the Exodia OTK on your first turn.

[Azure]

1. Not broken.

 

2. No it wouldn't effect the meta.

 

3. It wouldn't.