Jaden is a Canon Sue.

[Guest]

Discuss.

[Arekku_Koro]

How so?

[Guest]

He's a Mary Sue in the official canon. Therefore, he's a Canon Sue.

[Jace Beleren]

i dont get it?

[Azure]

Was is this about?

[tommers2008]

sorry but what is a canon sue..??

[Phantom Roxas]

It pretty much means Jaden wins far too much and that Kazuki Takahashi favors him a lot.

[tommers2008]

oh in that case.. AGREED...!!!

[.Digital.Simplicity.]

Lolz that is too true.

[..:Grimmjow:..]

Lol yea

[Phantom Roxas]

Wait, here we go.

 

A "canon Sue" may also refer to a character whose canon portrayal itself is seen as a "Mary Sue"' date=' rather than a character who has been altered in fan fiction. Typically, this refers to a character accused of being overly idealized or having other traits traditionally associated with fan fiction "Mary Sues", such as being "special" by having a gratuitously tragic past, unrealistic skills, or a seeming inability for the character to do wrong. Examples include Wesley Crusher and Amanda Rogers in Star Trek: The Next Generation.

[/quote']

[Megaworm]

lol Amanda Rogers.

[Professor Cobra]

He has to, he's the HERO.

[.Requiem]

No he doesn't he never lost once that means he is stupid and he pyshco enough to think cards talk.

[Guest]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

[Phantom Roxas]

No he doesn't he never lost once that means he is stupid and he pyshco enough to think cards talk.

 

Zane' date=' Kaibaman, Aster, and Yugi would all like a word with you.

 

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

[.Requiem]

I like to see them too.

[Guest]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

[___]

^Agreed.

 

And lets see.

Zane, Kaibaman, Aster, and Yugi would all like a word with you.

 

4-6 duels.

 

Out of?

 

I think about...

150+.

 

Yea.

If my record was 145/5/0 and i ran E-Heroes, i'm not sueish at all.

[Phantom Roxas]

I like to see them too.

 

*X-Fighter gets pwn'd by Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon' date=' Destiny End Dragoon, and Horahtky*

 

Unfortunately, Chimeratech Overdragon and Cyber End Dragon could not attend this pwnage due to being run by Syrus.

 

*Cyberdark Dragon kills Syrus and lets Chimeratech and CyEndra loose to obliterate what little remains of X-31 Fighter*

 

Nevermind.

 

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now), Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1, but still go defeated.

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world, that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat. Therefore, Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

 

^Agreed.

 

And lets see.

Zane' date=' Kaibaman, Aster, and Yugi would all like a word with you.

 

4-6 duels.

 

Out of?

 

I think about...

150+.

 

Yea.

If my record was 145/5/0 and i ran E-Heroes, i'm not sueish at all.

[/quote']

No he doesn't he never lost once that means he is stupid and he pyshco enough to think cards talk.

 

I was mainly referring to how the bolded was wrong.

[Guest]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now),

 

I was thinking of Atticus, if that was Alexis's brother's name.

 

Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1' date=' but still go defeated.

[/quote']

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world' date=' that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat.

[/quote']

 

Jaden lost to a Yugi-Yami team that had their entire original deck, complete with the Egyptian God Cards. Nightshroud, assuming that he (or his emissary, Trueman, who seems to be the one that actually dueled most of the people in the world) did manage to defeat Yugi, would have defeated a lone Yugi without the God Cards - or, since his deck was apparently on display, possibly even his entire original deck.

 

Therefore' date=' Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

[/quote']

 

Sueness isn't merely determined by who wins and loses.

[Phantom Roxas]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now),

 

I was thinking of Atticus, if that was Alexis's brother's name.

 

Yes, that's Atticus/Fubuki.

 

Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1' date=' but still go[b']t[/b] defeated.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

I'm basically saying that Nightshroud can defeat everyone in the entire world, including Yugi, but still lost four times, three of those times being to Jaden, two of which included using Red-Eyes, the latter even including a different REDRUM, and his third duel in which he used a very repetitive Deck, but still managed to be defeated by one of the very few Elemental Heroes that can actually OTK, and even then it does so poorly.

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world' date=' that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat.

[/quote']

 

Jaden lost to a Yugi-Yami team that had their entire original deck, complete with the Egyptian God Cards. Nightshroud, assuming that he (or his emissary, Trueman, who seems to be the one that actually dueled most of the people in the world) did manage to defeat Yugi, would have defeated a lone Yugi without the God Cards - or, since his deck was apparently on display, possibly even his entire original deck.

 

Yugi managed to defeat Yami, and his Deck most likely improved since then, as evidenced by Dimitri actually summoning both Dark Magician of Chaos and Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

 

Therefore' date=' Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

[/quote']

 

Sueness isn't merely determined by who wins and loses.

 

I suppose, but Yugi still had some sueness in him.

[Guest]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now),

 

I was thinking of Atticus, if that was Alexis's brother's name.

 

Yes, that's Atticus/Fubuki.

 

Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1' date=' but still go[b']t[/b] defeated.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

I'm basically saying that Nightshroud can defeat everyone in the entire world, including Yugi, but still lost four times, three of those times being to Jaden, two of which included using Red-Eyes, the latter even including a different REDRUM, and his third duel in which he used a very repetitive Deck, but still managed to be defeated by one of the very few Elemental Heroes that can actually OTK, and even then it does so poorly.

 

Who did he lose to, other than Jaden? I have a vague recollection of him doing something in Season 2, but I can't remember who he dueled (Zane maybe?)

 

Anyhow, it seems very likely that most of those people were defeated by Trueman rather than Nightshroud. Of course, Nightshroud is basically Trueman's boss/creator/something like that.

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world' date=' that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat.

[/quote']

 

Jaden lost to a Yugi-Yami team that had their entire original deck, complete with the Egyptian God Cards. Nightshroud, assuming that he (or his emissary, Trueman, who seems to be the one that actually dueled most of the people in the world) did manage to defeat Yugi, would have defeated a lone Yugi without the God Cards - or, since his deck was apparently on display, possibly even his entire original deck.

 

Yugi managed to defeat Yami, and his Deck most likely improved since then, as evidenced by Dimitri actually summoning both Dark Magician of Chaos and Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

 

True, but part of Yugi's defeat of Yami was that he specifically constructed his deck to counter Yami's, such as by setting up that machine combo to kill the gods (using a set of cards for so long helps you learn their weaknesses, especially since he already knew Slifer's weakness from his first match), or by removing Monster Reborn with Gold Sarcophagus to stop Yami from reviving Slifer. Yugi would never have seen Trueman's deck before.

 

Therefore' date=' Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

[/quote']

 

Sueness isn't merely determined by who wins and loses.

 

I suppose, but Yugi still had some sueness in him.

 

Yugi certainly did - he was the sort-of-reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh who saved the world from destruction and who is a gaming genius who managed to solve a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle that nobody in the last somethousand years has ever been able to complete, and who manages to reform people like Joey before going on to become the king of card games out of nowhere by channeling ancient spirits, being the chosen one from some prophesy, and having the support of his friends who inexplicably follow him everywhere despite having no real purpose, and who befriends everyone he defeats who isn't already a complete monster and who ARGH IT'S TOO PAINFUL TO GO ON

 

Nightshroud was not a Mary Sue. Merely being powerful is not sufficient to qualify for that title.

[Phantom Roxas]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now),

 

I was thinking of Atticus, if that was Alexis's brother's name.

 

Yes, that's Atticus/Fubuki.

 

Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1' date=' but still go[b']t[/b] defeated.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

I'm basically saying that Nightshroud can defeat everyone in the entire world, including Yugi, but still lost four times, three of those times being to Jaden, two of which included using Red-Eyes, the latter even including a different REDRUM, and his third duel in which he used a very repetitive Deck, but still managed to be defeated by one of the very few Elemental Heroes that can actually OTK, and even then it does so poorly.

 

Who did he lose to, other than Jaden? I have a vague recollection of him doing something in Season 2, but I can't remember who he dueled (Zane maybe?)

 

Anyhow, it seems very likely that most of those people were defeated by Trueman rather than Nightshroud. Of course, Nightshroud is basically Trueman's boss/creator/something like that.

 

He dueled Zane, thinkg that his darkness would stop the darkness he thought had possessed Zane.

 

Trueman>Nightshroud

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world' date=' that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat.

[/quote']

 

Jaden lost to a Yugi-Yami team that had their entire original deck, complete with the Egyptian God Cards. Nightshroud, assuming that he (or his emissary, Trueman, who seems to be the one that actually dueled most of the people in the world) did manage to defeat Yugi, would have defeated a lone Yugi without the God Cards - or, since his deck was apparently on display, possibly even his entire original deck.

 

Yugi managed to defeat Yami, and his Deck most likely improved since then, as evidenced by Dimitri actually summoning both Dark Magician of Chaos and Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

 

True, but part of Yugi's defeat of Yami was that he specifically constructed his deck to counter Yami's, such as by setting up that machine combo to kill the gods (using a set of cards for so long helps you learn their weaknesses, especially since he already knew Slifer's weakness from his first match), or by removing Monster Reborn with Gold Sarcophagus to stop Yami from reviving Slifer. Yugi would never have seen Trueman's deck before.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not Yugi had seen Trueman's deck before since Trueman has I-Can-Use-Any-Card-I-Want HAXORZ.

 

Therefore' date=' Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

[/quote']

 

Sueness isn't merely determined by who wins and loses.

 

I suppose, but Yugi still had some sueness in him.

 

Yugi certainly did - he was the sort-of-reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh who saved the world from destruction and who is a gaming genius who managed to solve a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle that nobody in the last somethousand years has ever been able to complete, and who manages to reform people like Joey before going on to become the king of card games out of nowhere by channeling ancient spirits, being the chosen one from some prophesy, and having the support of his friends who inexplicably follow him everywhere despite having no real purpose, and who befriends everyone he defeats who isn't already a complete monster and who ARGH IT'S TOO PAINFUL TO GO ON

 

Nightshroud was not a Mary Sue. Merely being powerful is not sufficient to qualify for that title.

 

You forgot his magical ability to use said puzzle to make any card he wants inconscicuously float to the top of his Deck. Yusei has managed to do so by unexplained reasons that can best be described by his Birthmark, but I don't know how much of 5D's you have actually watched.

 

I completely agree that Nightshroud is not a Mary Sue, since his chance to actually be a great villain failed by ultimately "dieing" just like Zorc did, only pathetically.

[Guest]

He has to' date=' he's the HERO.

[/quote']

 

The inability to write a hero that doesn't turn out to be a Mary Sue is a serious writing flaw.

 

The problem is not only his winning consistency; it is also the fact that the entire universe bends to his will. He immediately gains the respect of the elitists like Chazz and Zane, the aloof ice queen Alexis instantly develops a crush on him, his fellow students develop a rather unhealthy love for him simply because he smiles, he is the focal point of every single plan launched by every single character, he has a mysterious destiny, he's somehow the reincarnation of a thousands-of-years-old king of darkness who saved the world in the past, the only flaw he's given is that he cares too much about Jesse, he is endowed with the power of magical space aliens that he also somehow created, and by the end of it he has received vague magical powers, a new anime hairstyle, mismatched eyes, and manages to defeat a god who seems to have defeated every single other person in the entire world in duels - repeatedly. And let's not forget that everyone loves him or at least has a grudging respect for him, and he has the power to reform heartless villains simply by playing a game with them.

 

There is nothing here that isn't Suetiful.

 

He didn't reform Nightshroud. Aside from that, you're right, but he still obviously lost to Yugi.

 

By defeating Nightshroud, he managed to seal its evilness away and bring whatever-his-name-is back to normal. That's close enough.

 

But even after freeing Atticus and Yusuke Urameshi free(I'm not sure which one you're referring too right now),

 

I was thinking of Atticus, if that was Alexis's brother's name.

 

Yes, that's Atticus/Fubuki.

 

Nightshroud himself appeared after losing 3 to 1+The entire population of Earth minus 1' date=' but still go[b']t[/b] defeated.

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

I'm basically saying that Nightshroud can defeat everyone in the entire world, including Yugi, but still lost four times, three of those times being to Jaden, two of which included using Red-Eyes, the latter even including a different REDRUM, and his third duel in which he used a very repetitive Deck, but still managed to be defeated by one of the very few Elemental Heroes that can actually OTK, and even then it does so poorly.

 

Who did he lose to, other than Jaden? I have a vague recollection of him doing something in Season 2, but I can't remember who he dueled (Zane maybe?)

 

Anyhow, it seems very likely that most of those people were defeated by Trueman rather than Nightshroud. Of course, Nightshroud is basically Trueman's boss/creator/something like that.

 

He dueled Zane, thinkg that his darkness would stop the darkness he thought had possessed Zane.

 

Trueman>Nightshroud

 

Ah, that's right.

 

But Trueman has an unfair advantage, since he's automatically better because he insists on being called "Mr. T."

 

Note that since he supposedly defeated almost everyone in the world' date=' that heavily implies he managed to defeat Yugi, who Jaden himself could not defeat.

[/quote']

 

Jaden lost to a Yugi-Yami team that had their entire original deck, complete with the Egyptian God Cards. Nightshroud, assuming that he (or his emissary, Trueman, who seems to be the one that actually dueled most of the people in the world) did manage to defeat Yugi, would have defeated a lone Yugi without the God Cards - or, since his deck was apparently on display, possibly even his entire original deck.

 

Yugi managed to defeat Yami, and his Deck most likely improved since then, as evidenced by Dimitri actually summoning both Dark Magician of Chaos and Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

 

True, but part of Yugi's defeat of Yami was that he specifically constructed his deck to counter Yami's, such as by setting up that machine combo to kill the gods (using a set of cards for so long helps you learn their weaknesses, especially since he already knew Slifer's weakness from his first match), or by removing Monster Reborn with Gold Sarcophagus to stop Yami from reviving Slifer. Yugi would never have seen Trueman's deck before.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not Yugi had seen Trueman's deck before since Trueman has I-Can-Use-Any-Card-I-Want HAXORZ.

 

Nah, Trueman just happens to be the only duelist in the universe that uses more than one deck.

 

...that one guy in Yellow doesn't count. Shut up. >_>

 

Therefore' date=' Yugi and maybe even Nightshroud are Canon Sue's.

[/quote']

 

Sueness isn't merely determined by who wins and loses.

 

I suppose, but Yugi still had some sueness in him.

 

Yugi certainly did - he was the sort-of-reincarnation of an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh who saved the world from destruction and who is a gaming genius who managed to solve a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle that nobody in the last somethousand years has ever been able to complete, and who manages to reform people like Joey before going on to become the king of card games out of nowhere by channeling ancient spirits, being the chosen one from some prophesy, and having the support of his friends who inexplicably follow him everywhere despite having no real purpose, and who befriends everyone he defeats who isn't already a complete monster and who ARGH IT'S TOO PAINFUL TO GO ON

 

Nightshroud was not a Mary Sue. Merely being powerful is not sufficient to qualify for that title.

 

You forgot his magical ability to use said puzzle to make any card he wants inconscicuously float to the top of his Deck. Yusei has managed to do so by unexplained reasons that can best be described by his Birthmark, but I don't know how much of 5D's you have actually watched.

 

Nononono, you've got their cheating all wrong.

 

Yugi makes up cards as the situation requires. Look at his stuff like Berserker Soul and Ragnarok, or the one that he used to put the Dark Sanctuary ghost into Kuriboh. Those cards definitely did not exist before he needed them.

 

Jaden stacks his deck with whatever cards are needed to win.

 

Yusei magically does exactly the same thing every single duel.

 

I've seen up through the low twenties of 5D's; I think the last duel was Aki against the guy with the LV Knights. It was somewhere in the Semi-Finals, right before Yusei and Aki's duel.

 

I completely agree that Nightshroud is not a Mary Sue' date=' since his chance to actually be a great villain failed by ultimately "dieing" just like Zorc did, only pathetically.

[/quote']

 

Not only that, but he simply doesn't fit the definition of a Mary Sue. At all. >_>