Let's talk about when Type Killers become banworthy.

[CrabHelmet]

Type Killers are herein defined as cards that have an especially powerful effect against a certain category of card, to the point where the balance of this anti-support becomes questionable. Not all anti-support is considered a Type Killer; for example, Yami drains all Fairy-Type monsters of 200 ATK and DEF, but this effect is not powerful enough to make it count as a Type Killer.

 

Two good litmus tests to see whether a card that is designed to counteract a specific category of card counts as a Type Killer are to see 1) whether this effect is powerful enough to severely damage the playability of the victim category and 2) whether that card, were it made applicable to all opposing cards rather than just the victim type, would be banworthy.

 

Warrior Elimination, Last Day of Witch, and Acid Rain are excellent examples of these - each is essentially a Raigeki / Dark Hole that only works against one Type of monster. System Down goes even farther - far enough that there isn't a generic existing card powerful enough for any comparison to be made - it's an anti-theme Raigeki-except-infinitely-better. Despite this, nobody considers these cards to be banworthy.

 

Then there are the Type Killers that are not simply anti-theme versions of banned cards, but are still visibly powerful. A 3350 ATK Level 3 beatstick that only does 1350 damage when it attacks directly would be banworthy under ordinary conditions, but since Kinetic Soldier only works against Warriors, we let him stick around. Meanwhile, if Autonomous Action Unit had its cost removed and was turned into an 1800 ATK Level 4 beatstick and was given some degree of attack lock capability, we'd all think Konami had gone mad made another ridiculous blunder, but since Victoria can only be used against the opponent's Dragons, I haven't seen anyone banning it recently.

 

But Type Killers are not inherently balanced simply by being themed - or, rather, anti-themed. Consider this imaginary card:

 

Revive

[Quick-Play Spell]

Activate only while your opponent's Graveyard contains at least one Zombie-Type monster. Destroy all face-up Zombie-Type monsters your opponent controls, then remove from play all Zombie-Type monsters in your opponent's hand, Deck, and Graveyard. If at least eight monsters were removed from play by this effect, draw two cards.

 

I don't believe that anyone has the slightest doubt that such a card would deserve to be banned immediately, even though it can only be used against one decktype. Thus, it is clear that Type Killers cannot be said to be automatically balanced by the mere virtue of being Type Killers. But where exactly is the line drawn?

 

We have already begun to see banlist attacks against Type Killers, with several lists removing Nobleman of Crossout and Chimeratech Fortress Dragon from legal play for their ability to murder Flip Effects and Machines, respectively. Other bans have attacked more subtle Type Killers that don't mention a specific category of cards by name but - part of the problem with Breaker the Magical Warrior is that he is a Type Killer for Continuous Spells, Equip Spells, Field Spells, Continuous Traps, and anything else that isn't chainable, and Cyber Dragon is largely a de facto Type Killer to anything that requires a stall-heavy strategy.

 

Then there's the case where a card can be both type support and a Type Killer for the very same type - and I am here referring to serious support, not this Chimeratech Fortress Dragon nonsense which people who don't know what they're talking about claim is somehow helpful to Machine decks. Last time we discussed Fragrance Storm, everyone discussed how this was good Plant support with all the new Plant cards that give tokens to the opponent, especially since this seems to be just about the only card able to take advantage of this. What wasn't really discussed was how this also serves as a Type Killer that will obliterate Plants should they ever become meta; sided in against Plant Decks, it becomes a Soul Taker that doesn't provide 1000 Life Points and self-replaces in the hand by allowing the user to draw a card. This is probably also the case with some of the cards designed to work with Zombie World.

 

Type Killers are weak in that they often lack utility - outside of the most unbalanced format ever conceived, maindecking most Type Killers would be unthinkable. On the other hand, their ability to come out of the Side Deck for Games 2 and 3 can make it difficult for the victim deck to survive Matches. Worse yet, a few Type Killers, most notably Nobleman of Crossout, actually have utility that allows them to be used even if one is not assured of the opponent using the vulnerable card category. As such, despite their general lack of utility, Type Killers can still have a devastating impact on the game.

 

So here is my question to you: under what circumstances should a Type Killer be banned, and under what circumstances should it remain legal?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Well, Type killers will come and go depending on the Meta. I'm not sure how many, if any, are currently in use today in tournament duels, but I do know that a few were used not too long ago.

 

Here are a few of my views:

A Type Killer should probably be banned when it creates a sort of "deck lock" for the decktype, not allowing them to do any of their available strategies due to some card's effect. Warrior Elimination does a quite devastating field sweep, but there's not guaranteed advantage once it comes in hand, and it definitely wont stop you from Summoning any Warrior-Type monsters. Zombie World, on the other hand, can completely stop a deck theme cold. Not being able to Tribute is one thing, but changing your monster's Type also leaves you the inability to activate many of the cards available to you in your deck. While Zombie World can be destroyed relatively easy, there's no guarantee you'll have a way to take care of it, especially late game. Not saying that Zombie World is necessarily broken in this sense, but it can disable many decks if used correctly.

 

A Theme Killer also becomes overpowered when it creates an overwhelming card advantage, sort of like the card you posted. Being Type or Theme-specific in its targeting, these cards can have a slightly stronger effect, but if they generate a grossly massive amount of advantage, punishing your opponent for daring to run a deck that was based on Beasts or Zombies, that's just overkill. +1 even might be a stretch, but something like a guaranteed +2 seems out of the park for me.

[Orochi]

i think that type killers don't deserve ban unless they also give an extra advantage, for example a card that destroy all one-type monsters on the field and allows to swarm by itself...

 

the better example of a type killer that "could" deserve ban: tribe infecting virus (i still think that the only reason that this one was banned was to make sales for the structure decks)

[Fh-Fh]

Type Killers should never go past hand, graveyard, or field.

 

Type killers can change metas, and since everyone is afraid of sudden changes, the consider the card banworthy. However, if people see a change as to stopping something (i.e. banning DAD, stopping global warming), they are all for it. But the people who thrive on such things will obviously not approve. So when Barack Obama said we should use better resources and be less dependant on oil, people who were making money off oil protested. Since there were only 2 candidates, they probably voted for McCain. But the number of people who wanted these changes outweighed the people who didn't. There are also many other factors as to why Obama won and McCain lost, but I won't go over that.

 

So in conclusion, Yu-Gi-Oh is a lot like American Politics.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Where does Skill Drain stands in this?

[CrabHelmet]

Where does Skill Drain stands in this?

 

Skill Drain isn't a Type Killer by any means.

[tonisanoob]

ype killers are alright just so long as they arnt sencelessly overpowerd

[werewolfjedi]

I believe that for a type killer it should not have a bonus effect after killing the whole field, or go in and remove the monsters from their deck.

 

the only thing I think should go into someone's deck is something anti GB only, since they in particular retreat to the deck and when you want to stop that, you have to attack the deck.

 

so for an anti-GB card, it could have the effect:

when a gladiator beast monster is returned to the deck from the field, it is instead removed from play, then the controller of the monster must discard 1 Gladiator beast card, if they have one, from their hand to the grave.

 

and it might be fair that way.

 

but a type and a theme are two different thing technically, so to more so go on about anti type, it matters a bit on the meta and what types see play the most.

 

take tele-DAD, it uses several types: warrior, psy, dragon, and I believe a few fiends as well. going after one type here may not do much to the deck in question.

 

but if you after the spellcaster type for tempest decks however, you kill the whole deck's speed.

 

and slayer has an interesting point as well, could you kill the type by changing it? if so, then the DNA cards come into play here as well.

 

also, what about anti-attribute? the light and dark mirrors are decent examples of these. if you ran both, both tele-DAD and lightsworn would feel the effects since they focus on attributes.

 

lets take kinetic warrior and change warrior to DARK, and watch as it would get banned as soon as it was printed. but only because it drastically effects the meta of tele-DAD. but I could be wrong.

 

But I don't think so.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

The DNA cards don't work nearly as effectively as Zombie World for a few different reasons:

1. Zombie World is a Spell. Can be activated immediately.

2. It's a Field Spell, which means there are cards to search it out from the deck.

3. It stops all but Zombie-Types from being Tribute Summoned.

4. Turns monsters in the Graveyard into Zombie-Type as well, not just on the field.

[Azure]

These type killing cards are rubbish so no banning.

[Akira]

So, if your "Revive" card was exactly the same except for Reptiles instead of Zombies, would it still be banned despite having no threat whatsoever to the meta?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

These type killing cards are rubbish so no banning.

I like the reasons you gave us why they're bad.

 

For those who can't read, the reasons were:

1.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Type destroyers are really something that depend on the meta. If LS didn't exist, people probably wouldn't side Light Imprisoning Mirror.

 

Speaking of which, if one had 15 effective type killers in their deck, they could switch them in as soon as they saw what their opponent had, so for that reason, they should be banned if:

 

OP'd effect could be spread to other cards easily with something like DNA Surgery.

 

The cards gives a certain deck type absolutely no chance of winning or greatly effects the game.

 

 

These type killing cards are rubbish so no banning.

I like the reasons you gave us why they're bad.

 

For those who can't read' date=' the reasons were:

1.

[/quote']

You missed his other five:

2.

3.

4.

5. I can't play this game at all.

6.

[CrabHelmet]

So' date=' if your "Revive" card was exactly the same except for Reptiles instead of Zombies, would it still be banned despite having no threat whatsoever to the meta?

[/quote']

 

Another excellent question. The answer is that yes, it would be banworthy. There is no sense in screwing over a decktype simply because that decktype isn't currently top-tier.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

So' date=' if your "Revive" card was exactly the same except for Reptiles instead of Zombies, would it still be banned despite having no threat whatsoever to the meta?

[/quote']

 

Another excellent question. The answer is that yes, it would be banworthy. There is no sense in screwing over a decktype simply because that decktype isn't currently top-tier.

And having the card would also make it more difficult for that decktype to become top-tier as well.

[CrabHelmet]

So' date=' if your "Revive" card was exactly the same except for Reptiles instead of Zombies, would it still be banned despite having no threat whatsoever to the meta?

[/quote']

 

Another excellent question. The answer is that yes, it would be banworthy. There is no sense in screwing over a decktype simply because that decktype isn't currently top-tier.

And having the card would also make it more difficult for that decktype to become top-tier as well.

 

Precisely; it prohibits card design from accomplishing its goal. Allowing such a card to remain would simply lock the meta into whatever its current state happens to be.

[Megaworm]

Not everyone can run Lightsworn, Zombie World, or Tele-DAD, probably because they don't have the money or the knowledge to do so. Cards that annihilate everything are usually banned, but when they annihilate everything in only certain genres of cards (traps, warrior-type monsters, field cards) then they have less of an impact. They are not a nuke anymore, but rather than a pox, an epidemic to cards unfortunate enough to exist as the target. This is why diversity is so helpful at points. Sometimes the cards might not work with godlike fluency, but when it comes to type killers, they are safe to an advantage. Take this example:

 

This basic beatdown deck is running Chainsaw Insect, Berserk Gorilla, and Gene-Warped Warwolf.

 

the opponent's warrior deck is running Command Knights, Mystic Swordsman LV4, and D.D. Warrior Lady.

 

If either player activated a type killer card, the more diverse deck would prevail due to plenty of other cards of a different type being able to survive, meaning it had less of a winning edge against people who mix up the game and aren't nailed to specific types or attributes.

 

If either player activated Dark Hole it wouldn't matter, which is why it was banned.

 

take into consideration different types of type killers (lol, a pun)

 

Specific Type Killers: A type killer that destroys a certain type of card. Specifically like an imaginary card i wrote:

 

"destroy all Example-Type monsters on the field and remove them from play (regardless of position.)"

 

Survival Type Killers: A type killer that destroys all but one type of card. These are the usually unfair cards that work like a Raigeki with the right deck and ruin the chance of the opponent winning or surviving. In an imaginary card, the effect would read like this:

 

"All non-Example-Type Monsters are destroyed and removed from play."

 

One thing i also pondered was, if type killers made the game unfair, how come a metagame still exists and people aren't all running type killers in their decks, the Deck Killer Deck being the main metadeck in existence? It's because they AREN'T RAIGEKI, and only work against certain unfortunate decks that run alot of the same cards.

 

Attribute Killers are gladly still unexistant, since there is only 6 attributes to choose from, it cuts down the diversity of cards in the game, Lightsworn, Tele-DAD and zombies probably wouldn't be able to run correctly:

 

I summon Judgement Dragon.

 

I activate Megaworm's imaginary card, Light Killer. Negate the summoning of all LIGHT monsters.

 

this would ruin a rough 12.5% of the game because 12.5% of monsters are probably LIGHT, since there are 5 other attributes left to choose. In other words, an attribute killer can be slipped into any deck, even a filler deck, and it would probably ruin the battle for alot of decks out there.

[tommers2008]

Megaworm is totally right i couldn't agree more..!!!

 

type killers shouldn't be banned unless the advantage gained is almost duel winning..!!

[Guest PikaPerson01]

As long as the "type killer" merely capitalizes on over extension of one type, without going into punishing deck building or other such things, I'm fine with them. Once they hit hand and deck do they become banworthy IMO.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Megaworm kinda missed the point, in my eyes. Probably one of the only reasons we're not seeing a big impact with Type Killers right now is because our Meta sucks.

[Megaworm]

well if it was dominated by minimally modified Structure Decks, Cloudians, Aliens, One Type Only Decks and Dragons Only, then the Type Killers probably would've been banned, or at least limited because of how much you could get away with destroying all of the opponents monsters on the field with them. Plus, there isnt enough Type Killers in the game to be a true threat, and they aren't powerful enough to completely ruin decks. Maybe a costless C.C.V variant that destroyed all Fairy-Type monsters being drawn, in the hand or deck for a couple turns would be too powerful? Everybody wants to be able to completely destroy everything the opponent has without being able to comprehend on how much power that one card has, at least once in their life. It's fun, it makes them feel like Marik or something.