Most Influential Monster

[CrabHelmet]

^

true' date=' but witch of the black forest, sangans counterpart, is an incredable card, if it was to be unbanned thin of the revolution to accompany it jinzo would return to glory (well be assisted in doing so) a lot of newer stronger beatsticks have debuted since her deprture and for that matter

 

[img']http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/f/f4/DarkArmedDragonPTDN-EN-ScR.png[/img]

 

see a connection?

 

Despite being the more broken of the two, Witch had less effect on deckbuilding than Sangan has had.

 

namley becuse it was banned long before its time, personal oppinion, if witch made a return the game would change dramaticaly

 

What on earth is "before its time" supposed to mean? If it deserves to be banned, then banning it at any time is never a moment too soon, and if you're saying that Witch doesn't deserve to be banned, then you are wrong.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Sangan had more effect because in the early meta everyone's first impulse was to run high-attackers. Nobody was running things on the merits of being high defense, however, so Witch was integrated easier and had less effect on the construction of decks.

[Von Csent]

Sangan had more effect because in the early meta everyone's first impulse was to run high-attackers. Nobody was running things on the merits of being high defense' date=' however, so Witch was integrated easier and had less effect on the construction of decks.[/b']

 

I believe you just contradicted yourself.

 

Italics: You mean Witch.

 

Bold: Witch was more easily used, so it had less impact?

 

While Witch was free, she ruled searching outside Control and Exodia. Sangan took over when Witch was banned and more dangerous low ATK monsters were released.

[armageddon08]

In my opinnion Mirror Force was one of the cards people were going bananas over.

[Von Csent]

It shutdown reckless attacking and over-extension. It was is worth a lot of bananas, and for good reason.

[armageddon08]

Not really in this meta. The reason being: nonchainability.

[Von Csent]

Maybe not in this meta, but this thread is about more than what is influential now.

 

So far, I think our best contenders for the title are:

CED

Sangan

Witch

 

Mirror Force is not a monster, otherwise I would list it also.

 

DAD is powerful, but has not influenced the development of the game on a real strategic scale. It is a presence that one cannot fully prepare for, and thus has not affected how players build decks.

[Skarlet]

^

true' date=' but witch of the black forest, sangans counterpart, is an incredable card, if it was to be unbanned thin of the revolution to accompany it jinzo would return to glory (well be assisted in doing so) a lot of newer stronger beatsticks have debuted since her deprture and for that matter

 

[img']http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/f/f4/DarkArmedDragonPTDN-EN-ScR.png[/img]

 

see a connection?

 

Despite being the more broken of the two, Witch had less effect on deckbuilding than Sangan has had.

 

namley becuse it was banned long before its time, personal oppinion, if witch made a return the game would change dramaticaly

 

What on earth is "before its time" supposed to mean? If it deserves to be banned, then banning it at any time is never a moment too soon, and if you're saying that Witch doesn't deserve to be banned, then you are wrong.

simple, if it had held out, think of the impact it would have had on the game, the way it would effect todays meta

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Sangan had more effect because in the early meta everyone's first impulse was to run high-attackers. Nobody was running things on the merits of being high defense' date=' however, so Witch was integrated easier and had less effect on the construction of decks.[/b']

 

I believe you just contradicted yourself.

 

Italics: You mean Witch.

 

Bold: Witch was more easily used, so it had less impact?

 

While Witch was free, she ruled searching outside Control and Exodia. Sangan took over when Witch was banned and more dangerous low ATK monsters were released.

No, you missed my point. Nobody had to change the building style of their decks to accommodate Witch. They did to accommodate Sangan, though. Witch was just a really good card, Sangan redefined deck construction methods of the time. Everyone could splash Witch, it was broken and used everywhere but changed nothing. There was no net change in deck construction methods as a result of Witch.

[CrabHelmet]

Sangan had more effect because in the early meta everyone's first impulse was to run high-attackers. Nobody was running things on the merits of being high defense' date=' however, so Witch was integrated easier and had less effect on the construction of decks.

[/quote']

 

This basically sums up why Sangan was more influential than Witch, even though Witch was more broken. All Witch did was make everyone's existing decks a little more broken; Sangan actually had an effect on the other cards run.

 

Sangan had more effect because in the early meta everyone's first impulse was to run high-attackers. Nobody was running things on the merits of being high defense' date=' however, so Witch was integrated easier and had less effect on the construction of decks.[/b']

 

I believe you just contradicted yourself.

 

No, you believe wrong. Reading comprehension.

 

^

true' date=' but witch of the black forest, sangans counterpart, is an incredable card, if it was to be unbanned thin of the revolution to accompany it jinzo would return to glory (well be assisted in doing so) a lot of newer stronger beatsticks have debuted since her deprture and for that matter

 

[img']http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/f/f4/DarkArmedDragonPTDN-EN-ScR.png[/img]

 

see a connection?

 

Despite being the more broken of the two, Witch had less effect on deckbuilding than Sangan has had.

 

namley becuse it was banned long before its time, personal oppinion, if witch made a return the game would change dramaticaly

 

What on earth is "before its time" supposed to mean? If it deserves to be banned, then banning it at any time is never a moment too soon, and if you're saying that Witch doesn't deserve to be banned, then you are wrong.

 

simple, if it had held out, think of the impact it would have had on the game, the way it would effect todays meta

 

The full extent of its effect on today's meta is that people would run it. That's it. It wouldn't have any other real change in the cards or strategies being employed.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

ITT: Influential = Broken

 

Granted' date=' most broken cards are pretty influential, plenty of balanced cards that have defined the format exist. Case in point:

 

Mobius the Frost Monarch.

 

Pretty much put a nail in the coffin for every non-chainable trap.

[/quote']

 

Influential cards don't have to be broken, but broken cards are oftentimes influential, and moreso than the non-broken ones.

 

Oh' date=' and let's not forget Breaker the Magical Warrior. Sure, he may murder non-chainables, but more importantly, he gave us [b']DUROH! MONSTA KADO![/b]

 

:(

[Psycho Shocker Android]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWM5YFjXhQ0

[Von Csent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWM5YFjXhQ0

 

Now I get it.

 

As for the Sangan/Witch debate, in my area Sangan never hit it off. But then, I never heard of anyone calling Sangan better than Witch until now.

 

Since they essentially do the same thing, each going for a different stat, the more influential one is the one that had better targets. While both were allowed, Witch could usually grab the same things that Sangan could, plus Jinzo, Breaker, and a handful of other beatsticks.

 

So, I can't see how Sangan is better, except for the fact that Witch is banned, but that means nothing as far as influence is concerned.

[Father Wolf]

DD Crow eveyone sides him.

[CrabHelmet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWM5YFjXhQ0

 

Now I get it.

 

As for the Sangan/Witch debate' date=' in my area Sangan never hit it off. But then, I never heard of anyone calling Sangan better than Witch until now.

 

Since they essentially do the same thing, each going for a different stat, the more influential one is the one that had better targets. While both were allowed, Witch could usually grab the same things that Sangan could, plus Jinzo, Breaker, and a handful of other beatsticks.

 

So, I can't see how Sangan is better, except for the fact that Witch is banned, but that means nothing as far as influence is concerned.

[/quote']

 

Sangan is NOT better than Witch.

 

Sangan is more influential than Witch.

 

Influence and power are not necessarily in direct proportion with a +1.0 correlation.

[Von Csent]

How has D.D. Crow bent the game as CED, Sangan, Witch, and Mirror Force has? It hasn't.

 

Influential, for the purpose of this topic, means that players' and Konami's approach to the game had changed.

 

CED - Gave us a ban list.

Sangan/Witch - Made everyone, including Konami, carefully consider ATK/DEF for powerful monsters.

Mirror Force - Punishes mass swarming and careless attacks.

D.D. Crow - Slightly limits Graveyard recursion. A good effect, but it has not affected our strategies. Has it affected how you build a deck? It is an inconvenience, no more.

[Fh-Fh]

Exodia.

 

Most people are familiar with EXODIA, OBLITERATE!!!!. Influence can be measured on fake cards. Most common cards I see are Blue-Eyes, Exodia (AKA Super Mega Ultimate One, Forbidden Overlord, Exodia the Umltimate Mega Master Overlord of all things Holy, etc.). Exodia has its own decktype, and must main 5 cards. No other deck does that.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Exodia.

 

Most people are familiar with EXODIA' date=' OBLITERATE!!!![/b']. Influence can be measured on fake cards. Most common cards I see are Blue-Eyes, Exodia (AKA Super Mega Ultimate One, Forbidden Overlord, Exodia the Umltimate Mega Master Overlord of all things Holy, etc.). Exodia has its own decktype, and must main 5 cards. No other deck does that.

 

I'm used to HELLFIRE'S RAGE, EXODOFLAME!!!!!!!!

[Von Csent]

Exodia fueled the game early on with BEWD, but did not really contribute to making the game what it is today.

 

@Crab: I still do not understand how Sangan being weaker makes it more influential than Witch. It had more influence because it was harder to use? We're looking for impact on the game. On the basic level, their contributions are identical. Technically though, Witch had more power than Sangan. Sangan was even always called Witch's "little brother".

[CrabHelmet]

Exodia fueled the game early on with BEWD' date=' but did not really contribute to making the game what it is today.

 

@Crab: I still do not understand how Sangan being weaker makes it more influential than Witch. It had more influence because it was harder to use? We're looking for impact on the game. On the basic level, their contributions are identical. Technically though, Witch had more power than Sangan. Sangan was even always called Witch's "little brother".

[/quote']

 

Witch's impact on the game was that people ran Witch. That was about it. Everyone's decks got a bit of a boost, but aside from that, not a whole lot changed. This is because people already ran loads and loads of high-ATK low-DEF monsters, so there was no need to change their decks.

 

Sangan, on the other hand, encouraged the use of monsters that had low ATK - something that directly contrasted with the previous playstyle. People actually replaced high-ATK monsters with other monster with lower ATK on the grounds that the low-ATK monsters could be searched by Sangan. Even as recently as a year ago, people were reluctant to run 1600 ATK monsters on the simple basis that Sangan couldn't snag them. That's how influential Sangan was.

[Von Csent]

I see your point now. I personally ran Witch in all circumstances (considering I never searched for Mystical Elf, etc.).

 

I think we should consider them equal then, for this discussion at least. They both had their unique mark left on the game.

 

I guess they are two sides of the same coin. Just as CED Envoy and BLS Envoy are two sides of a coin (with, of course, a distinct lean to one side).

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Let's see sangan...is not as worthless as we may think...obously witch iis better and that's why they banned her first.....althought sangan use to search many cards that now he can't....Yata, Magician of faith, Magical Scientist, Cyber stain, Tzukuyomi, even the witch....Both are good an maeby are the same important beacuase they were the one who makes us easy to play with mentioned cards XD

 

and even so CED is the best XD

[Skarlet]

another 1 jsut popped into my head NS Grand Mole, it Made for your opponent to waste tributes, or summons turn, after turn after turn, plus in battle it's relativly indestructable due to its effect

[JG.]

Are we talking meta or just in general when yugioh became poular?

 

The first: NS Grand Mole OR DAD and maybe even Stardust Dragon.

 

The last: BEWD for sure.

[Von Csent]

We're talking cumulative. In other words, who influenced the game long-term. I personally think that too few monsters in today's meta have impacted the game on a global level, such as DAD, who aside from being a removal/beatstick, is nothing revolutionizing the game.

 

Jinzo, on the other hand, is not the greatest in this meta (why, I don't know), but upon his debut, paved the way to efficient trap-shutdown, and beatsticks that can have game-changing effects for very little (1 tribute in this case).