Charizard vs Salamence

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Who is best?

 

CHARIZARD FTW

[Lazer Yoshi]

Charizard, because he learns his best Moves at earlier levels. But Salamence is still a hard Pokemon to beat. However, Charizard is just one of the best Pokemon out there.

[Luna Diviner]

Salamance Pseudo-Legendary FTW

[Guest Tiger]

Charizard FTW!

[Neiko]

Best? This thread is just going to be picking favorites. With no move list and such it is impossible to tell who the victor could be.

 

For now i'm neutral.

[Flame Dragon]

I love Charizard, but Salamence is the better pokemon.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Salamence wins. It has Rock Slide which would probably take out Charizard in 1 hit.

 

Even with similar move sets, Salamence still comes out on top since Rock-Type Moves cause 4x Damage against Charizard and only 2x Damage against Salamence.

[Saturn of Elemia]

Salamance. It has higher attack, can learn better moves, and takes half damage from FIRE moves.

[Cin]

Hard for me since I train both of them, I have 2 Charizards and 1 Salamence, but I dunno.

[Pikachu]

Salamance wins

Dragon > Fire

Nuff said

[2sick4u]

Salamence is more flexible, which is something I always look for.

 

In both Move-sets and mixed-sweeping capability.

 

Thus, by simple range and overall better stats, Salamence wins.

 

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

[Phantasy Dreamz]

Salamence

Intimidates Charizard and cut its attack

-good enuff reason??

[Spire]

Salamance.

 

Only because Charizard's fire attack aren't very effective against it.

[Nɇvɇrmorɇ]

goooooooo salamence!

[andre007]

charizard is a tiny bit stronger

[Villojody R.]

Salamence.

 

Battle:

Charizard used flamethrower.

Salamence dodged and used wing attack.

Charizard cannot dodge.

Charizard used fly.

Salamence used fly.

Charizard used fly! It missed

Salamence used fly!

Charizard used Blast Burn.

Salamence used Earthquake

Super Effective!

 

Charizard Fainted

 

-_-

[Death Metal]

Salamance. It has higher attack' date=' can learn better moves, and takes half damage from FIRE moves.

[/quote']

 

Second.

 

 

 

Salamence.

 

Battle:

Charizard used flamethrower.

Salamence dodged and used wing attack.

Charizard cannot dodge.

Charizard used fly.

Salamence used fly.

Charizard used fly! It missed

Salamence used fly!

Charizard used Blast Burn.

Salamence used Earthquake

Super Effective!

 

Charizard Fainted

 

-_-

 

Last time I checked Charizard was a flying-type also.

[Flame Dragon]

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

Mewtwo.

 

Salamance.

 

Only because Charizard's fire attack aren't very effective against it.

Charizard learnes other moves side from Fire.

 

Salamence

Intimidates Charizard and cut its attack

-good enuff reason??

Belly Drum get around this.

[2sick4u]

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

Mewtwo.

 

 

Point being? Arceus and Darkai can knock the crap out of Mewtwo.

 

To reinstate my point; That although some earlier Pokemon may retain usefulness, there will only be more Pokemon released that have the ability to counter/be simply better than the previous generation (s).

 

Ffs, it's simple logic. You wouldn't release a Pokemon game unless it offered a new, desirable edge on the previous generations.

[Catman25]

Yeah, Salamence, unless charizard has dragon claw. Anyways, char would still lose.

[Flame Dragon]

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

Mewtwo.

 

 

Point being? Arceus and Darkai can knock the crap out of Mewtwo.

 

To reinstate my point; That although some earlier Pokemon may retain usefulness' date=' there will only be more Pokemon released that have the ability to counter/be simply better than the previous generation (s).

 

Ffs, it's simple logic. You wouldn't release a Pokemon game unless it offered a new, desirable edge on the previous generations.

[/quote']

Darkai has a better typing then Mewtwo, but if both were sent out from the start Mewtwo has the edge thanks to it's Godly Sp. ATK, Spe, and Aura Sphere.

 

Arceus is just as good as Mewtwo, and which is better is based on too many varibles (moves and items, but move sets create far too many).

 

No pokemon is "better then Mewtwo", the only two that are in the same class as it are Arceus and Deoxys-A. All pokemon can be countered but this is based of move sets and items.

 

No new gen pokemon have a edge on old gen pokemon.

Aerodactyl

Dragonite

Dugtrio

Gengar

Are all first gen pokemon that are still very good.

Plus some pokemon get better with new games and they, in turn, end up with an edge over new pokemon

[2sick4u]

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

Mewtwo.

 

 

Point being? Arceus and Darkai can knock the crap out of Mewtwo.

 

To reinstate my point; That although some earlier Pokemon may retain usefulness' date=' there will only be more Pokemon released that have the ability to counter/be simply better than the previous generation (s).

 

Ffs, it's simple logic. You wouldn't release a Pokemon game unless it offered a new, desirable edge on the previous generations.

[/quote']

Darkai has a better typing then Mewtwo, but if both were sent out from the start Mewtwo has the edge thanks to it's Godly Sp. ATK, Spe, and Aura Sphere.

 

Where you went wrong here is you assumed most people use Aura Sphere on Mewtwo. Most don't, since it isn't a staple on him like Thunderbolt. Plus, Mewtwo has a 130 Base Stat in Speed. Darkrai has 125, upon memory. Point-being, most people only give an Aura Sphering Mewtwo about 220 EV's in speed. People who choose to sweep with Darkrai give it the full 252. =/. Thus, Darkrai would end up with more speed, going first, can instantly use Dark Void; and go from there. Which would more than likely result in Darkrai's win.

 

Arceus is just as good as Mewtwo, and which is better is based on too many varibles (moves and items, but move sets create far too many).

 

Arceus is WAY more flexible than Mewtwo. Mewtwo has the movepool, but Arceus has the distinct type coverage. Give Arceus the Dread-Plate; or basically any other plate, and Mewtwo virtually has to go from scratch. It doesn't automatically mean Arceus will win, but it gives it a significant enough advantage to assume it will.

 

No pokemon is "better then Mewtwo", the only two that are in the same class as it are Arceus and Deoxys-A. All pokemon can be countered but this is based of move sets and items.

 

... No Pokemon WAS better than Mewtwo. However, due to PROGRESSION, quite a few Pokemon are now more than capable of dealing with it. In the first generation, it was clear that Mewtwo was king. In the Second Generation, Tyranitar gave it a run for it's money, as did Lugia. 3rd Generation was similar, with Deoxy's, as well as Rayquaza. Now, in the 4th Generation, the list of Pokemon that now easily compete with Mewtwo for the role as king. All due to Progression, which was my point.

 

No new gen pokemon have a edge on old gen pokemon.

Aerodactyl

Dragonite

Dugtrio

Gengar

Are all first gen pokemon that are still very good.

Plus some pokemon get better with new games and they, in turn, end up with an edge over new pokemon

 

They're good, but lots of new Pokemon distinct advantages over what would be older Pokemon.

 

Gengar lost fortitude with the new amount of move's in the 4th generation.

 

Dugtrio can't take a hit, and virtually ANY first hitting move can cause a OH-KO.

 

Dragonite was outdone by Salmance in the 3rd Generation, once again, due to progression.

 

Aerodactyl wasn't ever that great to begin with. Besides speed and an extremely moderate attack stat, it was lacking alot.

 

Once again, newer Generation Pokemon will always be distinctly more abusable than the older ones. It's called progression, and it's not a ground-breaking concept.

 

I think I got my point across.

 

Eh. We can take this to Shoddy Battle, if you want to actually see which would be more advantageous. =/.

[Flame Dragon]

Besides.

 

It's common logic to think that Pokemon that come out in the later era are always going to have the edge on the earlier formed ones.

 

It's called progression; and is the foundation of nearly any sequel.

 

=/.

Mewtwo.

 

 

Point being? Arceus and Darkai can knock the crap out of Mewtwo.

 

To reinstate my point; That although some earlier Pokemon may retain usefulness' date=' there will only be more Pokemon released that have the ability to counter/be simply better than the previous generation (s).

 

Ffs, it's simple logic. You wouldn't release a Pokemon game unless it offered a new, desirable edge on the previous generations.

[/quote']

Darkai has a better typing then Mewtwo, but if both were sent out from the start Mewtwo has the edge thanks to it's Godly Sp. ATK, Spe, and Aura Sphere.

 

Where you went wrong here is you assumed most people use Aura Sphere on Mewtwo. Most don't, since it isn't a staple on him like Thunderbolt. Plus, Mewtwo has a 130 Base Stat in Speed. Darkrai has 125, upon memory. Point-being, most people only give an Aura Sphering Mewtwo about 220 EV's in speed. People who choose to sweep with Darkrai give it the full 252. =/. Thus, Darkrai would end up with more speed, going first, can instantly use Dark Void; and go from there. Which would more than likely result in Darkrai's win.

 

Arceus is just as good as Mewtwo, and which is better is based on too many varibles (moves and items, but move sets create far too many).

 

Arceus is WAY more flexible than Mewtwo. Mewtwo has the movepool, but Arceus has the distinct type coverage. Give Arceus the Dread-Plate; or basically any other plate, and Mewtwo virtually has to go from scratch. It doesn't automatically mean Arceus will win, but it gives it a significant enough advantage to assume it will.

 

No pokemon is "better then Mewtwo", the only two that are in the same class as it are Arceus and Deoxys-A. All pokemon can be countered but this is based of move sets and items.

 

... No Pokemon WAS better than Mewtwo. However, due to PROGRESSION, quite a few Pokemon are now more than capable of dealing with it. In the first generation, it was clear that Mewtwo was king. In the Second Generation, Tyranitar gave it a run for it's money, as did Lugia. 3rd Generation was similar, with Deoxy's, as well as Rayquaza. Now, in the 4th Generation, the list of Pokemon that now easily compete with Mewtwo for the role as king. All due to Progression, which was my point.

 

No new gen pokemon have a edge on old gen pokemon.

Aerodactyl

Dragonite

Dugtrio

Gengar

Are all first gen pokemon that are still very good.

Plus some pokemon get better with new games and they, in turn, end up with an edge over new pokemon

 

They're good, but lots of new Pokemon distinct advantages over what would be older Pokemon.

 

Gengar lost fortitude with the new amount of move's in the 4th generation.

 

Dugtrio can't take a hit, and virtually ANY first hitting move can cause a OH-KO.

 

Dragonite was outdone by Salmance in the 3rd Generation, once again, due to progression.

 

Aerodactyl wasn't ever that great to begin with. Besides speed and an extremely moderate attack stat, it was lacking alot.

 

Once again, newer Generation Pokemon will always be distinctly more abusable than the older ones. It's called progression, and it's not a ground-breaking concept.

 

I think I got my point across.

 

Eh. We can take this to Shoddy Battle, if you want to actually see which would be more advantageous. =/.

1) Most Mewtwos don't have T-Bolt any more thanks the rain from Kyogre, and now carry Thunder, and even then it is about as common as Aura Sphere. With a plus speed nature Mewtwo can outrun Darkrai with 216 Spe EVs.

 

2) While the type coverage is "better" thanks to Multitype only helps to give it a good STAB move. Both Arceus and Mewtwo can generate the same type coverage since both learn mostly the same moves. Also no plate Arceus is some what common. Arceus is more flexable, that I must give you.

 

3) All of those did increase the number of pokemon that could stand up to Mewtwo, but none of them could really take the king title. No pokemon compete well with Mewtwo since they all have weaknesses that can easily be used against them Mewtwo has these but even when you do use them to your benifit, you will still take a bit of a lose. The same applies to the other that share Mewtwo's title, Arceus and Deoxys A.

 

4)

Gengar learns alot of the new moves, and these new moves is what helps keep it to be a common pokemon on a large number of teams.

Dugtrio can't take a hit and while most fast-hitting moves do kill it it is still a very good at getting revenge kills, with only Weavile being able to possibly take this title.

I know Dragonite was out done a long time ago, but he is till useable and is a nice change.

Aerodactyl has, in fact, gotten a lot better as the gens have passed.

 

I know some pokemon lose out to other pokemon as the gens pass, Infernape>Blaziken, but some will never stop being useful and will always be able to find a spot on a team, Gengar and Gyarados.

 

You raise many good points and I will never say Mewtwo, alone is the best, or Mewtwo is unbeatable, but he still is in the top of the top on the tiers.

 

Now to be a noob. I know of Shoddy Battle but I never really gone much into it, care to go a bit into to it for me

[Monkey]

i feel salamence has an advantage over charizard even if charizard had a dragon move

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

^ Salamence has access to 4x Damage moves and Charizard only has access to 2x moves against Salamence.

 

It wont make a big difference if Charizard has a 2x damage move like Dragon Pulse because Salamence has access to moves that cause 4x damage such as Rock Slide. If Salamence has a Choice Band, the damage is like 2 STAB Hyper Beams without the recharge.