garelock Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 Monsters:2x Great Shogun Shien3x Grandmaster of the Six Samurai3x Zanji3x Irou2x Yaichi2x Kamon2x Nisashi2x Nitro Synchron1x Tune Warrior1x Jutte Fighter Spells:1x Lightning Vortex2x Reinforcements of the Army1x Giant Trunade1x Heavy Storm1x Mystical Space Typhoon1x Premature Burial1x Monster Reborn1x United We Stand1x Double Summon1x Enemy Controller Traps:2x Return of the Six Samurai1x Mirror Force1x Ordeal of a Traveler1x Scrap-Iron1x Magic Cylinder1x Compulsory Extra Deck:Goyo WarriorNitro WarriorCollossol FighterJunk WarriorGaiaStardusk Dragon Note: This deck isn't complete yet. Just looking for some feedback. I actually tried it without Nitro Synchron and found out that without him and his drawpower ability it was a little harder to win. I don't know why he gets such a bad wrap. Sure, he isn't searchable but with him and jutte you could synchro with just about anyone except for shogun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 Needs less crappy Spells and non-chainable Traps and More Double-Edged Sword Technique and six Samurai United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan Knight Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 It was nigh along the lines of a deep, internal summoning to your topic. As if something inside were trying to reach out to my consciousness to tell me "Tell the scrub what he did wrong...! Show him the error of his ways...!". I can hardly ignore such a demand. So, listen up, scrub; it's your lucky day. You've got moi, the one and only Saiyan Knight, giving you a detailed post on why you're in the wrong. Don't worry, my lost soul! I will show you the error of your ways, as to help you better become acquainted with making the right choices and noticing when a card is bad. The Six Samurai expert is here to save you. First of all, let's look at that deck list, shall we? I want to take a good hard look at some of the things here that I've bolded. Monsters:2x Great Shogun Shien3x Grandmaster of the Six Samurai3x Zanji3x Irou2x Yaichi2x Kamon2x Nisashi2x Nitro Synchron1x Tune Warrior1x Jutte Fighter Spells:1x Lightning Vortex2x Reinforcements of the Army1x Giant Trunade1x Heavy Storm1x Mystical Space Typhoon1x Premature Burial1x Monster Reborn1x United We Stand1x Double Summon1x Enemy Controller Traps:2x Return of the Six Samurai1x Mirror Force1x Ordeal of a Traveler1x Scrap-Iron1x Magic Cylinder1x Compulsory Extra Deck:Goyo GuardianNitro WarriorColossal FighterJunk WarriorGaia Knight' date=' The Force of EarthStardust Dragon[/quote'] Wow. Damn. I didn't realize how much help you needed until I actually put bold on the things to fix. Jesus. Don't fear, I'll be as detailed as I can. Hopefully nobody here's a "tl;dr" lamer. Let's just go down the list and look at why I have a problem with these things, and then we can look at some suggestions to make it more successful in today's high-speed, high-power format. I wanted these to have that little "(Click to View)" thing, but I don't know how to do it, so this is my improvised separation of text. 3x The Six Samurai - Irou:Let's start by looking at this card's stats and effect. DARK/Level-4/1700/1200/Warrior "While you control another "Six Samurai" monster with a different name, if this card attacks a face-down Defense Position monster, destroy the monster immediately with this card's effect without flipping it face-up or applying damage calculation. If this card would be destroyed, you can destroy another "Six Samurai" monster you control instead." Now, there are some key things here to notice. First of all, the pluses: -Warrior-Type enables Reinforcement of the Army with it. -"Six Samurai" in the name enables Grandmaster's effect more often, by including more of the kind of cards he shows synergy with. Now the cons: -1700 Attack is nothing special against Lightsworn, Gladiators, or Tele-DAD. -It's effect is virtually useless in a tier 1, Premier Event forum of play. In reference to that last point, let's just look at what get's set in those decks: Lightsworn: Ryko. Gladiator Beasts: Hoplomus. Tele-DAD: Sangan. Now, Hoplomus can only be hit by Irou when it's the first monster that get's played, since face-down defense isn't going to happen from the deck, and even then not many Gladiator Beast players use it, let alone more than one. Sangan doesn't care how it dies, so it's no different than being killed with any other Samurai. And Ryko? It's played at two. That means you're using three copies of a Six Samurai, to handle, basically, two copies of Ryko and an occasional Hoplomus? Not worth it. I'd cut it to one to leave the option open, but nothing else. We can start by dropping two copies here. -2x The Six Samurai - Irou 2x The Six Samurai - Kamon:For reasons quite similar to those of removing two copies of Irou, I want to say you should eliminate a single copy of Kamon as a bare minimum. Looking at what his effect can destroy, we have to again go to the top three decks, currently holding tier 1 in a deathgrip: Lightsworn, Gladiators, and Tele-DAD. What gets played in these that would be effective targets? What can Kamon do to benefit the win-condition, other than have Six Samurai in his name, against those match-ups? Lightsworn: As far as I know, nothing. Gladiator Beasts: Yet again, nothing. Tele-DAD: Not one card. Again, it comes down to pros and cons. Here are the benefits: -Warrior-Type enables Reinforcement of the Army with it. -"Six Samurai" in the name enables Grandmaster's effect more often, by including more of the kind of cards he shows synergy with. -With Imperial Iron Wall out, it has one target, and if Zombies take off, Card of Safe Return would make two. Now the cons: -1500 Attack is abysmal for a beatstick, and that's all Kamon is at the moment. -It's effect is virtually useless in a tier 1, Premier Event forum of play. -Even if Zombies launch to tier 1, it's effect only has 5 possible targets, at the most, 3 of which don't hurt your game. With these things in mind, I would nix both of them, and side one, just in case. That's a heavy "just in case", by the way. Maybe it could catch on as we see more development from the Zombie archtype, or if stall-burn makes a comeback, but I think we both know those are highly unlikely. -2x The Six Samurai - Kamon 2x The Six Samurai - Nisashi:While it's true that this card is effective in a heavy-hitting hand with Shien, Grandmaster, and a cunning, you don't run cunning, and the hand is particularly unlikely anyway. Regretfully, not all of the Six Samurai are as good as Yaichi and Zanji, and this is a prime example. I don't need to list pros and cons, or give a wordy reason for my choice here. Nisashi just can't keep up with the format. -2x The Six Samurai - Nisashi 2x Nitro Synchron:THIS little guy, I want to talk a little more about. Let's start with statistics for the card. FIRE/2-star/300/100/Machine/Tuner "When this card is used to Synchro Summon a "Nitro" Synchro Monster and is sent to the Graveyard, draw 1 card" There are some obvious things that pop out at you about this card, which are emphasized in this deck-type. This is especially noticeable in contrast to other Synchros that I want to talk about later. Pros: -You draw when you Synchro Summon. Cons: -You only draw when you Synchro Summon for a monster that isn't very good. -Machine-Type disables searchability. -Level 2 status makes Synchro Summoning for the Draw effect difficult, and difficult in general. For the sake of explaining why I said the Synchro Monster isn't very good, I'll go over it after I finish with this little guy, in the same section. The most notable problem is the Machine-Type of this particular tuner, though. That means you'll be waiting a while most of the times you want to try to give him a work-out. The other big problem is the level. As a level 2, you can Synchro Summon with everything but Shien, but, the question is, why would you want to? There are better Tuners, and of better levels and searchability. I'll be going over that also, later on. -2x Nitro Synchron --Nitro Warrior side note-- The only real problem here is the sheer lack of opportunity to capitalize on his effect. That makes him, mostly, a big beat-stick, which Colossal Fighter does better. Hell, even Red Dragon Archfiend does. 1x Tune Warrior:For some time, he was my Tuner of choice, until I stopped looking at the individual card, and more at what it can interact with. The Six Samurai are an archetype based on working with each other and other cards. Tune Warrior is alright on his own, but the only reason I'll be saying to lose him is because of the the other tuner I'll be recommending. -1x Tune Warrior 1x Jutte Fighter:Now, for a long time, I DID rip on a lot of people for this card's inclusion into the strategy [sorry, Toni!], and I admit I was wrong on that. My reasoning was valid, and as a splashed combo of one-each, it's still horrid. However, it's pretty effective if the whole deck is based on something that works with it, which is sort of what I'm going for here also. I'm actually switching it up with my final verdict on Jutte Fighter. +2x Jutte Fighter Time for the replacements! 2x Hand of the Six Samurai:This is a new monster from The Duelist Genesis, and needs to be talked about. Here's a quick statistic briefing, in case you haven't seen it. FIRE/Level-3/1600/1000/Warrior "While you control another "Six Samurai" monster, you can Tribute 1 "Six Samurai" monster to destroy 1 monster on the field" This effect is phenomenal, and I can't say enough about it. Everything the Six Samurai lacked an answer to on the field, such as Judgment Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Gladiator Beast Heraklinos, and the like, just got taken care of. The only choice the Six Samurai player used to have there was to try to 'tech' Exiled Force. Now, with Hand of the Six Samurai, we have our own Exiled Force, but it has Six Samurai in the name to work with Grandmaster and Shien, it benefits from all of our support cards, it has 600 more attack, and it's got the added bonus of being able to tribute OTHER monsters for it's effect. Have you ever had a Grandmaster on the field AND in your hand? With Hand out, that Grandmaster just became the equivalent of a Fissure/Smashing Ground, but better. You can also tribute off a Yaichi that killed a card to make the Yaichi a 1-for-2 against both backrow and monsters! That's an incredible boon to the strategy, no matter who you ask. +2x Hand of the Six Samurai 2x Spirit of the Six Samurai:This gem hails from the Gladiator's Assault booster, at the humble rarity of common. Here's a look at what it does. EARTH/Level-3/500/500/Warrior/Union Once per turn, you can equip this card to a face-up "Six Samurai" monster you control, OR unequip it and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. When equipped to a monster by this card's effect, that equipped monster gains 500 ATK and DEF. When the equipped monster destroys an opponent's monster by battle, draw 1 card. (A monster can only be equipped with 1 Union monster at a time. If the equipped monster would be destroyed, destroy this card instead. Seems like a mouthful, but he's definitely worth it. It can turn anything into a semi-invincible powerhouse/draw engine! Giving Grandmaster the power to swing over a Stardust, or Yaichi a little more staying power at a fair 1800 is an amazing deal, when it pays for itself every turn. And when you're done with it? Special Summon it back to the field and fire it away with Hand for a 1-for-1 trade that payed for itself over again. One of my favorite plays though, is to equip it to something that ISN'T Grandmaster, when Grandmaster's out. It literally makes their Mirror Force, Torrential, Lightning Vortex, etc a minimum of a -1! +2x Spirit of the Six Samurai 2x Junk Synchron:Probably my favorite of the Warrior Tuners, this one packs the special ability to Special Summon a Level 2 or lower monster. Have a look! DARK/Level-3/1300/500/Warrior/Tuner "When this card is Normal Summoned, you can Special Summon 1 Level 2 or lower monster from your Graveyard in face-up Defense Position. That monster's effect(s) is negated." The problem is that it gets it's effect negated. We can get around that by bringing back a monster with an unimportant effect though, like, Jutte Fighter, for example! It doesn't matter if it's effect is negated, if you're just using it for it's Tuner status! With this, you can, if you had a Six Samurai and Grandmaster out when you summoned Junk Synchron, bring out a Level-6/7/8 and Level-5/6 Synchro Monster at the same time! You'd be using three cards for two Synchro Monsters, but if they're Goyo and Stardust, they'll pay for themselves in no time! +2x Junk Synchron 1x Enishi, Shien's ChancellorEnishi is an overall good card, though I never liked the frequency I was able to use it compared to win I could draw it, until I started playing with Synchro Monsters. Even still, I frowned upon it... But then, three Reinforcement, three Jutte, and two Junk changed my mind. Some people tried to tell me that the Jutte/Enishi combo was good before, but it wasn't really anything, until Junk Synchron came along to reverse-toolbox the Jutte out of the Graveyard and give me two Synchro Monsters in a turn. Nuking a monster for free can be good, and I like the option of Avenging Knight Parshath. As much as I'd love to complain about this card sometimes, I do always come around to loving it again. +1x Enishi, Shien's Chancellor As a quick recap, that makes the changes to the monster lineup at this point:+2x Hand of the Six Samurai+2x Spirit of the Six Samurai+2x Junk Synchron+2x Jutte Fighter+1x Enishi, Shien's Chancellor-2x The Six Samurai - Irou-2x The Six Samurai - Kamon-2x The Six Samurai - Nisashi-2x Nitro Synchron-1x Tune Warrior Next, the spells. 1x Lightning Vortex:I've tried it before, and I keep trying it to this day. I tell you what I've told everyone else; I'm not impressed. The discard hurts, and Stardust doesn't really care about Lightning Vortex too much anyway. With the added reverse-toolbox of Junk for Jutte and a pair of Traps I'm putting in later, it might be good, but I haven't done any work with it. Take it out for now, is my recommendation. Feel free to try it if you really insist, but I wouldn't bother. -1x Lightning Vortex 2x Reinforcement of the Army:This is the least I'll have to write about a card in this whole post. "Add another. Now." +1x Reinforcement of the Army 1x Premature Burial:I take it back. This is; "It's banned." -1x Premature Burlal 1x United We Stand:As a general rule, I don't like Equip Spells very much. They're an automatic -1, since they go away with your monster, and their effects are never as game-breaking as I feel they need to be. A simple attack-boost just doesn't do anything justice at this point in the game. I mean, it could get Grandmaster over Dark Armed, but that means your use for the damn thing is a three-card-combo that Hand and Grandmaster can do just fine on their own. -1x United We Stand 1x Enemy Controller:I just never liked it, to be honest. If you really need to stop attacks, play Dimensional Prison or Kunai with Chain. They're both more versatile cards with their own advantages, but they also both out-shine Enemy Controller in today's meta. Maybe back in Goat Control or the days of Zaborg, but those are long gone. -1x Enemy Controller 3x Six Samurai United:It's the Six Samurai equivalent of Destiny Draw or Allure, though the conditions aren't similar. It is, however, a +1 instead of a +0, like Destiny and Allure. On it's own, it can net you two cards without doing anything other than going ahead with the summoning you would have done that turn anyway. There's not much to say, because it's a beautiful thing. +3x Six Samurai United This is what the changes to the Spells look like. Definitely on the right track now. +1x Reinforcements of the Army+3x Six Samurai United-1x Lightning Vortex-1x Premature Burial-1x United We Stand-1x Enemy Controller Finally, Trap cards. This is where I felt the second biggest problem, to banned cards, came in. 2x Return of the Six Samurai:Without the long-winded explaination, we're adding in the more powerful version of the same card. -2x Return of the Six Samurai 1x Ordeal of a Traveler, 1x Scrap-Iron Scarecrow, 1x Magic Cylinder:I understand that a lot of people can look at these cards and think that they might be worth their salt, just by the appearence of the effects, if they haven't actually gotten too far with the game at all, but that's just not the case. At the moment, there are so many things that these cards get knocked away by, that not having them as chainable responses to tier 1 cards is just wasting space. -1x Each 1x Compulsory Evacuation Device: You were on the right track here, but we need the room for something else. Good choice, but bump it to two copies, and put them both in the Side Deck. +2 Compulsory Evacuation Device > Side Deck 2x Double-Edged Sword Technique:Again, basically adding in the more powerful version of the same card. For the purpose of performing Synchro Summons quickly, this card is a center piece of the strategy, with a few cool tricks of it's own. First of all, using my favorite play with Junk Synchron after bringing back a Zanji and Grandmaster with this, can lead to a 2-for-2, or +0, Synchro Summon of Goyo and Stardust at the same time! Also, if Synchro Summoning isn't what you need to do right then, you can perform other little shenanigans to get out of the damage. If you brought back a Spirit, then it won't be destroyed and you won't take the 500 damage for it, if you equip it to something. It dodges the effect. Another thing is to grab Hand of the Six Samurai and tribute it off to kill one of their monsters, so you won't take the 1600 for bringing it back. +2x Double-Edged Sword Technique 3x Solemn Judgment:This card is so powerful it's staggering. Being able to deny the opponent ANY card is just a fantastic ability that I don't think I need to explain. +3x Solemn Judgment 1x Torrential Tribute:Let's be honest; you can't always plan for the perfect game. If you never thought you'd need defense, you wouldn't play Mirror Force. This is a member of the Holy Trinity, and is a solid inclusion to defend with while you're waiting out a turn. +1x Torrential Tribute This is what I've done to the Trap cards in the deck, to optimize performance. +2x Double-Edged Sword Technique+3x Solemn Judgment+1x Torrential Tribute-2x Return of the Six Samurai-1x Ordeal of a Traveler-1x Scrap-Iron-1x Magic Cylinder-1x Compulsory And on a final note, make your Side Deck against what's big in your area. Examine enemy cards, and see what takes care of it effectively. Good luck, enjoy the read, and let me know how it goes. I'm expecting +Rep for this. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan Knight Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wow, I finally made an attempt to shake being an ass, and replied in a detailed and helpful manner, and the kid blows off the forum? This is exactly why I'm a short-spoken ass. It takes less time and effort. -_-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuki ni Mau Majin Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 This deck is illegal, and terrihorrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 I agree with you saiyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan Knight Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 I'm glad SOMEONE acknowledges my writing.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 It was entretaining reading your post and I agree with all of it. Ive always liked six samurais but never got my hands on grandmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan Knight Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 I've been with them for a long time now, so I feel pretty comfortable going into longer, more pointed posts about them like that. On a side note, that thing in your signature? The "(Click to view)" thing? How do you do that? I wanted to, in my long post, but didn't know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 its [spoiler=the name] content Just quote this post and youll see the format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan Knight Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 its [spoiler=the name] content Just quote this post and youll see the format.[spoiler=Like this?]Ah, I see.Thank you so much! =3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonisanoob Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 btw sayin i acknowlage the f*** out of you ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 no problem. Thats how i learned to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark One Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 [spoiler=YAY!] You've finally come around to Toni's and my own thinking regarding Enishi and Jutte Fighter. By the way, that was a really good post. You need to do things like that more often, there aren't many megafixers left in the Deck Forum, and even I rarely do those in-depth posts anymore. But we need to bring that kind of quality back to the forum, as it has degraded rather pitifully. It's funny, prior to Crab Helmet and the GameFAQers, the average post quality was terrible. When they came, people at first reacted violently to their aura of superiority, and then came around and mindlessly worshiped them. After a while, a few people actually realized that Crab was not a god, but simply an intelligent person who could hold his own in a discussion. Then they realized they could be too. It seems that this art has once again been forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [spoiler=Personally, I'd have thought that Night-Rose Knight would be the best Tuner to use in a Six Samurai deck, since its Special Summon effect prevents a loss of tempo and makes Synchro Summoning easier. And it's even a Warrior-Type.]After a while' date=' a few people actually realized that Crab was not a god[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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