5Ds Japanese/Sub/Manga Official Discussion Thread

[evilfusion]

...son of a **!

 

Well, it depends. If I'm right that he's the Yliaster guy that talked to Rudger, he didn't look like Yusei then. He must have fashioned himself after Yusei after Zero Reverse failed. In which, he went back in time somehow, pushed for Zero Reverse, and then inspected the change in the timeline. There wasn't one, evidently, not one that prevented the Kikoutei apocalypse. Then he researched the last hero of Neo Domino that could convince others to have hope and save themselves with him, but somehow it all blew up and nearly everyone died.

 

Ugh, you're right on everything else for sure. There was so much potential and it was all wasted.

[Sunshine Jesse]

...

Am I the only one who LIKES this twist?

 

EDIT: I mean likes it because it makes ZONE's character somewhat more interesting to me. I already thought Yusei was beyond repair in terms of gary stu-ness and character development :S

[evilfusion]

I like it because ZONE isn't Yusei, which to me felt a little contrived, albeit FASCINATING. I also like that the instigator of Zero Reverse isn't forgotten completely.

 

I hate it because ZONE being Yusei had so much depth and fascination to it that is almost completely removed by the realization that all the set-up and hints amounted to "some guy cosplayed as Yusei to save people, and it didn't work".

 

I'm not enraged, just disappointed. The only thing in the series to trigger rage was Stronghold Guardian's debut.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Stronghold Guardian's debut.

 

Seriously....I support this

[wiithepeople]

Seriously....I support this

Are you sure that's the ONLY bad thing you guys tend to look at in the anime?

 

Anyway I already knew ZONE wasn't Yusei because if he was Yusei, then time paradox lulz would ensue.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Are you sure that's the ONLY bad thing you guys tend to look at in the anime?

 

Anyway I already knew ZONE wasn't Yusei because if he was Yusei, then time paradox lulz would ensue.

 

No I mean the whole Team 5D's Winning against Team Unicorn...that was the Dumbest way to win Ever!

mostly coz it would have been so good for the plot for team 5D's to lose in their first match....>_<

[wiithepeople]

No I mean the whole Team 5D's Winning against Team Unicorn...that was the Dumbest way to win Ever!

mostly coz it would have been so good for the plot for team 5D's to lose in their first match....>_<

 

No that was actually a good way to end the match between 5D's and Uni. Would you rather chickenwuss out and end your turn or be chival and fight? I wouldve fought.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

No that was actually a good way to end the match between 5D's and Uni. Would you rather chickenwuss out and end your turn or be chival and fight? I wouldve fought.

 

I would have won...Doing what Jean did was throw all the effort Jean and Breo put to the Garbage...>_<

 

He knew Yusei was Haxorz...(He manage to beat Breo and almost beating him at that point with barely any card in Deck and its last Life Points...)...so he goes and attacks careless....>_<

 

Better yet I recall he played a Speed Spell....I would have burn Yusei to Death with that...(wait no Dracoesquiste is Hax too...>_<)

XD

 

(And I know that Andore's victory over Aki was made trought a ridiculous Broken card but...)

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

On another note, why do all of the Temporal Machine Gods have giant glowy sparkly faces on them? It's really off-putting to me.

[CDDRodrigo]

I wish Sleeping Giant Thud is released. It would be so pro to play it IRL

[evilfusion]

No, there are plenty of other things I've disliked in the series. But the way Stronghold Guardian was introduced was something that really hit a bad nerve with me.

 

It has nothing to do with Jean's choice of attacking vs ending his turn. It was the buildup, it was the execution, it was everything involving Yusei's last move and Jean's turn. First off, I loved the characters of Team Unicorn. Firstly, they were antagonists for their duel, but they weren't bad guys at all. You know how almost every other duelist that competes with the protagonists have jerkass qualities, but Team Unicorn were friendly, they were regular guys, they didn't have a grudge, they didn't play dirty, they were honorable for the most part. They also were good teammates.

 

They had Andore defeat Jack and Aki, forcing Yusei to defeat all 3 at once. Andore had already demonstrated he was a genius tactician, much like Yusei himself, and that he normally beat an entire team by himself. Through Aki's last move, Yusei managed to swiftly force Andore into a losing situation, so Andore threw his hand onto the field, baiting Yusei to destroy one of the cards, and in doing so, wiped out the rest of his own LP and half of Yusei.

 

Breo took the hot seat and used a deck destruction deck. (Curiously, if Aki would have beaten Andore before, how would Breo duel? It's incredibly difficult to deck two people out) This forced more pressure on Yusei, and Breo was very good at reading Yusei's strategies, but through Junk Destroyer, he beat Breo with just a few cards left in his deck, but he lost 1000 LP in the process.

 

Then Jean came out, and Jean's even better than Breo and Andore. With Yusei's options limited and unable to stall, Jean dismantled most of Yusei's strategies and counters, constantly putting Yusei in danger of losing, only surviving because of Breo's deck destruction.

 

Finally, after Yusei made a comeback and brought out Draco-equites, he was still in a tough spot because of Jean's Trap that restored his lifepoints. Jean even tried to mill the last card in Yusei's deck using Voltic Bicorn, seeing Yusei as coming too close to winning to afford the extra turn (Scrap Iron prevented this).

 

So it came down to Yusei's last move. He first uses Speed World 2 to deal burn, neutralizing Jean's Thousand Cross Trap. Then he used a card to add any monster and any Trap from his Graveyard to his hand. He chooses a 1200 direct attacker, but Jean counters its attack. Yusei puts 2 cards down.

 

HERE'S where it ticked me off. Yusei's last strategy was ungodly convoluted. The card he retrieved with his Speed Spell was a card that reflected Burn damage, and his other card inflicted Burn Damage when a player Summons a monster, which he activated at the start of Jean's turn.

 

Jean knows the identity of both of Yusei's facedowns. They are this Mirror card and Scrap Iron Scarecrow. On his field is Dracoequites in ATK position and his 1200/200 direct attacker. Yusei had no cards in his deck.

 

Jean could have ended his turn and won right there. Yusei would need some sort of BS card designed to prevent himself from losing the following turn.

 

Jean doesn't end his turn. He sees Yusei's plan and uses Speed World 2's destruction effect. Then it turns out Dracoequites can absorb graveyard Dragon Synchro effects, and tributes it to negate the destruction. Jean now must destroy either of Yusei's combo cards or he will lose during the End Phase.

 

So he does. He first uses Tyrant Force. Then he summons Hypnocorn, destroys one of Yusei's cards (but takes 700 from summoning). The score is 300/600. He uses Chain Whirlwind to destroy both Scrap Iron and the Reflection card, dropping the score to 300/300. Yusei is literally out of ways to win.

 

However, characters start going "WTF? Why isn't Jean ending his turn?", and Jean questions whether Yusei still has a plan to win. Then Breo and Andore agree that Jean should go for the direct win, despite his usual philosophy, and he does. Yusei drops Stronghold Guardian and Jean loses 300 LP.

 

The problem is not in the characters. The problem is in the WRITERS. They wrote Yusei into this situation, gave him a convoluted combo that required Jean to WANT to shatter the obvious combo that was next to no threat to him (Jean himself noted the odds of Yusei summoning a monster with 2000+ ATK during his opponent's turn was slim to none), gave Yusei no secret options to ensure his combo's success, had Jean neuter Yusei's strategy, and then had Jean act "OOC" to risk an attack that backfired and cost him the duel.

 

Let's look at this again, though. This wasn't a WRGP match. This was a prelimary match. Losing did not disqualify you. Think of all the good it would have done to have Yusei duel his best, almost pull a victory, but lose. It would demonstrate that Yusei is still only human. He's an excellent duelist, but he's not a god. The whole match involving Team Unicorn showed that without team strategy, you're fighting an uphill battle against a REAL team. He even acknowledged before the duel with Jean that they taught him a lot about Team Strategy, something Team 5Ds wasn't truly prepared with. It also would have made Team Unicorn realistic rivals, as the team they want to overcome.

 

Worse, the writers injure Team Unicorn's best players at the end of the next episode and they're barely ever mentioned again.

 

Yusei's theme throughout the rest of the WRGP was: No matter the odds, Yusei will win. Thankfully, they also had Jack and Crow contribute to the victory strategy, but god, what the hell? Yusei should have lost the duel against Team Unicorn. This moment cemented that Yusei is a boringly invincible duelist who will never, ever lose, and the writers know this. Yusei's theme is overcoming impossible odds, and his duels have always been not "Will Yusei win?" but "How will Yusei win despite a massive disadvantage?"

 

Against Team Taiyo, Yusei had to beat Sleeping Giant Thud, a monster that was seen to be practically invincible. The winning combo ws Jack's Monster Baton with Crow's Bora the Sharp.

 

Against Team Ragnarok, Yusei had to face all 3 Polar Gods. Crow and Jack contributed nothing beyond defeating their respective opponents.

 

Against Team New World, Yusei had to beat Grannel that had absorbed Scar-Red Nova Dragon, and deal with Jose's 12000 LP, and then had to beat Aporia and Cubic. Jack beat Lucciano and Placido, and set a card that was useless until late duel (and had a stupidly conditional effect), and Crow Summoned Blackfeather after losing, leaving Shadow Impulse for Yusei to bring out Stardust.

 

tl;dr: Read IT! This is why Stronghold Guardian's debut is, in my eyes, the WORST moment in 5Ds' history.

[Canadian]

@evilfusion: I couldn't agree more. By having the main character undergo retarded buttpulls and winning all the time, the character developement suffers from a lack of interest or attatchment. It may as well not even have a story or plot but rather have new episodes each week showing how to get out of crazy situations.

 

Even Jaden had more of a developed character than Yusei. It's a shame that they aren't able to salvage this series though :(

[Skyfi]

Now that we know that ZONE isn't Yusei, I'm greatly disappointed. I'm hoping he's the Mysterious Yliaster Guy.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

He IS the Mysterious Yliaster Guy!

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Even Jaden had more of a developed character than Yusei. It's a shame that they aren't able to salvage this series though :(

 

Judai...XD

 

But now that you think about it...Judai was responsible of everything the happened faom season 2 onwards...

[evilfusion]

I normally liked Yusei's combos and comebacks, because they're usually done pretty cleverly and make sense (Yusei's move in episode 24 with Prevention Star and Cosmic Blast made victory almost guaranteed no matter what Aki did, and that was the clever part). The one with Team Unicorn was just a REALLY bad combo that should not have worked at all. Yusei's combo was so bad that Jean literally had to predict the combo (and not act on the instinct it probably wasn't going to work) do a specific move, and then not screw up the combo afterwards. I had had my fingers crossed that Yusei hadn't set the card he retrieved with his Speed Spell, but had set something else to throw Jean completely off his game and win. That would have clever.

[Vector Nightmare]

Tbh, the problem wasn't even that. Sure Yusei got Dragoequites out. I can even accept Jean failing once because his move was a fast retaliation with no time to read the effect, so the damage counter kicked in. But what the hell, didn't he gain access to the monster's data after it was played? Do you expect me to believe that a duelist can't read the effects of the cards his opponent plays? Therefore, the whole not-knowing-it-could-use-Stardust bullshit was just that... bullshit (NOT TO MENTION IT COULDN'T EVEN USE IT ARGHHH ANIME AND YOUR STUPID TRIGGER EFFECTS).

 

Attacking was not the stupid thing Jean did. For all he knew that card in Yusei's hand was another extremely unlikely situational card that enabled him to add another card to his deck, or skip his Draw Phase, or one of the dozens of cards in his Graveyard could do that. WHAT WAS STUPID WAS HIM USING TYRANT FORCE. HE USED PHYPNOCORN, THE F/D DIED, YUSEI'S COMBO WAS BROKEN. Dragoequites is mandatory so when it was Special Summoned, Yusei would take the damage and lose. It wouldn't even go to him decking out.

 

So basically the last turn was "how can we troll Jean better?" when the simple solution would be... TO HAVE YUSEI LOSE. YES DAMNIT, A PROTAGONIST DOESN'T MEAN A PERSON WHO CAN'T LOSE, AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GO INTO THE WHOLE 'ROLE MODEL' BULLSHIT, IS AN UNBEATABLE GUY REALLY A GOOD ROLE MODEL? WE ALL KNOW THAT IRL SOONER OR LATER YOU'LL LOSE, AND IF YOU'RE TRYING TO ACT LIKE A GUY WHO NEVER LOSES, YOU JUST GO 'WTF' THERE, WHEREAS IF THEY WANTED TO USE YUSEI AS AN EXAMPLE, THEY COULD HAVE HIM LOSE, AND SAY 'HEY KIDS, HERE'S WHAT TO DO WHEN THINGS JUST DON'T GO YOUR WAY'. EVEN IF IT WAS A STUPID DUEL WITH EXTREMELY CONTRIVED CRAP THAT TOTALLY DEGRADED JACK AND AKI AS CHARACTERS, IT WOULD'VE STILL BEEN A LOSS DAMNIT. AAAAAAARGH WHO AM I KIDDING IT'S JUST ABOUT SELLING TRADING CARDS ANYWAY.

 

/endrant.

[evilfusion]

What was really sad was, until the last turn, the entire duel with Team Unicorn was epic. It was like the crash after a sugar high.

 

Stronghold Guardian was mildly redeemed when Yusei used it against Harald, because it was less BS-y.

[Vector Nightmare]

What was really sad was, until the last turn, the entire duel with Team Unicorn was epic. It was like the crash after a sugar high.

 

Eh, no.

 

I could live with Jack's loss (though he had another recent one, there was no real need for it at the point), but Aki should've at least gotten rid of Andore. If that had happened then I could live with Yusei beating Jean. Of course the best outcome would be for Jack to lose to Andore but leave something to Aki, then for Aki to beat all three. Or, you know, something that doesn't only involve immense amounts of Yusei-fappery.

[evilfusion]

Eh, no.

 

I could live with Jack's loss (though he had another recent one, there was no real need for it at the point), but Aki should've at least gotten rid of Andore. If that had happened then I could live with Yusei beating Jean. Of course the best outcome would be for Jack to lose to Andore but leave something to Aki, then for Aki to beat all three. Or, you know, something that doesn't only involve immense amounts of Yusei-fappery.

 

I'll rephrase. Starting with Aki summoning Black Rose and Stardust, the duel was epic. Considering this was the first time that Yusei was miracle-pulling to this degree before every WRGP match did it, it was very good by my standards.

[wiithepeople]

I believe that Team 5D's vs Team Taiyou was a well thought out duel.

 

Jack's activation of a card that ultimately screwed him over made me wonder why he was King of Turbo Duels in the first place...I facepalmed when I first saw him do it.

 

The HH-Majin combo was fairly well thought out to be honest. Even though most Stall/Burn decks are laughable at best, HH-Majin makes me want to build a Vanilla Heart Deck revolving around this guy.

 

Ultimately, it was freaking DRAGON CAPTURE JAR that was the star card in the game in my opinion. It allowed Key Mace to stay on the field for the tenth and final turn while all Crow could do was yell out: "TURN ENDODAAAAAA!!"

 

Nemereru Kyōshin Zushin itself looks like the boss monster that seems unstoppable. But being the John Cena-anime-incarnate that he is, Yusei pulled off another spectacular win.

 

It came down to one "Honest" card. That was pretty much the only way to stop Zushin because of Scrum Force. Then (I'm typing this not knowing all these card names right now) Yusei activates a situational trap card allowing Shooting Star to attack again and win. Given what Taro had in store for Yusei, he and Team Taiyou could've won.

[evilfusion]

Jack was stupid in that duel. Unless I'm missing something, he should never have activated Shock Wave. He had just raised Red Demon's Dragon to 4000 and Majin had 3900 Defense. He could have at least attack Majin before using Shock Wave. Again, I may just be ignorant to a condition of Shock Wave.

[Vector Nightmare]

But the trap card that he used to power up his monster prevented him from attacking with it (which makes it stupid and contrived).

 

It was still a stupid move though. Even if it would have worked, it was still worse than other plays Jack could have done, especially with the rest of his team in mind.

[evilfusion]

Then yeah, I overlooked that.

 

Well, to be fair to Jack, he hoped to drop both players to 0, letting Crow take over against Taro. It seemed like a reasonable sacrifice since he had no other way of breaking the stall and they had no clue what the team was doing.

[Phantom Roxas]

I personally thought that Team Taiyou was the best of the WRGP duels. I'm still on the fence about the Aporia duel. We know Jean should have ended his turn, but I'm quite sure that Harald could have won without summoning either of his Wicked Beasts. Summoning both of them is precisely what cost him the duel, so it's another case where simply passing on your turn would lead to victory.

 

As for the twist, there are absolutely no words that can describe that unfathomable stupidity of it. I like villains that have a personal connection to the hero, but making Zone some random guy who decided to look like Yusei for some reason is one of the worst motivations for a villain. They took the best idea of a villain and trashed it for a terrible reveal. Like other people have pointed out, Zone being Yusei could have depth to Yusei's character, as he truly is the one responsible for Zero Reverse. This leads me to the character of Dark Danny from Danny Phantom, who I personally thought was a brilliant display of making the villain the future version of the main character, and his past self develops as a person to prevent the atrocity from happening, ensuring that he doesn't become evil like his future self.

 

Am I really the only one who noticed that Zone could have been Yusei and the Mysterious Yliaster Member if it was done right? Consider this: Future!Yusei gains access to unlimited technology, and to reverse the armageddon that has ruined his world, he decides to place himself as a villain with a plot to stop it, while at the same time presenting himself as an enemy to his past self, allowing his youth to become the person he could not. He approaches Rudger, but considers the possibility of Rudger possibly meeting Zone's counterpart in that timeline, so he alters his appearance so that Rudger would never recognize Yusei and Zone as the same person. Yes, I'm aware that this brings up the question of why didn't Zone just keep up that disguise rather than build a robot body, but that's irrelevant. The point is, this plot twist is incredibly stupid and pointless, and wastes countless amount of build-up that went towards the twist of the Big Bad being the hero's alternate self.

 

In hindsight, I'm a bit grateful that Divine didn't come back like Yami Bakura and Darkness did, since Yoshida could have just trashed his character too. I finally caught up on 5D's, and I was hoping that I could wait until I saw the episode to learn what happened, but being spoiled prematurely doesn't bother me, since this twist is just the absolute nadir of 5D's.

 

I agree with the point that losing to Team Unicorn would have been fine. The Freedom arc was ultimately pointless and a waste of time that should have been gone to developing the over-arching story. Yes, I like characters like Kazama and Sly, but the entire Duel Academy should have been dropped, not to mention the various one-or-two-shot stories that ultimately added nothing. We could have had more time with Team 5D's growing from their loss to Team Unicorn and set up a rematch against them, which could have taken place during the actual tournament by removing Team Taiyou, since I don't think Team Ragnarok should be botched since they ultimately contributed to the team getting to the Arc Cradle.

 

I really wanted to like this series more than GX, and I even liked GX, but 5D's managed to utterly destroy what nearly two years worth of episodes built up to. I always like franchises going higher than they were, and somehow within the span of two episodes 5D's managed to get as close to it's zenith as it did in Season 1, only to fall right back down to the nadir of the Team Unicorn duel.

 

Kazuki Takahashi, here's a word of advice: Never trust Yoshida with any future Yu-Gi-Oh! series ever again.

 

You know, if we really have to complain this much, then that just proves how badly the series failed here. Sometimes, it's better to just not have plot twists.

 

Apparently Yamashita Kenichi was the screenwriter for the episode. I don't know if that matters, so I'm not sure if he's to blame or if Yoshida is still at fault.