The Relevance of Stats to Effect

[「tea.leaf」]

I'm going to putting out a few of my thoughts on the ATK/DEF value of monsters.

 

Personally, since offense really IS the name-of-the-game, ATK holds somewhat more significance than DEF.

 

However, the importance of the ATK of a certain monster is relative to its effect.

 

ATK matters most for monsters with Continuous effects.

 

Example: Jinzo has a solid effect, and its 2400 ATK keeps it on par with the majority of its class. Spell Canceller, on the other hand, has a much more powerful effect of negating Spell cards, but it's below-par ATK of 1800 means it's not likely to say on the field for more than a turn or two. This fact probably contributes most as to why Spell Canceller never saw as much play as Jinzo.

 

However, there are special cases when ATK matters a bit less when it comes to Continuous effects.

 

Example: For Marshmallon and Spirit Reaper, their effects prevent them from dying. These monsters make very solid walls while in defense position. In this case, their lack of ATK/DEF doesn't matter much at all, since their effects protect them and game mechanics protect your precious Life Points.

 

I'll go over the other stuff later, maybe.

 

Talk about it, I suppose.

[Fh-Fh]

Attack does matter, just not all the time.

[bozotehpwns]

Right attack isn't the big factor the effect is, the only time attack should really come into decision making on wether or not to place a card in a deck is, as stated before, if the card has enough attack to stay on the field

[Tabris]

Sometimes ATK/DEF levels matter - tea.leaf's example is a classic argument used by most of us 3-0 advocates in banning Jinzo.

 

Sometimes they don't - just look at Yata and Stein.

[bozotehpwns]

Yeah good point i suppose yata and stein don't need to remain on the field to be broken :P

[「tea.leaf」]

More material added.

[CrabHelmet]

The "more material" is wrong. The ATK and DEF of Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon does matter.

[Fh-Fh]

The "more material" is wrong. The ATK and DEF of Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon does matter.

 

Exactly. Maybe Spirit Reaper if had 2000 ATK, but not really.

[Guest darkgodzilla]

what about cards like labyrinth wall with its 3000 def and 0 atk?

[CrabHelmet]

what about cards like labyrinth wall with its 3000 def and 0 atk?

 

What about them?

[Abstract [Atrocity]]

I kinda see what you're saying; atk does make or break a card. If Canceller had 2400 and jinzo 18, we might see canceller more.

 

Same as if DAD had 0 ATK (in some alternate reality).

It might see less play, because it can get trampled next turn by any monster, and it having no ATK means that swinging for game will require a bit more effeort than a 2800 DAD.

[Tabris]

No - DAD is still broken because it still can cause a +3. It won't matter if DAD is 0 or 2800 - other cards will fill the role DAD had, ATK-wise.

[「tea.leaf」]

The "more material" is wrong. The ATK and DEF of Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon does matter.

 

Reworded for clarity.

[Exiro]

No - DAD is still broken because it still can cause a +3. It won't matter if DAD is 0 or 2800 - other cards will fill the role DAD had' date=' ATK-wise.

[/quote']

 

Star, that's a life lesson for you. Exiro and Cylix ARE broken.

[JesusofChaos™]

Levels also matter a bit now, sometimes more than def

[Skuldur]

atk/def matter espessially when glad beasts are ruling the meta. But effects matter more imo

[CrabHelmet]

Levels also matter a bit now' date=' sometimes more than def

[/quote']

 

Levels have always mattered. If the Monarchs were all Level 7, they wouldn't be nearly as useful.

[Tabris]

Levels also matter a bit now' date=' sometimes more than def

[/quote']

 

Levels have always mattered. If the Monarchs were all Level 7, they wouldn't be nearly as useful.

 

But with TDGS and the advent of semi-spalshable Tuners and Synchros, Levels have become a matter of life and death, sometimes even more so than effects.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

If people have a problem with lolATK then I'll make a 0 ATK deck.

 

Grave Squirmer would love to prove if he's a card worthwhile or not.

[CrabHelmet]

If people have a problem with lolATK then I'll make a 0 ATK deck.

 

Grave Squirmer would love to prove if he's a card worthwhile or not.

 

You do that. I'll be over here, "proving" that effects don't matter by building a Vanilla deck.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I'm not saying effects don't matter, but I'm trying to say that ATK doesn't have to mean nothing. If we did everything based upon effect only, and ignored the stats, then we could have a pile of crap.

 

I guess a better deck would be one where I do just that. But I probably will end up with a lot of crappy monsters.

[Tickle Me Emo]

If people have a problem with lolATK then I'll make a 0 ATK deck.

 

Grave Squirmer would love to prove if he's a card worthwhile or not.

 

You do that. I'll be over here' date=' "proving" that effects don't matter by building a Vanilla deck.

[/quote']

 

I already built a vanilla deck XD

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

DARK LolATK monsters:

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mutant_Mindmaster

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/D.D._Crow

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/D.D._Scout_Plane

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Grave_Squirmer

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Byser_Shock

 

Psychic Jumper could be an LolATK monster, but his effect is situational.

 

Stallers can also be lolATK monsters. Especially like Castle Gate, Gyroid, and the like. Imagine Gyroid with 1800 ATK. Now that is LOL.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

This thread is (hell this whole debate that we semm to have over and over on YCM) pointless. Stats do matter but it's not the only thing in this game. If your deck wins it doesnt matter what stats have the monsters you're running (see P.A.C.M.A.N.). This is a game where you play good cards that go well together and that can make you win duels.

 

Basically it's your win condition that affects the so called lolatk. If you burn your opponent you might only use monster for protection and play spells or traps to damage the opponent. If your deck is beatdown well you'll try to combine strong atk with good effect.

 

I remember the empty jar deck (came 2nd at wolrds) and it wasn't running monsters with high stats but still managed to do incredibly well.

 

Now we have to deal with GB and i got to admit having a strong monster really helps against them, mostly due to the way the deck can control the game. But still, if i can copy DAD with PoC (i said "can" because they have chariot/solemn...) this 0 atk card is amazing.

 

Finally, yes sometimes having weak stats can hurt a card with a good effect (we have a couple good example like spell canceller and fossil dyna pachycephalo) but most of the time it's to make them more balanced and because a good effect like these needs to require some kind of protection or else it would be too "broken".