:: Roleplay Section Improvements Discussion ::

[Hydra of Ages]

BTW this discussion should be carried to the RP forum improvements thread to save Rinne kami-sama a headache.

 

*checks thread*...this is the RP improvements thread... or at least the one I've known through my admittedly short tenure here. Is there another one or something?

 

The reason for a tag isn't for weeding out the applicants AFTER they click the link, it's BEFORE. Also, there's currently no way of telling how advanced a RP is before you click it; I find that a really disorganized method, really. It's a grab bag, you have no clue what you're going to get when you check it.

 

Having an actual tag saying expert would allow people to know, hey, this is a particularly advanced RP before having to even check the rules. Not everyone checks every single RP that is posted, so if they happen to want a very advanced RP like that, they'd be missing out if they didn't click that particular link that wasn't differentiated from the others in any way.

 

See, I think the issue here is that I actually WANT there to be a division. Not animosity between the divisions, but divisions all the same. It makes things a lot easier on everyone, and a lot more clean and organized.

 

I'm willing to grant that people who would play in an Expert RP would be few. But don't you think the option should be open for the few who do want one?

 

(BTW Black, THIS post is about ten lines long. It's really not that long. 13 lines is hardly that many.)

[Blake]

BTW this discussion should be carried to the RP forum improvements thread to save Rinne kami-sama a headache.

 

*checks thread*...this is the RP improvements thread... or at least the one I've known through my admittedly short tenure here. Is there another one or something?

 

The reason for a tag isn't for weeding out the applicants AFTER they click the link' date=' it's BEFORE. Also, there's currently no way of telling how advanced a RP is before you click it; I find that a really disorganized method, really. It's a grab bag, you have no clue what you're going to get when you check it.

 

Having an actual tag saying expert would allow people to know, hey, this is a particularly advanced RP before having to even check the rules. Not everyone checks every single RP that is posted, so if they happen to want a very advanced RP like that, they'd be missing out if they didn't click that particular link that wasn't differentiated from the others in any way.

 

See, I think the issue here is that I actually WANT there to be a division. Not animosity between the divisions, but divisions all the same. It makes things a lot easier on everyone, and a lot more clean and organized.

 

I'm willing to grant that people who would play in an Expert RP would be few. But don't you think the option should be open for the few who do want one?

[/quote']

 

No. Why? The tag system kept flames away, but it is still a hot topic. You will

A. Enrage the Basic RPers, who are 100% still here.

B. Anger people like Senpai who have messed up computers. (Can't post more than like 100 words without not sending it.)

C. Cause it to become 100% Expert eventually OR it will end with no expert.

 

Finally, the animosity is still here, somewhat.

[Otaku-sama]

There should be no tags at all. Reopening old wounds between the common and the elite is as smart as a dog going back to it's own vomit. No beginner RPs should be considered. They are a breeding ground for spammers and noobs do not benefit from basic RPs. If the bar is set low, expect low results. Teaching RPs should be run by elite RPers or maybe even the mods if we are all truely concerned about the new RPers. As for Expert RPs, again no tags. If you want a high quality RP, simply add a stricter rules. If you are forced to add rules, mind as well custom tailor them to your RP.

[Blake]

There should be no tags at all. Reopening old wounds between the common and the elite is as smart as a dog going back to it's own vomit. No beginner RPs should be considered. They are a breeding ground for spammers and noobs do not benefit from basic RPs. If the bar is set low' date=' expect low results. Teaching RPs should be run by elite RPers or maybe even the mods if we are all truely concerned about the new RPers. As for Expert RPs, again no tags. If you want a high quality RP, simply add a stricter rules. If you are forced to add rules, mind as well custom tailor them to your RP.

[/quote']

 

I grew in basic RPs and I am a decent RPer, at least. I cover who, what, when, where, and why, and I post what I am supposed to. Granted, I never behaved like a n00b, but this is my point nonetheless. The proposed Apprentice Clause sounded good to me.

 

(BTW Hydra, You can't do 13 lines on the stars or the scene without BSing, especially in groups.)

[Otaku-sama]

Maybe you grew from Basic RPs, but from what I see is that the noobs who always join the lowest quality RPs consistently (paralell to the Basic RP) tend to stay noob. The tag system is like dictatorship in a way. They both work during a time of war, but during times of peace limit growth. I think that the forum does not need to be retaught the lesson about the tag system. No Basic or Expert RPs. If it ain't broke, don't fix it cause if you do, you'll still haven't fixed and it'll be broken.

[Blake]

Eh... I still think it's not perfect... but it's better than arguments. I'm just sayin' that Expert is a really bad idea, especially in tags, and basic should have 1 or 2 RPs. Not necessarily even 2, just one basic to learn in... somewhat teaching, but with people learning how to do it... Mix a Basic RP With the Apprentice Clause, and BAM! You got teaching starting at Square 1.

[Hydra of Ages]

 

 

No. Why? The tag system kept flames away' date=' but it is still a hot topic. You will

A. Enrage the Basic RPers, who are 100% still here.

B. Anger people like Senpai who have messed up computers. (Can't post more than like 100 words without not sending it.)

C. Cause it to become 100% Expert eventually OR it will end with no expert.

[/quote']

 

A. No they aren't. Basic RPers now have to abide by Advanced Rules, which makes them Advanced RPers. They might not LIKE it, but they still aren't. And if they aren't going by advanced clause, then should we really by tailoring to rulebreakers? Just sayin. Also, they didn't complain about optional Advanced Clause, so why now?

 

B. ? This is a weird one.

Actually my computer's messed up too. It slows down a lot if there's a lot going on in the text editor. I get around it by typing posts in notepad and Copy Past.

 

C. Uhm, Yeah, surrrre.... I have to convince the mods to even have it OPTIONAL, how do you figure it will ever become mandatory?

 

If you want a high quality RP' date=' simply add a stricter rules. If you are forced to add rules, mind as well custom tailor them to your RP.

[/quote']

 

What if I want a high quality RP that people can TELL is a high-quality RP before they click the link?

 

(BTW Hydra' date=' You can't do 13 lines on the stars or the scene without BSing, especially in groups.)

[/quote']

 

Wanna bet?

 

If it ain't broke' date=' don't fix it cause if you do, you'll still haven't fixed and it'll be broken.

[/quote']

 

I'm an inventor by heart, I hate that philosophy.

 

 

-

 

Anyway, I still stand by my guns. Otaku, tags existed before your system. All I want is a return to the original, optional Advanced Clause, except now it's optional Expert Clause. Nobody had any issues then, did they? So why would we have them now?

 

People need to be less touchy about things these days. What can you possibly lose from a system that people have to OPT IN TO?

[Blake]

A. They are here. I know quite a few people who want tags/basic. They aren't basic RPers, but they don't feel like doing Adv. 110% of the time.

B. His computer physicall, per se, CAN'T send long messages.

C. Tag system ring ANY bells?

 

Actually, people HATE the Tag system. They want all Adv. or Basic, most of the time. There were complaints. And you joined way after Otaku, so how would you know?

Also, Make a complicated or long app! That scares away n00bs! No need for a tag.

 

Less touchy? YOU are being touchy. You're whining that you want better RPs. Well, make harder rules and better apps. If you do, the noobs will leave. No need to advertise it.

 

Return to the original? Not a great idea, but could happen! Add Expert? Frick No.

 

Say, let's look at Hayate Masaru, now Primal Fear. His apps are insanely long (I like that). There's a whole other convoluted app for Kekkai Genkai (Naruto) and in depth description of Hollow/Vizard/Shinigami powers. It takes THOUGHT! *Le gasp* And his rules are Adv.

[Tempest Dahlia]

*big breath*

l see it like this. The EC will not work here. The AC was forced down everyone's throat. As it is, very few are happy with it. The majority want it removed or softened. Why continue something when over 50% despise it?

Believe it or not, everyone is on edge. Everyone. Everyone wants something, and sure, we won't all agree. But wouldn't it be smarter to cater to both parties than to shut the majority down and ban any/everyone who dosen't like it?

[sar] Maybe i'm wrong, l dunno. [/sar]

[CinnamonStar]

This is offtopic' date=' but Opal in RPs? *glomps*

 

To be serious, expying a character isn't the best thing to do, because it doesn't allow for a character to develop to the fullest degree that they may. If you're using a Zeke 50 times in 50 different RPs, they're probably just going to follow the same path every time, and that's not good RP habit. However, you do bring up a point. The main thing I look for when detecting expys are names, appearances, and abilities if any. If you're just attached to a name, it's not a huge problem, but you should try to go with different stuff. :3

 

Offtopic again, does this mean you're starting to RP?

[/quote']

 

Yeah.:3

Right so you're just looking if Zeke is not always the same Zeke in every "kinda" Zeke-related RP (I saw a Zeke btw). But if we use kinda similar characters but we're able to make it different and you can see it, we're not going to be shot right?D:

 

OH AND IT'S BRAND NEW, JAW'S THEME SWIMMING!!!

(If it's right I don't need a rep, I already have one.xD)

 

 

Well about the EC, I understand what the idea could bring but...can't it get a different name please?:/ Tbh I've seen a way bigger problem in this section, that people are trying to pull out divisions where there aren't any. People calling themselves legends or elite that aren't really that great and some who call themselves casual RPers but are actually quite good.0_o

IDK some of you (well us now xD) are better than others but it's not like we have a bestseller-winning author among us, right?xD

 

Yeah, "invitation only" sounds a bit better but "expert" stuff again promotes elitism that doesn't have its place here. Or another idea, rename the "AC" you did to just rules enforcements and allow "advanced" tags instead of "expert"?=DDD

 

But I also have one really big concern if it gets implied. IF there's an expert/advanced/whatever tag then I'd love to see something done for the beginners too. Because you can't expect a person who just joined the site and hasn't RPed before to pull off some great 15 line posts. Can't we do it like this, that there are always like...3 or 4 beginner RPs on the site? Like someone suggested already. IMO there should always be 3 or 4 people who host a basic RP and beginners or insecure people can stay there until they feel ready but should also be encouraged to move to standard.

 

Also the special tag shouldn't be earned for nothing, there should be just a few of them and only with Rinne's permission. Just so people know it's more the exception, not the rule.

 

Alternatively, like Rinne-sama said it's also easy to adjust the rules to what you want and make something like, just per invitation or only the best applications will be picked. So people will pay effort to be allowed into the RP. xD I'm going to do that when I'm done with the exams, a RP where there will be an application round (kinda like a contest) and in a second round I will announce who will be picked. I wouldn't do that in every topic though but just sometimes.xD

 

Sure we can't see on first sight that a RP is made for your skill level but then one could also say, do the effort and look through the topics... I'd say when people look through the page they will notice the tags, yes, but I think the first thing that'll grab their attention is the fandom. Like, if I see Twilight I won't join even if it has an awesome-special-expert tag, no doubt about that.

 

Plus once you've spent some time in a section you'll get a grab of who's a better RPer and who isn't. So according to the last posts, if people see a topic made by radio141, Otaku-sama, Marsuvees Black, Blazinghydra or 820, chances are that it'll hold a certain level and not just some kind of n00b hole.

[Hydra of Ages]

Marsuvees Black- I'm not going to bother quoting parts of your post and refuting them like usual because honestly, a good chunk of that particular post had nothing to do with what I want/said. The gist of what I would have said would be, -"I don't CARE about scaring noobs off, since I could just not accept them, what I WANT is to attract higher-level RPers."

 

Also, I'd appreciate if you stop trying to make this into something it's not. I just want a new label to be put into place that people can identify stricter RPs by, instead of this unorganized mess we have now. You seem to be under the impression I'm trying to initiate an RP forum Holocaust.

 

 

Opalmoon- You make a lot of good points. I honestly couldn't care less what it was called (Expert just came first to mind), I just want there to be some semblance of order here, regardless of the form it takes. Redubbing the Advanced Clause would be a fair idea, though I fear it might cause some confusion in people who aren't as news-savvy as others, so I wouldn't suggest it.

 

I do disagree on a couple parts though. While it is true that the fandom is the first thing that grabs people, where does that leave Original Story RPs (which I specialize in), who have no prior fandom to speak of? And even then, there are some fandoms that are done many, many times in RP fashion (Pokemon, Bleach, Naruto, etc.), and often ineffectively, enough so that a fair few people discard them all as fluff. A separate label used to denote a higher standard of quality would help such a Roleplay stand out from the crowd.

Also, while admittedly the name of the Rp creator should be a big hint to the quality, it's still not an effective sorting system.

[Tempest Dahlia]

*yawn*

l don't need anyone to judge how good l am at RPing. l want to do it my way, so long as l don't godmod, spam, things like that. I already know l can RP with the best (not to toot my own horn, just making a point), and l have proven it, but l simply do not want to deal with these stupid advanced rules. Even ifl did want to, l cannot.

Opal, l think that's a great idea. lf rinne ever allows people to have fun basic RP's again, that is where my RP home will be. Screw ratings and site reputation.

[CinnamonStar]

(Well aren't most of the RPs based on a certain genre, even when made up? Usually they have something like "nordic mythology" or "real-life RP" in the title... so people know what they're at most of the time when they skim through the page.

...Well just saying, I think there are good indicators even with overdone fandoms, the title, the person who posted...and also the grammar used in the title. "rise ofthe zombis form hell tat will eat ur cropses KILL TEHM ALL!!!!!(PG-20)" vs "Digimon Rise of the Demon Lords [PG-16/Accepting by PM/Need Sprits] READ PAGE 1" (xD just grabbed a random title that looks sensible and insightful)).

 

But that's for the "alternatively", I kinda like the idea with a tag, even though it has its flaws. But if Rinne and Shadius don't want it (which it seems like atm), there should be the rules thing. Adjust the rules to the required level and limit admittance. Like with an application trial and then only the best can enter the RP. People go a lot by PM invitations too when they need some good RPers.

 

Yeah I wouldn't mind the "advanced clause" being renamed to just rules enforcements or something. Because it isn't really that advanced, I support it because it's mostly rules enforcing to prevent rule-breaking. Like in CC, in Clubs, everywhere. Personally I think it's more the name that scares people off than anything.:/

 

But IDK the RP mods put enough time to make it fit so renaming everything...

[Otaku-sama]

I think that renaming the AC would be very good for the newcomers, who will feel that it is the base standard of the RP forum, which it is. Advanced Clause sounds as if there is a lower clause, when there isn't. Renaming it "DA RULES" or something would make a world of difference for the newcomers.

[Blake]

This is true..

 

And I'm not making it out to be a Holocaust, Hydra, I'm stating what will happen. You are not listening to reason. Who CARES if the n00bs look at your RP OR the "Adv" roleplayers look at it? Let me put it how they taught my little sister. "You get what you get, and you don't pitch a fit." If the tags are added there WILL be uproar. I am not making it out as anything other than what it would be.

[Hydra of Ages]

Very true, and this is a good point -generally-. My point is that I want RPs that go above in beyond -using your own example, Rise of the Demon Lords is a competent RP to be sure, but the average line count certainly isn't 8+. There's almost nothing you can find that would differentiate a competent RP from an an extraordinary RP (Theoretically 'competent' and 'extraordinary', since it of course IS possible that a less detailed RP could be better than a highly detailed RP), which is why I want a label to differentiate them

 

xD, I have no idea why people keep reiterating the rules thing to me. All I want is a label for the -title- of an RP, I'm fully aware I can tailor the rules to my needs. Thing is, the point of such a tag wouldn't be to discourage newbies from joing, it's to send a beacon to people who want to participate in an RP with a deeper plot and higher level of required competence. Of course, there are methods to do so already (via PM and whatnot), but none of them would be nearly as effective or trouble-saving as simply allowing a standardized method to indicate an RP of a high-class.

 

Obviously if Shadius and Rinne are against it, then it won't happen, but that's why I'm trying to make my stance known and perhaps convince them that it would be a harmless convenience that I, and possibly others, would be very thankful for. The way I see it, allowing such a tag to be used wouldn't affect the way anyone else RPs, and they don't need to participate in such RPs if they don't want to, BUT it would help a small minority. Since the equation is small-but-notable gain (+3), and the loss is minimal-to-noexistant at best (-0), the sum total is a gain.

[CinnamonStar]

@_@ *makes calculation* Well yeah...=O

 

Hmm let's say I'm 60% for the tags but like Marsuvees said it WILL cause some uproar...even though I won't agree with it like half of the time but there will be one, considering what the AC needed to go through to be put down.xD

 

But I was thinking, like you said yourself there really aren't many people who are very experienced "high-class" RPers AND who will want to RP with other experienced "high-class" RPers only. So theoretically you could just send a PM to Rinne and ask permission for a certain tag in your title? Since it's not much of a deal and won't happen a lot. Well then again there could be a global permission since we're at it... Blah yeah an "advanced" tag other than "expert" would MAYBE cause less of an uproar...I guess...

 

I don't remember who's for or against what but Rinnu doesn't really seem glad in this thread. But who knows, maybe maybe...

[Hydra of Ages]

Meh, in my opinion, this forum will get into an uproar about any change whatsoever. Trying to appease everyone is impossible. Considering such a tag would require no changes to existing rules whatsoever, and wouldn't really affect the average RPer, I doubt it would make many people that up-in-arms about it. After all, it doesn't affect how they RP, does it?

 

Rinne didn't seem ecstatic about the idea. Shadius has yet to comment.

[Tempest Dahlia]

That's the exact same thing rinne said about the stupid ac.

And look what happened.

[Otaku-sama]

From our circumstances being two mods mostly unwilling to change the rules for anything and the incredibly touchy relations between the left wing (RP freedom) and the right wing (RP form), it would be best just to ask Rinne kami-sama just to allow for a custom title. Any change to the rules always throws up anarchy.

[bury the year]

Hey, if you want an Expert tag in your title, go right ahead. I'm not stopping you. You'll just need to define what said tag means in the thread rules. I'm just not going to add it to the official rules thread.

 

EDIT: Holy flying forks, I didn't see your answer to the album-guessing game, Opalmoon. You're right, anyways, so I'll go find another album. xD

[Tempest Dahlia]

@Otaku, if they just would have left the rules the way they were?

You're right, there was mini-revolts during the tag era. But they were all in dreadful anticipation of the mandatory, forced AC. And the elitism came when members attempted to fight it, and supporters of the AC deemed us automatic n00bs for not assimilating into such a stupid era.

lf the tag system was back, with no threats of changing it, there would be no revolts, and basic/advanced RPers would have nothing more to say to each other.

[Hydra of Ages]

Beh, that's the best I could ask for I guess. I still personally think we should have some standardized method of better organizing RPs, but to be frank, it probably isn't too much of a priority. Oh well.

 

Well, sorry about stirring up old bruises again, guys.

[Tempest Dahlia]

See rinne? All fixed.

 

lt turns out, letting people RP the way they want isn't a bad thing at all! *Le Gasp!*

[Shadow Zero]

going back to the tagged rule would be a good idea, imo.

think about it, a lot of potentially good or great rpers likely aren't even getting started due to the fact that they are currently unable to handle advanced rp format. going back to the tagged rule would allow rpers who are just starting out to learn, and eventually work their way up to the advanced rp's. the only possible risk that i see due to this is the possibility of godmodders potentially increasing, but it might be possible to keep that thread to an absolute minimum if a no modding rule is set forth for all rp threads, basic as well as advanced, with perhaps the exception of people who know each other well enough giving each other permission for a limited amount of character control.