Organization XIII

[Zexaeon]

Yes yes, I'm aware of turn advantage, but if you know you can live through it, it's not as though it's something totally terrible. =/ I'm the type to analyze and analyze some more, weighing pros and cons and what not, but sometimes it just gets to the point where I'm just gonna go with it because over-thinking things gets annoying. If I'm giving them one free attack by switching in, oh well. It's better than leaving Stealth Rocks on the field. If I lose a Pokemon, oh well, if it did its job before fainting I can be happy with that.

---

Bear in mind, though, that I only worry about Stealth Rocks if an important pokemon in my party is weak to it. I see no sense in avoiding Flying types like the plague just because Stealth Rock has been added to the game.

[Deucalion]

In a Garchomp metagame, turn advantage is everything. If your opponent has even 1 turn advantage, they have time to set up a Swords Dance. A Swords Dance Yache Garchomp with 252 attack EVs, will OHKO everything in the game that doesn't 4x resist it or is immune to it with Earthquake (true fact), and is impossible to take down without at least 2 hits (unless you have over 427 special attack and use Ice Beam, or 398 special attack and use Blizzard). So, if you give your opponent +1 turn advantage, you have basically given them a chance to kill two of your Pokemon in exchange for one of theirs, and that is at the best. At the worst (say, in Sandstorm, and Sand Veil kicks in at the wrong time), you have lost the entire match.

[Larxene]

So by your logic....am I 10?

[Deucalion]

Maybe. Depends how cynical I'm feeling.

[Zexaeon]

=/ Again, over-thinking things like that takes fun away from the game. Those may be true facts, but not everything always works out perfectly. Taking down Garchomp is a lot easier than most people think it is, even after setup. I know as much because I have done it on several occasions.

 

My bottom line is that I like to have fun when I play Pokemon. And I'm not having fun if I start fretting over a few number advantages.

[Larxene]

Maybe. Depends how cynical I'm feeling.

 

But I has pics

 

Am I 14 again?

[Deucalion]

Aeon: Ah, but I play to win. Advantage is everything.

 

Also, I see you haven't faced Yache Chomp yet. You can't OHKO it without taking damage unless you a) kill it on the switch (and even then, you need 398+ spec. attack, 334+ speed, and Blizzard), or b) get a critical hit. On the other hand, once Swords Danced, it OHKOs everything in OU except Bronzong, Celebi, Cresselia, and Gliscor. There is a reason Garchomp is being tested for Ubers.

 

Clariex: if you admit you are 14, it's probably alright.

[Larxene]

I'm the world's oldest looking 10 year old =D

 

 

 

[Zexaeon]

-.- I don't need High Special Attack to OHKO it. I have faced Yache chomp, and yes, I cans till OHKO it or THKO without Losing the Pokemon in the process.

[Deucalion]

But that's impossible, as the Yache Berry prevents that from happening.

 

EDIT: Oh, without losing a Pokemon? Nah, you've just had a bad opponent, mate.

[Zexaeon]

-_- You know, there is such a thing as obscure strategies. Just because you've never heard of it, doesn't mean it can't happen. It is quite possible. And trust me, I've had some bad opponents, but this was no bad opponent. I just happen to be a very good opponent.

[Deucalion]

What move did you make, then? In order to 2HKO without being damaged, you'd need a Pokemon with a decent sp. atk and Ice Beam, who is faster than Garchomp, and has a resistance to Earthquake, meaning you can bring it in on the switch. Trouble is, that Pokemon doesn't exist. Closest you get is HP Ice Azelf, or Sceptile.

[Zexaeon]

I never said the Pokemon didn't take damage. I said it didn't die. I can THKO without the user dieing, and I can OHKO, but the user will most likely die immediately afterward. Either way, it gets rid of the Garchomp problem.

[Deucalion]

Yep. If you OHKO, that's one of your Pokemon lost, plus the one Garchomp has already killed, and if you have to 2HKO, the Chomp will just switch. Either way, you lose team advantage/turn advantage.

[Zexaeon]

The chomp will not be able to switch away from the THKO, as it has Persuit to finish the job. The OHKO will likely be killed after it kills Garchomp, true, but Garchomp will not have already killed something before hand. I'm smarter than that. If my opponent is going to use Garchomp, I'm not going to allow it kill anything of mine unless it becomes necessary.

 

Advantage me. Garchomp is acting on my terms, and my opponent doesn't know it till it's too late.

[Deucalion]

Chomp will always kill something in the right hands.

 

Also, Pursuiting a YacheChomp? In order to do enough damage through Yache so that Pursuit can kill it, you must be using a Weavile (stabbed Ice Beam, and stabbed Pursuit). Which automatically shows how bad your opponent is. If they have a Yachechomp, they'll switch out the minute they see a Weavile. Plus, it could be a ScarfChomp, in which case you now have one dead Weavile.

[Zexaeon]

Nope, not Weavile. -_- Something else. And the thing is, I'm not going to tell you what, as it eliminates the element of surprise assuming I ever battle you.

 

I understand that given your cynical nature, you will take that to assume that I'm making this up, but I don't really care about that. I do not use Weavile, and my Pursuit user is more than capable of killing Garchomp on the second hit, and will not itself die. It's actually a relatively simple strategy.

 

But I'll leave it to you to keep guessing what it is. Unless of coarse you battle me outright, in which case you can see for yourself what it is.

[Deucalion]

List of fully evolved, non-Uber, non-Weavile Pokemon which learn a) Ice Beam, and b) Pursuit.

 

359: Absol

206: Dunsparce

477: Dusknoir

419: Floatzel

409: Rampardos

20: Raticate

143: Snorlax

128: Tauros

335: Zangoose

31: Nidoqueen

334: Altaria

279: Peliper

 

It will need to be faster than Swords Dance Chomp, and able to survive at least one hit, or slower than Swords Dance Chomp, and able to survive two hits. It is impossible to survive two hits from a properly EV'd Swords Dance Garchomp unless you resist Dragon AND Ground. This applies to Skarmory and Bronzong only.

 

419: Floatzel (assuming Rain Dance)

 

It's a Floatzel. If it isn't a Floatzel, I stand by my point - your opponent wasn't very good, as they haven't EV'd their YacheChomp properly.

[Larxene]

Apparently this is now a Pokémon discussion club

[Zexaeon]

-_- It is not a Floatzel. I never said I was using Ice Beam.

 

EDIT: o_O My God, Clair is right. This has gotten out of hand. T-T I should feel ashamed of myself for going so off-topic.

[Deucalion]

Alright, a list of Pursuit Pokemon, excluding all the ones mentioned.

 

142: Aerodactyl

15: Beedrill

85: Dodrio

22: Fearow

214: Heracross

107: Hitmonchan

237: Hitmontop

430: Honchkrow

376: Metagross

254: Sceptile

212: Scizor

227: Skarmory

442: Spiritomb

454: Toxicroak

197: Umbreon

416: Vespiquen

469: Yanmega

 

Again, they have to be faster than Chomp.

 

142: Aerodactyl

254: Sceptile

469: Yanmega

 

They can also all survive a switch-in. Any of the above three.

[Zexaeon]

=/ Nope. Dude, you're just not getting it. ^_^ Starts with an "R".

[Deucalion]

Rampardos, Raticate, or Rhyperior? None of those are faster than Chomp, and all will be faster if the Chomp has an SD and ecent EVs.

[Zexaeon]

You were close with that last one. And it doesn't need to be faster. The idea is actually to be slower.

[SushiTheLegend]

I hate you, no really I do. >>