Phantom Phoenix Banned List

[CrabHelmet]

The only Gladiator Beast that should even be considered for banning is Gyzarus' date=' and Limiting a card that can't combo with itself and is searchable by every other monster in its deck - LOLWUT. Also, you've randomly banned Prisma and Limited Test Tiger. Is it your goal to commit genocide against the Gladiator Beasts?

 

The random D-Hero, Monarch, and Six Samurai Limits are hilariously bad, as are the Draw Limits.

 

What makes Cyber Valley so Limit-worthy?

 

Also, you kept Dark Armed Dragon legal. Instant fail.

[/quote']

 

That's one opinion. Murmillo was limited so that you couldn't use Secutor to bring out 2 for field advantage.

 

Secutor will always be able to generate field advantage, and the word "face-up" is why it isn't broken.

 

Bestiari was limited to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. (No pun intended)

 

Killing two birds when only one needs to die is bad. A banlist should keep as many balanced cards legal as possible while removing all broken cards from the game.

 

Bestiari was basically a GB Breaker which could evolve into Gyzarus.

 

Breaker's biggest problems were that it was infinitely splashable and could attack for 1600 after using its effect. Neither of these is true for Bestiari.

 

As for Gyzarus...if you really think it's such a problem' date=' ban that. Next you'll be saying we should ban Proto-Cyber Dragon in order to kill both it and Chimeratech Overdragon with one stone.

 

Lacquer was taken out to deal with Heraklinos.

 

Ban Proto-Cyber Dragon.

 

At any rate, Heraklinos itself is not banworthy, and the fact that you have seen fit to ban three cards used by Gladiator Beasts (one of which supports other decks too) and to Limit two more suggests that you have some sort of personal bias against them rather than any logical basis for removing these cards, particularly given your lack of reasoning.

 

Dark Armed Dragon was limited because now that Dimension Fusion and RFtDD have been stamped on by Konami' date=' it doesn't rival Judgment Dragon and limiting is all it needs.

[/quote']

 

It doesn't rival Judgment Dragoon? Someone hasn't been paying attention to recent SJC's. Also, being less broken than a banworthy card doesn't stop a card from being banworthy. Black Luster Soldier was less banworthy than Chaos Emperor Dragon, but both need to be banned.

 

Dasher was the only D-Hero limited' date=' it caused huge problems with its broken Special Summon effect, so it got limited.

[/quote']

 

What "problems" were these, and what was so "broken" about it?

 

Monarchs were next up in line' date=' so they were punished, Treeeborn was banned and their 2 new top guns, Kuraz and Caius were limited.

[/quote']

 

So you just took a random theme and said, "Hmm, I think I'll punish this theme!", correct? That's not how banlist construction works. You don't attack a theme for the sake of attacking it.

 

Drawing was becoming a huge problem' date=' the speed in it was terrifying, no deck should be able to draw through over half their deck first turn, drawing was punished accordingly. Disk was banned. Valley, Ddraw, Recharge, Trade-In, and ALlure were limited.

[/quote']

 

The only draw card that needs to be hit (i.e. banned) is Allure. D-Draw and Solar Recharge only work in their own themes (the Perfect Circle engine no longer exists with Disk Commander banned), Trade-In requires a saturation of Level 8 monsters (which is an acceptable trade-off), while Valley requires a loss of field advantage and won't work well if just splashed into a random deck. Allure's requirement of DARKs is far too broad and easy to satisfy, especially since DARK is the most supported attribute in the game, and banning it obliterates the format's speed.

 

Think back to why we entered such a fast format in the first place. It's because DAD came along with Allure and said "HEY, GUYS, I WIN GAMES TURN THREE". Of course, since you left DAD legal, this fact seems to have flown over your head.

 

I had to utterly obliterate GBs' date=' since they were blasting all other decks to shreds as new builds were being discovered.

[/quote']

 

First of all, Gladiator Beasts only became good because Dark Armed Dragon forced us into a turbocharged format, and they were the only deck that could cope. Eliminate Dark Armed Dragon, and they can no longer dominate.

 

Second of all, you don't decide to ban/limit a bunch of random cards that a deck uses just because that deck is winning. That is Konami's method. In case you hadn't noticed, Konami is stupid. The banlist exists to remove broken cards from the game, and the only Gladiator Beast that is arguably broken is Gyzarus.

 

Third of all, doing what you did to Gladiator Beasts is comparable to Konami dealing with Goat Control by banning TER, banning Metamorphosis, Limiting Scapegoat, banning Magician of Faith, and banning Tsukuyomi. Even if punishing cards for winning made sense, committing such levels of genocide is indefensible.

 

Shogun and Grandmaster were limited to stop the swarming threat of Six Samurai which would've dominated in the meta had I not put them on here.

 

Show me some reasoning. Failing that' date=' show me the time machine you seem to have.

 

Crush Card was kept limited because I didn't feel it was to the point of banworthy. It also takes care of Monarchs, which were becoming a problem.

 

Keeping Crush Card Virus legal to counter Monarchs is like legalizing Imperial Order to counter DAD. Actually, it's worse, because the Monarchs don't need countering, since they aren't broken, especially with Treeborn and Disk rightfully banned.

 

I feel the cards I added to the list are justified' date=' it would be helpful if anyone could suggest something that should be on here or what to do about DDR

[/quote']

 

You're keeping RFTDD and DMoC legal but worrying about DDR? Ahahaha.

 

P.S: Now that I've banned CoSR' date=' Manticore is no longer a problem and has been unlimited. I've also limited Gravekeeper's Spy.

[/quote']

 

WHY?

 

Flame: Why not? Cards that caused trouble in 3s and aren't quite limit-worthy do exist.

 

Name one.

 

I'll explain this nicely' date=' which Crab and co are unable to do.

[/quote']

 

I could if I wanted to. I just don't want to.

 

Semi'ing does almost nothing to drawing ratios. If a card is semi'd' date=' it might as well be unlimited.

[/quote']

 

That's not why Semi-Limiting is impractical. Go back and read my big explanation of why Semi-Limiting is pointless in more detail.

 

1st bold: I disagree about Heraklinos being fine' date='

[/quote']

 

Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time.

 

and Secutor can still attack defense position monsters without any problems FYI.

 

Aside from loss of LP. Yes' date=' LP matters.

 

2nd bold: Well, it's watered down a lot and Judgment Dragon is still better, compare DAD to Chaos Emperor. With D-Fusion banned and RFtDD limited, it's really not as much of a problem.

 

Compare DAD to Black Luster Soldier. Dropping it to 1 and eliminating some of its support doesn't make it any less banworthy.

 

3rd bold: Not for him' date=' maybe for his opponent.

[/quote']

 

Gene-Warped Warwolf could cause problems for an opponent.

 

Provide reasoning as to why Dasher is bad for the game.

 

4th bold: Raiza already has' date=' and Caius and Kuraz are neck in neck with Raiza.

[/quote']

 

Konami's idiotic moves should have no bearing on the creation of a balanced format.

 

5th bold: Just because GBs are good type and do well' date=' brokenly well, doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

[/quote']

 

Just because CBs are a bad type and do badly, horribly badly, doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

 

Cards aren't banned because they CAN be; they're banned because they NEED to be.

 

6th bold: That's one opinion. I still felt they should be taken out.

 

Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time.

 

7th bold: You're gonna have to say more than just "lol no" if you want me to change my mind about it.

 

But you haven't said anything at all. That's why I've been forced to repeatedly say "Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time".

 

I'll explain this nicely' date=' which Crab and co are unable to do.

 

Semi'ing does [b']almost[/b] nothing to drawing ratios. If a card is semi'd, it might as well be unlimited.

 

Yes, but it does something. It cuts down the draw chance by 33.3333etc.%, which makes all the more impact since I'm cutting down on draw effects, and stops the overabuse of effects like those of Malicious, Necro Gardna, Apprentice, and Spy. Now that you mention it, I think I'll Semi Spy now.

 

>.<

Malicious is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

Necro Gardna is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable' date=' and should be at 3.

 

Apprentice is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

If Gigaplant were Semi'd' date=' it would still be abused.

[/quote']

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

Gravekeeper's Spy is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable' date=' and should be at 3.

 

Semi'ing does nothing to abuse.

 

You got that right. But in your examples, you don't seem to understand what "abuse" means.

 

They do brokenly well because they're dominating the metas.

 

Like Konami' date=' you confuse "doing well" with "being broken".

 

Have you seen herak in action? The fact that it works in your opponent's turn too makes iti cheap.

 

Prove that this makes it bad for the game.

 

It's basically a really easy to summon Horus which has the added feature of destroying traps at the cost of having to discard to negate.

 

Prove that this makes it bad for the game.

 

Then maybe your friend isn't using Dasher properly.

 

You have yet to provide any evidence showing that Dasher is in any way bad for the game.

 

Raiza should be at one because of it's lock and presence and devestation to trib monsters. Monster form of PWWb without discard.

 

"Raiza-Lock" is a joke endorsed by bad players who don't realize that' date=' in a format that doesn't suck like Konami's formats, loss of a draw doesn't equate to loss of game. Also, without Treeborn and Disk, getting constant tributes for "Raiza-Lock" isn't as easy. Also, Raiza does have a "discard" - it's the Tribute you need to summon it, which, without Treeborn and Disk, isn't a freebie.

 

Judgment shouldn't be at 1 because it nukes the field and does 3000 damage, it's practically a CED and its very existence is a disgrace.

 

Yet DAD remains legal, even though it nukes your opponent's field and does 2800 damage, and is splashable.

 

That would utterly pwn Lightsworn XD

 

Yeah' date=' because Lightlords hate having their decks milled, right? Oh, wait.

 

I don't hate GBs,

 

Good joke.

 

I just personally don't think a theme that makes half the current meta decks should be ignored.

 

Your first mistake was allowing the meta to dictate the banlist in the first place.

 

I'm thinking of limiting D.D.R. and Reasoning. All in favor say Aye. ^_^

 

No. Stop Limiting random cards. You're as bad as Konami.

 

1. They have dominated the meta' date=' at US nationals 6 GB decks top 16'd and Chris Bowling won with GBs. For more information: http://www.metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=9762 It's not that I hate GB it's just that I can't ignore decks which destroy the meta.

[/quote']

 

Yes, you can.

 

Also, even if we (wrongly) assume that you can't, if you are so bad at this game that you believe that the only way to "solve" the Gladiator Beast "problem" was to do what you did to Gladiator Beasts, you don't deserve to make any banlists.

 

2. How can you not use Dasher properly? You can select non-Dasher targets when you use Foolish or Armageddon Knight or you can not use his Special Summon effect at the right time.

 

And I still don't see why you think he's so bloody bad for the game' date=' especially since 0 Disk means no Perfect Circle engine.

 

3. Treeborn is banned. That doesn't stop monarchs, click on the link I posted and look at the first deck. It's a monarch deck without Treeborn by Adam Corn.

 

OH MY GOD SOMEONE MADE A DECK NOT CONTAINING TREEBORN BAN EVERY CARD EVER

 

Also, that deck runs DAD.

 

4. I just banned DAD >_>

 

Good.

 

In other news' date=' D.D.R. is now limited.

[/quote']

 

*facepalm*

 

Now' date=' what should be done about Phoenix Wing Wind Blast? I'm thinkin' limit, all in favor say aye.

[/quote']

 

*facepalm*

 

 

 

 

 

OVERALL ANALYSIS:

 

1. You suffer from the delusion that the banlist exists to play "traffic cop" with the meta. It doesn't. It exists to promote skill and remove broken cards.

 

2. You suffer from the delusion that draw ratios are important to the banlist. They aren't. A card that hurts the game at 3 will hurt the game at 2 or 1. It will hurt it less often, but it will still hurt it. There are three exceptions to this, which I have already covered in .:pyramid:.'s banlist topic.

 

3. You suffer from the delusion that every deck that can win must be punished. They don't. Only if something becomes bad for the game by reducing the impact of skill on the game does it become a problem.

 

4. You suffer from the delusion that any mildly playable card must be Limited, such as PWWB or D.D.R., even if these don't harm the game in any way. This is baseless.

 

5. You suffer from the delusion that you can point to a random card, say "it's broked!", and Limit/ban it without providing any reasoning. You're wrong, and this delusion is really starting to annoy me, especially in the case of Dasher.

 

6. You suffer from the delusion that the only way to reduce a deck's effectiveness is to ban all of its key cards, and then Limit a few more just for fun. Don't be stupid.

 

7. You're delusional and fail at making banlists.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

In other news, Overload Fusion is now banned.

 

Btw Crab I'll explain as soon as I update the list with Overload, you may have to wait a abit for the explanation, your long post's going to provoke a long post. How does banning Proto stop Chimeratech, what about the real CyDra? XD

[CrabHelmet]

Why would you ban Overload Fusion instead of Chimeratech Overdragon? Overload Fusion has valid uses for Cyberdark Dragon and Gatling Dragon; Chimeratech Overdragon exists only to OTK.

 

Oh, I forgot, this list isn't good enough to ban Cydra. >_> Fine, pretend I said to ban Proto-Cydra and Cydra in order to stop Chimeratech Overdragon.

[Flame Dragon]

In other news' date=' Overload Fusion is now banned.

[/quote']

The only reason Overload should ever be touched is because of Chimeratech, so if you ban that Overload, and in turn Future Fusion, can be at 3.

[CrabHelmet]

Oh, and when you reply to my post, provide logic that shows that cards like Dasher are bad for the game. If I get anymore of this "LOL UR USIN IT RONG HE IS RUIN GAME", I will be irritated.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

The only Gladiator Beast that should even be considered for banning is Gyzarus' date=' and Limiting a card that can't combo with itself and is searchable by every other monster in its deck - LOLWUT. Also, you've randomly banned Prisma and Limited Test Tiger. Is it your goal to commit genocide against the Gladiator Beasts?

 

The random D-Hero, Monarch, and Six Samurai Limits are hilariously bad, as are the Draw Limits.

 

What makes Cyber Valley so Limit-worthy?

 

Also, you kept Dark Armed Dragon legal. Instant fail.

[/quote']

 

That's one opinion. Murmillo was limited so that you couldn't use Secutor to bring out 2 for field advantage.

 

Secutor will always be able to generate field advantage, and the word "face-up" is why it isn't broken.

 

Face-up is still easy to do.

 

Bestiari was limited to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. (No pun intended)

 

Killing two birds when only one needs to die is bad. A banlist should keep as many balanced cards legal as possible while removing all broken cards from the game.

 

Bestiari was basically a GB Breaker which could evolve into Gyzarus.

 

Breaker's biggest problems were that it was infinitely splashable and could attack for 1600 after using its effect. Neither of these is true for Bestiari.

 

As for Gyzarus...if you really think it's such a problem' date=' ban that. Next you'll be saying we should ban Proto-Cyber Dragon in order to kill both it and Chimeratech Overdragon with one stone.

 

CyDra's better than Proto. What are you talkin' about?

 

Lacquer was taken out to deal with Heraklinos.

 

Ban Proto-Cyber Dragon.

 

At any rate, Heraklinos itself is not banworthy, and the fact that you have seen fit to ban three cards used by Gladiator Beasts (one of which supports other decks too) and to Limit two more suggests that you have some sort of personal bias against them rather than any logical basis for removing these cards, particularly given your lack of reasoning.

 

No.

 

Dark Armed Dragon was limited because now that Dimension Fusion and RFtDD have been stamped on by Konami' date=' it doesn't rival Judgment Dragon and limiting is all it needs.

[/quote']

 

It doesn't rival Judgment Dragoon? Someone hasn't been paying attention to recent SJC's. Also, being less broken than a banworthy card doesn't stop a card from being banworthy. Black Luster Soldier was less banworthy than Chaos Emperor Dragon, but both need to be banned.

 

DAD's banned

 

Dasher was the only D-Hero limited' date=' it caused huge problems with its broken Special Summon effect, so it got limited.

[/quote']

 

What "problems" were these, and what was so "broken" about it?

 

See below. I'm working bottom to top. I've explained too many times.

 

Monarchs were next up in line' date=' so they were punished, Treeeborn was banned and their 2 new top guns, Kuraz and Caius were limited.

[/quote']

 

So you just took a random theme and said, "Hmm, I think I'll punish this theme!", correct? That's not how banlist construction works. You don't attack a theme for the sake of attacking it.

 

You do if it's breaking the hopes for other themes to get in.

 

Drawing was becoming a huge problem' date=' the speed in it was terrifying, no deck should be able to draw through over half their deck first turn, drawing was punished accordingly. Disk was banned. Valley, Ddraw, Recharge, Trade-In, and ALlure were limited.

[/quote']

 

The only draw card that needs to be hit (i.e. banned) is Allure. D-Draw and Solar Recharge only work in their own themes (the Perfect Circle engine no longer exists with Disk Commander banned), Trade-In requires a saturation of Level 8 monsters (which is an acceptable trade-off), while Valley requires a loss of field advantage and won't work well if just splashed into a random deck. Allure's requirement of DARKs is far too broad and easy to satisfy, especially since DARK is the most supported attribute in the game, and banning it obliterates the format's speed.

 

Think back to why we entered such a fast format in the first place. It's because DAD came along with Allure and said "HEY, GUYS, I WIN GAMES TURN THREE". Of course, since you left DAD legal, this fact seems to have flown over your head.

 

It's BANNED. DAD's banned. K?

 

I had to utterly obliterate GBs' date=' since they were blasting all other decks to shreds as new builds were being discovered.

[/quote']

 

First of all, Gladiator Beasts only became good because Dark Armed Dragon forced us into a turbocharged format, and they were the only deck that could cope. Eliminate Dark Armed Dragon, and they can no longer dominate.

 

Second of all, you don't decide to ban/limit a bunch of random cards that a deck uses just because that deck is winning. That is Konami's method. In case you hadn't noticed, Konami is stupid. The banlist exists to remove broken cards from the game, and the only Gladiator Beast that is arguably broken is Gyzarus.

 

Third of all, doing what you did to Gladiator Beasts is comparable to Konami dealing with Goat Control by banning TER, banning Metamorphosis, Limiting Scapegoat, banning Magician of Faith, and banning Tsukuyomi. Even if punishing cards for winning made sense, committing such levels of genocide is indefensible.

 

You know as well as I that banning Herak and Gyzarus would be just like all the other lists which give GBs a chance to recover. Blotching them out completely ensures we'll never see them again, and I think we've all seen more than we've wanted to.

 

Shogun and Grandmaster were limited to stop the swarming threat of Six Samurai which would've dominated in the meta had I not put them on here.

 

Show me some reasoning. Failing that' date=' show me the time machine you seem to have.

 

My time machine is common sense. Have you never seen the way Samurais swarm?

 

Crush Card was kept limited because I didn't feel it was to the point of banworthy. It also takes care of Monarchs, which were becoming a problem.

 

Keeping Crush Card Virus legal to counter Monarchs is like legalizing Imperial Order to counter DAD. Actually, it's worse, because the Monarchs don't need countering, since they aren't broken, especially with Treeborn and Disk rightfully banned.

 

CCV's banned

 

I feel the cards I added to the list are justified' date=' it would be helpful if anyone could suggest something that should be on here or what to do about DDR

[/quote']

 

You're keeping RFTDD and DMoC legal but worrying about DDR? Ahahaha.

 

RFtDDs slower, and although it only lasts one turn, look at all the chainable traps that can stop it and waste you half your LP. DMOC has nothing to do with DDR.

 

P.S: Now that I've banned CoSR' date=' Manticore is no longer a problem and has been unlimited. I've also semi'd Gravekeeper's Spy.

[/quote']

 

WHY?

 

Because of the field advantage they generate in threes.

 

Flame: Why not? Cards that caused trouble in 3s and aren't quite limit-worthy do exist.

 

Name one.

 

RoTA. Malicious. Would be killed if limited' date=' somewhat disabled if Semi'd

 

I'll explain this nicely, which Crab and co are unable to do.

 

I could if I wanted to. I just don't want to.

 

Semi'ing does almost nothing to drawing ratios. If a card is semi'd' date=' it might as well be unlimited.

[/quote']

 

That's not why Semi-Limiting is impractical. Go back and read my big explanation of why Semi-Limiting is pointless in more detail.

 

Semi-ing's not impractical.

 

1st bold: I disagree about Heraklinos being fine' date='

[/quote']

 

Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time.

 

You should know, you banned it on your list.

 

and Secutor can still attack defense position monsters without any problems FYI.

 

Aside from loss of LP. Yes' date=' LP matters.

 

Not much with the speed in which GBs can kill.

 

2nd bold: Well, it's watered down a lot and Judgment Dragon is still better, compare DAD to Chaos Emperor. With D-Fusion banned and RFtDD limited, it's really not as much of a problem.

 

Compare DAD to Black Luster Soldier. Dropping it to 1 and eliminating some of its support doesn't make it any less banworthy.

 

It's banned. DAD is banned.

 

3rd bold: Not for him' date=' maybe for his opponent.

[/quote']

 

Gene-Warped Warwolf could cause problems for an opponent.

 

Provide reasoning as to why Dasher is bad for the game.

 

The field advantage of a free DMOC/Darklord Special Summon.

 

4th bold: Raiza already has' date=' and Caius and Kuraz are neck in neck with Raiza.

[/quote']

 

Konami's idiotic moves should have no bearing on the creation of a balanced format.

 

Limiting Raiza wasn't idiotic.

 

5th bold: Just because GBs are good type and do well' date=' brokenly well, doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

[/quote']

 

Just because CBs are a bad type and do badly, horribly badly, doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

 

Cards aren't banned because they CAN be; they're banned because they NEED to be.

 

Why do you want CBs banned for doing horribly badly? Lolwhut?

 

6th bold: That's one opinion. I still felt they should be taken out.

 

Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time.

 

Samurais have nothing to do with skill' date=' they have to do with luck and people can run them without needing any knowledge of dueling.

 

7th bold: You're gonna have to say more than just "lol no" if you want me to change my mind about it.

 

But you haven't said anything at all. That's why I've been forced to repeatedly say "Feel free to start providing reasoning at any time".

 

I'll explain this nicely' date=' which Crab and co are unable to do.

 

Semi'ing does [b']almost[/b] nothing to drawing ratios. If a card is semi'd, it might as well be unlimited.

 

Yes, but it does something. It cuts down the draw chance by 33.3333etc.%, which makes all the more impact since I'm cutting down on draw effects, and stops the overabuse of effects like those of Malicious, Necro Gardna, Apprentice, and Spy. Now that you mention it, I think I'll Semi Spy now.

 

Let me reword that, I meant bring out too many copies for your opponent to handle.

 

>.<

Malicious is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

Necro Gardna is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable' date=' and should be at 3.

 

Apprentice is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

If Gigaplant were Semi'd' date=' it would still be abused.

[/quote']

 

It's not at all abusable, and should be at 3.

 

Gravekeeper's Spy is still abused.

 

It's not at all abusable' date=' and should be at 3.

 

Semi'ing does nothing to abuse.

 

You got that right. But in your examples, you don't seem to understand what "abuse" means.

 

Semi'ing does however stop cards like Malicious and Spy and Apprentice to bang out Special Summons

 

They do brokenly well because they're dominating the metas.

 

Like Konami' date=' you confuse "doing well" with "being broken".

 

They ARE broken. Destroying the meta is broken, much like the old chaos decks

 

Have you seen herak in action? The fact that it works in your opponent's turn too makes it cheap.

 

Prove that this makes it bad for the game.

 

It makes it very hard to remove, especially if your opponent is cornered.

 

It's basically a really easy to summon Horus which has the added feature of destroying traps at the cost of having to discard to negate.

 

Prove that this makes it bad for the game.

 

What's your opponent supposed to do about it? It's Clear Vice Dragon IMO. If your opponent's in a tight situation' date=' they have to sit there and die. It wins games by itself too much to much, cards that win games by theirselves are bad for the game. You yourself banned it.

 

Then maybe your friend isn't using Dasher properly.

 

You have yet to provide any evidence showing that Dasher is in any way bad for the game.

 

It can Special Summon a monster of any level for huge card advantage and field presence

 

Raiza should be at one because of it's lock and presence and devestation to trib monsters. Monster form of PWWb without discard.

 

"Raiza-Lock" is a joke endorsed by bad players who don't realize that' date=' in a format that doesn't suck like Konami's formats, loss of a draw doesn't equate to loss of game. Also, without Treeborn and Disk, getting constant tributes for "Raiza-Lock" isn't as easy. Also, Raiza does have a "discard" - it's the Tribute you need to summon it, which, without Treeborn and Disk, isn't a freebie.

 

Lock as in locking up your opponent's next draw. And that's all the more reason to limit PWWB.

 

Judgment shouldn't be at 1 because it nukes the field and does 3000 damage, it's practically a CED and its very existence is a disgrace.

 

Yet DAD remains legal, even though it nukes your opponent's field and does 2800 damage, and is splashable.

 

I banned DAD. You can stop bugging me about it now.

 

That would utterly pwn Lightsworn XD

 

Yeah' date=' because Lightlords hate having their decks milled, right? Oh, wait.

 

No, because they'd deck out before you could say LS.

 

I don't hate GBs,

 

Good joke.

 

I don't, really.

 

I just personally don't think a theme that makes half the current meta decks should be ignored.

 

Your first mistake was allowing the meta to dictate the banlist in the first place.

 

What's so bad about that?

 

I'm thinking of limiting D.D.R. and Reasoning. All in favor say Aye. ^_^

 

No. Stop Limiting random cards. You're as bad as Konami.

 

What if the random cards are dangerous when run in multiple copies?

 

1. They have dominated the meta' date=' at US nationals 6 GB decks top 16'd and Chris Bowling won with GBs. For more information: http://www.metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=9762 It's not that I hate GB it's just that I can't ignore decks which destroy the meta.

[/quote']

 

Yes, you can.

 

Also, even if we (wrongly) assume that you can't, if you are so bad at this game that you believe that the only way to "solve" the Gladiator Beast "problem" was to do what you did to Gladiator Beasts, you don't deserve to make any banlists.

 

GB genocide FTW! If I were to ignore GBs and make all the changes I did except for those which targeted GBs, do you think it would be fair for other decks? I don't.

 

2. How can you not use Dasher properly? You can select non-Dasher targets when you use Foolish or Armageddon Knight or you can not use his Special Summon effect at the right time.

 

And I still don't see why you think he's so bloody bad for the game' date=' especially since 0 Disk means no Perfect Circle engine.

 

Free Special Summon of any level is good, look at cards like DMOC, Darklord, Jinzo, need I go on? Special Summoning cards like those makes for scary field presence.

 

3. Treeborn is banned. That doesn't stop monarchs, click on the link I posted and look at the first deck. It's a monarch deck without Treeborn by Adam Corn.

 

OH MY GOD SOMEONE MADE A DECK NOT CONTAINING TREEBORN BAN EVERY CARD EVER

 

Also, that deck runs DAD.

 

XD You're just a walkin' XD machine, I'll consider sigging that. This deck proves that monarchs don't need Treeborn to be good.

 

4. I just banned DAD >_>

 

Good.

 

Yay for banning DAD!

 

In other news' date=' D.D.R. is now limited.

[/quote']

 

*facepalm*

 

I don't see what's so wrong about this, decks can easily change the meaning of RFP pile to the meaning of Graveyard. This is pretty close to Premature IMO.

 

Now' date=' what should be done about Phoenix Wing Wind Blast? I'm thinkin' limit, all in favor say aye.

[/quote']

 

*facepalm*

 

XD I must say, your disses always amuse me. Why not, it's a trap Raiza, Raiza's limited, I made an inference.

 

 

 

OVERALL ANALYSIS:

 

1. You suffer from the delusion that the banlist exists to play "traffic cop" with the meta. It doesn't. It exists to promote skill and remove broken cards.

 

Being a meta traffic cop and promoting skill and removing broken cards are synonymous.

 

2. You suffer from the delusion that draw ratios are important to the banlist. They aren't. A card that hurts the game at 3 will hurt the game at 2 or 1. It will hurt it less often, but it will still hurt it. There are three exceptions to this, which I have already covered in .:pyramid:.'s banlist topic.

 

Yes of course. Konami's completely stupid for banning Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity.

Y'know you should really disable Smilies to stop making pyramid look like his name begins with a demented looking smiley face.

 

3. You suffer from the delusion that every deck that can win must be punished. They don't. Only if something becomes bad for the game by reducing the impact of skill on the game does it become a problem.

 

Monarchs reduce the skill in the game by generating instant card advantage for everyone, no matter the skill level of the user. GBs and DAD reduce the skill in the game by being run by everyone. Samurais reduce the skill in the game by being for lucksacks.

 

4. You suffer from the delusion that any mildly playable card must be Limited, such as PWWB or D.D.R., even if these don't harm the game in any way. This is baseless.

 

D.D.R.=cheap revival that if run in 3s can be dangerous. PWWB is a trap form of Raiza, a limited card, so it makes sense to limit it too.

 

5. You suffer from the delusion that you can point to a random card, say "it's broked!", and Limit/ban it without providing any reasoning. You're wrong, and this delusion is really starting to annoy me, especially in the case of Dasher.

 

Remind you of anyone? http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=133423

Dasher is a free Special Summon for a monster of any level. This means scary card advantage (DMOC, Darklord, Jinzo, need I go on.)

 

6. You suffer from the delusion that the only way to reduce a deck's effectiveness is to ban all of its key cards, and then Limit a few more just for fun. Don't be stupid.

 

How would that not reduce a deck's effectiveness? Themed decks without their key cards are totally unaffective watchu talkin' 'bout Crab?

 

7. You're delusional and fail at making banlists.

 

That's one opinion.

 

Whoever runs Gatling and Cyberdark needs to lrn2play.

[CrabHelmet]

I'm not reading through that mess and trying to distinguish your words from my own.

 

Stop being lazy and use quote tags properly, or at least use bold.

[Flame Dragon]

@Doom Wraith: I'm too lazy to read all that since I don't know what you said, but the few things that I saw that your wrote say DMoC, Darklord, and Jinzo, and, just for the record, those should be banned, banned, and limited respectively.