Don't you hate when someone swarms you?

[tpho]

Then what do you suggest I do if i ever get swarmed?

 

-1 Most of the time i get a dead hand

-I do pack mirror force and lightning vortex

-My opponent often draws solemn judgment on the first turn

-Not every turn I am going to draw a counter trap

 

Atem, you couldn't pick another example besides "your mother is a whore" ? I have a feeling you only did that just to insult me.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Then what do you suggest I do if i ever get swarmed?

 

-1 Most of the time i get a dead hand

-I do pack mirror force and lightning vortex

-My opponent often draws solemn judgment on the first turn

-Not every turn I am going to draw a counter trap

 

Atem' date=' you couldn't pick another example besides "your mother is a whore" ? I have a feeling you only did that just to insult me.

[/quote']

If all else fails, swarm them before they can swarm you. Also, pack tons of draw power cards so you can win before they swarm you to death, it's all about speed, once you get swarmed, there's not much you can do if you don't have MForce or LVortex ready, just try to win or fight off their monsters, do everything you can to stop the swarm. ;)

[tpho]

most of the time i draw my higher level monsters first and rarely any tribute monsters.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

-Most of the time i get a dead hand

 

Deckbuild better. No' date=' really - that's how simple the answer to this one is.

 

Good deckbuilding doesn't mean "build the best (insert theme or style here) deck that you possibly can build."

 

It means "build the best deck for the current situation that the opponents are putting on you." You quite LITERALLY need to make winning in the most effective ways feasible... your only priority.

 

Yes, certain decks get dead hands more often than other decks. These decks are bad decks. Avoid them.

 

-I do pack mirror force and lightning vortex

 

Learn when these cards are NOT called for.

 

-My opponent often draws solemn judgment on the first turn

 

Can't do a damn thing about that. This much is called "bad things happen." Sometimes you're just supposed to lose; the entire game is made such that someone will lose' date=' no matter how well the players play. Yes, even if both players are the best players in the world, both equal in every controllable way, two things will always be different.

 

1) Who goes first

2) Who goes second

 

There is always at least 1 difference. This difference is what makes someone win and someone lose.

 

Now, I've digressed, so let me reel this matter back in; the point is that, sometimes, you're just screwed.

 

-Not every turn I am going to draw a counter trap

 

Again, sometimes you're just screwed.

 

Atem' date=' you couldn't pick another example besides "your mother is a whore" ? I have a feeling you only did that just to insult me.

[/quote']

 

Nah, it was mostly to make sure that the example would elicit some sort of a response, thereby making sure you actually paid attention to it. Namely, it had a hook solely to grab onto you, not to cut you - but to be dangerously close to cutting you, as the closer it was, the more likely it would stick out in your mind as something that even came close.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

You don't have to be screwed, just build a really fast deck and swarm them before they swarm you or OTK them before they swarm you. ^_^

[Pharaoh_Atem]

In the above, we were exclusively discussing cases where the opponent is swarming you. Other cases were left out. Namely, the matter of someone swarming you IS a matter of just "having to be screwed" at times. That's what we were discussing.

 

Telling us "build a fast deck and kill them first" is, really, a stupid thing to do, considering that we already know it.

 

To be honest, at least I stuck to telling him things that he didn't seem to know at all. I don't know how he didn't seem to know them, as they're all very bloody obvious, but he just didn't know them.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

In the above' date=' we were exclusively discussing cases where the opponent is swarming you. Other cases were left out. Namely, the matter of someone swarming you IS a matter of just "having to be screwed" at times. That's what we were discussing.

 

Telling us "build a fast deck and kill them first" is, really, a stupid thing to do, considering that we already know it.

 

To be honest, at least I stuck to telling him things that he didn't seem to know at all. I don't know how he didn't seem to know them, as they're all very bloody obvious, but he just didn't know them.

[/quote']

 

If you have a fast deck they shouldn't be able to swarm you, as the duel will end in the first 2 or 3 turns. I've been experimenting with decks similar to the Tundo FTK. I'd recommend them, they're quite fun. ^_^

[Pharaoh_Atem]

In the above' date=' we were exclusively discussing cases where the opponent is swarming you. Other cases were left out. Namely, the matter of someone swarming you IS a matter of just "having to be screwed" at times. That's what we were discussing.

 

Telling us "build a fast deck and kill them first" is, really, a stupid thing to do, considering that we already know it.

 

To be honest, at least I stuck to telling him things that he didn't seem to know at all. I don't know how he didn't seem to know them, as they're all very bloody obvious, but he just didn't know them.

[/quote']

 

If you have a fast deck they shouldn't be able to swarm you, as the duel will end in the first 2 or 3 turns.

 

You have no idea how fast things are at the top, then - yes, they swarm and/or win that quickly at the top.

 

I've been experimenting with decks similar to the Tundo FTK. I'd recommend them' date=' they're quite fun. ^_^

[/quote']

 

2-3 turns is quite slow for Tundo, or for any FTK, seeing that the F is an essential part of the acronym.

[Lazer Yoshi]

Ok you need to relax. Every post i come to' date=' i see you flaming someone. [/quote']

 

1) You're greatly misguided if you think I'm not already relaxed. The assumption that someone who degrades you *must* "need to relax" is a common assumption amongst overemotional people.

 

Your problem is that you care too much about the internet to be in any place to tell anyone what to do - otherwise, you wouldn't be fool enough to make that assumption in the first place.

 

2) Flames are not facts. I state facts. Facts are often ugly and often piss off other people who don't want to hear them.

 

Now, if I said something like "Your mother's a whore," I'd be flaming your mother - unless she actually is a whore, at which point I'd say that "the best state for her to live in would be Nevada."

 

If I said something like "you're most likely bad at YGO", that wouldn't be a flame - it would be fact, supported by how you're complaining about decktypes that don't stand a bloody chance on any real levels of competition.

 

When did i say torrential tribute is too powerful?

 

You didn't. I never said you said anything of the sort. I never said that anyone in specific said anything of the sort' date=' aside from possibly implying that "bad players" have said such things in the past (thereby landing us in the crappy state we're in at the moment).

 

It is of high likelihood that the majority of the players you play against HAVE indeed said such things, as the majority of players are bad players.

 

You need to relearn some reading comprehension.

 

For posterity's sake, here's what I did say.

 

Welcome to YGO.

 

If you don't like it, stop saying that s*** like "Torrential Tribute" is "too powerful", and that "Scapegoat" should stay where it is.

 

It's dumbassed whining about cards like those two... that got Swarm to where it is at the moment, obviously.

 

Coincedentally, this format's lack of difficulty is EXACTLY why it is 1) easier to swarm, and 2) easier to win with worse decks.

 

That easy swarm, combined with the worse decks' jump in viability, permit the game's bad players to think that this is a "good" format.

 

The thing is, a "good" format is defined by bad players LOSING more often than they do now.

 

and where did scapegoat come out of my post?

 

It didn't. I never said it did anything of the sort. Again' date=' reading comprehension - use it.

 

 

God people, if someone swarms you, they have outplayed you.

 

See, this is exactly what I was talking about - folks always prefer to think that they "outplayed" the opponent, instead of having won solely out of either luck, flaws of the format, or a combination of both.

 

You're honestly an idiot to make such a blanket statement. Several of this format's top techniques involve swarming; all of those techniques are effortless.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to Special Summon a Secutor and then use its effect to fill your field.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to Summon Gyzarus, and then use its effect to fill your field.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to summon 2-3x JD; Lumina can cover easy backup w/ 1 NS.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to summon DAD alongside other DARK monsters.

 

You don't need to outplay anyone in order to swarm. All you need to do is summon a number of monsters and keep them all alive long enough to kill the opp. That's not difficult. That's not outplaying.

 

The ONLY time that swarming could ever qualify as "outplaying" would be a time wherein it is actually difficult. It is not difficult, ergo, you are wrong.

 

 

I have to admit I enjoy the challenge of a Beatdown because they may get too Cocky and I slip in a Mirror Force or something.

 

You "enjoy the (nonexistent) challenge" of a Beatdown because your opponent might be enough of a dumbass to lose a high number of monsters to your Mirror Force?

 

 

swarming is just another win condition' date=' so i cant see why people dont liek it?[/quote']

 

People obviously like it. No, swarming is not a Win Condition, otherwise, the rulebook would say so. Swarming is the means to an end; it gets you TO a Win Condition.

 

Win Conditions are only problematic when they are easy; when it's easy to win, there's no way to prevent bad players from winning at a higher rate.

 

When swarming is easy, it becomes easy to get to a Win Condition. Bad players can only win often when it is easy to get to a Win Condition. Good players can win when it is more difficult. Namely, the game should be difficult solely for the sake of making sure it is the better player that wins.

 

Actualy its like the most popular win condition now... right?

 

As said before' date=' it is not a win condition, but the way to a win condition.

[/quote']

Seriously Dude, stop. You are flaming. Telling someone they are bad at Yugioh doesnt tell them anything. You gotta point out what they need help with, not just a "You suck at this game". People are having a conversation, and, you're worse than Crab. Thats saying something. You really are flaming, there is no doubt.

A way to a win condition is just the same as a win condition. A win condition basically helps you win the game, and the way to it IS helping you.

[Orochi]

@lazerman: report atem if you think he's flaming and leave the fraggin' post alone...

 

i won't say "don't feed the troll" because that is food too... and you, my naive fella, gave him a buffet...

 

@tpho: do you use torrential tribute or you are one of those lame players that says "i don't use TT because it kills my monsters too"??? also you could try to play oppersion gadgets...

[Lazer Yoshi]

Sorry bout that Orochi, got a little carried away

[tpho]

I do use torrential tribute. i just never draw it when i need to.

 

Here's something from my other thread.

If you want to learn ANYTHING of use' date=' don't bother settling for advice and information from just any random folks.

 

Random folks tend to suck at this game.

 

Seek out folks who won a lot in the past.

[/quote']

Basically he is stating all the people who posted above him suck at the game.

 

Just a tip for you. Why are you here when all you do is try to act like you are higher than everyone else? If you're surrounded by idiots go to a different forum. And i agree, you are worse than Crab.

[Orochi]

well, i'm sorry, but i agree with atem, do better deckbuild, and shuffle it better...

[tpho]

I play using the KCVDS which has an auto-matic shuffle system. I do play irl but not often since tournaments are not held near my area.

[Lazer Yoshi]

Well Tpho, I can PM you a great decklist. Might take me a while though. But, yes, better deck is needed.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Use Mirror Force.

[Tickle Me Emo]

If you get killed by a swarming deck you gotta isolate what exactly is killing you and either main or side something to protect yourself. I personally dont run TT or Vortex because it simply slows me down. I still side them in case Im fighting a swarm deck faster than mine. just isolate the problem and find a way to fix it.

[tpho]

Use Mirror Force.

 

Ok there must be a stop to these stupid posts. NO CRAP. Thank you Mr. Obvious. But the problem is, what if i don't draw mirror force, tt, or lightning vortex?

 

anyways the main problem is that i face against an army of monsters with 2200+ attack.

[Orochi]

Well Tpho' date=' I can PM you a great decklist. Might take me a while though. But, yes, better deck is needed.

[/quote']

 

 

bad idea, he must make his own deck, otherwise he won't know how to use it... full netdecking is bad to your health...

[CrabHelmet]

For months, several people with accounts here, including myself, have been telling bad players that they are not good at Yu-Gi-Oh, and this has become socially acceptable. But then the moment Atem informs a poor player of his poor-ness, suddenly it becomes an unacceptable flame and everyone starts whining about it.

 

The key difference seems to be that Atem's analysis is often significantly longer and more in-depth. Therefore, the sensible conclusion is that logic and detailed explanations make things become against the site rules.

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me, guys. I'll start banning anyone who uses any form of logic, or gives any form of explanation for anything.

[Orochi]

why??

[Exiro]

why??

 

If that was a reply to Crab's last sentence, you need a sarcasm detector.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Ok you need to relax. Every post i come to' date=' i see you flaming someone. [/quote']

 

1) You're greatly misguided if you think I'm not already relaxed. The assumption that someone who degrades you *must* "need to relax" is a common assumption amongst overemotional people.

 

Your problem is that you care too much about the internet to be in any place to tell anyone what to do - otherwise, you wouldn't be fool enough to make that assumption in the first place.

 

2) Flames are not facts. I state facts. Facts are often ugly and often piss off other people who don't want to hear them.

 

Now, if I said something like "Your mother's a whore," I'd be flaming your mother - unless she actually is a whore, at which point I'd say that "the best state for her to live in would be Nevada."

 

If I said something like "you're most likely bad at YGO", that wouldn't be a flame - it would be fact, supported by how you're complaining about decktypes that don't stand a bloody chance on any real levels of competition.

 

When did i say torrential tribute is too powerful?

 

You didn't. I never said you said anything of the sort. I never said that anyone in specific said anything of the sort' date=' aside from possibly implying that "bad players" have said such things in the past (thereby landing us in the crappy state we're in at the moment).

 

It is of high likelihood that the majority of the players you play against HAVE indeed said such things, as the majority of players are bad players.

 

You need to relearn some reading comprehension.

 

For posterity's sake, here's what I did say.

 

Welcome to YGO.

 

If you don't like it, stop saying that s*** like "Torrential Tribute" is "too powerful", and that "Scapegoat" should stay where it is.

 

It's dumbassed whining about cards like those two... that got Swarm to where it is at the moment, obviously.

 

Coincedentally, this format's lack of difficulty is EXACTLY why it is 1) easier to swarm, and 2) easier to win with worse decks.

 

That easy swarm, combined with the worse decks' jump in viability, permit the game's bad players to think that this is a "good" format.

 

The thing is, a "good" format is defined by bad players LOSING more often than they do now.

 

and where did scapegoat come out of my post?

 

It didn't. I never said it did anything of the sort. Again' date=' reading comprehension - use it.

 

 

God people, if someone swarms you, they have outplayed you.

 

See, this is exactly what I was talking about - folks always prefer to think that they "outplayed" the opponent, instead of having won solely out of either luck, flaws of the format, or a combination of both.

 

You're honestly an idiot to make such a blanket statement. Several of this format's top techniques involve swarming; all of those techniques are effortless.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to Special Summon a Secutor and then use its effect to fill your field.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to Summon Gyzarus, and then use its effect to fill your field.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to summon 2-3x JD; Lumina can cover easy backup w/ 1 NS.

 

It takes no "ability to outplay" to summon DAD alongside other DARK monsters.

 

You don't need to outplay anyone in order to swarm. All you need to do is summon a number of monsters and keep them all alive long enough to kill the opp. That's not difficult. That's not outplaying.

 

The ONLY time that swarming could ever qualify as "outplaying" would be a time wherein it is actually difficult. It is not difficult, ergo, you are wrong.

 

 

I have to admit I enjoy the challenge of a Beatdown because they may get too Cocky and I slip in a Mirror Force or something.

 

You "enjoy the (nonexistent) challenge" of a Beatdown because your opponent might be enough of a dumbass to lose a high number of monsters to your Mirror Force?

 

 

swarming is just another win condition' date=' so i cant see why people dont liek it?[/quote']

 

People obviously like it. No, swarming is not a Win Condition, otherwise, the rulebook would say so. Swarming is the means to an end; it gets you TO a Win Condition.

 

Win Conditions are only problematic when they are easy; when it's easy to win, there's no way to prevent bad players from winning at a higher rate.

 

When swarming is easy, it becomes easy to get to a Win Condition. Bad players can only win often when it is easy to get to a Win Condition. Good players can win when it is more difficult. Namely, the game should be difficult solely for the sake of making sure it is the better player that wins.

 

Actualy its like the most popular win condition now... right?

 

As said before' date=' it is not a win condition, but the way to a win condition.

[/quote']

Seriously Dude, stop.

 

No.

 

You are flaming.

 

No' date=' I am not.

 

The messages above are not inflammatory, nor abusive, nor any breach of actual internet etiquette. Sure, they might piss YOU off, but that doesn't make it actual flaming - it makes it a message that pisses you off.

 

Telling someone they are bad at Yugioh doesnt tell them anything.

 

Actually, yes, it does.

 

It explicitly tells them one thing, and implicitly tells them several other things.

 

By "explicitly", I mean that it outright tells them something - it's evident right there in the text, spelled out as clear as a cloudless day. By "implicitly", I mean that it directly implies something - something that is made evident by a combination of the text AND the context of the thread.

 

The one thing it explicitly told is "You are bad at YGO."

 

The implicit things told, again, depend upon the thread. Telling someone that they are "bad" only happens when they SHOW that they are bad; people don't make claims of "good" or "bad" unless the claim is already proven.

 

Now, since the person being told "you are bad" has already proven it, the implicit things told MUST RELATE to that proof. Namely, a player is bad because they believe something stupid, misguided, or otherwise harmful to their ability.

 

Telling someone that they are bad... implicitly tells them that "you're shooting your own abilities in the foot, thanks to something you said before. Think sheet over again. If you come to the same conclusion again, you're probably still wrong, and need to do more thinking."

 

So, telling someone that they are bad... tells that person at LEAST two things, not 0 things.

 

You gotta point out what they need help with' date=' not just a "You suck at this game".[/quote']

 

Actually, no, I don't. For you to tell me that I do... is a way for you to force your own personal ethic and behavior on me. Find actual evidence beyond your own personal belief about the situation, and then you'll have a case.

 

Just merely informing someone of their evident flaws... is one of many forms of helping them. What someone does with that help is not my problem, nor my responsibility. They can make the best of it and realize "hey, I'm wrong about something, so let's go back to the drawing board", OR they can say "I'm not wrong so he must be trying to be mean, bawww".

 

People are having a conversation' date='[/quote']

 

And I'm not interrupting it at all - I'm adding to it by telling people about very true flaws.

 

If anything, their choice to not make the best of the situation... is what stands a chance to interrupt the conversation.

 

and' date=' you're worse than Crab. Thats saying something.[/quote']

 

Seeing how I actually explain everything that needs to be explained, and he doesn't, your claim falls apart.

 

I expected Crab to actually be able to handle logic better, seeing how I'm the guy who taught him how to do it in the first place, and also the guy who said it'd be a good idea for him to come here, but I guess he's just another crappy student.

 

You really are flaming' date=' there is no doubt.[/quote']

 

Go look up the definition.

 

The messages above are not inflammatory, nor abusive, nor any breach of actual internet etiquette. Sure, they might piss YOU off, but that doesn't make it actual flaming - it makes it a message that pisses you off.

 

A way to a win condition is just the same as a win condition.

 

The rulebook disagrees. Therefore' date=' you are wrong.

 

A win condition basically helps you win the game,

 

No, it doesn't "help" you win the game. It does all the "winning" for you. Nothing else "wins" anything.

 

Or, at least, so sayeth the rulebook - as it says that the only things that win a game are win conditions.

 

and the way to it IS helping you.

 

The way to a win condition is not the same thing as that win condition itself... at least' date=' so sayeth common sense.

 

 

report atem if you think he's flaming and leave the fraggin' post alone...

 

You're one of the smarter people to enter the thread. Thanks for taking the yoke out of the hands of overemotional folks that look to "try to correct" anyone they take issue with.

 

i won't say "don't feed the troll" because that is food too... and you' date=' my naive fella, gave him a buffet...[/quote']

 

This'd work, except that I'm not a troll.

 

 

Basically he is stating all the people who posted above him suck at the game.

 

No' date=' I'm not. Go read it again. It CLEARLY says:

 

If you want to learn ANYTHING of use, don't bother settling for advice and information from just any random folks.

 

Random folks tend to suck at this game.

 

Seek out folks who won a lot in the past.

 

If I wanted to say "all the people who posted above me in that topic... suck at the game", I'd say "all the people who posted above me in that topic... suck at the game".

 

Stop assuming things based upon what you WANT ME to say. It makes you look stupid AND makes you seem like you're emotional about the situation.

 

Just a tip for you.

 

A tip from someone whose judgment seemingly happens to be spiraling out of control' date=' based upon what he's posted prior?

 

Why are you here when all you do is try to act like you are higher than everyone else?

 

Simple - that's not what I'm doing.

 

I'm not "acting like I'm higher than everyone else". Stop assuming things based upon what you WANT ME to be doing. It makes you look stupid AND makes you seem like you're emotional about the situation.

 

All I'm doing is entering threads, commenting, and leaving. If you have a problem with that, you'll have to cope.

 

And since you seem so emotionally oriented as to repeatedly assume that I believe myself to be higher than the rest of you, I think you have a lot of coping to do - you'd have to do less coping, if you stopped caring so much as to assume such baseless claims.

 

If you're surrounded by idiots go to a different forum.

 

No. Cope.

 

And i agree' date=' you are worse than Crab.[/quote']

 

You'd agree wrongly, then.

[Orochi]

why??

 

If that was a reply to Crab's last sentence' date=' you need a sarcasm detector.

[/quote']

 

 

emmm, no... this was a counterjoke... it's simple, crab said that he was going to ban someone who gives an explanation, so i asked "why" to make crab give an explanation, apply his statement and ban himself... maybe it's not so funny, but it worth the effort...

 

i may need a sarcasm detector, but yours needs to be calibrated... it says "made in malasya" by the way??

[HORUS]

It doesn't annoy me if I'm the one doing the swarming. I run Zombies or Gigaplant among other non-swarm decks.

 

To deal with Swarming, run Torrential, Mirror Force (Radiant Mirror Force for the poorer), Lightning Vortex, even Needle Ceiling.