I made laughing at pojo cool.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

WHOOOOO MAIDEN!

 

(yeah' date=' I'm cross-posting the **** out of this)

[/quote']

 

It has begun... It's times like these that I wish that Omega would just his/her mouth. By the way, which one is it? I've heard conflicting accounts...

 

If you have a problem with Omega, you are mentally impaired in some sort of way, most likely in the way that forces you to care too much about internet matters.

 

It's not so much that I have a problem with Omega, it's that I feel that cross-posting has gotten out of hand. Omega was just the person who caused it this time. I suppose it was a bad choice of words on my part.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Noted.

 

How has crossposting "gotten out of hand"? Didn't you invade in part because of it?

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Noted.

 

How has crossposting "gotten out of hand"? Didn't you invade in part because of it?

 

Well, yes, I suppose. But I've grown tired of it after a while. It's been 4 months since we invaded, and I've started becoming bored. I'm hoping something exciting will occur in the near future.

[Cyber Altair]

pojo sucks, they think E-Hero's are top-tier.

[pizzaman]

I wanna see some of these Chousaitei! I would think that they operate just like what the TCGers call "KSS" - a case of "Konami ga sou itterukara' date=' Because Konami Said So."

 

I don't see how it took so long to make Synchro DAD work. I'd think that some sort of combo between anything + the card noted to be responsible for a lot of a certain format's pain = the first thing folks would try...

 

 

In reference to Konami not playtesting: Doesn't Konami get any complaints sent to them about it? Trust me, this is one point of contention where the TCG is with you OCG boys ALL THE WAY!

 

To put it bluntly, one of the best duelists I'm acquainted with... came up with good reasoning to Prohibit Snipe Hunter, through a lengthy, well reasoned argument. To be honest, there was no way to successfully refute the argument; Snipe, therefore, does deserve the prohibition until the argument is refuted.

 

However, I digress. A friend of that duelist, another one of the best duelists I'm acquainted with... said that "Dark Armed Dragon should be a Fusion of Snipe Hunter and The Winged Dragon of Ra."

 

Considering that the forum that these players frequent... abhors most of the silly parts of gameplay (like the Sangenshin), for them to make a reference to it... means that they mean business about what they say.

 

 

 

In reference to Konami being better about rarities: Folks need to ask themselves about what's different between the OCG and TCG.

 

It is irrefutable that all internationally known evidence points to the TCG having a better Organized Play system, between the mass Regionals, Shonen Jump Championships, Pharaoh Tour Events, Sneak Previews, et cetera. The TCG might have to deal with bullshit changed names and images at times, but I'd take the TCG events over OCG events in an instant.

 

However, these events cost money, and admission cost to them is on a strict not-for-profit basis. Often, it's not even used to pay UDE's costs for the events.

 

UDE has to foot the bill somehow; rarity changes DO drive up demand of the pack as a whole, albeit artificially.

 

 

 

 

In reference to writing effects in Japanese v. Konaminese: Kindly clarify a bit further ~ mou ichidou, kudasai, pizzaman-san.

[/quote']

One great example of a chousaitei is Dark Simorgh.

It looks like it has a Special Summon effect that is similar to Cyber Dragon (= does not make a chain block, comes out from hand etc), but in reality, it's an ignition effect that activates in the hand.

So Solemn Judgment can't stop it, while Divine Wrath can.

And the only way to find this out is by phoning the OCG support line.

 

I hear that Synchro DAD was used by players when it wasn't up on Yugioh Frontier yet, but the card balance in the deck pretty much became solid after it was posted. Also, decks that top Frontier are always targets of netdecking since topping Frontier = has chance in sanctioned tournaments, so I won't be surprised if people who were not interested in Synchros still try and build it.

After all, it's Nats seasons right now, so people are even more serious about winning.

 

I am certain that Konami DOES NOT listen to complaints. Heck, I phoned them once asking about the rulings about Dark Simorgh, and since they asked if I had other questions or opinions about the game, I said that Premature Burial is now on the verge of being broken (I was being nice), because of Brionac loop, Arms Hole etc.

 

All I got was "thank you for your opinions, we'll take it into account when creating the next ban list."

I think they won't, since people have been complaining about the ban list on the hotline ever since it was opened to the public.

 

Ah, so that is why UDE bumps the rarities in the TCG. I forgot how involved UDE was with their players :/

Konami used to do dueling classes at the Konami card game centre, but I heard they stopped doing it now, and the only sneak peek like event we got this year was an event to celebrate the new Starter Deck, with a common-parallel Road Runner given away as a promo :/

I guess Japan is too small to have a lot of organized play, though another reason is Konami not trying enough.

 

As for some Konaminese:

Card Trader: Putting the card back to the deck is a cost, but the text makes it looks like its an effect.

Cyber Ourboros: Text looks like its a compulsory effect, when it is actually an optional effect.

Rampart Blaster: Unlike the TCG ruling, the OCG ruling states that it cannot attack your opponent directly. The reason? It never says it can on the text (this is the actual answer from Konami), even though if it's implied.

Obsidian Dragon: Even if the card text makes it seem like it can stop cards like Lightning Vortex, it can't. The only way to find out is, again, phoning Konami.

[Orochi]

pojo sucks' date=' they think E-Hero's are top-tier.

[/quote']

 

 

 

fusion e-hero or big city??

[A Flying Toaster]

"I made laughing at pojo cool."

 

hahaha. good for you.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

I wanna see some of these Chousaitei! I would think that they operate just like what the TCGers call "KSS" - a case of "Konami ga sou itterukara' date=' Because Konami Said So."

 

I don't see how it took so long to make Synchro DAD work. I'd think that some sort of combo between anything + the card noted to be responsible for a lot of a certain format's pain = the first thing folks would try...

 

 

In reference to Konami not playtesting: Doesn't Konami get any complaints sent to them about it? Trust me, this is one point of contention where the TCG is with you OCG boys ALL THE WAY!

 

To put it bluntly, one of the best duelists I'm acquainted with... came up with good reasoning to Prohibit Snipe Hunter, through a lengthy, well reasoned argument. To be honest, there was no way to successfully refute the argument; Snipe, therefore, does deserve the prohibition until the argument is refuted.

 

However, I digress. A friend of that duelist, another one of the best duelists I'm acquainted with... said that "Dark Armed Dragon should be a Fusion of Snipe Hunter and The Winged Dragon of Ra."

 

Considering that the forum that these players frequent... abhors most of the silly parts of gameplay (like the Sangenshin), for them to make a reference to it... means that they mean business about what they say.

 

 

 

In reference to Konami being better about rarities: Folks need to ask themselves about what's different between the OCG and TCG.

 

It is irrefutable that all internationally known evidence points to the TCG having a better Organized Play system, between the mass Regionals, Shonen Jump Championships, Pharaoh Tour Events, Sneak Previews, et cetera. The TCG might have to deal with bullshit changed names and images at times, but I'd take the TCG events over OCG events in an instant.

 

However, these events cost money, and admission cost to them is on a strict not-for-profit basis. Often, it's not even used to pay UDE's costs for the events.

 

UDE has to foot the bill somehow; rarity changes DO drive up demand of the pack as a whole, albeit artificially.

 

 

 

 

In reference to writing effects in Japanese v. Konaminese: Kindly clarify a bit further ~ mou ichidou, kudasai, pizzaman-san.

[/quote']

One great example of a chousaitei is Dark Simorgh.

It looks like it has a Special Summon effect that is similar to Cyber Dragon (= does not make a chain block, comes out from hand etc), but in reality, it's an ignition effect that activates in the hand.

So Solemn Judgment can't stop it, while Divine Wrath can.

And the only way to find this out is by phoning the OCG support line.

 

I hear that Synchro DAD was used by players when it wasn't up on Yugioh Frontier yet, but the card balance in the deck pretty much became solid after it was posted. Also, decks that top Frontier are always targets of netdecking since topping Frontier = has chance in sanctioned tournaments, so I won't be surprised if people who were not interested in Synchros still try and build it.

After all, it's Nats seasons right now, so people are even more serious about winning.

 

I am certain that Konami DOES NOT listen to complaints. Heck, I phoned them once asking about the rulings about Dark Simorgh, and since they asked if I had other questions or opinions about the game, I said that Premature Burial is now on the verge of being broken (I was being nice), because of Brionac loop, Arms Hole etc.

 

All I got was "thank you for your opinions, we'll take it into account when creating the next ban list."

I think they won't, since people have been complaining about the ban list on the hotline ever since it was opened to the public.

 

Ah, so that is why UDE bumps the rarities in the TCG. I forgot how involved UDE was with their players :/

Konami used to do dueling classes at the Konami card game centre, but I heard they stopped doing it now, and the only sneak peek like event we got this year was an event to celebrate the new Starter Deck, with a common-parallel Road Runner given away as a promo :/

I guess Japan is too small to have a lot of organized play, though another reason is Konami not trying enough.

 

As for some Konaminese:

Card Trader: Putting the card back to the deck is a cost, but the text makes it looks like its an effect.

Cyber Ourboros: Text looks like its a compulsory effect, when it is actually an optional effect.

Rampart Blaster: Unlike the TCG ruling, the OCG ruling states that it cannot attack your opponent directly. The reason? It never says it can on the text (this is the actual answer from Konami), even though if it's implied.

Obsidian Dragon: Even if the card text makes it seem like it can stop cards like Lightning Vortex, it can't. The only way to find out is, again, phoning Konami.

 

I'm confused about your line about Trader. I found the OCG Effect Text, and it's written as something that would translate as:

 

"Once per turn, during your Standby Phase, you can return 1 card from your hand to your Deck, and shuffle it, to draw 1 card."

 

The OCG text makes it look costed, and checking the wiki shows it to be a cost.

 

Are you talking about how the TCG Translation that Konami printed... doesn't have it written as a cost?

 

 

The Ouroboros case is duly noted, as is the Rampart case. Konami knows that Japanese deals with implications a LOT, so for them to say "it implies such, but doesn't do such" is really stretching their liberty.

 

 

Lastly, your case for Obsidian is hurt by the existence of other 対象とする effects out there. Checking around with other cards... we find that there are other 対象とする魔法 effects. Things like Big Shield Gardna, Mid Shield Gardna, and Seirei no Kagami.

 

Since Big and Mid have been translated, and both instances of 対象 in this case... mean "target", Obsidian is bound to prior precedent. Once Seirei comes along, the same will happen to it.

 

 

 

The Simorgh case is slightly disturbing - Konami knows that it writes effects that can't be differentiated. How are we supposed to know?

[pizzaman]

The case for Obsidian is that it is similarly worded to Cyber Phoenix, but it has a different effect. I shouldn't have brought out Vortex as an example, since what Obsidian does is that it cannot negate spells/traps (that target) that will be sent to the grave when activated (= normal/quick-play spells, traps), which really makes no sense.

The reason, according to Konami, is that Obsidian had to negate and destroy. So the normal S/Ts could not be negated since they can't be destroyed after they're done activating.

But checking the Japanese wiki now, it finally seems like Konami has upturned this ruling, thank god.

 

Card Trader isn't worded well, especially when other cards worded like it have it as an effect rather than a cost. Konami is popular for being unclear with what a cost is and what an effect is. For example, when Dark Crusader came out, a lot of people believed it to be an effect, and the discard and ATK up takes places at the same time, but Konami said other wise.

 

I'm not sure about the TCG rulings, but when Trader came out, it was actually ruled that "returning the card" was part of the effect, and Konami changed it a few months later.

 

The case of Simorgh is really an example to show that Konami doesn't seem to care about customers much. This is why we OCG players need to refer to the Wiki so often, and that "bring a laptop to tournaments to see the wiki" is a meme on 2ch.

 

Another Simorgh like example is Elemental Mistress Doriado.

Since no one really uses it, it wasn't discovered until later, but her "treat this card as other attributes" was originally a "rule effect" (like the Harpie naming rules), but was later silently changed to be a continuous effect.

Problem is, Konami does not have a huge rulings page (it's more like a F&Q page), and they do not update it often.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

The case for Obsidian is that it is similarly worded to Cyber Phoenix' date=' but it has a different effect. I shouldn't have brought out Vortex as an example, since what Obsidian does is that it cannot negate spells/traps (that target) that will be sent to the grave when activated (= normal/quick-play spells, traps), which really makes no sense.

The reason, according to Konami, is that Obsidian had to negate and [i']destroy[/i]. So the normal S/Ts could not be negated since they can't be destroyed after they're done activating.

 

This would be a direct contradiction on how all other negate-and-destroy effects work.

 

We wouldn't be able to use negate-and-destroy on ANY CARD that is immediately destroyed by game mechanics.

[Silencerleader]

pojo sucks' date=' they think E-Hero's are top-tier.

[/quote']

 

ROFL...next thing you know, Amazoness will be the top-tier.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

pojo sucks' date=' they think E-Hero's are top-tier.

[/quote']

 

ROFL...next thing you know, Amazoness will be the top-tier.

 

This site has no room to talk when a decent amount of its players believe Oneshot Booster to be a good card.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Wow. A thread to laugh at pojo. Yet, maybe they do deserve it.

[Silencerleader]

Wow. A thread to laugh at pojo. Yet' date=' maybe they do deserve it.

[/quote']

 

Way more than you think...

 

HAHAHA-------To Pojo------->

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Yes, they do, but this place deserves such equally, if not moreso.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Yes' date=' they do, but this place deserves such equally, if not moreso.

[/quote']

 

It all depends Atem. In some cases, I can be really in-observant (if this is a real word) but I don't think I deserve to be laughed at or mocked.

[b7hamma]

This site has no room to talk when a decent amount of its players believe Oneshot Booster to be a good card.

 

Arms Hole

Treeborn Frog

 

YCM

[Purple Dinosaur]

This site has no room to talk when a decent amount of its players believe Oneshot Booster to be a good card.

 

Arms Hole

Treeborn Frog

 

YCM

 

Your point?

[pizzaman]

The case for Obsidian is that it is similarly worded to Cyber Phoenix' date=' but it has a different effect. I shouldn't have brought out Vortex as an example, since what Obsidian does is that it cannot negate spells/traps (that target) that will be sent to the grave when activated (= normal/quick-play spells, traps), which really makes no sense.

The reason, according to Konami, is that Obsidian had to negate and [i']destroy[/i]. So the normal S/Ts could not be negated since they can't be destroyed after they're done activating.

 

This would be a direct contradiction on how all other negate-and-destroy effects work.

 

We wouldn't be able to use negate-and-destroy on ANY CARD that is immediately destroyed by game mechanics.

There you go. THAT is Konaminese at work!

One would expect it to be like other similar cards, but Konami said otherwise a few months ago. It's nice how they changed rulings for it again, but it really did spark confusion back then.