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What we need to discuss about AI art and the beef that it has started


ObexKing

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Now considering the overall controversy surrounding the people who use Ai art and the people who hate using it. Now the main people I'm talking about is @Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan, @Jakkapat, @Problamatico, @Raikoh130, @Galexyvoids, @FriendlyFire675 and myself. The amount of hate from one person against AI art is like this whole big issue that we need to talk about. Now yes AI art is becoming the main thing to use when creating cards, but this is only for people that can't draw or make art themselves. I simply want to create this topic so we can talk about the problems WE have created and find common ground. As long as we continue to hate AI art and hate the people that criticize others for it things will only get worse. So the people that I have named above just talk it out, hell teach each other how to draw, exchange numbers if you have to but don't attack each other because of something so goofy. Thank you.

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If we're talking about this I think it is best to start with why AI art is liked or hated. You already stated that the reason most people use AI art. Not being able to draw is the reason I use AI art. But I also couldn't make my own art if I wanted to. I'm using a school computer and anything art related is blocked due to entertainment or you need to pay for a subscription. I also wouldn't want to crank out a new drawing every time I wanted to post a card. I also understand wanting to create something for yourself instead of having a computer do the work for you. What I don't understand is why other people using it bothers people.

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hey just a protip

before "AI art generator" was a thing (99% of this site's life) people would

Look for art that fit and then credit the artist when possible

Sure sometimes it took a bit more time but if "I want to make cards quickly" is the goal you don't HAVE to use art at all there's plenty of just written cards too

Case in point long ago I made this for an RP

NlOXE4Z.png

just by finding the art through a search

heck I used to find a bunch of art that looked like it could be used for a card and saved it for future use

 

Anyway people's issue with AI art is...well there's a lot to it really. One is that as of now there aren't really generators that don't take things from other people's art without permission or credit. Imagine you work hard on something and then someone just grabs it messes it up a bit and goes "this is mine now"

Then there's the fact that people have lost jobs because "Well I'll just use AI instead of an actual artist" because a lot of companies and people are willing to take the quality drop if it saves a bit of money

If you can't do art you have so many options that aren't entirely negative for artists you can take

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26 minutes ago, LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow said:

hey just a protip

before "AI art generator" was a thing (99% of this site's life) people would

Look for art that fit and then credit the artist when possible

Sure sometimes it took a bit more time but if "I want to make cards quickly" is the goal you don't HAVE to use art at all there's plenty of just written cards too

Case in point long ago I made this for an RP

NlOXE4Z.png

just by finding the art through a search

heck I used to find a bunch of art that looked like it could be used for a card and saved it for future use

 

Anyway people's issue with AI art is...well there's a lot to it really. One is that as of now there aren't really generators that don't take things from other people's art without permission or credit. Imagine you work hard on something and then someone just grabs it messes it up a bit and goes "this is mine now"

Then there's the fact that people have lost jobs because "Well I'll just use AI instead of an actual artist" because a lot of companies and people are willing to take the quality drop if it saves a bit of money

If you can't do art you have so many options that aren't entirely negative for artists you can take

Yes I knowthis but I don't want there to be problems regarding this fact

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I've answered everything in that thread. I will give a brief summary of AI from my point of view. I'm just using it for a little fun. Images in this area As long as it doesn't cause trouble. or used commercially (But if used to make money in the sense This commercial is definitely wrong.) I don't need to get upset about this just because. own personal bias Which is very nonsensical. This area is an area. Everyone joins in the fun of using their imagination to create cards. And as I typed in the previous post. There are many different types of people. I probably don't need to explain it again. And of course I don't have to care because I didn't cause anyone any harm. And this matter is very nonsensical. that you will take care of Let go and move forward happily. Life isn't that difficult. Hope you can understand each other and let everything end in this thread.

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Thank you @Jakkapat. That's what I've been saying as well. I understand that AI can be damaging to an artist's livelyhood, but that only if the AI is used for profit. No one here is a genuine lover of AI. It's only used as a means to bring an idea to life, and present that idea among our peers who share the same passion for this hobby. AI is not my go to for art. I only use it when I can't find art that fits the image i had in mind. I can't afford classes, I can't afford commissions, so why not use something free and eady to use?

And quite frankly, the reason that I get so heated and fed up with this type of discussion is because of @Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan. Ever since I made Spirit Ryu Ascended, he's been on my case simply because of his hate for Spirit monsters. And now it seems he's targeting me and others over this AI nonsense. Even going so far as to name drop me, as if I'm some nagging voice in the back of his head. I did not join this site to be apart of drama, I joined to have fun making cards and sharing ideas. If I wanted drama, I'd be watching Jerry Springer. Why can't we drop this already and go back to having fun?

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I feel I have to say that "just using it for fun" still feeds the generator, still spreads it, still allows it to take more from artists. Its not so simple as "well I don't use it for profit" because it is still allowing AI to grow and take more and more. Not to mention making it more "casual" also comes with the price of people getting more and more okay with it being used elsewhere.

Just trying to give perspective of why people get bothered by it. Not that it excuses certain people going way too far of course.

Edited by LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow
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5 minutes ago, LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow said:

I feel I have to say that "just using it for fun" still feeds the generator, still spreads it, still allows it to take more from artists. Its not so simple as "well I don't use it for profit" because it is still allowing AI to grow and take more and more. Not to mention making it more "casual" also comes with the price of people getting more and more okay with it being used elsewhere.

 

It's better if AI does grow. People aren't going to stop using it just because it has a tendency to steel art. The best thing to do is to help AI grow to a point where it does what it actually creates art instead of copying it.

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4 hours ago, ObexKing said:

Now considering the overall controversy surrounding the people who use Ai art and the people who hate using it. Now the main people I'm talking about is @Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan, @Jakkapat, @Problamatico, @Raikoh130, @Galexyvoids, @FriendlyFire675 and myself. The amount of hate from one person against AI art is like this whole big issue that we need to talk about. Now yes AI art is becoming the main thing to use when creating cards, but this is only for people that can't draw or make art themselves. I simply want to create this topic so we can talk about the problems WE have created and find common ground. As long as we continue to hate AI art and hate the people that criticize others for it things will only get worse. So the people that I have named above just talk it out, hell teach each other how to draw, exchange numbers if you have to but don't attack each other because of something so goofy. Thank you.

Not involved in the drama stuff, and yes, I am against AI but I am also against people yelling at people over it. I already talked to Zama about it in his status. If there's issues, it should be through dms, not in public.

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Just now, Raikoh130 said:

Not involved in the drama stuff, and yes, I am against AI but I am also against people yelling at people over it. I already talked to Zama about it in his status. If there's issues, it should be through dms, not in public.

Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding

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I'd like to give an example of two topics that I regularly play in. The first topic is "Make a Card from Image". In this topic, it's either cards I've made or art images that other people have made. I'm all for using images from real artists, whether in the form of other card games. or from anywhere However, it is really the work of an artist. And another topic that is about making my own cards. In this topic I'll be using all AI images, because it's a card from my own series and I want it to be different from the topic I'm participating in. Of course, the images on the cards that I came up with were unique. (Maybe?) Because I came up with the prompts myself. Of course, AI images are created by learning pre-existing patterns. But isn't the result similar to previous images? And of course I use it to have fun in my topic and just on this website. In the end, I just wanted an image that might be my own to support my ideas, my thoughts, my over-the-top ideas, and that's it. Artists also learn from what has come before. So does AI. The world is changing rapidly. What you should do is let go, accept and learn to change as the era moves forward continuously. If you stay in the same place and don't let go or change, you will have to stay stuck in the past. That's all. If you don't like it, that's your right. But as long as it doesn't cause anyone any trouble. You can just ignore it if you don't like it. I don't see the need to care about it and make myself suffer. Our lives are too short to care or take everything into consideration. Let it go. Then go live your life happily.

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1 minute ago, Jakkapat said:

I'd like to give an example of two topics that I regularly play in. The first topic is "Make a Card from Image". In this topic, it's either cards I've made or art images that other people have made. I'm all for using images from real artists, whether in the form of other card games. or from anywhere However, it is really the work of an artist. And another topic that is about making my own cards. In this topic I'll be using all AI images, because it's a card from my own series and I want it to be different from the topic I'm participating in. Of course, the images on the cards that I came up with were unique. (Maybe?) Because I came up with the prompts myself. Of course, AI images are created by learning pre-existing patterns. But isn't the result similar to previous images? And of course I use it to have fun in my topic and just on this website. In the end, I just wanted an image that might be my own to support my ideas, my thoughts, my over-the-top ideas, and that's it. Artists also learn from what has come before. So does AI. The world is changing rapidly. What you should do is let go, accept and learn to change as the era moves forward continuously. If you stay in the same place and don't let go or change, you will have to stay stuck in the past. That's all. If you don't like it, that's your right. But as long as it doesn't cause anyone any trouble. You can just ignore it if you don't like it. I don't see the need to care about it and make myself suffer. Our lives are too short to care or take everything into consideration. Let it go. Then go live your life happily.

I think there may be some sort of misunderstanding I use AI art all the time I just don't want there to be problems about it.

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6 hours ago, DMZ Dragon said:

It's better if AI does grow. People aren't going to stop using it just because it has a tendency to steel art. The best thing to do is to help AI grow to a point where it does what it actually creates art instead of copying it.

That's not how all of this works you dumbass you probably don't work in a job with Computer Science you probably have no job your probably just some young person that has alot to learn about this world.

Your just a crazy dumbass AI Art Defender you bring no worth and value except being a piece of shit that is garbage and shoves out a bunch of Shit ass AI Generated Images you don't need to be protected or need a space space crap I will be harsh towards you and say the harsh truth you don't wanna hear why would you make a defense for AI Art when its just plagiarism it can't just create art it needs something to leech off you fucking idiot @DMZ Dragon your just the most R*****ed person what your spiting out is shit not facts if your not smart and you have no knowledge on the topic its better to say nothing at all than look like stupid dumbass!

I hate people like you and I wish just wish you where smarter and not just a waste of space on this planet.

Edited by Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan
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1 hour ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

That's not how all of this works you dumbass you probably don't work in a job with Computer Science you probably have no job your probably just some young person that has alot to learn about this world.

Your just a crazy dumbass AI Art Defender you bring no worth and value except being a piece of shit that is garbage and shoves out a bunch of Shit ass AI Generated Images you don't need to be protected or need a space space crap I will be harsh towards you and say the harsh truth you don't wanna hear why would you make a defense for AI Art when its just plagiarism it can't just create art it needs something to leech off you fucking idiot @DMZ Dragon your just the most R*****ed person what your spiting out is shit not facts if your not smart and you have no knowledge on the topic its better to say nothing at all than look like stupid dumbass!

I hate people like you and I wish just wish you where smarter and not just a waste of space on this planet.

WTFBro.thumb.png.9b08396624ad30fb8850a62f4349db0c.png

Your comments are rubbish, disgusting, pathetic, and immature. Like a child who doesn't know how to grow up. You sent me a message just to curse, not to talk for a reason. Which is nonsense, pathetic, disgusting, disgusting, and makes your mother look extremely stupid and asshole. What did you send to me? "Want me to have nightmares, sink into hell, and disappear from the world" just because of me or other people. I think differently than you about AI? lol That looks really stupid, kid. What else? "I wish you ill. I wish you bad luck. I wish you only bad things." My behavior is disgusting." Have you ever noticed? that people whose behavior is disgusting And most pitiful It's you. Not anyone anywhere It's so pitiful that you don't realize how repulsive you are. Who just scolds other people without any reason? You say I'm a person who doesn't have a job? A person who is not important to this world? lol (just saw a different story Is AI not important to the world at all? How retarded?) The government views it as space junk." Well, I'll answer one thing at a time. Today I have a good job to do. And definitely better than you, you pathetic brat, important to the world? Why does it have to be important to the world? Don't you have the brains to think of anything else? I don't know how old you are. But if I were to guess for fun It's probably those stupid, brainless children, no more than 8-13 years old, or if you say you're already an adult. You're just a stupid, brainless, thoughtless adult. and is extremely immature If you don't like it, just move past it. There's no need to act like a fool and keep everything for yourself until you're stressed like crazy. Finally, I hope things between you and me end here. And don't send me such stupid, brainless, obnoxious messages again. I wish you good luck And grow up to be a better person one day. Goodbye and hope we never meet again, little one. May God bless you.

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2 hours ago, Jakkapat said:

Your comments are rubbish, disgusting, pathetic, and immature. Like a child who doesn't know how to grow up. You sent me a message just to curse, not to talk for a reason. Which is nonsense, pathetic, disgusting, disgusting, and makes your mother look extremely stupid and asshole. What did you send to me? "Want me to have nightmares, sink into hell, and disappear from the world" just because of me or other people. I think differently than you about AI? lol That looks really stupid, kid. What else? "I wish you ill. I wish you bad luck. I wish you only bad things." My behavior is disgusting." Have you ever noticed? that people whose behavior is disgusting And most pitiful It's you. Not anyone anywhere It's so pitiful that you don't realize how repulsive you are. Who just scolds other people without any reason? You say I'm a person who doesn't have a job? A person who is not important to this world? lol (just saw a different story Is AI not important to the world at all? How retarded?) The government views it as space junk." Well, I'll answer one thing at a time. Today I have a good job to do. And definitely better than you, you pathetic brat, important to the world? Why does it have to be important to the world? Don't you have the brains to think of anything else? I don't know how old you are. But if I were to guess for fun It's probably those stupid, brainless children, no more than 8-13 years old, or if you say you're already an adult. You're just a stupid, brainless, thoughtless adult. and is extremely immature If you don't like it, just move past it. There's no need to act like a fool and keep everything for yourself until you're stressed like crazy. Finally, I hope things between you and me end here. And don't send me such stupid, brainless, obnoxious messages again. I wish you good luck And grow up to be a better person one day. Goodbye and hope we never meet again, little one. May God bless you.

No your the child you faked that image using AI Art or if not than its like one of those Discord Private Images People like to forge by making the fake BS like of how that person made a fake image of a Discord message they where in no I'm not a child or brainless your the one that is a brain dead fucktard and you are making up stuff and now your attacking people's parents.

I'm just going to leak your response and give it to a twitter user maybe than you will wake the fuck up you are just a stupid retard and they will attack you and criticize you. your just a braindead kid your not an adult you don't work if you did you wouldn't be making up stuff about me.

@LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Even disagreed with your points about AI Art it just being for fun as you said it shows me how much of a fuck up your parents are and you are as a person even a homeless person is better than you even evil governments are better than you your just a pathetic piece of shit.

Edited by Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan
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19 minutes ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

No your the child you faked that image using AI Art or if not than its like one of those Discord Private Images People like to forge by making the fake BS like of how that person made a fake image of a Discord message they where in no I'm not a child or brainless your the one that is a brain dead fucktard and you are making up stuff and now your attacking people's parents.

I'm just going to leak your response and give it to a twitter user maybe than you will wake the fuck up you are just a stupid retard and they will attack you and criticize you. your just a braindead kid your not an adult you don't work if you did you wouldn't be making up stuff about me.

@LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Even disagreed with your points about AI Art it just being for shows me how much of a fuck up your parents are and you are as a person even a homeless person is better than you even evil governments are better than you your just a pathetic piece of shit.

Maybe the stuff you're saying should be put on twitter so you could get cancelled. Just leave people alone.

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1 hour ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

No your the child you faked that image using AI Art or if not than its like one of those Discord Private Images People like to forge by making the fake BS like of how that person made a fake image of a Discord message they where in no I'm not a child or brainless your the one that is a brain dead fucktard and you are making up stuff and now your attacking people's parents.

I'm just going to leak your response and give it to a twitter user maybe than you will wake the fuck up you are just a stupid retard and they will attack you and criticize you. your just a braindead kid your not an adult you don't work if you did you wouldn't be making up stuff about me.

@LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Even disagreed with your points about AI Art it just being for fun as you said it shows me how much of a fuck up your parents are and you are as a person even a homeless person is better than you even evil governments are better than you your just a pathetic piece of shit.

Hey, you moron! I will answer this for the last time. So that I can stop dealing with this liar. Pathetic like you Come say I'm lying Whatever I said, I was lying. You're just a pathetic bastard. who continually accuses others What, I attacked your parents? When do I go to do it? It's very pitiful to make accusations. You're just an immature child. And I'm sorry, what did you say? I'm not an adult because I caused trouble for you. Oh my god, I think your brain has some problems. Or definitely his intelligence is impaired. We originally started having fun making cards in the "Make a Card from Image" thread. We were having so much fun exchanging ideas on how to make new cards, and then suddenly some idiot like you appeared. From nowhere Let's make a good atmosphere. What was built must come crashing down. Even worse, you suddenly came down to me. Even though I didn't do anything to you We didn't even know each other, but you cursed and got mad at me back then just because. My profile picture is of an AI. Have you seen how ugly you are? And how pitiful Suddenly became angry at me Sending messages cursing me even though I didn't do anything for them. Plus they make random accusations. What are you going to put on Twitter? Well, I'd also like to know how true and false you will be. Or just take information that you think is good and use it to attack other people. But I'm guessing it's the latter. Because people like you have the wisdom to do just this. Well, look at your nature. Saying anything else won't get any better. Your nature is so rotten that there is no cure for it. I repeat, from now on you and I don't have to interact with each other again. Goodbye, let's never meet again.

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22 minutes ago, Jakkapat said:

Hey, you moron! I will answer this for the last time. So that I can stop dealing with this liar. Pathetic like you Come say I'm lying Whatever I said, I was lying. You're just a pathetic bastard. who continually accuses others What, I attacked your parents? When do I go to do it? It's very pitiful to make accusations. You're just an immature child. And I'm sorry, what did you say? I'm not an adult because I caused trouble for you. Oh my god, I think your brain has some problems. Or definitely his intelligence is impaired. We originally started having fun making cards in the "Make a Card from Image" thread. We were having so much fun exchanging ideas on how to make new cards, and then suddenly some idiot like you appeared. From nowhere Let's make a good atmosphere. What was built must come crashing down. Even worse, you suddenly came down to me. Even though I didn't do anything to you We didn't even know each other, but you cursed and got mad at me back then just because. My profile picture is of an AI. Have you seen how ugly you are? And how pitiful Suddenly became angry at me Sending messages cursing me even though I didn't do anything for them. Plus they make random accusations. What are you going to put on Twitter? Well, I'd also like to know how true and false you will be. Or just take information that you think is good and use it to attack other people. But I'm guessing it's the latter. Because people like you have the wisdom to do just this. Well, look at your nature. Saying anything else won't get any better. Your nature is so rotten that there is no cure for it. I repeat, from now on you and I don't have to interact with each other again. Goodbye, let's never meet again.

Well I already blocked you now so if your reading this don't bother responding cause your blocked you mutated ugly freak and you belong in the pit with Twitter users if I would have to make a list of one of the most despised users on this site that I despise I would have to put you right at number #1 and you say nasty things about me so I will have to give some of your post to my friends to put up on Twitter to start a hate mob for you you are disgusting attack me like a freak generated sight out of a horror movie, science lab that created some ugly freakzoid, and finally your dad who is Sam Altman from OpenAI who is a theif you are that ugly mutated piece of shit that is from an NTR Hentai that is the big bad ugly bastard character who looks like this:

proxy-image.png.10ac18a07fd08b2f704ad5d8f9d0c11a.png

Your mom is straight out of a horror movie and your dad:

Untitled.thumb.jpg.90d434ad4c6d8e8de5898377c47a862f.jpg

He is not only a thief but a huge asshole and lair he takes advantage of people's kindness for his own gain so if its someone is the fucking moron its you also you've only been on this site since 2024 Sam Altman is your dad that is why your biased towards AI Art that is all I have to say.

But I never want to talk to an AI Freak ever again I will now block you off because your hypocrite you say I'm attacking you but your attacking me by throwing insulating ass words at me your just mad cause I'm calling you out about you lying and pointing out that your defending AI for the sake of it now where done here if you try to respond to me I won't see it.

Now let's hold this as our flag AI Art is poisonous and its the thing that burns my eyes AI Art is ugly as fuck bro.

no_more_by_savebatsfromscratch_dh7oc7h-pre.thumb.jpg.76393576b2b587baef33e779c817250c.jpg

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lol :D This trash bastard is pathetic. Not having the intelligence to respond with reason and effect, he cursed his father, cursed his mother, speculated and cursed other people's appearances that had nothing to do with the topic being discussed. Worse yet, it's still good but its head is stuck in a narrow hole. Who thinks only of himself and thinks that everything in this world must revolve around itself. Plus I only have stupid ideas. To speak and insult other people on the same side as your own. Ahh, that bastard is pathetic. Completely without cure. It would be better if you blocked him so you wouldn't have to know about this pathetic piece of trash again :D.

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Ok, I am going to have to step in now, because this has gotten way out of control.

@Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan Knock it off, and stop going on this immature rant, it's not making you look good at all in front of all these people. The name-calling, the yelling, the insulting of ones families needs to stop. You need to cool off and move on from this. Seriously.

@Jakkapat And as for you, stop engaging in this rant as well. You're acting like a victim but are being just as immature as he is. You also need to cool off and move on as well.

Enough is enough. The forum obviously has had enough of this petty Elementary School arguing, myself included. End this argument and move on already.

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13 minutes ago, Raikoh130 said:

Ok, I am going to have to step in now, because this has gotten way out of control.

@Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan Knock it off, and stop going on this immature rant, it's not making you look good at all in front of all these people. The name-calling, the yelling, the insulting of ones families needs to stop. You need to cool off and move on from this. Seriously.

@Jakkapat And as for you, stop engaging in this rant as well. You're acting like a victim but are being just as immature as he is. You also need to cool off and move on as well.

Enough is enough. The forum obviously has had enough of this petty Elementary School arguing, myself included. End this argument and move on already.

Of course I am a victim. Because he attacked me without knowing me. And I didn't even do anything for it. You're in the card creation thread. You see, he told me he didn't like it just because I used an AI profile picture. After that it spread to my father and mother. It's pathetic. I don't want to waste my time with... This kind of garbage I try to warn him and hope he gets better. Of course, it wouldn't work on such a bad person. And I'm done with this pathetic trash. There is no need to retaliate against such bad people.

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1 hour ago, Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan said:

Well I already blocked you now so if your reading this don't bother responding cause your blocked you mutated ugly freak and you belong in the pit with Twitter users if I would have to make a list of one of the most despised users on this site that I despise I would have to put you right at number #1 and you say nasty things about me so I will have to give some of your post to my friends to put up on Twitter to start a hate mob for you you are disgusting attack me like a freak generated sight out of a horror movie, science lab that created some ugly freakzoid, and finally your dad who is Sam Altman from OpenAI who is a theif you are that ugly mutated piece of shit that is from an NTR Hentai that is the big bad ugly bastard character who looks like this:

proxy-image.png.10ac18a07fd08b2f704ad5d8f9d0c11a.png

Your mom is straight out of a horror movie and your dad:

Untitled.thumb.jpg.90d434ad4c6d8e8de5898377c47a862f.jpg

He is not only a thief but a huge asshole and lair he takes advantage of people's kindness for his own gain so if its someone is the fucking moron its you also you've only been on this site since 2024 Sam Altman is your dad that is why your biased towards AI Art that is all I have to say.

But I never want to talk to an AI Freak ever again I will now block you off because your hypocrite you say I'm attacking you but your attacking me by throwing insulating ass words at me your just mad cause I'm calling you out about you lying and pointing out that your defending AI for the sake of it now where done here if you try to respond to me I won't see it.

Now let's hold this as our flag AI Art is poisonous and its the thing that burns my eyes AI Art is ugly as fuck bro.

no_more_by_savebatsfromscratch_dh7oc7h-pre.thumb.jpg.76393576b2b587baef33e779c817250c.jpg

Seems like you're deflecting. Got some issues at home you need to work out?

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So uh, against my better judgment, I'm dropping in to provide a more rational and measured stance against AI, because lord knows this thread could use one after the nuclear war that just went down in here. I also happen to be a bit of an artist when I've had enough caffeine to will myself into it, so I like to think I can speak from a position of more direct involvement with the issues regarding generative AI. I'd like to start by addressing some other takes on the art theft machine and use thereof first, then try to hopefully provide a bit more insight after.

18 hours ago, DMZ Dragon said:

Not being able to draw is the reason I use AI art. But I also couldn't make my own art if I wanted to. I'm using a school computer and anything art related is blocked due to entertainment or you need to pay for a subscription. I also wouldn't want to crank out a new drawing every time I wanted to post a card.

These excuses are no excuse, just to clear that up right out the gate. A common thread I see in AI art supporters is that they act as if doing art has some prohibitive barrier of entry, be it of skill or of money, when this couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, as a school student, you probably have all the tools you need within arm's reach as you're reading this! All you really need is something to draw on, something to draw with, and at least one body part that can hold the latter. It doesn't even have to be your hands, if you happen to not have hands. Art doesn't have to look good, and it in fact probably won't at first, but nobody starts off good at something. It just has to convey the idea. To quite literally illustrate my point, I doodled this in about eight minutes just based off the name of a custom card I recently re-discovered that I made back in 2014.

Conductor Angel

Now, yes, it looks like crap, but I also did a lot of stuff here that I either don't normally do with art, or that I've never done. My art is usually a lot better than this (and no, I'm not sharing it here). Plus, it's more to make the point, so I'm not too fussy about it looking good to be quite honest. That point being, my motor functions are impaired by autism, and I can still make something legible in less than ten minutes, with zero training or education on art, and only a small bit of on-and-off practice under my belt. Anyone can draw, and honestly, it's way more fun than typing some words and pushing the art theft button.

I'm speaking from a non-zero amount of first-hand experience on this one, and I added an extra line break here to further emphasize how important that statement is in this context.

18 hours ago, DMZ Dragon said:

What I don't understand is why other people using it bothers people.

And this is where I really get to shine as an artist! So, the short of it is that the training given to generative models is, for the most part, extremely unethical.

The slightly longer version is, these models were trained off art scraped up from sites like Twitter, Pixiv, DeviantArt, etc, but none of it was taken with the permission of the artists in question. Not only is this overall a very scummy move, since it's basically piggybacking off someone's years spent honing a craft they're proud of (except instead of someone it's some millions), but it could actually constitute intellectual property violations and/or copyright infringement. The exact legality of it all is still not settled, of course, but hopefully pointing out the ethical issue in greater detail helped shed some light on this particular question. Cow already did this, but I figured I should re-iterate it with my own perspective and more words, as someone whose stuff is potentially getting stolen without my knowledge or consent as I'm typing this sentence. I wish I could draw up a parallel for another hobby you can more directly relate to, but I've got nothing to work with there.

16 hours ago, Jakkapat said:

I've answered everything in that thread. I will give a brief summary of AI from my point of view. I'm just using it for a little fun. Images in this area As long as it doesn't cause trouble. or used commercially (But if used to make money in the sense This commercial is definitely wrong.) I don't need to get upset about this just because. own personal bias Which is very nonsensical. This area is an area. Everyone joins in the fun of using their imagination to create cards. And as I typed in the previous post. There are many different types of people. I probably don't need to explain it again. And of course I don't have to care because I didn't cause anyone any harm. And this matter is very nonsensical. that you will take care of Let go and move forward happily. Life isn't that difficult. Hope you can understand each other and let everything end in this thread.

This is more or less the most respectable stance I've seen from people who use AI art. As much as it pains me to say it though, even though you don't mean any harm, any use of generative AI does still cause a non-zero amount of it. Again, these are points Cow already brought up, but the more an AI gets used, the more it can learn and correct its shortcomings. Not to mention, pushing the button does mean the machine once again combs over its libraries of unethically-sourced art. It would be like getting a cookie by pushing a button, but every time you do, a small handful of randomly-selected mice (or some other tiny creature, if you don't like mice) get a quick electric shock. You're not gonna kill anyone, but this metaphorical cookie factory does make life a lot harder for your small animal of choice. Even if this site's generator was removed entirely, it would still amount to a drop in the ocean at best, but it's not an ocean worth swimming in to begin with. If you still can't find yourself willing (because you are able) to pick up doing it yourself, you could always post cards in a purely-written format. Once upon a time, this forum even had a dedicated section just for that!

This thread has definitely gotten nonsensical in no time flat, but hopefully this sensical post helped give some new perspective on why AI is such a touchy subject, and why people who understand the details generally tell others not to use it.

16 hours ago, Problamatico said:

Thank you @Jakkapat. That's what I've been saying as well. I understand that AI can be damaging to an artist's livelyhood, but that only if the AI is used for profit. No one here is a genuine lover of AI. It's only used as a means to bring an idea to life, and present that idea among our peers who share the same passion for this hobby. AI is not my go to for art. I only use it when I can't find art that fits the image i had in mind. I can't afford classes, I can't afford commissions, so why not use something free and eady to use?

And quite frankly, the reason that I get so heated and fed up with this type of discussion is because of @Zamazenta the OS-Tan Fan. Ever since I made Spirit Ryu Ascended, he's been on my case simply because of his hate for Spirit monsters. And now it seems he's targeting me and others over this AI nonsense. Even going so far as to name drop me, as if I'm some nagging voice in the back of his head. I did not join this site to be apart of drama, I joined to have fun making cards and sharing ideas. If I wanted drama, I'd be watching Jerry Springer. Why can't we drop this already and go back to having fun?

You could present the idea without the use of AI art, is the crux of the problem. You've more or less got your head in the right place at least, so hopefully some of the junk I typed over the rest of this post ends up clicking with you in some way. Or, if you can't be bothered to read all that (I understand that too; I've been behind this keyboard for way too long at present and I'd like to wrap up my post now), I'd like this to be your one takeaway. You don't need classes to be a good artist. Literally the only thing I was taught about how to draw was a friend telling me on Discord "your strokes will look cleaner if you do them faster", and everything else beyond that is purely self-taught. Your hands are free and easy to use, too. On the note of these discussions getting heated... yeah. Please don't mistake some certain individuals as representing anti-AI sentiment as a whole.

As for my own opinions, there's not really much to discuss that I haven't already covered. I'm an artist myself. Not a good one, but I take some pride in my work all the same. So naturally, I don't like the idea that my hobby that I do for fun is being put under attack by a machine that fundamentally can't understand not just what art is, but why art is. And I just do it for fun, mind you. There are people who draw, animate, and so on, for a living, and this could very well put their livelihoods at risk if the machine gets good enough at it. So, seeing people use it - even if it's just for fun - doesn't sit well with me. Personally, I'd rather see a total piece of crap drawing made by a human being with love, as opposed to a soulless masterpiece calculated up by a computer that just sees it all as numbers and tags. But I've been drawing since before AI took off, and am probably older than any two non-Cow people in this thread combined, so what do I know?

Edited by Yui
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