drowsyCoffee Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 It’s been a while, innit? Kinda havent been particularly in the mood for YuGiOh for quite some time, mainly just playing a few customs on DB here and there to get my feel of cardmaking shenanigans In any case, now that im back, i guess its time to get making some cards. Like every time i do come back, today i’ve decided to do the foolish decision of just trying to somehow make an archetype with next to no time to heat up and get used to this whole designing thing. Fun Quite some years ago, when i first joined this site, i kinda made a whole lot of cards that werent ever posted anywhere just for the sake of doing so. Today’s archetype its kind of a different take on one of the many groups of cards i’ve tried to make, the Ocasos, a whole deck made with the purpose of summoning Sky Scourge Norleras which, at the time, was quite a win con Originally, this idea was kind of something my dad suggested, and in his usual jank loving style, a lot of the ideas i got from em were kinda god awful. Like making the already convoluted archetype concept a ritual archetype. Yeah, not going there. In any case, what im trying to say is that the whole thing im gonna make today kinda deviates from the original idea to have a bit more of a modern feel to it First, the general concept. The whole idea of this archetype is to be made entirely of Light Fairy and Dark Fiend cards, to be able to use those for the sake of summoning the Sky Scourges, a series of monsters that can be summoned either by banishing those monsters on your GY, or that gain effects depending on wether they were summoned with Fairies or Fiends as their tributes. Since the idea of running just a bunch of bricks in the original Sky Scourges wasnt really appealing, imma just make some Extra Deck retrains of em, based again on the original monsters, though some of them, in particular, Invincil, are totally still worth playing Since 2 of your 3 Sky Scourges (Not counting the searcher/extender one) were centered in blowing up opponent cards, at first i kinda thought of making this deck kind of a Going Second strategy, hoping to somehow squeeze a Norleras through an established board and just plusing to infinity by wiping it out. I kinda decided against it after considering how hard it would be to design a deck made to play through interactions, given how bad i am at making anything not control-centric, and instead have that as kind of a secondary win con, a plan B of sorts a la Bagooska in case everything else fails As for the naming scheme for the non-Sky Scourge cards, I gotta be honest to ya, I’ve just spend a lot of time digging through things like Wikipedia, and in the end, the best names ended up coming from f*cking MGQ Paradox of all things. The sheer anger I feel is incommensurable With my usual, unnecessary, long winded rant out of the way, here’s the cards First, as ya should always do when designing an archetype, the Boss Monsters. Each is vaguely based on a Sky Scourge with all of em being Fusions just so the deck gets to maybe do some Verte stuff if need be Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Enrise Fusion Monster LV 8 Fairy LIGHT 1300/2600 3 LIGHT Fairy monsters + 1 DARK Fiend monster Must be Fusion Summoned first. (Quick Effect): Banish 1 “Ocaso” monster from your Hand or GY; Banish 1 card on the field If this card leaves the field: You can Special Summon 1 “Ocaso” monster from your Extra Deck ignoring its summoning conditions, except “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Enrise” You can only use each effect of “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Enrise” once per turn We’ll begin by the first of the Big Guys TM, Enrise. Much like Norleras, Enrise requires ya to use a whole 4 materials 4 it, with this guy requiring 3 Fairies and Norleras 3 Fiends, and, in exchange for that, they get to be the biggest, meanest interactions ya can output with the deck. The original Enrise simply got to banish a card a la Chaos Sorc, and that was about it. Based on that as inspiration, I originally kinda settled on having the guy simply be just a Quick Eff 1 man Banish. Then again, that felt hella underwhelming. Invincil kinda outdone that iteration of this card, and given how Verte is one of the deck’s favorite ways of getting your Fusions out, it felt like this card was just a plain worse DPE at that point. So, I tried to give em a bit of a stronger interaction. My first thought was to make the Banish effect target more cards/be usable more times based on some random metric, like amount of Cielos en Ocaso you control, but I ended up choosing against it given how often I end up just giving my archetypes just a duo pop and a negate and calling it a day, it felt like a bit overdone at this point. So, my solution to that problem was this floating effect. Essentially, the idea is that since the condition on your floating eff is pretty flexible, ya can use it to make this be a hella sticky treat, and ya can also self-trigger it if/when you decide to do so by targeting itself with its Banish effect. By doing so, ya can float into a Norleras, which in turn wipes the board, making so this card kind of ends up being just an accessible Torrential Tribute of sorts. Even if ya don’t self-banish, the card can be surprisingly annoying to out, given how the board is getting wiped as soon as ya do so. This is also kind of a resource loop, so long as ya can keep outputting more Ocasos on GY to banish, making so your general gameplan becomes “Set up turn one board -> Interrupt your opponent to trade 1 for 1 and whittle down their advantage -> Boardwipe at a choke point -> Boardwipe again a few times until the gamestate gets simplified -> Engage some healthy Norleras Beatdown” Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Norleras Fusion Monster LV 8 Fiend DARK 2600/1300 3 Dark Fiend monsters + 1 Light Fairy monster Must be Fusion Summoned first. If this card is summoned; destroy all other cards on the field, then, this card gains 300 ATK for every card destroyed by this effect If this card leaves the field: You can add 1 “Ocaso” card from your GY to your Hand You can only use each effect of “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Norleras” once per turn And now, the big man himself, and the reason why Enrise is such an assh*le to out. Essentially, this card just reads “When Enrise self-targets, Torrential Tribute”. Thankfully, unlike the OG Norleras, this guy aint touching your hands, because that would be hella degenerate. Still, the archetype accomplishes the general idea of “Summon Norleras and Boardwipe as much as you possibly can”. ATK boost exists to speed up those simplified gamestates, and the floating eff is were the whole loop lies. By getting this card out of the field, ya can add back a copy of your Fusion Spell to your hand, and then use that to summon either Enrise or Cidhels if ya have the line that dumps Enrise into the GY, which then just gets you another Norleras Boardwipe. Very fun. Of course, you should have in mind that this loop is very fragile, a Ghost Reaper, a Skull Meister, a Ghost Belle, a Lancea, a DD Crow, a Called By, those are all valid cards to screw over this combo at one of the many steps to set it up/perform it. More importantly, especially on the lines where you don’t Cidhel, you would need a massive amount of Ocasos in GY to keep up with the loop. This kinda telegraphs your plays, as its kinda obvious you’re gonna do shenanigans with CIdhel, and thus makes ya easier to predict and stop Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Invincil Fusion Monster LV 6 Fairy LIGHT 1400/2400 2 “Ocaso” monsters Must be Fusion Summoned first. If this card is summoned: you can shuffle into your deck 1 of your banished “Ocaso” monsters; this card gains one of the following effects based on the monster’s type and attribute ● LIGHT Fairy-Type monster: When a Spell card is activated (Quick Effect): You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it ● DARK Fiend-Type monster: When a Trap card is activated (Quick Effect): You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it You can only use each effect of “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Invincil” once per turn Note: Thank's to Lumina's help, the PSCT on this card has been cleaned up and is no longer a fcking pre PSCT monstrosity First of all, I am so sorry for the monstrosity that is the PSCT on this card and the other small guy. I think the OG cards might be pre PSCT era?? In any case, the effs I had to base my text on were. Not optimal for my purposes. So, the text looks ugly as hell and feels kinda awkard. Im trying to figure out a solution, but, as ya might tell, im not that knowledgeable when it comes to PSCT other than just base surface level knowledge. Still, ya get the point. They have an on summon eff to emulate how the OG small guys got effs when tribute summoned using the correct materials, and at the same time, the way ya get to use this eff kinda helps further extend your combo by shuffling out the pieces you are using. The original Invincil got to f*cking be Imperial Order or Royal Decree based on which material ya used, which is not okay even in the slightest for a card that could be this easy to make, and thus, I made this guy just be a S/T negate based on which monster ya used. Fairies, the Spell Negate, is probably the better of the two, thanks to Fairies having some sick support, ya wanting to cram as many Fairies as possible for Enrise, and due to a lot of Going Second Power Cards being spells (With the exception being p much Evenly and kind of Imperm). As for the OG Invincil, ya probably wanna have it as a side deck option, given it is just f*cking IO. Every so often ya just tribute summon the guy and kinda win on the spot. Sweet. Other than that, of your three Sky Scourges, he’s probably the weakest and the one you’d have at 1 to save Extra Deck space. Also, did ya know the original small guys were earth attribute? Unbelievable Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Cidhel Fusion Monster LV 6 Fiend DARK 2400/1400 2 “Ocaso” monsters Must be Fusion Summoned first If this card is summoned: you can shuffle into your deck 1 of your banished “Ocaso” monsters; this card gains one of the following effects based on the monster’s type and attribute ● LIGHT Fairy-Type monster: Once per turn: Add 1 “Ocaso” card from your Deck to your Hand ● DARK Fiend-Type monster: Once per turn: Special Summon 1 “Ocaso” monster in your GY At Lumina's suggestion, changed this card's HOPT into a SOPT, since it isnt never going to really be usable multiple times per turn so long as Horizon is a HOPT. Sure, ya could Cidhel Bring back Cidhel, but by the time that's live, you are more concerned about your deck being hella dry on Fairies and the Norleras loop starting to be unsustainable And then, there’s this assh*le. Cidhel is just, the main reason ya get to loop as easily your Norleras. After all, so long as ya can get a Enrise that was properly summoned to your GY, which, you have lines to specifically do so, this card can just get ya through the lines that have it for the low price of 2 names on GY. Since ya can summon this by banishing your Norleras and an extra name (Or just another copy of this card in your GY), and then just shuffle the Norleras for this card’s eff, this loop can be extended for a long while if you remain uninterrupted. Still, kinda telegraphed, so, eh, there’s that. Oh, also, in some rare cases this card might be some extra extension by shuffling a Fairy instead of Norleras during your turn one Fusion between Night and Day – Ocaso at the Horizon Normal Spell Fusion Summon 1 "Ocaso" Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck by banishing monsters from your field or your GY as materials, also for the rest of the turn any damage your opponent takes is halved, and you cannot Special Summon monsters, except “Ocaso” ones. While this card is in your GY, except the turn it was sent there: You can banish this card in your GY; Shuffle into your Extra Deck 1 Link monster you control, then Send "Ocaso" monsters from your Deck to your GY equal to its Link Rating You can only activate each effect of “Fusion between Night and Day – Ocaso at the Horizon” once per turn Verte go brrr. Restrictions were kinda cut because in practice they did next to nothing. Added Loleo's GY eff suggestion to the card, currently testing how it plays to see if its balanced, but does look promising. Didnt add any restrictions to which Links could be used as cost for this card due to the fact that the effect cannot be used the turn this card goes to the GY being such a downside for non pure variants, and pure ones not having any particularly mean plays that would warrant such restrictions New update, removed the GY eff. At the time, the deck didnt had Samael availability due to Eden not yet being a thing. Now that it does, the deck is packed to the brim with repeatability, and no longer needs the extra fuel that this effect had granted it Ocaso's Mad Inventor - Procell Effect Monster LV 3 Fiend DARK 700/1300 If this card is Special Summoned by the effect of an “Ocaso” card: Add 1 “Ocaso” card from your Deck to your Hand. You can only use this effect of “Ocaso - Procell” once per turn First, Procell (F*ck you if ya recognize this name btw). This guy is kind of your general bridge and a bit of your chokepoint of sorts in a lot of your combos. One of your most common lines tend to be something along the lines of “Tribute x so ya can summon Procell” or “Dump x so ya can summon Procell” all to trigger his search eff and get something out of him. Oftentimes it is extension, BUT; if ya wanna do Cidhel bring back Enrise stuff, using him to get Ocaso in the Horizon is pretty much the best way to do so, as its kind of your non-Verte way to get to Fusion Summon. Generally painful to get this guy interrupted, as often ya invest a surprising lot to get em to trigger. Probably one of the targets to have in mind for interruptions Nobility in Ocaso - Adrammelech Effect Monster LV 3 Fiend DARK 1600/900 If this card is sent to your GY: You can discard 1 card; Send 1 “Ocaso” monster from your Deck to your GY. You can only use this effect of “Ocaso - Adrammelech” once per turn Big playmaker here. This guy is pretty much always gonna be your Cherubini target, as way to bridge your Fiend plays with your Fairy plays. The deck’s kind of best line would be something like, NS Tour Guide, Tour Guide SS a Procell, go into Cherubini with those, Dump Adrammelech, Dump a Gnosis, Gnosis bring back Procell for his trigger and then you’re off to do whatever your hand needs. Often it will be something like, add Sandalphon, SS Sandalphon, Tribute Procell to either SS Samael or Zion, whichever ya prefer, go into Verte with those two and dump a Horizon to SS an Enrise. With that in mind, getting this guy Ash’ed, having a DD Crow chained to banish the Procell, etc. is gonna be painful as all hell. Also kinda sweet to get this guy to trigger through other means, like, NS this guy, SS Sandalphon and then Tribute this guy, which would get ya a trigger of this guy, probably for like, Samael, and an SS from deck to get something like a Procell or something. Heavily depends on hands how ya wanna use it, being kind of similar to Malice Ascendants in that ya can do a bunch of weird lines by making this hit the GY by unusual means Ocaso Executioner - Samael Effect Monster LV 3 Fiend DARK 1700/0 Send to the GY one of your banished “Ocaso” monsters; Special Summon this card from your Hand or GY. You can only use this effect of “Ocaso - Samael” once per turn Not the most exciting card, but it makes later turn plays easier and turns on Cidhel summon back Enrise lines. Good guy, probably around a 1 of, its searchable, kinda bricks if hard drawn, and can recur itself on its own even at 1 copy Prodigy in Ocaso - Sandalphon Effect Monster LV 2 Fairy LIGHT 1400/1200 If you control an “Ocaso” monster: You can Special Summon this card from your Hand. You can Tribute 1 “Ocaso” monster you control; Special Summon 1 “Ocaso” monster from your Deck with a different Attribute and type You can only use each effect of “Ocaso - Sandalphon” once per turn Probably your strongest guy. Both extension and kind of a sweet starter, on top of being a readily accessible Procell trigger. I could see decks legitimately playing this for lines like “Tribute Self, SS Procell, Add Horizon, at the end of the combo banish both with Horizon, SS Invincil as a Spell Negate”. Not so sure how good that would be, but it certainly feels small enough of an engine to be worth playing. Maybe its worse than just having Dogma do Punishment stuff or Invoked do Mechaba stuff? Not sure. Probably is. Alternatively, decks that can play Cherubini can do the Adrammelech dump Gnosis ss back Procell lines to archieve the same if they can get a Procell into the GY (Like, with Tour Guide) but im fairly certain those decks like PK Fire just, have better stuff to do with their Cherubini/Tour Guide NS. Kinda hard to get a grip on how splashable the deck is tbh. Not exactly my forte, I already struggle enough trying to deck build with pure customs tbh. Ocaso's Automaton - Gnosis Effect Monster LV 2 Fairy LIGHT 0/2000 If this card is sent from your Deck to your GY: You can Special Summon 1 “Ocaso” monster in your GY, except “Ocaso – Gnosis”. You can only use this effect of “Ocaso - Gnosis” once per turn As ya can probably tell by this point, hella powerful card. Adrammelech send Gnosis is pretty much the start of all your best lines tbh. If only this deck could get some names in the GY early, ya would probably just play Diviner to dump this card. Oh well Crusader's Ocaso - Zion Effect Monster LV 2 Fairy LIGHT 1400/1200 If this card is banished: Add 1 “Ocaso” monster from your GY to your Hand. You can only use this effect of “Ocaso - Zion” once per turn Much like Samael, this guy is just a name to get near the end of your combo after you exhausted your HOPTs just to get some better recursion next turn. Probably adding the likes of Adrammelech and Sandalphon all the time. Kinda gets an edge over Samael by being a Fairy and thus being part of the harder to get Enrise material Gate towards the Ocaso - Eden Link Monster LR -1 Right Arrow Fairy LIGHT 1400 ATK 1 DARK Fiend or LIGHT Fairy monster, except Link Monsters If this card is destroyed by your opponent card effects: You can Special Summon 1 "Ocaso" monster from your GY And finally, this new addition to the the deck, a simple L1 that could have been a vanilla for all the deck cares about. The existence of this card opens ya to a lot of new combos by using it to fullfil the number of Fairies needed on GY, allowing you to archieve more with absolutely barren hands or to extend into a few plays for next turns on your average hands. Already detailed the specifics below, but essentially, just an a amazing card And that’s about it. Kinda really liked this one tbh. Big unga bunga deck that just repeatedly wipes the board and refuses to elaborate was right up my alley, im probably gonna be having a blast in dueling book with this one. As a note, I made all your Fiend guys LV3 for general synergy with all your good LV3 support cards, a la Tour Guide, after seeing how well things like BA mixed with those cards. A lot of your usual stuff, like Kagemucha or Rhino aint as good, but still, better than not having it. The fairies, on the other hand, are LV2 for general synergy with your good ol’ fairy goodstuff, like Eva, the Heralds, Diviner and what not. Seeing how strong just Solemn Strike + TT is this format, I wouldn’t really bat an eye at an Ocaso list playing f*cking Orange Light of all things tbh Hope ya like this one, has def been one of the archetypes I liked the most over all the things I’ve ever made, and I would sure hope the sentiment is shared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 I've spent a few games hand testing this and trying out some different cards, and this is more or less the best my peanut brain could imagine So, the final numbers i used for the customs were 1 Zion, 1 Samael, 2 Gnosis, and triple of all your good guys, aka Adrammelech, Sandalphon and Procell. Then i just threw around a few lv 3 staples and saw how it went. My extra is a mess, is just, 3 each of all the fusions + 1 Invincil, and a two each of your playmaker link 2s for good measure, though someone smarter than me could probably figure better things to run than just extra Cherubinis lol Could you believe me if i told you that NS Ash Blossom + Kamucha Knight/Either of the Psychics is full combo? Its absolutely f*cking hilarious, but a hand like that gets ya to an Enrise on board with a spare card in hand. Of course, other set ups, like p much just anything with Tour Guide, just use way less cards in hand to do the same thing. I think my best was something like Enrise + 3 hand traps. And if all else fails, Invincil + Handtraps is reachable from p much any hand short of like, Gnosis/Zion + 1 LV3 support card + idk, a few Crossouts/Targets or something. Ya can brick, but more often than not, even bad hands get you to at least a negate not counting hand traps. Deck feels kinda good, i'll see how well it plays in a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 Wait, no, Kagemucha is plain up worse than the Psychic LV 3s, nevermind. Just, replace it with 3 of either of the guys, there are some edge cases were ya can get a 3 on field but not a NS of one and it might matter in your worse hands the chain blocking isnt that useful since it only triggers on tour guide, and i think that misses timing, given that both are optional when effects?? idk, still, its better on your worse hands, and those are the ones that need the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 Surprisingly, i think one of the best ways to give support to this deck would be just a plain Link 1, without any kind of useful effect necessarily, that has Light Fairy as its typing, and maybe another one for Dark Fiend. Just making that would immediatly greatly improve the deck, which is kinda hilarious. A lot of you hands just barely manage to get Enrise's 4 mats turn one, so this as a tool would let ya end up with a leftover monster, making so it would be posible to have some sort of set up in GY for future turns. On your actually good hands, you often end up with a Procell and a Sandalphon in field, then, ya just tribute the Procell for Sandalphon eff to SS a Zion, use those two for a Verte and barely get to the 3 Fairies on GY you need for Enrise. With this link, you could choose to use either Sandalphon or Zion as mat for the Link 1, getting you an extra Fairy in GY and making so you could use Zion's eff to add back to hand the Sandalphon, giving you a better play next turn, OR, knowing that you have access to an extra Fairy anyways, tributing the Sandalphon for its own effect, going into a Samael, and then using either of your monsters to summon the Link 1 to fulfill the last Fairy needed, giving you access to Samael for the rest of the duel and greatly improving your grind game Hell, it could even give ya some better lines every so often for scuffed set ups. Imagine your only combo piece in hand is a Adrammelech. Ya could NS it, use it to summon the Link 1, use its effect to dump a Gnosis, Gnosis bring back the Adrammelech, and now ya have 2 mats and a Fairy on grave to summon a spell-negating Invincil through Verte. And that's just one example of how it could improve some of your more scuffed lines I kinda wanna give em those Link 1s now tbh, might add them latter. They are needed for the typing, so any effects on them would probably exist only so that they are valid Verte materials, they could honestly be vanillas for all i care tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripledawn Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 Welcome back @drowsyCoffee! And happy holidays. I'll definitely consider dropping by the DB customs scene, as I legit wouldn't mind picking the brain of a fellow control aficionado. On to the cards... I sorta glossed of the main deck monsters seeing as my eyes glaze over when my opponent is doing a combo anyway XD. The biggest thing is I think the fusion spell is way, way too restrictive. Unless your archetype can ends the game turn 2 there's no reason to place a half damage debuff on it. And unless using it is a generic plus, there's no reason to restrict your future summons if it's not pulling materials from your deck. I'd probably defer the restrictions from the fusion spell to other cards if you need restrictions like that, simply because players will skip the spell and simply use the engine to lead into different boards. The mechanics behind fusions are really cool. I'd even push it a bit further by removing the summoning restriction from the bigger in a bit of an "this a floating waking the dragon package" intentionally, and switch the trigger on norlares' field wipe effect to "fusioned summoned or summoned by ocaso effect" or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 Honestly? Fair f*cking enough, in retrospective, the fusion has no business being that restrictive, specially over damage, given the boards the deck has been outputting in testing. It aint really OTKing, so it feels now that you mention it like a bit of an unnecessary restriction. The second one i dont mind so much, as any deck splashing this in could just abuse the fact that it is a "for the rest of the turn" restriction to cheat it, and the deck itself doesnt have enough fuel to keep going on after using it. To be honest, in hand testing, the fact that it was a HOPT ended up being more of a restriction than anything else to me lol Will probably introduce those changes tomorrow, alongside the L-1 Fairy Light monster, as i am right now about to start a DnD sesion. Still, good f*cking point, that was kinda spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Added the L1 and just threw away some of the restrictions in the Fusion card that were kinda redundant with Verte in non-pure variants and absolutely unnecessary on pure ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Fuck, the Adrammelech + 1 of your LV3 extender guys starting hand is kinda rough. Best i've managed to think so far is something like, NS Adra, SS your extender from hand, make Eden with Adra to trigger the Adra, send a Samael from deck to GY, make Verte with your extender and your Eden on field, and use it to summon a spell negating Invincil by banishing the Adra and the Eden in GY, leaving ya with a Samael for extension on your next turn (Since Verte already locked ya off of summons). Main problem so far is that Cherubini lines get hella awkard, given that ya get the chance to trigger them after your NSed Adra got to the GY, and ya kinda want it to happen the other way around, to send a Procell with Cherubini, then a Gnosis with Adra, Gnosis bring back the Procell and then go full combo from there. Imma need to figure out a better way to play those hands, its kinda fucky how low value your end boards are with how relatively likely you're of drawing em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loleo Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 OK OMG I have the perfect way to tie this deck together! So only one change because this is all amazing and it would offer more variety Add the effect on the fusion spell If it is in the GY except the turn it was sent there target a link monster in either GY: return it and the targeted link to their respective decks then if that link monster was an ocaso, dump ocaso cards from deck up to the link rating of the returned link. On a side note it would be hilarious if there was a level 5,7,8, (particularly level 5) synchro with a decent effect including treating a light fairy/dark fiend (maybe a 7 that treats Dark fiend and 5 and 8 that treats light fairies) monster you control as a tuner for its summon. The level 5 would treat itself as a link 2 in grave and the other 2 treat themselves as link 3 in grave. I just think it would be hilarious and work REALLY well. Lastly to help balance resources a little can you consider allowing Zion upon being sent to GY (Maybe specifically from deck) the option to return exactly 2 banished ocaso monsters to deck to have one more minor benefit (draw one, special summon another ocaso from GY or banished, give ocaso monsters [maybe specifically ones summoned from extra deck] protection from effects that don't destroy specifically)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 While i like the suggestion to make Zion's eff a tad more flexible, given that its one of the cards that feel a tad less useful, i dont really think it would be able to make that big of a difference, sadly. Kinda have 2 reasons for it. First, normally, when you summon one of your 2 mat fusions, ya Shuffle one of the banished materials back to give the fusion its effect. Due to that, that Zion effect wouldnt really be that applicable on those set ups. Sure, on your 4 mat fusion set ups, ya have available banished monsters to shuffle back, but the deck's problem so far is not so much that the 4 mat set ups aent strong enough but rather that there are a lot of hands that simply cannot get there. There are other minor issues with the suggestion related to that original problem, like Zion not really ever hitting the GY while you have banished monsters, as ya oftentimes need to use em as one of your mats, or the hands that need the help being mainly hands that lack good control over their dumps, and thus, that would have problems figuring out a way to send this to the deck while they already have problems spending their Cherubini and Adra dumps properly due to how they're forced to sequence their plays. Feels like it doesnt really answer anything in particular, and i preffer to keep my card texts on the leaner sides The idea for a second effect for the Fusion card, however, feels like a far more interesting idea. The deck oftentimes ends with useless L-2s on field, and even when they dont have them, ya can just use Eden as an easy way to get a Link on field to make use of that effect. There are some minor anti-synergies with having the card do stuff in the GY, given that ya probably would want to have it banish itself or something as cost, due to how at least as of now ya want to retrieve back this card out of the Norleras float, but if im being honest, its nothing that couldnt be solved by simply changing your sequencing. You could instead use Norleras to retrieve back 1 other card, like a Sandalphon you managed to not banish/return to GY through Samael, and then get access to your Fusion spell through something like "SS Eden -> Shuffle Eden -> Dump Adrammelech (If you can afford the discard, if not, ya can skip em, its just a nice way to get extra names into the GY) -> Dump Gnosis -> Gnosis SS back Procell -> Procell search Horizon (This also solve one minor problem that was bugging me a lot with the deck, and that was that you ended up with a lot of surplus of Dark Fiends in GY, but it didnt feel particularly relevant to leave any specific one in given that ya didnt have much use for em, with Fairies being the bottleneck. This at least makes ya think about which one you'd preffer to have on GY, which already is a big plus)" plus whatever other extension ya can muster, like Sandalphon tributing Procell to get more Fairies on board. It also would give a way to make use of the Samael being SSed every turn after the first one, as a nice way to get materials for Eden/Cherubini to be used as tributes for that GY effect. I think im going to tentatively add that effect in, and see how it plays on some duels before fully committing to keeping it in or not. Either well, that was quite a good suggestion, it does feel like it helps the deck's turn 3 plays which have been feeling a tad awkard so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Slightly misread (Lol yugioh players cant read funny) your suggestion for the Fusion eff in GY, but still managed to come up with something nice lookin' out of that general idea, so i think imma leave it as is. Hella good suggestion mate, i liked that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted December 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 After asking for a bit regarding some Verte rulingss, i managed to confirm that one of the more highroll-ey lines ya have available is actually legal, opening up some interesting plays. The idea is that, normally, throught your combo turn 1, your goal is mainly setting up 3 Fairies on GY plus a Verte to be able to summon Enrise. However, Verte isnt actually mandatory to access to go through the entire line, its just a nice card to SS in order to not have to rely in hard drawing it/hard drawing Sandalphon to free up the Procell search. After asking for a bit, apparently Verte can copy the effect of a card with a HOPT that had already been used this turn. Between it not being mandatory for your line, and it bypassing the HOPT in horizon, some lines open up for scenarios were you specifically manage to hard draw both Horizon and any number of cards that get you to full combo (As well as scenarios were you draw mediocre things + a Horizon, by using Cidhel for extension and then later on Verte-ing to bypass the spent HOPT and summon either Enrise or Invincil) The general idea of these highroll hands is to just perform your regular combo (As for example, Tour Guide NS -> SS Procell from Deck -> Use both to make a Cherubini -> Cherubini dump Adrammelech -> Adra dump Gnosis -> Gnosis Summon back Procell -> Procell triggers and adds Sandalphon -> Sandalphon SS itself -> Either SS Eden or use Sandalphon to get a third Fairy -> Make Verte -> Use Verte to Summon an Enrise (Costs 3 fairies and 1 fiend on GY)) up to the point were ya SS Sandalphon. There, ya summon a Samael from Deck by using Sandalphon Tributing itself, and then make a Eden with it. Then, with the Procell and the Eden, ya make a Verte. At that point, ya have 3 Fairies on GY, and 4 Fiends. First, ya use your Horizon in hand to make enrise, banishing the Adrammelech and your Fairies, so next turn ya can use Samael to return it to the GY and then dump a card. Ya use Samael effect to send a card to your GY, and then you Verte effect, targetting a Horizon on deck to SS an Invincil. I'd recommend using Tour Guide as one of the mats, and using a Gnosis sent back by Samael as the other one, trying to keep the Procell in the GY for Adra plays next turn. Then, for the Invincil shuffle, id shuffle the Eden, just so ya dont have to play extra copies, or if you are using extras, the Gnosis to keep a high count on deck What does this archieve? On top of your regular board wipe-y shenanigans with an Enrise protected with Cherubini (Which is kinda hilarious) ya have a Spell Negate in Invincil to interrupt your opponent, and what matters more, you have a metric ton of follow up. Next turn, ya can use Samael eff to SS himself back and send to the GY the Adra banished -> The Adra sends a Gnosis -> The Gnosis SS back your Procell -> Procell adds from deck a Sandalphon ->Sandalphon can SS itself and tribute Procell for a Zion. Even before ya summon an Eden, or use Horizons GY eff, by setting up a bit your GY, ya already made up enough material to get a new Enrise, even if it has to be through Verte, and that's without counting what you drew for turn nor your potential add out of the Norleras float The point is, get Samael in rotation, he's amazing. Always try to keep Procell in GY for easy value out of a Gnosis. Adrammelech is the optimal Fiend banish if available. Always try to SS Eden to open up Samael lines, its better than going for a Zion. And, the new important tip, if ya hard draw Horizon, try to figure out lines that can get value out of it before ya Verte, and remember that ya can use Cidhel for extension, specially by searching a Sandalphon/SSing back a Procell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 Here's an example of the deck's average full combo line, kinda thought i should show it, given that i happened to draw it on the first hand i handtested today. Basically either Procell + LV3, or a Tour Guide are good enough to carry ya all the way to Enrise with a Cherubini for protection and a Samael for repeatability. More often that not about every card ya draw other than what you make your combo with is a handtrap https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=868939-35284599 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=868939-35284965 Here's the line where ya use Verte to cheat out an extra activation of Horizon after hard drawing a copy. Banished the Tour Guide instead of the extra hard drawn Adrammelech just to demonstrate that ya dont particularly need to hard draw an extra name in order to be able to conserve resoursces GY for next turn shenanigans. As always, remember that a Samael in GY while having an Adra banished is full combo, as ya can do Samael send Banished Adra to GY -> Adra dump Gnosis -> Gnosis SS back the Procell in GY used for the line -> Procell add Sandalphon and then whatever the hell ya like, like Sandalphon SS Self -> Trigger Sandalphon tributing Procell to SS a Zion, since we already have Samael in Rotation -> SS an Eden using Either -> Go into Verte -> Either fusion once with Verte, or twice if ya already went through the full Norleras loop and added back a Horizon to hand, by first fusion summoning with the Horizon and then with the Verte eff Kinda funny how Samael turn one is next to useless, given that you dont really have that much to do with the material (Though, if you're short on names in GY in Horizon + Verte lines, ya can first use the Horizon, then SS back the Samael ya use him as your Eden material to recycle whichever name ya need) it provides, but then turn 2 the fcker just T poses over your opponent as it enables ya to do some nasty full combos. I think imma remove the GY eff of Horizon now that Samael is so available due to Eden's existence, the deck doesnt need help with repeatability anymore tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 Minor detail i missed: It might be a better idea to have Invincil and not Enrise as the card (Other than Verte) that Cherubini is pointing to and protecting from effect destruction, so that Invincil doesnt get removed from field if you were to use Enrise to float into Norleras for the boardwipe, allowing you to save the Spell Negate for later. Wether you do so or not, though, its up to you, as it is a slightly greedy move in that it allows cards such as Pankratops to pop the Enrise and thus force the boardwipe. Kinda depends on circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2022 Been messing with a few Horizon + Ocaso lines. Here's Adrammelech's one, given that he's pretty much the best of the gang. Main difference in other lines is that you dont have the Zion send, resulting in 1 less fairy in GY, requiring some extra Eden shenanigans to compensate. Yet another reason why Adra is the deck's best 3 of, right next to Sandalphon. Also, have in mind that these hands arent only rare, they are also quite bad, its kind of an attept to wring out as much value out of a bad situation. Realistically, NS an Ocaso, make Eden, banish both for a spell negating Invincil is what id expect https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=868939-35412534 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 Addition of Eden to the archetype and reshaping of the combo lines, circa 2022 colorized: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Alrighto, I'll try to help in Cidhel and Invicil's wording. Damn, that Invicil is 15 years old and pre PSCT lol, it definitely is outdated. At any rate, yeah, that "first extends" wording is pretty crazy, no wonder you felt uncomfortable about it xD Quote Cidhel Must be Fusion Summoned. If this card is Summoned: You can target if of your banished "Ocaso" monsters; shuffle it into the Deck, and if you do, this card gains 1 of the following effects based on the Type and Attribute of that shuffled monster. ● LIGHT Fairy: Add 1 “Ocaso” card from your Deck to your hand. ● DARK Fiend: Special Summon 1 “Ocaso” monster in your GY. You can only use each effect of “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Cidhel” once per turn. A couple of thoughts here. Am I missing something? Talking again about that "extends you play based on material" part. In this first version I'm giving, I'm completely scrapping it because it doesn't make sense, it looks like some sort of incomplete effect, as in, BESIDES the shuffle n' get effect, you also wanted it to have an additional effect that is gained depending on the material used. That would require a separate line of text should you want it, and pretty similar to the shuffle n' get one. Otherwise, I don't see for what that piece of wording is there Second though would be if it truly needs the HOPT. Honest question, I'm not sure. I don't know how easily you could summon a copy of this guy, shuffle a second card into the Deck to gain the exact same effect. Quote Invicil Must be Fusion Summoned. If this card is Summoned: You can target if of your banished "Ocaso" monsters; shuffle it into the Deck, and if you do, this card gains 1 of the following effects based on the Type and Attribute of that shuffled monster. ● LIGHT Fairy: When a Spell Card is activated (Quick Effect): You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it. ● DARK Fiend: When a Trap Card is activated (Quick Effect): You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it. You can only use each effect of “Scourge of the Cielos en Ocaso – Invincil” once per turn. Firstly, there is no official card in existence that uses an structure that goes like, When X is activated, you can negate <---- particularly, I'm talking about the comma here. In order to make this work, you gotta make sure what kind of effect this is, because the comma is misleading. Sky Scourge Invicil's effect is a continuous one that negates effects (and not activations). You could activate a stupid Lightning Storm in its face and it will just go to the GY resolved without effect xD. In contrast, any card that remains on the field after use will stay there, negated but not destroyed. Ocaso's version is different, it seems to want to trigger in response of an activation, negate it, and destroy it. So I'm going for the basic formula. I'd like to point out something: On 1/9/2022 at 12:30 AM, drowsyCoffee said: The problem i had was that at least in that effecti kinda scrapped my card text from, the colon for the line was just after specifying the type/attribute of the monster, then specifying the effect gained, which made wording the rest of the effect hella awkard as the space before the colon, the trigger condition, was already filled. In the case of bullets, you can find effects that, just the same as if it wasn't bulleted, can be activated, has a cost and a resolution, (so, the classic Timing: Cost; Action structure) and appear immediately after the colon that separates the bullet's... condition/requirement or whatever you wanna call it (in this case, the type/attribute of monster shuffled) and the effect. Take Armed Dragon Thunder LV 10's third bullet effect as reference if you'd like. In other words, you always use colon immediately after the bullet's "thing", and that doesn't prevent you from using more colon just after that. In addition, the effect that is leading to the bulleted effect, AFAIK, NEVER end with a colon, they end with a period. Invicil's effect DOES end in colon, but that's pre-PSCT and incorrect, imo. Now, here's something else: I gave a good long look to see if I found effects of monsters that, without any kind of cost, negated and destroyed as a Quick Effect (which btw, is missing in the original if you want to go this route). Over 100 results of cards that can negate Spells or Traps, and they all are "When a Spell Card is activated: Insert some cost here; negate the activation, and if you do, destroy it". The one and only example of something that does not pay is Shooting Quasar Dragon. Not too recent, but at least post-PSCT. I just can't seem to come up with a way right now that makes this a continuous effect that can negate activations and destroy. Unless I'm terribly wrong, there is no official card that has this combination, heck, even a Field Spell that can negate Spells, Ancient City-Rainbow Ruins, and that has that effect as a bulledted one, IS a quick-like effect, and the same goes for the Continuous Trap - Ancient Warriors Saga - Chivalrous Path. Phew, I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Alrighto, I'll try to help in Cidhel and Invicil's wording. Damn, that Invicil is 15 years old and pre PSCT lol, it definitely is outdated. At any rate, yeah, that "first extends" wording is pretty crazy, no wonder you felt uncomfortable about it xD I fucking knew that had to be some pre PSCT bs, fucking hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: A couple of thoughts here. Am I missing something? Talking again about that "extends you play based on material" part. In this first version I'm giving, I'm completely scrapping it because it doesn't make sense, it looks like some sort of incomplete effect, as in, BESIDES the shuffle n' get effect, you also wanted it to have an additional effect that is gained depending on the material used. That would require a separate line of text should you want it, and pretty similar to the shuffle n' get one. Otherwise, I don't see for what that piece of wording is there Oops, that's just, completely my bad. I made the Ocasos in a word file originally, while the internet was out, so there must be some fucky copy pasting shenanigans going on that somehow managed to survive unnoticed 'til now. Kind of an oversight on my part, not the first time it has happened tbh. Given what it says, i think what might have happened is that i forgot to delete my earliest notes on the archetype? It sounds like straight out of an early draft, with shit like "Okay this name's the extender, this the stratos" and so on. MB 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Second though would be if it truly needs the HOPT. Honest question, I'm not sure. I don't know how easily you could summon a copy of this guy, shuffle a second card into the Deck to gain the exact same effect. No need tbh, for ya to use it multiple times ya would need to hard draw the Horizon and then cheat the Horizon HOPT through Verte during that same turn, it aint archieving that much, a SOPT would do the same. I tend to streamline HOPTs because i just cannot be bothered to write that same sentence over and over again, so i dont really question myself wether they need em or not a lot of the time. The slight cut on text is appreciated, though, Cidhel and Invincil were lookin' a bit too cramped on DB for my own personal tastes, many thanks 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Firstly, there is no official card in existence that uses an structure that goes like, When X is activated, you can negate <---- particularly, I'm talking about the comma here. In order to make this work, you gotta make sure what kind of effect this is, because the comma is misleading. Sky Scourge Invicil's effect is a continuous one that negates effects (and not activations). You could activate a stupid Lightning Storm in its face and it will just go to the GY resolved without effect xD. In contrast, any card that remains on the field after use will stay there, negated but not destroyed. Ocaso's version is different, it seems to want to trigger in response of an activation, negate it, and destroy it. So I'm going for the basic formula. I'd like to point out something: 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: In the case of bullets, you can find effects that, just the same as if it wasn't bulleted, can be activated, has a cost and a resolution, (so, the classic Timing: Cost; Action structure) and appear immediately after the colon that separates the bullet's... condition/requirement or whatever you wanna call it (in this case, the type/attribute of monster shuffled) and the effect. Take Armed Dragon Thunder LV 10's third bullet effect as reference if you'd like. In other words, you always use colon immediately after the bullet's "thing", and that doesn't prevent you from using more colon just after that. In addition, the effect that is leading to the bulleted effect, AFAIK, NEVER end with a colon, they end with a period. Invicil's effect DOES end in colon, but that's pre-PSCT and incorrect, imo. Thank the lord, i kinda assumed it would work like that, but to be honest given how finnicky yugioh PSCT is until i had some more modern card to compare to i just wasnt certain enough to commit to it. This helps a whole fucking lot 1 hour ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Phew, I hope this helps. Sure has, specially my own doubts on how colons worked within bulleted effects was something i just had absolutely no clue how to solve, nor did i remembered many cards with a similar situation, it has helped a ton with this, many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 big things. 1, contrary to what i thought, after someone more well versed in the custom scene told me (and i verified it), Adrammelech does NOT trigger out of a Samael sending it to GY, even if Samael is written like that, since the interaction of being sent back to the GY is considered "Returning" not "Sending" and doesnt fulfill its trigger condition. Still, just random garbage in hand plus Samael returning self is enough for a Verte Anaconda, so the deck can still work even then Second, after playtesting it, i've decided that Enrise no longer will be able to activate by banishing a card on GY. Requiring a banish from hand limits your plays more and prevents some massive turn 3 pop offs, and also helps tone down the recursive abilities of the deck. The deck really didnt need to be able to pay with virtual advantage for that one As a minor note, apparently Sandalphon + Gnosis/Zion (Either or) IS full combo, as ya can NS Gnosis/Zion -> SS the Sandalphon -> Sandalphon tribute any for any DARK Fiend (Probably Adra)-> Use any of them to make Eden -> Other Guy + Eden make Verte -> You have exactly 3 Fairies and 1 Fiend, so Verte copy Horizon and banish all for Enrise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booloomer Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I really like these cards from what I've read so far! They seem to be rather adept at bringing each other out, as well as able to perform some brutal hits to opponents through monster effects if specific conditions are met. I didn't see the older versions, but they're really balanced and well thought-out cards! Also, what did you use to playtest the cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowsyCoffee Posted January 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 I used Dueling Book, first to make the deck, then in Solo mode to hand test the deck for a few times, like, 20~30 hands too, mainly focusing on the ones that werent full combo, and then finally by playing some matches on the custom ladder agaisnt other people. So far the deck looks neat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booloomer Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Oh, so cool! I didn't know there was a website where you could make custom cards and use them, that's so neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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