yugioh A guide to making custom archetypes

[WhiteThunder777]

Ever wonder WHY generic cards are a problem for yugioh? 

We have seen that generic cards are cards that can be put into any deck.  For example, the earliest generic card was Pot of Greed which went for plus 1 with no cost.  This is problematic because everyone can play it, and whoever drew pot of greed was more likely to win the game than someone who did not.  This was fixed as Pot of Greed had to be errata so that there was a cost (Pot of Desires requires banishing a fourth of a 40 card deck).

And also, generic cards are super easy to summon.  Depending on their effect and summoning conditions, they can be troublesome or downright okay.  The Link 4 Bow of the Goddess was like 4 negates on 1 monster causing the opponent to struggle going 2nd as it required 2+ effect monsters as materials, thus it had to be hit on the banlist.  Cards like these are bad design as they do NOT give the opponent a chance to play yugioh as a whole.  A Link 2 monster with 2+ monster and no effect is okay.

So how do we fix all of this problem caused with generic cards?

• The simple fix is that if you have a generic card that is easy to summon, it should NOT have a very strong effect.  An example would be link 3 with 2600 ATK without effect.  Not like a negate on an Extra Deck monster with 3+ monsters.

OR another way to fix this is by giving the cards archetypal materials as we have discussed before. Why - because if the card was in its own archetype, it would have effects RELATED to that archetype and what it wants to do.  We will let X be the archetype in question. As an example consider these 2 points:

1. If a Fusion monster of archetype X required 2 "X" Fusion monsters to Fusion summon it, it should not have a weak effect like MST.  You are committing a lot of resources when you do this, so the reward for doing so better be good.
2. If a Fusion monster just said 2 DARK monsters, any dedicated DARK deck can make this, thus filling up your Extra Deck.  This is what you do NOT want because your Extra Deck should be filled with things that extend your archetype and its identity.

Generic cards also fill up the main deck to the point where they become 'staples'.  Like how the most common hand traps are Ash Blossom, Effect Veiler, Infinite Impermeance, Ghost Ogre.  If you wanted a hand trap for your custom card archetype, to fix this, make sure your hand trap is weaker than Ash Blossom in terms of power.  Like a battle hand trap for example in your archetype would fix this problem.  No one wants their hand traps when they make their custom archetype unless they want to take up more space.

But at the same time, this too can be a blessing.   Cards like MST, Twin Twisters, Cosmic Cyclone have become staples because all of these cards do NOT break yugioh as a whole, thus allowing you to use these cards as inspiration to add back row removal to your custom archetype.  Exiled Forces falls into the same category, but for monster removal.  Neither of these break the yugioh game as a whole.

To fix generic cards, consider giving them weak effects (not like omni-negates and stuff like that).  Something like battle damage or boosted stats.  But for an archetypal card, you can give stuff that enhances the identity of the archetype.  

[WhiteThunder777]

Powercreep refers to the idea that newer cards in an archetype overshadow older cards.  This causes the archetype to be less fun to play with as newer cards overshadow the older ones.  For example, HEROes have been power crept in yugioh because of the game speed in yugioh, which divided HEROes into sub-archetypes like Masked HEROes, Vision HEROes, with their own play styles.  Hence this is why it's not recommended to add new HERO cards.

Bloating is the idea of cramming too many mechanics into a single archetype.  This causes difficulties when playtesting the archetype, due to it not being streamlined (focused on 1 specific mechanic).    To avoid bloating, think of a laser that is focused on 1 thing.  If every card is strictly focused on 1 specific thing and every card aids the archetype's mechanic, it's not bloating.  

 

[WhiteThunder777]

Keep in mind the following when designing custom archetypes:

1. Combo decks are decks that work together to make an explosive end board.  Monsters used for this strategy are rarely used for battling.
2. Control decks are decks that out resource the opponent by having more resources than the opponent.  Their pieces have low stats but have highly disruptive effects.  
3. Midrange is in between combo and control. 

And also look at this.

• Linear archetypes are archetypes with a specific starting point and ending point.  Their paths are predictable and you must follow that.  For example, the Invoked engine is about normal summoning Aliester the Invoker, adding Invocation and using it to invoke Mechaba. 
• Non-linear archetypes are ones that do not have a set path in mind.  These archetypes have adaptability in mind.  For example, Speedroid with the new support Clackernel allows it to make multiple end boards.

 

 

[WhiteThunder777]

A lot of people say that Link 1 monsters are problematic because they are ban worthy.  But did you know that not all Link 1s are problematic for custom card design? 

For example, Salamangreant Balelynx is a Link 1 that adds a Field Spell for consistency.  Linkuriboh requires 1 level 1 monster which enabled Snake-eye to abuse it. 

But Marincess Blue Slug is a link 1 that does NOT add a field spell, instead she recycles.

So what went wrong? Linkuriboh was too generic. 

But if you look at the link material for Marincess Blue Slug its materials is 1 Level 4 or lower Marincess monster.  Its effect is to add a MArincess monster from GY to hand.  Its restriction locks you into WATER monsters.

So what does this tell us in terms of making link 1s?

Let X be the name of the archetype.  

So it would be as follows 

1 Level 4 or lower "X" monster with its effect to add 1 "X" monster from the GY to hand with a HOPT. With its restriction being you cannot Special Summon monsters, except "X" monsters, the turn you Summon this card.  

 

 

Edited September 14 by WhiteThunder777

[WhiteThunder777]

Have you ever wondered why you should put your own spin on ideas? 

Take for example, let's say that you want to make a banish mill deck that decks out the opponent.  If you were to go that path, you'd be no better than making Runick 2.0.  It's good to take inspiration from existing archetypes and ideas, but putting a spin on it is what makes it set it apart from the original.  

Another way to think about this is look for ideas that have long been abandoned.  Why is this - because it shows intuition.  For example, making Vehicroid good would require a MASSIVE Overhaul because the deck lacks focus on what they want to do.

If you're afraid of power creep and bloating, look at this.  Bloating can cause power creep because you're adding mechanics to an archetype.  To prevent this, keep it streamlined.  The more streamlined an archetype is, the more you can add cards without bloating, thus preventing power creep.  What does it mean to keep it streamlined - keep it focused on the mechanic.

even if your archetype is criticized for being weak against the TCG Meta, it does NOT matter.  Meta stands for most efficient tactics available. 

And here's another thing, going 1st and 2nd is a common trick.  Going 2nd cards include cards that do direct attacks, multiple attackers, and eliminate back row (or even freezes them).  Going 1st cards should pressure the opponent from going 2nd, but not to the point where it's a total lockdown.  

[Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ]

I thought I was the only one who was confused about playing "Roid". 

[WhiteThunder777]

2 hours ago, Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ said:

I thought I was the only one who was confused about playing "Roid". 

Yeah the thing is, the roid archetype used by Syrus Treadle is the one I am referring to.  They're bad in design. 

[Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ]

8 hours ago, WhiteThunder777 said:

They're bad in design.

What do you mean by design here is artwork or playing style?

Because honestly, some of their artwork ("roid") is pretty cool, but the effects are very...ugh hmm. Like this card. 

Once per turn, during the End Phase: You can target 1 "roid" monster in your Main Monster Zone (other than this card); return that monster you control to the hand, and if you do, "move this card you control to that monster's Monster Zone." Just move it..... and nothing, damn.

[WhiteThunder777]

19 hours ago, Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ said:

What do you mean by design here is artwork or playing style?

Because honestly, some of their artwork ("roid") is pretty cool, but the effects are very...ugh hmm. Like this card. 

Once per turn, during the End Phase: You can target 1 "roid" monster in your Main Monster Zone (other than this card); return that monster you control to the hand, and if you do, "move this card you control to that monster's Monster Zone." Just move it..... and nothing, damn.

This is talking about the mechanics (playing style) of the roid archetype.  Not the artwork.

Edited September 20 by WhiteThunder777

[Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ]

4 hours ago, WhiteThunder777 said:

about the mechanics

Yeah

[WhiteThunder777]

A lot of people say link 1s are a problem when designing yugioh custom card archetypes.

Misconception, the Marincess link 1 does not search, it recycles.  

The problem arises in the following:

• the materials required for the link 1
• the effect of the link 1 monster

now look at this, a Link 1 searcher essentially replaces the main searcher, thus making you gain advantage.  But by recycling you avoid this problem.

[WhiteThunder777]

When looking at Xyz strategies, ask yourself what style do you want to go?

• Rank up and become more powerful? Try to put a spin on that.
• Rank down and become more powerful? Intriguing as no existing TCG archetypes have attempted this.
• Xyz spam? try to be more unique.

But what if an "X" Xyz monster of rank 4 allows it to be summoned with 1 Level 4 "X" monster equipped with 1 "X Equip spell and its effects are dependent on what material was detached to it.  That is putting a spin on things. 

[Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ]

11 hours ago, WhiteThunder777 said:

But what if an "X" Xyz monster of rank 4 allows it to be summoned with 1 Level 4 "X" monster equipped with 1 "X Equip spell and its effects are dependent on what material was detached to it.  That is putting a spin on things.

Its unique

[WhiteThunder777]

On 9/24/2024 at 11:20 PM, Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ said:

Its unique

I see.  How is it unique?

[Yᵤₘₐ ₖₐᵢbₐ]

13 hours ago, WhiteThunder777 said:

I see.  How is it unique?

Its Summoning requirement and the effect of course. I've made it of course, you can see it on my custom "roid" support.

[WhiteThunder777]

When thinking about the goal of your archetype, avoid these vague ideas.

1. Playing on your opponent's turn. How? Almost every archetype plays on your opponent's turn to some degree.
2. Spamming - All archetype tend to spam to some degree.

 

[WhiteThunder777]

The design space of a Yu-Gi-Oh! archetype refers to the range of viable and thematically consistent card designs that can be added to the archetype without:

1. Power Creep: Making newer cards stronger than the older ones to the point where the old ones are useless.  Look at the HERO archetype for example, which was split into several sub archetypes.
2. Inconsistent Mechanics: Clashing within the archetype itself; all cards (old and new) should work together in perfect harmony.  
3. Unintended Synergies: If you think about it, you don't want to cause a reaction that breaks the game as a whole.  For Fiend, you don't want them to interact with Fiendsmith.  For Dragon, you don't want to interact with Dragon Link.
4. Unplayable cards: Design space should accommodate cards that are playable but not necessarily top-tier.
5. Altering the core identity of the archetype.

Edited October 9 by WhiteThunder777

[WhiteThunder777]

To put design space into perspective, let's look at Blue-eyes as an example - it's a level 8 Normal monster with 3000 ATK and 2500 DEF.  So the archetype was centred around a Normal monster that was hard to get on the field.  

[WhiteThunder777]

Here's an idea, ever wonder how to tell if an archetype is linear or not - look no further than K' Nex pieces.  With K' Nex you can build anything with your imagination.  Here's how to do it.

• A linear deck is like a box of K' Nex pieces you must build in a SPECIFIC way.  For example, BEWD and Dark Magician had to be built a specific way for them to be viable.  there's a specific starting point and an ending point.
• A non-linear deck has multiple ways to build - you can build whatever you want with your mind.  

[Mzse1216]

Do you think you could post some examples of successful/well-designed custom archetypes?

[WhiteThunder777]

On 10/14/2024 at 9:59 PM, Mzse1216 said:

Do you think you could post some examples of successful/well-designed custom archetypes?

Here's an example of what a successful custom archetype looks like.  This one uses Cyberse monsters with Equip Spells. VR-Gal is one I did myself, the artwork being done with a collab from another user on Discord.  They are Cyberse monsters that use Equip Spells that when sent to the GY or banishment, do something.  Think of Infernoble Knight, but with better resource handling of the Equip Spells.

The Equip Spells are divided into 2 parts:

1. If sent to the GY or banishment: Do X.
2. If sent to the GY: Do X.  If banishment: Do Y.  

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=16116239 - Original 12 cards.

Expansion 1 further develops the archetype with 2 new cards that further enhance the versatility of the archetype.  

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=16238591 - Expansion 1 cards.

And remember the key is innovation.  You don't need to copy a specific TCG Meta deck to make a viable strategy.  Think outside the box.

Edited October 27 by WhiteThunder777

[Mzse1216]

On 10/26/2024 at 12:52 PM, WhiteThunder777 said:

Here's an example of what a successful custom archetype looks like.  This one uses Cyberse monsters with Equip Spells. VR-Gal is one I did myself, the artwork being done with a collab from another user on Discord.  They are Cyberse monsters that use Equip Spells that when sent to the GY or banishment, do something.  Think of Infernoble Knight, but with better resource handling of the Equip Spells.

The Equip Spells are divided into 2 parts:

1. If sent to the GY or banishment: Do X.
2. If sent to the GY: Do X.  If banishment: Do Y.  

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=16116239 - Original 12 cards.

Expansion 1 further develops the archetype with 2 new cards that further enhance the versatility of the archetype.  

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=16238591 - Expansion 1 cards.

And remember the key is innovation.  You don't need to copy a specific TCG Meta deck to make a viable strategy.  Think outside the box.

Thanks a lot for your response! They look good! I posted two different custom archetypes so far.

Is it possible you could give me feedback?

[WhiteThunder777]

On 10/27/2024 at 10:29 PM, Mzse1216 said:

Thanks a lot for your response! They look good! I posted two different custom archetypes so far.

Is it possible you could give me feedback?

Of course.  I'd be happy to. 
The Mask/Masked beasts would be very good as support - it sticks to the theme are the archetype.  A word of advice here, you'd want to get the resources you need which this shows.  And these are very well formatted retrains because they stick to the original.  IF you want to keep on making support, think about how it thematically connects to Lumis and Umbra first and then stick with that while making.

The Mirror Force archetype with monsters really good as a concept.  For a control deck, the goal is to disrupt your opponent before they have a chance to react. This control's strategy is forcing the opponent to attack, so you could have a Trap that forces the opponent to attack.

[LazerSwordKirbo]

If you are giving feedback, then will you look at a retrain I made?

 

[WhiteThunder777]

15 hours ago, LazerSwordKirbo said:

If you are giving feedback, then will you look at a retrain I made?

 

These are good example of how to do a retrain.  Because you're improving the function of how the deck works, that is a step in the right direction.  Good work, and keep it up.