[Written] Momentum Hulk | i dare you, to negate me!

[Dokutah]

Momentum Hulk

EARTH / Level 6 / Thunder / Effect

This card Normal summon, attack, and effect cannot be negated except by its own effect. When this card either would be Normal summoned, attack, or have its effect activated, your opponent can banish 10 cards from the top of his/her deck facedown to negate this card summon, attack, or effect activation. During your Main Phase: you can place 1 Momentum counter on this card (monster with Momentum counter gain 200 ATK for each of those counter); Draw cards equal to the number of Momentum counter on this card and then shuffle cards from your hand equal to 1 less the amount of cards you draw to your deck. You can only use this effect of "Momentum Hulk" once per turn 

2400 / 1000

[Darj]

Such an odd card. Does plenty for something that your opponent can simply negate by banish-milling 7 cards face-down. I really don't see this card threatening the opponent so if it doesn't stop the Summon, most likely it won't bother negating the effect or attacks. The only situation I imagine this card being useful is in mill decks and even then, it needs support to reach the field, costing you resources. I do have a question: how does it work when it's Summoned by an effect? Since it doesn't let the opponent negate the effect that would Summon it.

[Dokutah]

@Darj i guess it wont self negate itself since it is summoned via other card but probs at that point i might as well makes the self negation only work on normal summon just for sake of clarity

I guess the main solutions of the card is either banish a tonne more for the negation or making the effects and stat better (+ cheaper cost to summon probs)

maybe a level 6? Banish 10 and ability to gain attack (with momentum counter accumulation maybe) does sounds better

[Pommelo]

I have a question: Can this card's Summon be negated? Take a classic Jinzo vs Solemn Warning battle as an example. Jinzo negates Traps, but Warning negates Summons. Warning activates in response to Jinzo's Summoning and sends Jinzo to the GY because it technically never arrived at the field and couldn't ever apply its Trap negation continuous effect. Having said this, for this monster's effects to be activate, does it need to hit the field? Once it has established itself on the field, it's too late for the opponent to banish their 7 cards to negate this card's Summon? I'm unsure. My main problem is the wording. "When this card would be Summoned", it says, followed by a colon which indicates a chain starts. Then we have that this effect is one that includes this card doing stuff in many places (I think???), as in, the hand, because it requires the effect to be in the hand where it says "When this card would be Summoned", then we have effect activation, which I guess would include both hand and field, then attack, which covers field... this is kinda confusing.

[Loleo]

4 hours ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

I have a question: Can this card's Summon be negated? Take a classic Jinzo vs Solemn Warning battle as an example. Jinzo negates Traps, but Warning negates Summons. Warning activates in response to Jinzo's Summoning and sends Jinzo to the GY because it technically never arrived at the field and couldn't ever apply its Trap negation continuous effect. Having said this, for this monster's effects to be activate, does it need to hit the field? Once it has established itself on the field, it's too late for the opponent to banish their 7 cards to negate this card's Summon? I'm unsure. My main problem is the wording. "When this card would be Summoned", it says, followed by a colon which indicates a chain starts. Then we have that this effect is one that includes this card doing stuff in many places (I think???), as in, the hand, because it requires the effect to be in the hand where it says "When this card would be Summoned", then we have effect activation, which I guess would include both hand and field, then attack, which covers field... this is kinda confusing.

From what I understand it was intended that this card was unaffected by interactions involving its summon, attack, and effect (except it is able to be special summoned by other cards). In addition the wording hasn't been updated yet because only the normal summon was supposed to be negatable.

In application I believe the words don't work? Maybe you're right?

[Dokutah]

@Rayfield Lumina While i start to agree that the self negation part might need to be structured better i guess the jinzo vs warning is solved by the fact that monster that has "this card summon cannot be negated" exist (ex, Sophia and Tierra) in which the effect applies even as is it still not arrive on the field i guess in tied to that, the self negate also become usable the moment player declare this card would be normal summoned since its already public knowledge despite not hitting the field yet

[Pommelo]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:48 PM, ITSUKOSOADO said:

From what I understand it was intended that this card was unaffected by interactions involving its summon, attack, and effect (except it is able to be special summoned by other cards). In addition the wording hasn't been updated yet because only the normal summon was supposed to be negatable.

In application I believe the words don't work? Maybe you're right?

I wasn't sure how to respond to this because I was unsure, but then Jolly said:

On 8/3/2021 at 1:48 AM, Dokutah Jolly said:

@Rayfield Lumina While i start to agree that the self negation part might need to be structured better i guess the jinzo vs warning is solved by the fact that monster that has "this card summon cannot be negated" exist (ex, Sophia and Tierra) in which the effect applies even as is it still not arrive on the field i guess in tied to that, the self negate also become usable the moment player declare this card would be normal summoned since its already public knowledge despite not hitting the field yet

This part about the effect being public knowledge is interesting. I suppose that mean that the "Would be Summoned" is not tied to a hand effect, for instance. At any rate, while I concur that the card could use a different wording, I'll say that, at the risk of sounding as a broken record, that I'm unsure how to approach this case to leave 0 controversy in the card. I don't think this is a great idea, but how about adding an effect that forces you to reveal this card at the start of your Main Phase 1? That way, when the game state is open, the opponent can decide to banish their cards in order to negate the Summon before you even try to Normal Summon it.

At the start of your Main Phase 1, if this card is in your hand: Reveal this card. Your opponent can banish 10 cards from the top of their Deck face-down, and if they do, "Momentum Hulk"(s) in your possession cannot be Normal Summoned, attack or activate its effects until the end of this turn.

But this wording would affect both copies in the hand as to not let them be Summoned, and copies on the field so they cannot attack or activate effects. So, as mentioned earlier, perhaps not the best solution, but there's the idea in case it's of help.

[HQCardmaker]

So basically it has search momentum. Interesting.

[Darj]

13 hours ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

I wasn't sure how to respond to this because I was unsure, but then Jolly said:

This part about the effect being public knowledge is interesting. I suppose that mean that the "Would be Summoned" is not tied to a hand effect, for instance. At any rate, while I concur that the card could use a different wording, I'll say that, at the risk of sounding as a broken record, that I'm unsure how to approach this case to leave 0 controversy in the card. I don't think this is a great idea, but how about adding an effect that forces you to reveal this card at the start of your Main Phase 1? That way, when the game state is open, the opponent can decide to banish their cards in order to negate the Summon before you even try to Normal Summon it.

At the start of your Main Phase 1, if this card is in your hand: Reveal this card. Your opponent can banish 10 cards from the top of their Deck face-down, and if they do, "Momentum Hulk"(s) in your possession cannot be Normal Summoned, attack or activate its effects until the end of this turn.

But this wording would affect both copies in the hand as to not let them be Summoned, and copies on the field so they cannot attack or activate effects. So, as mentioned earlier, perhaps not the best solution, but there's the idea in case it's of help.

Not sure if I get the issue right, but you want a way to make the monster become public knowledge for the opponent to be able to negate its Summon. That shouldn't be necessary, players get to see monsters when their Summons are attempted and then can decide to negate their Summons with cards effects, that's how cards like Solemn Judgment, Black Horn of Heaven, Saber Hole, etc. can be played. In this case, the Summon negation effect is in the cards itself.

Now, I'm not sure how to write it because it looks more like an optional condition or cost for the opponent than an effect. General Raiho of the Ice Barrier comes to mind, in that it simulates your opponent's monster effects having discard cost, but it doesn't starts chains or activates, instead it behaves as a Continuous Effect. On the other hand, some cards that allow your opponent pay something to negate themselves are Magic Drain, and Scrounging Goblin, and those do start a chain/activate.

To keep it simple, I would for something like:

If this card is Normal Summoned: Your opponent can banish the top 10 cards of its Deck face-down, and if it does, negate this card's Summon and destroy it.

And separate effects for the rest:

If this card attacks: ,Your opponent can banish the top 10 cards of its Deck, face-down, and if does, negate the attack or effect.

During your Main Phase: Your opponent can banish the top 10 cards of its Deck face-down to negate this card's effect, otherwise place 1 Momentum counter on this card...