Pommelo Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Rainbow-Imprisoning Mirror Continuous Trap When this card is activated: Banish 1 non-DIVINE non-Token monster you control. Negate all effects activated in the field and GY of monsters with the opposite Attribute of that banished monster. During the End Phase: You can target 1 monster you control and declare 1 Attribute; that target becomes the declared Attribute, also Set this card. Once per turn, If this face-up card would be destroyed by your opponent's card effect, you can flip face-down 2 of your banished monsters with different Attributes instead. Alrighty so, as you can see, RIM is in general terms a buffed version of Light/Shadow Imprisoning Mirror, but with many modifications to try n' make it more interesting and versatile. Compared to the original ones, which negate Field and GY effects from a given Attribute without any cost, this one asks for a banishment, but covers the three places (hand, field and GY) and screws a different Attribute depending on the banished mon's own Attribute, and it also requires it to be an Effect Mon, so no Token fodder. What is opposite? I'm well aware this isn't an official term, but I like to use it here and there (this is not the first time I dare to use that). Common sense apply, WATER <-> FIRE, WIND <-> EARTH, LIGHT <-> DARK. In addition, this card can change a monster's Attribute and Set itself, getting ready to banish that altered monster next turn to serve your needs. Considering all of this, this card's proficiency will depend on the Deck. I've just said that it can be used by just about any Deck, as it will alter a mon's archetype to impact on your opponent's main Attribute, but evidently such set-up is lengthy and either this card or the altered monster won't survive, that's why this card is not limited, but better suited to multiple Attribute Decks, such as Elementsabers or Charmers. Comments and critique, appreciated as always. * I had to design this artwork piece by piece, 'cause I couldn't find a good picture for it. Got the mirror and the mandala, added the colorful effects, gradients and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loleo Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Love every aspect of this will be making complimentary cards soon maybe. 1. Negate opposite 2. change attribute 3. field precense 4. protection All amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted July 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, ITSUKOSOADO said: Love every aspect of this will be making complimentary cards soon maybe. 1. Negate opposite 2. change attribute 3. field precense 4. protection All amazing! Your comment makes me happy, thanks a bunch for your words! And yeah, by all means feel free to make a card based off this one n.n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyDee Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Very impressive card and more impressive for making the image itself. You somehow managed to balance all the effects I think as unless you play a banish heavy deck you will need to use it twice for it to protect itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Contrary to popular opinion, I confess I'm not a huge fan of this one. Light and Shadow Imprisoning Mirrors are such hard and harsh counters for their respective attributes as it is. They are still side deck options taken into account to this day. Your card can choose between either or more and has a wider coverage (including the hand). Then there's the Attribute-changing effect that re-sets this card... Granted, re-activating this card demands you banish a monster for it, but you setup the future cost with the attribute you want/need the most. This is a quick and chainable effect that could even be used to dodge stuff like Fairy Wind, not to mention it is a ticket to you always negating what the opponent uses the most and dodging having to negate your own stuff because you can just use this effect to turn it off whenever even if it was a mirror match and caused both to always be affected. The protection effect would be nice if it wasn't protecting such a powerful floodgate. Even if you have not activated this card before in the duel, if your playstyle gives you enough banished cards, your opponent won't be destroying this card even with ZEUS detaching 8 materials (AKA, nuking the board 4 times in 1 chain... well if ZEUS is not what's being negated that is). - - - - Though I have to admit it has some interesting and positive things (that get overwhelmed by the fact it all culminates in negating your opponent's existence, but still xD ) I like how the banishing to use can trigger stuff... I'd actually prefer the card to say "When you activate this card: Banish 1...." rather than "Activate this card by....". There's some niche cards like "Dark Desertapir" that'd become live with this effect. Basically the stuff that'd otherwise miss the timing. Zero Force would be fun... I suggest the "change 1 attribute and re-set this card" effect gets a very specific timing. I'd like it to stay chainable as it is if it did something less evil ( xD ) but for now I think something like "at the start of MP1" or "during the Battle Phase" or something that does not make it that much extra recilient. On the suggestion of the protection, I think it becoming once per turn and even potentially reduce what it can protect against. Something like "flip 2 of your banished cards face-down, including a card of the same type as the destroying effect (monster, spell, trap)". Stuff like that. On the floodgate effect itself, since it counts altered attributes (Scroll of Bewitchment, Elemental Mistress Doriado, Elementsavers, Reprodocus, DNA Transplant, Light & Darkness Dragon, etc.) and multi-attributed monsters probably reap further benefits... it wouldn't be too bad if it got a good old fashioned "nerf" xD This part is tricky because this sort of effect is 99.999% of the time either pretty much a win button to certain matchups or not good enough at all..... so oddly enough it is tricky. I'm inclined to suggest it choosing 1 (hand, field, GY) to affect but I'd have to see the card in action to make sure that wouldn't be overkill..... it also risks making it easier for this card to pinpoint and pin-down a playstyle if both for example ran DARKS but you used the GY and the opponent only field effects.... Another option is that "each player can banish 1 monster" as the initial activation and let chaos ensue as the card's activation makes it work both says (I'd argue even if both get screwed there, it'd still give an edge to the owner because the opponent might not always be prepared to banish something).... Just throwing ideas, something better might come up later xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted July 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 15 hours ago, MickeyDee said: Very impressive card and more impressive for making the image itself. You somehow managed to balance all the effects I think as unless you play a banish heavy deck you will need to use it twice for it to protect itself. Thank you very much for your comment. To be 100% honest, I was doubtful if this card was balanced indeed when I posted, hence why I decided to place this boi in Casual xD. As you point out correctly, this card will have more trouble in banishing-dependant decks, at least in regards of its own survival, also pretty useless if your own Deck is 1 Attribute mostly and your opponent's is as well, but when it's naturally the opposite, it should be rather terrifying. Btw, in case I explained myself incorrectly, I want to clarify that I didn't quite make the artwork, in the sense that I didn't design the Mirror and the mandala in the center. I got them around the net, and then I resized and applied filters so they'd look good, added the blue-ish mirror gradient in the middle, the one in the background and manually added the multicoloured dust. Sorry if I made you think I designed everything from scratch due to poor wording >_<, but thanks for the compliment on that as well. 14 hours ago, Sleepy said: Contrary to popular opinion, I confess I'm not a huge fan of this one. Light and Shadow Imprisoning Mirrors are such hard and harsh counters for their respective attributes as it is. They are still side deck options taken into account to this day. Your card can choose between either or more and has a wider coverage (including the hand). Then there's the Attribute-changing effect that re-sets this card... Granted, re-activating this card demands you banish a monster for it, but you setup the future cost with the attribute you want/need the most. This is a quick and chainable effect that could even be used to dodge stuff like Fairy Wind, not to mention it is a ticket to you always negating what the opponent uses the most and dodging having to negate your own stuff because you can just use this effect to turn it off whenever even if it was a mirror match and caused both to always be affected. The protection effect would be nice if it wasn't protecting such a powerful floodgate. Even if you have not activated this card before in the duel, if your playstyle gives you enough banished cards, your opponent won't be destroying this card even with ZEUS detaching 8 materials (AKA, nuking the board 4 times in 1 chain... well if ZEUS is not what's being negated that is). - - - - Though I have to admit it has some interesting and positive things (that get overwhelmed by the fact it all culminates in negating your opponent's existence, but still xD ) I like how the banishing to use can trigger stuff... I'd actually prefer the card to say "When you activate this card: Banish 1...." rather than "Activate this card by....". There's some niche cards like "Dark Desertapir" that'd become live with this effect. Basically the stuff that'd otherwise miss the timing. Zero Force would be fun... I suggest the "change 1 attribute and re-set this card" effect gets a very specific timing. I'd like it to stay chainable as it is if it did something less evil ( xD ) but for now I think something like "at the start of MP1" or "during the Battle Phase" or something that does not make it that much extra recilient. On the suggestion of the protection, I think it becoming once per turn and even potentially reduce what it can protect against. Something like "flip 2 of your banished cards face-down, including a card of the same type as the destroying effect (monster, spell, trap)". Stuff like that. On the floodgate effect itself, since it counts altered attributes (Scroll of Bewitchment, Elemental Mistress Doriado, Elementsavers, Reprodocus, DNA Transplant, Light & Darkness Dragon, etc.) and multi-attributed monsters probably reap further benefits... it wouldn't be too bad if it got a good old fashioned "nerf" xD This part is tricky because this sort of effect is 99.999% of the time either pretty much a win button to certain matchups or not good enough at all..... so oddly enough it is tricky. I'm inclined to suggest it choosing 1 (hand, field, GY) to affect but I'd have to see the card in action to make sure that wouldn't be overkill..... it also risks making it easier for this card to pinpoint and pin-down a playstyle if both for example ran DARKS but you used the GY and the opponent only field effects.... Another option is that "each player can banish 1 monster" as the initial activation and let chaos ensue as the card's activation makes it work both says (I'd argue even if both get screwed there, it'd still give an edge to the owner because the opponent might not always be prepared to banish something).... Just throwing ideas, something better might come up later xD Every single word above was a sting in my heart x_x. Lol just kidding, these are very well done and founded arguments. Like I mentioned to MickeyDee, I was doubtful it was balanced enough, though I'm grateful at him and Itsu for considering the card to be good... wait, 2 vs 1 means Sleepy is wrong, you've been defeated, my curly-haired friend xD. Alright, alright, I'll shut up and get to work. Hopefully the pals that have supported the card before will agree with your points as well, because I do. So I made some adjustments. Firstly, tweaked the first sentence to banish when activated and not by activating, so Desertapir be happy. Next, something you might not be too cool with, but funnily enough was an idea I had before and discarded as I was making the card, which was managing the negating zones as places and choosing 2 of them. I kept in mind what you said about matches with the same Attribute, and given that archetypes even with the same Attribute often work differently, this one change might make the card better for that one instance. As per the rest, it's a nerf in general terms, even if little, because normally archetypes won't use the three places, and once you have seen what the opponent uses, choosing the right 2 places should be piece of cake. Even if this change isn't too helpful, it's technically cool xD (not many cards use places) so let's go with it, pretty please with Meloetta on top. Next up, Main Phase 1 restriction added, followed by OPT for the protection effect, but didn't added the same type of card requirement, as I felt that was taking it too far (if your deck doesn't banish at all, how to expect to have Spells banished to apply the effect when this card is targeted by MST, Twin Twisters, Harpies n' stuff?). And finally, an original new clause, which renders the card helpless until the end of the turn at the cost of your opponent's banishment. I think this one is pretty helpful to balance the card, but I wonder if I should have made the banishment face-down. As the card is being considered OP right now, I opted for simple banishment, even though opponent Decks that rely on banishment will render this card useless (but that's what it's about, right?, Finding weaknesses). So yeah, brand new card, a lot more balanced, imo. What do you think? Giraffe Seal of Approval? xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 I congratulate the effort put into the revision, though I think the last effect is a bit too easy of a workaround. Everything ever can shut it down for a turn and that might be enough to make a huge push. I propose a more stiff cost if you wanna go that route: 1 banish x each time they want a single monster they want to not have negated that turn. OR a less generic route like they must banish a monster of the same attribute as the monster that was banished when this card was activated (AKA banish the opposite of what is being negated). Please don't stack both suggestions because that'd be a bit much xD As for the MP1 effect, I think you combined all my suggestions... OPT or MP1 was what I meant lol. Though even the MP1 bit is also overkill. I meant THE MP1 not just yours xD I think you can make it any MP of both players unlimited, OR OPT but any time. All in all, the card is shaping up better IMO xP EDIT: no not yet, I haven't worked in my seal of approval logo xP but it is Friday so in about 5 hours I'll get to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted July 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Sleepy said: I congratulate the effort put into the revision, though I think the last effect is a bit too easy of a workaround. Everything ever can shut it down for a turn and that might be enough to make a huge push. I propose a more stiff cost if you wanna go that route: 1 banish x each time they want a single monster they want to not have negated that turn. OR a less generic route like they must banish a monster of the same attribute as the monster that was banished when this card was activated (AKA banish the opposite of what is being negated). Please don't stack both suggestions because that'd be a bit much xD As for the MP1 effect, I think you combined all my suggestions... OPT or MP1 was what I meant lol. Though even the MP1 bit is also overkill. I meant THE MP1 not just yours xD I think you can make it any MP of both players unlimited, OR OPT but any time. All in all, the card is shaping up better IMO xP EDIT: no not yet, I haven't worked in my seal of approval logo xP but it is Friday so in about 5 hours I'll get to work on it. Aaaaalrighty, I made two new adjustments (was this card so screwed up? xD). So now, it's during either player's MP1 that you can target the mon for the alteration and Setting. Then I took your suggestion and made it so only 1 mon is spared from the card's influence, but I didn't go as far as adding an Attribute dependant monster because I felt the card is already relatively convoluted with many effects which happen to be slightly sui géneris. I'll wait patently for my seal of approval n.n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWanderingMist Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/29/2021 at 10:42 PM, Sleepy said: Contrary to popular opinion, I confess I'm not a huge fan of this one. Light and Shadow Imprisoning Mirrors are such hard and harsh counters for their respective attributes as it is. They are still side deck options taken into account to this day. Your card can choose between either or more and has a wider coverage (including the hand). Then there's the Attribute-changing effect that re-sets this card... Granted, re-activating this card demands you banish a monster for it, but you setup the future cost with the attribute you want/need the most. This is a quick and chainable effect that could even be used to dodge stuff like Fairy Wind, not to mention it is a ticket to you always negating what the opponent uses the most and dodging having to negate your own stuff because you can just use this effect to turn it off whenever even if it was a mirror match and caused both to always be affected. The protection effect would be nice if it wasn't protecting such a powerful floodgate. Even if you have not activated this card before in the duel, if your playstyle gives you enough banished cards, your opponent won't be destroying this card even with ZEUS detaching 8 materials (AKA, nuking the board 4 times in 1 chain... well if ZEUS is not what's being negated that is). - - - - Though I have to admit it has some interesting and positive things (that get overwhelmed by the fact it all culminates in negating your opponent's existence, but still xD ) I like how the banishing to use can trigger stuff... I'd actually prefer the card to say "When you activate this card: Banish 1...." rather than "Activate this card by....". There's some niche cards like "Dark Desertapir" that'd become live with this effect. Basically the stuff that'd otherwise miss the timing. Zero Force would be fun... I suggest the "change 1 attribute and re-set this card" effect gets a very specific timing. I'd like it to stay chainable as it is if it did something less evil ( xD ) but for now I think something like "at the start of MP1" or "during the Battle Phase" or something that does not make it that much extra resilient. On the suggestion of the protection, I think it becoming once per turn and even potentially reduce what it can protect against. Something like "flip 2 of your banished cards face-down, including a card of the same type as the destroying effect (monster, spell, trap)". Stuff like that. On the floodgate effect itself, since it counts altered attributes (Scroll of Bewitchment, Elemental Mistress Doriado, Elementsabers, Reprodocus, DNA Transplant, Light & Darkness Dragon, etc.) and multi-attributed monsters probably reap further benefits... it wouldn't be too bad if it got a good old fashioned "nerf" xD This part is tricky because this sort of effect is 99.999% of the time either pretty much a win button to certain matchups or not good enough at all..... so oddly enough it is tricky. I'm inclined to suggest it choosing 1 (hand, field, GY) to affect but I'd have to see the card in action to make sure that wouldn't be overkill..... it also risks making it easier for this card to pinpoint and pin-down a playstyle if both for example ran DARKS but you used the GY and the opponent only field effects.... Another option is that "each player can banish 1 monster" as the initial activation and let chaos ensue as the card's activation makes it work both says (I'd argue even if both get screwed there, it'd still give an edge to the owner because the opponent might not always be prepared to banish something).... Just throwing ideas, something better might come up later xD ...is there something I'm missing here? If ZEUS isn't being negated, how does this card avoid it, since ZEUS isn't a destruction effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, TheWanderingMist said: ...is there something I'm missing here? If ZEUS isn't being negated, how does this card avoid it, since ZEUS isn't a destruction effect? Oh, that's an oversight on me, I wrote that under the impression it was, going by "nukes the board" and "not OPT" so my brain just went "it can't possibly be that busted, right?". I don't think losing 1 example on that post would change the rest of what I wrote regardless but yeah.... that part was a mistake. 7 hours ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Aaaaalrighty, I made two new adjustments (was this card so screwed up? xD). So now, it's during either player's MP1 that you can target the mon for the alteration and Setting. Then I took your suggestion and made it so only 1 mon is spared from the card's influence, but I didn't go as far as adding an Attribute dependant monster because I felt the card is already relatively convoluted with many effects which happen to be slightly sui géneris. I'll wait patently for my seal of approval n.n Well.... there doesn't seem to be any post particularly disagreeing my feedback and shooting it down so I suppose my suggestions are going well? xD You have my seal of approval. I haven't drawn it yet (had visitors so could not get to work on the image) but you can rest assured that I'm satisfied with the card's alterations xP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 What the heck happened here? The card has changed too much and looks convoluted to me. It's like it both tries to lock the opponent and at the same time it offers him/her the means to play around the lock? what? You are being too careful for a situational floodgate that costs you a monster to activate. IMO lose the Attribute-changing effect, the effect that allows the opponent to protect a monster from it, and make the protection effect more situational in some way, for example requiring monsters with different Attributes. After that, I would make it negate effects of monsters in field and GY only, without having to choose 2 of 3 "places". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted August 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Darj said: What the heck happened here? The card has changed too much and looks convoluted to me. It's like it both tries to lock the opponent and at the same time it offers him/her the means to play around the lock? what? You are being too careful for a situational floodgate that costs you a monster to activate. IMO lose the Attribute-changing effect, the effect that allows the opponent to protect a monster from it, and make the protection effect more situational in some way, for example requiring monsters with different Attributes. After that, I would make it negate effects of monsters in field and GY only, without having to choose 2 of 3 "places". Thanks for the comment. Here's the deal: Right now, I have 3 excellent card makers suggesting me completely different stuff, Sleepy, Tinkerer and you, and I'm at a loss. I've followed Sleepy's ideas so far and the card seemed to be good to go, but today I received a review from Tinkerer, and now this reply (much appreciated). Honestly, you use the "convoluted" adjective pretty often, but that's present in a lot of official YGO cards, so I wouldn't worry much about that particular. So now I have to weigh the suggestions from the three of you guys and try to come up with something decent ~~~~~~~~ Welp, there it is. So, because you guys are boring are making sense, I removed the place selection effect and made it field and GY like the original Mirrors.Also deleted the effect that gave the opponent a roundabout to the card. Sorry, but I'm definitely not removing the Attribute changing effect, as that's one of the great appeals of the card, but following Tink's advise, I moved the window of activation to the End Phase so you can't get rid of its effects so easily. Finally, followed your other suggestion to ask for different Attributes. That was something that the card had during the beta stage, so I'm actually happy to implement it after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted August 1, 2021 Report Share Posted August 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Rayfield Lumina said: Thanks for the comment. Here's the deal: Right now, I have 3 excellent card makers suggesting me completely different stuff, Sleepy, Tinkerer and you, and I'm at a loss. I've followed Sleepy's ideas so far and the card seemed to be good to go, but today I received a review from Tinkerer, and now this reply (much appreciated). Honestly, you use the "convoluted" adjective pretty often, but that's present in a lot of official YGO cards, so I wouldn't worry much about that particular. So now I have to weigh the suggestions from the three of you guys and try to come up with something decent ~~~~~~~~ Welp, there it is. So, because you guys are boring are making sense, I removed the place selection effect and made it field and GY like the original Mirrors.Also deleted the effect that gave the opponent a roundabout to the card. Sorry, but I'm definitely not removing the Attribute changing effect, as that's one of the great appeals of the card, but following Tink's advise, I moved the window of activation to the End Phase so you can't get rid of its effects so easily. Finally, followed your other suggestion to ask for different Attributes. That was something that the card had during the beta stage, so I'm actually happy to implement it after all. Do I use "convoluted" a lot? Then it has to be because most cards that get my attention for reviews happen to be convoluted. And with convoluted I mostly mean cards with more than 3 effects, not necessarily complex effects which I agree do exist in the official game (e.g. "Small World", which has a weird effect and technically is a single effect, but it actually does like 4 things). But you will be hard pressed to find cards with 4+ effects, as it was the case for this card before the latest edit (the lock effect, the attribute-change effect, the protection effect, and the opponent's play-around effect). This new version looks so much clean to me. If the Attribute-change has to stay for flavor purposes, then I like the restriction you give it. I do see how the flexibility of being able to choose and in turn negate the Attribute of your choice can be annoying, but at the same time it takes turns and costs you a monster each time you activate it so in theory it should be fine and something that most meta decks can handle. Not to mention it is match-up dependent because poli-Attibute decks won't be affected as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 1, 2021 Report Share Posted August 1, 2021 I have only 1 inquiry here: Does the card it banishes HAVE to be an Effect Monster? Sounds like an effect old school vanilla beater-like decks would like a shot at using (you know how there used to be those strategies that played under Skill Drain as anti-meta at some point in history). Other than that, I like the transformation xD It was quite the tough path editing this over and over hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loleo Posted August 1, 2021 Report Share Posted August 1, 2021 I think it's perfect now no more changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommelo Posted August 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2021 Alright, it was quite the road, but it seems the final version of the card is up. The one tiny detail I changed in the end was due to Sleepy's comment 8 hours ago, Sleepy said: Does the card it banishes HAVE to be an Effect Monster? It was an Effect Monster because one of the very first things Tinkerer told me about the card, (when it was the most broken and wasn't even posted here) was that a single Tribute was negligible (and yeah, the very first effect required a Tribute). For this reason, I made the cost a banish, and went further by making it an Effect Monster as not to abuse Tokens. But I guess Normal Monsters should have their chance, so I changed the effect so it only segregates Tokens, making this card a racist towards gray cards (good, going, Sleepy :v). That Seal of Approval looks TOO GOOD, I'm too happy to be the first person to receive one (hopefully) xD EDIT: Also, mmm... when you say it was a tough path... well, kinda, but it was more fun than not. I still have a lot to learn, and making this kind of card is a good way to do so. Anywho, thanks to all the people that posted and helped n.n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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