Texas Senate Voting Bill

[cr47t]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/556142-texas-senate-passes-sweeping-voting-restrictions-bill

thoughts?

[Horu]

I'd have to agree with the voting restrictions that arr being put into place. I don't like them but given that we are barely 4 months into Biden's term and the states still running audits because somebody called them out on voter fraud is insane. So while I don't exactly like the restrictions, I do understand why they are necessary. Also, I was keeping tabs on the election and saw Trump's EC votes go from 220 to 202, this wasn't the only occurence of it happening but still pretty noteable. Especially when his opponent's votes increase by the same amount.

[cr47t]

16 hours ago, Horu said:

Also, I was keeping tabs on the election and saw Trump's EC votes go from 220 to 202, this wasn't the only occurence of it happening but still pretty noteable. Especially when his opponent's votes increase by the same amount.

i don't know where you got this information because it seems fishy to me, partially because i didn't notice anything like that, and also because you just said that 

16 hours ago, Horu said:

...that we are barely 4 months into Biden's term and the states still running audits because somebody called them out on voter fraud is insane.

also what makes these laws neccesary besides this? i don't see how audits running long justify certain provisions in the bill.

[Horu]

Well, the fact that there shouldn't have been audits to begins and we are now 6 months past the initial election date, and still running audits seems a bit troubling. Honestly, seems a lot easier to have a new election if they are that concerned about election fraud and if the case is as big as they are really claiming, it makes more sense to have a new election altogether. But odds are this is why the states are placing said restrictions first.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Good, can't let 2020's bs repeat 

 

The republic is at stake

[Horu]

21 minutes ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

Good, can't let 2020's bs repeat 

 

The republic is at stake

The issue with the 2020 election isn't who won. The issue is they literally stopped counting Trump's votes for like 3 days.

[531]

those that can’t win, cheat

[cr47t]

1 hour ago, ninjaxr4 said:

those that can’t win, cheat

unsure who is being referred to here, but i guess it could be read either way in context of both the article and the convo here. i don't want to ask which one, since you seem new to the forum, so here is some advice: people here tend to not budge in their opinions so be a bit careful?

 

1 hour ago, Horu said:

...they literally stopped counting Trump's votes for like 3 days.

sources, please? even if they're inaccurate or deceitful (which if they are i'll voice such) it's better knowing that you get your news from somewhere other than yourself.

[Phantom Roxas]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:34 PM, Horu said:

I'd have to agree with the voting restrictions that arr being put into place. I don't like them but given that we are barely 4 months into Biden's term and the states still running audits because somebody called them out on voter fraud is insane. So while I don't exactly like the restrictions, I do understand why they are necessary. Also, I was keeping tabs on the election and saw Trump's EC votes go from 220 to 202, this wasn't the only occurence of it happening but still pretty noteable. Especially when his opponent's votes increase by the same amount.

Prove that Trump's votes went from 220 to 202.

It's not that they were being called out on voter fraud, it's just that Republicans refused to accept the results of the election, demanded audits, and when the audits proved that the election was legitimate and the results were correct, people still demanded audits. Just because they keep demanding audits doesn't mean that they'll eventually find the results that they demand.

It's not that we're seeing new areas for audits, either. Republicans just want yet another audit in Maricopa. You're glossing over how Republicans picked a handful of areas and just keep demanding audits in those same areas, ignoring that those audits are entirely partisan. So, no, these restrictions aren't necessary. If anything is insane, it's the Republicans who still won't accept the results of the election.

[Horu]

Roxas, I would have to agree with you on the audits. But the fact we need audits to begin with, and especially the fact that they are still running audits 6 months after the election instead of just having a new election is something I find insanely stupid. Also, it isn't like Trump isn't gonna run again. 

I did attempts to find the video showing that they stopped counting Trump's votes but nothing actually shows the time lapse. They just mark the states as they vote.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

4 hours ago, cr47t said:

unsure who is being referred to here, but i guess it could be read either way in context of both the article and the convo here. i don't want to ask which one, since you seem new to the forum, so here is some advice: people here tend to not budge in their opinions so be a bit careful?

 

sources, please? even if they're inaccurate or deceitful (which if they are i'll voice such) it's better knowing that you get your news from somewhere other than yourself.

magic pipe burst in fulton county, and 70K new ballots found after the SOS said there wasn't enough to change the result

5 hours ago, Horu said:

The issue with the 2020 election isn't who won. The issue is they literally stopped counting Trump's votes for like 3 days.

yup, you don't see me complaining about 2018 despite it being a bigger assbeating

[Horu]

16 minutes ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

magic pipe burst in fulton county, and 70K new ballots found after the SOS said there wasn't enough to change the result

yup, you don't see me complaining about 2018 despite it being a bigger assbeating

Let's not forget that congress also tried to illegally impeach Trump. Find it funny that these are the guys writing our laws and they can't even understand them.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

A lot of not sources going on

[Phantom Roxas]

1 hour ago, Horu said:

Roxas, I would have to agree with you on the audits. But the fact we need audits to begin with, and especially the fact that they are still running audits 6 months after the election instead of just having a new election is something I find insanely stupid. Also, it isn't like Trump isn't gonna run again. 

I did attempts to find the video showing that they stopped counting Trump's votes but nothing actually shows the time lapse. They just mark the states as they vote.

Again, we actually don't need the audits. It's just Republicans complaining because they're unhappy with the results. Republicans being bitter and holding a grudge because their candidate lost does not mean the audits are needed at all. You need to understand that these audits are happening because Republicans have a vendetta, not because these audits are necessary. And, again, these were audits that already happened.

Okay, so we can once again dismiss the idea that they stopped counting votes. I know we had already debunked that about seven months ago, so maybe it would better if you dropped it permanently if you still can't back up that claim even now. Spending any more time digging up dead conspiracy theories gets us further off topic.

1 hour ago, Horu said:

Let's not forget that congress also tried to illegally impeach Trump. Find it funny that these are the guys writing our laws and they can't even understand them.

You can dislike that he got impeached, but the impeachment was legal. As I've already told you, a use of Constitutional power is not illegal just because you don't like it. Either way, this is also completely unrelated to the voting bill.

1 hour ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

magic pipe burst in fulton county, and 70K new ballots found after the SOS said there wasn't enough to change the result

yup, you don't see me complaining about 2018 despite it being a bigger assbeating

[Source: Dude trust me]

You're still complaining about 2020 despite the majority of your claims having been debunked alongside Horu's (again, seven months ago), so not complaining about another election while endorsing voting restrictions isn't really the brag you want it to be.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Alright. Before this discussion goes any further, I'm posting here to tell you guys in general to keep this discussion civil. If you have nothing to add to the discussion at hand, please refrain from posting in this thread.

[Horu]

2 hours ago, The Nyx Avatar said:

Alright. Before this discussion goes any further, I'm posting here to tell you guys in general to keep this discussion civil. If you have nothing to add to the discussion at hand, please refrain from posting in this thread.

Will do, Nyx.

 

Anyway, I am fine with the voting bill since it is a measure to prevent voter fraud. But honestly, it'd be better if it was on an app that couldn't be tampered with. The problem is the voters aren't accountable for 2020. It was the people counting the votes. So the bill should place penalties on the counters for sending out illegal ballots. Besides, Biden has no reason to upset about the voting bills to prevent fraud if his victory was legitimate.

 

Also, Roxas, the impeachment at the end of Trump's term was illegal. Since Biden was inaugurated and Trump no longer president, also democrats not having enough votes to proceed with said impeachment to begin with. The first impeachment trial was totally legal though. Constitutional Law requires Trump to remain president until the impeachment case is resolved. This means that Biden's inauguration should've happened on February 10, 2021. The day after Trump's acquittal. 

 

Again, back on topic to the voting restrictions. I think the police station or court house should handle voter registration and should also be responsible for overseeing the voting/counting process.

[Phantom Roxas]

You're still asking for penalties for actions that either did not happen or were legal. It is true that Biden's victory was legitimate and he can still criticize the voting bill.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/29/politics/texas-voting-rights-senate-bill-7/index.html

This article gives a good rundown on how it disproportionately affects either areas where black people live, or lean Democrat. The goal is to throw out an entire election if the outcome just ends up the way Republicans don't like, or it's actively preventing people from voting legitimately. This isn't about preventing voting fraud, it's about preventing certain demographics from voting at all. Claiming that this is just preventing 2020 from happening again plays into the lie that the 2020 election was somehow illegitimate, and makes for a convenient pretense that ignores how the bill is deliberately discriminating against people. It's about controlling the outcome of the election.

In other words, the only reason to support this would be to support rigging the election in favor of Republicans. It's easy to accuse Democrats of something they did not do in 2020 to pretend that this is somehow giving them a taste of their own medicine. It's easy for Republicans to make a false narrative, then claim that they're turning the tides, because their base still will not let go of dead conspiracy theories, so Republicans will allow this because they think this is preserving the election integrity they like to pretend they care about.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/03/26/no-more-pretending-republicans-admit-vote-restrictions-are-all-about-winning/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/mitch-mcconnell-admits-that-republicans-lose-when-more-people-vote/

You say that the people who count the votes should be held accountable, but those people do not make affect the outcome nearly as much as how many people are actually allowed to vote. Republicans get angry when Democrats want people to vote.

When Democrats want more people to vote, the right cries foul.

When Republicans want less people to vote, the right is cool with it.

Seems like the issue isn't whether people are voting illegally, that votes weren't earned by their candidates, or that people counted those votes improperly. It's that people voted for the Democratic candidate at all, and he won, so Republicans would rather screw over the whole electoral process as much as possible just because they're sore losers.

https://www.vox.com/22242411/trump-impeachment-constitution-senate-trial-william-belknap

Democrats did have the votes to proceed with impeachment; they just didn't have the votes to convict Trump. You also seem to be misrepresenting Constitutional law by suggesting that Trump remains president so long as the impeachment case is ongoing, when it should be that he wouldn't have been removed from office until a conviction. By your logic, any case where the defendant is acquitted would have been illegal. Although Trump was no longer president, he still has the potential to run again in 2024, so the goal was to disqualify him from office.

Why should police stations and court houses handle voter registration and counting votes?

[Horu]

The point of the bill is to prevent illegal votes from getting in. But I'm not opposing either side. I'd be cool with not being required to show ID or give any information to vote too. I mean, it isn't like I could totally abuse the hell out that system, right?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

13 hours ago, Phantom Roxas said:

Again, we actually don't need the audits. It's just Republicans complaining because they're unhappy with the results. Republicans being bitter and holding a grudge because their candidate lost does not mean the audits are needed at all. You need to understand that these audits are happening because Republicans have a vendetta, not because these audits are necessary. And, again, these were audits that already happened.

Okay, so we can once again dismiss the idea that they stopped counting votes. I know we had already debunked that about seven months ago, so maybe it would better if you dropped it permanently if you still can't back up that claim even now. Spending any more time digging up dead conspiracy theories gets us further off topic.

You can dislike that he got impeached, but the impeachment was legal. As I've already told you, a use of Constitutional power is not illegal just because you don't like it. Either way, this is also completely unrelated to the voting bill.

[Source: Dude trust me]

You're still complaining about 2020 despite the majority of your claims having been debunked alongside Horu's (again, seven months ago), so not complaining about another election while endorsing voting restrictions isn't really the brag you want it to be.

that the SOS said there were not enough votes? I've posted the source before. Your excuse was just that "he was wrong"

Yeah, the SOS was off by 200K votes. Such a healthy thing to have occur

[Phantom Roxas]

4 hours ago, Horu said:

The point of the bill is to prevent illegal votes from getting in. But I'm not opposing either side. I'd be cool with not being required to show ID or give any information to vote too. I mean, it isn't like I could totally abuse the hell out that system, right?

And does it only target illegal votes? How does it determine which votes are legal or illegal? What measures does the bill take to only ensure that illegal votes are stopped, without risking legitimate votes being blocked as a consequence?

Unless I missed something, the bill includes no mechanism for determining whether votes were illegally votes or disqualifying. Instead, it imposes arbitrary restrictions for when and how people can vote. That does not prevent illegal votes; it blocks random types of voting methods and time slots solely because votes cast through those methods or at those times were blamed for Trump losing.

2 hours ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

that the SOS said there were not enough votes? I've posted the source before. Your excuse was just that "he was wrong"

Yeah, the SOS was off by 200K votes. Such a healthy thing to have occur

I'm guessing you were fine with Trump asking Raffensperger to "find" 11k votes. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-georgia-phone-call-recording-secretary-of-state-raffensperger-audio/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/01/fact-check-georgia-audit-hasnt-found-30-000-fake-ballots/5253184001/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/weve-found-systemic-fraud-overturn-election-georgia-secretary/story?id=74560956

Raffensperger was saying that there were not enough instances of fraud to change the outcome of the election. Those 70k votes really do not contradict that statement, since you seem to be confusing votes cast in the Senate runoffs with some alleged influx during the Presidential election. Those 200k votes were also ballots that had yet to be counted as of Nov. 7, not a measure of votes he was off by when he made that statement about fraud on Dec. 6.

You need to distinguish when these events happened and what the numbers corresponded to. I'm concerned that you are not able to separate them. You would be better served in life if you were more willing to change your position when presented with new information.

[Horu]

Granted, the bill needs to be refined. But I still don't see why they bother with audits instead of having a new election. Then again, it is the US government and they have to do their political shenanigans before coming to the conclusion that a new election would have been the proper way to go.

[Phantom Roxas]

Horu, this is the last time I'll tell you this. Republicans keep doing audits because they cannot accept that Trump lost, and since they can't hold a new election, they're trying to invalidate the one we had.

You have your answer, now stop asking the same question over and over again if you're only interested in ignoring any answer people give you.

[Horu]

4 hours ago, Phantom Roxas said:

Horu, this is the last time I'll tell you this. Republicans keep doing audits because they cannot accept that Trump lost, and since they can't hold a new election, they're trying to invalidate the one we had.

You have your answer, now stop asking the same question over and over again if you're only interested in ignoring any answer people give you.

Anyway, even if the audits show fraud, the most they can do is either impeach Biden or redo the election. And given how folks feel about Harris, I don't really think they'd settle for the "Impeach Biden" route. But regardless, my point is that there comes a point where the audits become stupid and that point is when the people move on and stop giving a hoot who the monkey in the chair is. Yes, I do understand the purpose of the bill, and yes, I think it needs to be refined before it ever comes close to Gov. Abbot's desk.

[Phantom Roxas]

The audits have long reached that point where they became stupid.

I doubt that there would be a way to salvage this bill as something Abbott would want to sign. Democrats were right to kill this bill.

[Horu]

43 minutes ago, Phantom Roxas said:

The audits have long reached that point where they became stupid.

I doubt that there would be a way to salvage this bill as something Abbott would want to sign. Democrats were right to kill this bill.

The problem with the bill is that it holds the everyone accountable except the people counting the votes. Another kicker is the fact that you aren't a legal resident in the state of Texas until you've lived here for 5 years. So technically, that in itself should freeze your ability to vote for a full presidential term. But I think most states have that restriction.