Chauvin conviction for death of George Floyd

[Horu]

Seems I was wrong about Chauvin being the arresting officer. But still, his failure to take control of the situation is quite troubling.

 

Although, Floyd was arrested for counterfeiting and resisting arrest. As shown by both videos.

[Phantom Roxas]

Daily Caller? Okay, so you're still relying on right-wing propaganda, and you still haven't answered my original question about whether the jury was influenced.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/video-george-floyd-contradict-resist-trnd/index.html

Oh joy, so this is going to be yet another thread where you parrot talking points that were debunked last year, but deliberately ignore that because it's inconvenient for your narrative. He was not resisting arrest, and what he was arrested for did not warrant him being murdered.

[cr47t]

horu, you still haven't addressed my question from page 1;

2 hours ago, cr47t said:

horu, why are you so insistent on talking blame about just BLM and not so much about chauvin himself, esp. when BLM wasn't at all an original aspect of this thread?

 

instead of providing a rationale, you keep bringing in new things with the apparent expectation that their stance makes then trustworthy, rather than their factuality or potential relevance to the original topic. so please answer the question above, because without a rationale, there's no reason for us to take your word for it.

[Horu]

1 hour ago, cr47t said:

horu, you still haven't addressed my question from page 1;

instead of providing a rationale, you keep bringing in new things with the apparent expectation that their stance makes then trustworthy, rather than their factuality or potential relevance to the original topic. so please answer the question above, because without a rationale, there's no reason for us to take your word for it.

BLM "protesters" were outside the courthouse. It would be safe to assume that a riot would've broken out if Chauvin had be found innocent.

 

And yes, Roxas, I do agree that the reason for his arrest doesn't warrant killing him. But Chauvin's bodycam clearly shows him struggling against police and refusing to sit in the cruiser let alone remain in the vehicle. That is known as "resisting arrest", "failure to comply" and ultimately "suicide by cop". Floyd committed suicide using the cops as a scapegoat because he committed a federal offense that would've landed him in the slammer for a good 15 years.

[Phantom Roxas]

Thank you for admitting that you assumed what the reaction would be. So we can agree that there's no hard evidence that the jury was actually influenced by the protesters.

And there it is, you're blaming Floyd for choosing to die. For as much as you claimed you weren't trying to redirect blame, it didn't take you very long to blame Floyd for his own death.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

3 hours ago, cr47t said:

horu, why are you so insistent on talking blame about just BLM and not so much about chauvin himself, esp. when BLM wasn't at all an original aspect of this thread?

 

Because the absolute idiots might have given him the way to overturn his conviction (the title of the thread)

 

Don't take my word for it, the judge presiding over the case said as much

[Horu]

1 hour ago, Phantom Roxas said:

Thank you for admitting that you assumed what the reaction would be. So we can agree that there's no hard evidence that the jury was actually influenced by the protesters.

If you were on the jury, would you convict Chauvin to potentially ensure the safety of Minneapolis?

1 hour ago, Phantom Roxas said:

And there it is, you're blaming Floyd for choosing to die. For as much as you claimed you weren't trying to redirect blame, it didn't take you very long to blame Floyd for his own death.

Yes. I am blaming him. He was resisting arrest from the moment Chauvin arrived. And autopsy shows that he had overdosed. Fun fact about opioid overdose is that it can indeed induce a heart attack. Demi Lovato is proof of that. She suffered 3 strokes and a heart attack from her recent run-in with opioids. So yeah, George Floyd committed Suicide and Chauvin was a scapegoat.

[Phantom Roxas]

That first question is deliberate bait, and tries to conflate the safety of Minneapolis with the question of convicting Chauvin. I would convict Chauvin because I believe he's guilty, not because you're arguing in bad faith and trying to scare me with what would happen if I chose to acquit him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/30/facebook-posts/no-autopsy-doesnt-say-george-floyd-died-overdose/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/21/fact-check-george-floyd-autopsy-ruled-his-death-homicide/7317557002/

He did not resist arrest, and it was confirmed that he did not overdose. Actual toxicology experts testified against it, and even the medical examiner who performed the autopsy said the cause of death was “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law-enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression.”

For as much as you brag about "the truth smacking people in the face", you keep repeating lies even after they've been debunked. You're choosing to ignore the truth, even when there's nothing to support your excuses for why it's somehow his own fault.

You don't care about the truth. You want to blame George Floyd, and you're lying about what happened just so you don't have to change your mind.

[Horu]

Chauvin's did I not say that Chauvin's negligence is why he should have been hit with that manslaughter charge? Did you even watch the bodycam footage I showed you? It clearly shows Floyd refusing to get into the car, which is in turn, resisting arrest.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/resisting_arrest

Here is a link if you need a definition.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

2 hours ago, Phantom Roxas said:

That first question is deliberate bait, and tries to conflate the safety of Minneapolis with the question of convicting Chauvin. I would convict Chauvin because I believe he's guilty, not because you're arguing in bad faith and trying to scare me with what would happen if I chose to acquit him.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/30/facebook-posts/no-autopsy-doesnt-say-george-floyd-died-overdose/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/21/fact-check-george-floyd-autopsy-ruled-his-death-homicide/7317557002/

He did not resist arrest, and it was confirmed that he did not overdose. Actual toxicology experts testified against it, and even the medical examiner who performed the autopsy said the cause of death was “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law-enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression.”

For as much as you brag about "the truth smacking people in the face", you keep repeating lies even after they've been debunked. You're choosing to ignore the truth, even when there's nothing to support your excuses for why it's somehow his own fault.

You don't care about the truth. You want to blame George Floyd, and you're lying about what happened just so you don't have to change your mind.

What was Mr. Floyd's blood toxicity level on death and what is the lethal amount for a human

 

Just the two numbers please

[Phantom Roxas]

 

2 hours ago, Horu said:

Chauvin's did I not say that Chauvin's negligence is why he should have been hit with that manslaughter charge? Did you even watch the bodycam footage I showed you? It clearly shows Floyd refusing to get into the car, which is in turn, resisting arrest.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/resisting_arrest

Here is a link if you need a definition.

The video where they actually forced him out of the car and started strangling him, after he was begging and crying to them? Even Chauvin's defense could only argue that him claiming he couldn't breathe was resisting arrest. Witnesses also kept telling the officers that he wasn't resisting arrest. If you need to stretch the definition of resisting arrest, you're grasping at straws.

Do you want to comment on how the lies about the overdose were debunked? I thought you were concerned with the truth.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

23 minutes ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

What was Mr. Floyd's blood toxicity level on death and what is the lethal amount for a human

 

Just the two numbers please

11

"Peripheral blood concentrations range from near 1 ng/mL to well over 20 ng/mL with a median somewhere between 5 and 10 ng/mL, depending on degree of tolerance and presence of other significant drugs. Doses vary significantly depending on the route of administration and degree of tolerance"

one side will say "hey look 5 to 10 median" one will say "well over 20 if tolerance has been built up" and thusly it can't be used as a hard arguement

especially if he did not shows some of the symptoms "which includes nausea and vomiting"

[cr47t]

25 minutes ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

What was Mr. Floyd's blood toxicity level on death and what is the lethal amount for a human

 

Just the two numbers please

what doe any of this have to do with chauvin's conviction? it shouldn't be that hard to stay on topic in a political convo of all things

12 minutes ago, Phantom Roxas said:

 

The video where they actually forced him out of the car and started strangling him, after he was begging and crying to them? Even Chauvin's defense could only argue that him claiming he couldn't breathe was resisting arrest. Witnesses also kept telling the officers that he wasn't resisting arrest. If you need to stretch the definition of resisting arrest, you're grasping at straws.

Do you want to comment on how the lies about the overdose were debunked? I thought you were concerned with the truth.

do you mind providing the video or a source to the video? or is it not open to the public?

[Phantom Roxas]

3 minutes ago, God Emperor Cow said:

11

"Peripheral blood concentrations range from near 1 ng/mL to well over 20 ng/mL with a median somewhere between 5 and 10 ng/mL, depending on degree of tolerance and presence of other significant drugs. Doses vary significantly depending on the route of administration and degree of tolerance"

one side will say "hey look 5 to 10 median" one will say "well over 20 if tolerance has been built up" and thusly it can't be used as a hard arguement

especially if he did not shows some of the symptoms "which includes nausea and vomiting"

Especially when actual toxicologists agreed that, despite that level, it was nowhere near fatal.

But I doubt that people who testified about this and debunked the narratives will make a difference when Horu and Winter want to lie about George Floyd's cause of death because their political agendas are more important.

1 minute ago, cr47t said:

what doe any of this have to do with chauvin's conviction? it shouldn't be that hard to stay on topic in a political convo of all things

do you mind providing the video or a source to the video? or is it not open to the public?

The second video in Horu's post at the top of the page.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

2 minutes ago, God Emperor Cow said:

11

"Peripheral blood concentrations range from near 1 ng/mL to well over 20 ng/mL with a median somewhere between 5 and 10 ng/mL, depending on degree of tolerance and presence of other significant drugs. Doses vary significantly depending on the route of administration and degree of tolerance"

one side will say "hey look 5 to 10 median" one will say "well over 20 if tolerance has been built up" and thusly it can't be used as a hard arguement

especially if he did not shows some of the symptoms "which includes nausea and vomiting"

The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg => The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml

So Mr. Floyd was well into the range where it'd be putting him out or down. Even assuming 20 ng/ml w/ tolerance, he should still barely functioning. Officer Chauvin should have had the sense to not fucking kneel on the guy's throat for 9 minutes. But I'm not seeing the 2nd degree murder conviction when the guy is basically under general anesthetics. Likely already experiencing respiratory distress.  

The defense was utter shite. Chauvin did terrible things. Jury caved to the mob on the third charge. All three can be true

3 minutes ago, cr47t said:

what doe any of this have to do with chauvin's conviction? it shouldn't be that hard to stay on topic in a political convo of all things

do you mind providing the video or a source to the video? or is it not open to the public?

It has everything to do with Chauvin's conviction because opiates lower your respiratory drive, and Mr. Floyd was pushing the upper upper limit. Also this doesn't take into consideration the metabolic decay that would have occurred. It does wear off you know. And autopsy hours later might have understated the true BT

The question I'm trying to get at, did Chauvin just move a man's meeting with death up, or did he kill him?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

1 minute ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg => The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml

So Mr. Floyd was well into the range where it'd be putting him out or down. Even assuming 20 ng/ml w/ tolerance, he should still barely functioning. Officer Chauvin should have had the sense to not fucking kneel on the guy's throat for 9 minutes. But I'm not seeing the 2nd degree murder conviction when the guy is basically under general anesthetics. Likely already experiencing respiratory distress.  

The defense was utter shite. Chauvin did terrible things. Jury caved to the mob on the third charge. All three can be true

if he was "already experiencing respiratory distress" then that's even more reason for 2nd degree murder conviction.

"murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life."

literally what you're describing

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Just now, God Emperor Cow said:

if he was "already experiencing respiratory distress" then that's even more reason for 2nd degree murder conviction.

"murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life."

literally what you're describing

Yeah, but there's no indication that Chauvin knew that Floyd was dosed up with opiates. So a move (that he shouldn't have used), that might not have killed someone else, might have killed Mr. Floyd due to the external circumstances

 

The counter point is "I can't breath"

 

It was a poor showing on the defense's part

[Phantom Roxas]

It was established in the trial that Chauvin's actions would have been fatal even to a perfectly healthy individual, so they would kill someone regardless of external circumstances. Chauvin's actions alone were all it took to kill Floyd. His toxicology level is irrelevant.

Funny that you still can't show how the mob actually influenced the verdict, and just keep repeating the point ad nauseum as if repetition makes it true. Again, you don't like BLM, so you're trying to find a way to vilify them no matter the verdict.

[Horu]

Just a thought on the topic itself. Regardless of the side you choose and whatever facts are placed in favor of either Chauvin or Floyd, those arguments are being used to defend a criminal. Had Floyd been convicted, he'd be serving 20 years in federal prison. Chauvin looks like he should be enjoying a nice cushy 15+ in prison.

 

And no. I don't like or support BLM simply because they are terrorists. And Chauvin's conviction taught them that terrorism is an effective method. So why use diplomacy when you can just threaten to riot and burn cities to the ground? But I guess that since you're so offended by me calling them terrorists, you likely support them. You want proof of them being terrorists?

2014 Ferguson, Alabama

2019 Chicago, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Nashville....

Is that enough proof for you?

I don't need to villify them. I think we need more cops like Chauvin to outright shoot anyone sporting a BLM flag.

BLM doesn't give a rat's ass about what happened to George Floyd. They are using him as a cheap ass excuse to riot and murder cops.

What happened to Floyd was a tragedy. It honestly was. But justice, real justice cannot be carried out under the threats of terrorists.

So yes, I view anyone flying a BLM flag as a terrorist.

[The Nyx Avatar]

This thread is not going to go anywhere if it just derails like this.