Goat Format (April 2005 TCG format)

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

4 hours ago, ~British Soul~ said:

So I was looking at the disparity between release dates for Yugioh Video games (this was inspired by a community post on Cimo's YT channel), and what I found in terms of relevance to Goat Format was that technically, DD Assailant was never legal in Europe during this format. Destiny Board Traveler, the game that housed DD Assailant as a promo came out in NA in October 2004, however that game didn't come out in Europe until September 2005, two weeks after the banlist.

Goat Format generally uses the legality of cards for North America, based specifically on the pool and legal cards available up until one specific US tournament. I don't know which tournament that is, though, to be honest. There are some cards which have their legality in debate, such as Cyber-Stein since it was not widely available, but I think the community has pretty much decided at this point what to allow and not.

[~British Soul~]

10 hours ago, Zeppeli Gyro Supreme said:

Goat Format generally uses the legality of cards for North America, based specifically on the pool and legal cards available up until one specific US tournament. I don't know which tournament that is, though, to be honest. There are some cards which have their legality in debate, such as Cyber-Stein since it was not widely available, but I think the community has pretty much decided at this point what to allow and not.

I mentioned said tournament on the previous page: US Nationals/SJC Seattle/Indiana. But yeah I am aware that the community uses the US cardpool ('cuz fuck Europe), but I still wanted to mention it regardless, even if it is irrelevant. Also in the case of Cyber-Stein, yeah it was made widely available in DB2 in late July 2005, which was after those events.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

5 hours ago, ~British Soul~ said:

I mentioned said tournament on the previous page: US Nationals/SJC Seattle/Indiana. But yeah I am aware that the community uses the US cardpool ('cuz fuck Europe), but I still wanted to mention it regardless, even if it is irrelevant. Also in the case of Cyber-Stein, yeah it was made widely available in DB2 in late July 2005, which was after those events.

It is an interesting thing to note regardless, yeah. On a different subject, there was recently a 3v3 tournament, with teams competing against each other and whichever team gets 2/3 match wins first wins against the other team. The Goat Format community hosts a lot of tournaments like this, with different rulesets. Including one where you have to build your deck completely based on a gimmick, like only level 2 or lower monsters.

 

[~British Soul~]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:42 PM, Zeppeli Gyro Supreme said:

The Goat Format community hosts a lot of tournaments like this, with different rulesets. Including one where you have to build your deck completely based on a gimmick, like only level 2 or lower monsters.

That's an interesting ruleset. On that note, one ruleset I saw recently was that every deck had to have all 5 Exodia pieces.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

One thing that frustrates me about the format is that there actually are a lot of casual players in Goat Format, but the loudest voices are all competitive players. So I sometimes have a hard time discussing things with people, since they're only interested in the top decks. Despite the fact that it's been proven anyways that you can win with different decks.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I entered into a more casual online tournament for Goat Format. More casual in that matches are done throughout the week as players are available to do them. However, not casual in that Moxies is among the tournament participants, and he just won two giant tournaments recently. I faced him first match and won 2-1, then won 2-1 against the next opponent who was running a similar deck.

This is the bracket: https://challonge.com/t7ukg543

And these were my duels. I made a number of misplays since I was nervous, having not done a tournament in like 10 years.

Edit2: I won the tournament, but I was the closest possible to losing the entire way, so it feels like a hollow victory to me. Still, I made this video about it.

 

[Sleepy]

Hey question: This is a very obscure card but huh... "Desert Sunlight". It apparently flips the monsters face-up if they were face-down. So my question is about its interaction with Nobleman of Crossout. According to PSCT it sounds to me like flipping the target face-up in response to Nobleman will outright fizzle it entirely. Though is that the historical interaction?

As much as I mentioned not having as much interest in the format, I have a bulk of old junk around so I actually could assemble myself "Thunder Dragon Chaos" and found out my visualization of "best cards to dump in here" don't quite fit in the deck even if I were to go with no copies of cards.... and at that point the consistency would be way too bad anyways.
So I'm trying out some tweaks like trying out Desert Sunlight as a control out, not maining Swords or Scapegoats, and being trying out some ideas like a teched Return from a Different Dimension or considering other obscure ideas.

Thoughts even though I have had 0 games here.

Was considering Fake Trap but you'd have to give up the info on multiple traps if heavy'd, putting a disadvantage on the setup, and anything else is 1 for 1 removal so this might be situational, I also thought about Jinzo here. Other cards are fine despite this weakness but if Fake Trap is meant to be a defensive "out" it ought to have a little more coverage.

Torrential torments me a bit. It's a good out for Flips and there's not a lot of those, but maining it will give me a dead card if I pull it while I'm ahead.... also either I do the Summoning that triggers it, or let an opponent's flip go off so it is deceptively not as great of a wipe as I'd ideally like.

Solemn I thought would be an easy 3-of staple but the LP pay means I have to think about Preamature or Dark Balter, or Return from the Different Dimension. You can always pay 1/2 LP but it does put a damper on other options in the long run.... Even considered looking for a sonstant source of LP gain but Marie the Fallen One or Pikeru are the closest things to it and a Kykoo or monster removal (abundant in the format) would just scream "not worth it".

Dimension Fusion was tempting but LP cost is set at 2k so it's a lot easier to get out of range, and the opponent will gain advantage too so it's a no no.

Snatch Steal was iffy even as an absolute staple in the format given the amount of "face-down" time the format does.... but ultimately aggressive plays do exist and this is a very strong tool if held on until then.

Trying Compulsory. It is probably a worse Book of Moon but I wanna see how it goes....

Don't yet include Nobleman or Trap Dustshoot. The latter can easily be dead but the former is probably necessary so I'll do the fixes most likely.....

[Mr. Best Male 2008]

2 hours ago, Sleepy said:

Hey question: This is a very obscure card but huh... "Desert Sunlight". It apparently flips the monsters face-up if they were face-down. So my question is about its interaction with Nobleman of Crossout. According to PSCT it sounds to me like flipping the target face-up in response to Nobleman will outright fizzle it entirely. Though is that the historical interaction?

As much as I mentioned not having as much interest in the format, I have a bulk of old junk around so I actually could assemble myself "Thunder Dragon Chaos" and found out my visualization of "best cards to dump in here" don't quite fit in the deck even if I were to go with no copies of cards.... and at that point the consistency would be way too bad anyways.
So I'm trying out some tweaks like trying out Desert Sunlight as a control out, not maining Swords or Scapegoats, and being trying out some ideas like a teched Return from a Different Dimension or considering other obscure ideas.

Thoughts even though I have had 0 games here.

Was considering Fake Trap but you'd have to give up the info on multiple traps if heavy'd, putting a disadvantage on the setup, and anything else is 1 for 1 removal so this might be situational, I also thought about Jinzo here. Other cards are fine despite this weakness but if Fake Trap is meant to be a defensive "out" it ought to have a little more coverage.

Torrential torments me a bit. It's a good out for Flips and there's not a lot of those, but maining it will give me a dead card if I pull it while I'm ahead.... also either I do the Summoning that triggers it, or let an opponent's flip go off so it is deceptively not as great of a wipe as I'd ideally like.

Solemn I thought would be an easy 3-of staple but the LP pay means I have to think about Preamature or Dark Balter, or Return from the Different Dimension. You can always pay 1/2 LP but it does put a damper on other options in the long run.... Even considered looking for a sonstant source of LP gain but Marie the Fallen One or Pikeru are the closest things to it and a Kykoo or monster removal (abundant in the format) would just scream "not worth it".

Dimension Fusion was tempting but LP cost is set at 2k so it's a lot easier to get out of range, and the opponent will gain advantage too so it's a no no.

Snatch Steal was iffy even as an absolute staple in the format given the amount of "face-down" time the format does.... but ultimately aggressive plays do exist and this is a very strong tool if held on until then.

Trying Compulsory. It is probably a worse Book of Moon but I wanna see how it goes....

Don't yet include Nobleman or Trap Dustshoot. The latter can easily be dead but the former is probably necessary so I'll do the fixes most likely.....

Desert Sunlight will make NoC resolve without effect. It's a staple in decks like Baggio Control etc.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

2 hours ago, Sleepy said:

Hey question:

Desert Sunlight: It does indeed get around Nobleman of Crossout, and will trigger flip effects once its resolves. It's one of the cards that people have considered for flip turbo decks in the past, though a lot of people would prefer to play Spell Shield Type 8 for the same purpose, because it also works for other things like Snatch Steal, Book of Moon, Mind Control etc.

Fake Trap: Really only useful if you are playing a gimmicky strategy that requires a continuous trap to work, or you play very very heavy backrow. Generally not advised, but if you want to play like Skill Drain etc you could use it to good effect. Usually, people use Solemn as their go-to backrow protection from Heavy.

Solemn Judgment: Definitely a very powerful card, but indeed, the life point cost actually matters in Goat Format. If you pay half your life, you can just get run over by BLS and lose the game on that turn. So you have to use it wisely, if at all. Generally, Chaos Warriors usually play it, but a list topped a tourney recently that didn't play any at all.

Dimension Fusion vs Return: Definitely an argument to be made about which one to use, though generally it's considered that Dimension Fusion is used for decks like Reasoning Gate where they can combo off of the cards that get summoned, and which don't have many moves outside of that. Reasoning Gate doesn't want to topdeck a card that can't be played right away usually. They're not about grinding out the game, just winning in a single turn. Also, with Dimension Fusion, you summon the opponent's banished cards too, so if you play a lot of cards which banish, it can backfire.

Snatch Steal: Some decks can't use it too effectively, but if you play tributes its value goes up, and even in a deck without tributes you can steal games or clear the path for deal that last bit of damage needed. Especially painful if you manage to grab an opponent's Breaker with a counter. You can even steal an opposing Chaos monster and force it to banish itself if you had to for whatever reason. Giving them 1K LPs can sometimes be bad if they manage to stall you, but it's well worth the effect. It's preference if you play it though.

Compulsory Evacuation Device vs Book of Moon: Book of Moon is generally better because it has a lot of utility and doesn't get stopped by Royal Decree/Jinzo. Book means you can flip an opposing monster stolen by Snatch and gain permanent control of it, dodge a Mirror Force, Chaos Sorcerer, or Sakuretsu Armor, or re-use your flip effects. However, CED does have the advantage of being able to return set monsters to the hand, either the opponent's to set them back a turn and hit them directly, or your own to dodge Crossout etc. You can also save your own monster from Torrential Tribute or being banished by an opposing BLS.

Trap Dustshoot: An extremely powerful card early game, but definitely can be dead later game. Most people take it out when they know they will be going second for that reason, and don't run it at all against certain decks where they expect the opponent to play out their entire hand, like Chaos Warrior which sets a ton of traps usually.

[Sleepy]

That is very insightful.
Spell Shield Type 8 hadn't crossed my mind and Book of Moon is certainly enough of a prominent threat to make one think. Though I'm tempted to gravitate towards Desert Sunlight's upsides. Type 8 will negate 1 but then if the opponent has a second out, your flip will be outed, while Sunlight would ensure a chainable outcome.... it could give the option of triggering in response to removal like Breaker and still accelerating the flipping up. A quick Night Assailant in response to a Summon sounds fun. Also it can make all your monsters dodge Mirror Force.


Currently testing hands with everything else mentioned. I think Snatch is growing on me, but Compulse pushes back my tempo more than BoM when I try it on me and there's more anti-trap in the format than anti-spells so I ended up cutting it for now. 
I ended up having the discard fodder full package (3 Thunder Dragons, 1 Sinister Serpent, and 2 Night Assailants).... well, 1 assailant because it's all I currently have IRL right now, but the plan was to have 2. Though during testing I don't find myself wanting to loop them as much. I rather cash them in for a Magician of Faith or something else to keep the ball rolling instead of running in circles. Due to these cards I am testing triple Raigeki Break. There is probably an argument to be had about Divine Wrath or Wing Wind Blast over it, but I'm not a fan of spinning back as much, and Wrath sounds great considering the format has priority going on, but Raigeki Break is just the more versatile answer that can chain in response and even get rid of backrow....

I could not stand Dustshoot. It's pretty often dead.

I thought I was crazy for a moment for thinking of Dark Mimic LV1 when it seemed Dekoichi is the far more popular choice and Merchant covering the LIGHT side of things (and the Level 1 aspect for Metamorphosis).... but it seems there are some places that tech it.

Had to look up what Baggio control is. Sounds interesting.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

9 hours ago, Sleepy said:

That is very insightful.
Spell Shield Type 8 hadn't crossed my mind and Book of Moon is certainly enough of a prominent threat to make one think. Though I'm tempted to gravitate towards Desert Sunlight's upsides. Type 8 will negate 1 but then if the opponent has a second out, your flip will be outed, while Sunlight would ensure a chainable outcome.... it could give the option of triggering in response to removal like Breaker and still accelerating the flipping up. A quick Night Assailant in response to a Summon sounds fun. Also it can make all your monsters dodge Mirror Force.


Currently testing hands with everything else mentioned. I think Snatch is growing on me, but Compulse pushes back my tempo more than BoM when I try it on me and there's more anti-trap in the format than anti-spells so I ended up cutting it for now. 
I ended up having the discard fodder full package (3 Thunder Dragons, 1 Sinister Serpent, and 2 Night Assailants).... well, 1 assailant because it's all I currently have IRL right now, but the plan was to have 2. Though during testing I don't find myself wanting to loop them as much. I rather cash them in for a Magician of Faith or something else to keep the ball rolling instead of running in circles. Due to these cards I am testing triple Raigeki Break. There is probably an argument to be had about Divine Wrath or Wing Wind Blast over it, but I'm not a fan of spinning back as much, and Wrath sounds great considering the format has priority going on, but Raigeki Break is just the more versatile answer that can chain in response and even get rid of backrow....

I could not stand Dustshoot. It's pretty often dead.

I thought I was crazy for a moment for thinking of Dark Mimic LV1 when it seemed Dekoichi is the far more popular choice and Merchant covering the LIGHT side of things (and the Level 1 aspect for Metamorphosis).... but it seems there are some places that tech it.

Had to look up what Baggio control is. Sounds interesting.

It's definitely not cut and dry what is superior between Spell Shield and Desert Sunlight. They both have their ups and downs.

Compulsory is stronger when facing goat control/chaos control since they have Thousand Eyes Restrict, but unless you are going for a specific strategy using traps, generally you want Book of Moon over it since it also outs TER in a way. People have been gravitating away from maindecking BoM though, except of course in decks that use TER since it combos with it very well.

Raigeki Break is definitely the card of choice for most people since it permanently gets rid of backrow threats and stops flips from potentially being used, but there is something to be said about denying the opponent LIGHT and DARK monsters in grave and potentially setting them back an entire turn with PWWB.

In Goat Control decks, people are definitely gravitating toward using Dark Mimic LV1 due to Metamorphosis. Some people are even playing 1 copy of Dark Mimic LV3 alongside it, though the situation where its usefulness comes up is rare IMO.

[Mr. Best Male 2008]

Did ya'll get your new max rarity BoMs for GOAT yet tho

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

The Clash of Champions just concluded today, which was an invitational tournament where only winners of RL Yu-Gi-Oh! events and big online Goat Format tournaments were allowed. The lists are already up.

https://www.goatformat.com/home/clash-of-champions-top-8-decklists
 

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Given Perovic is a pretty big supporter of CRV, hopefully we can get a little more attention to the "other" goat format

[Sleepy]

30 minutes ago, Ryusei the Morning Star said:

Given Perovic is a pretty big supporter of CRV, hopefully we can get a little more attention to the "other" goat format

You mean the Reaper format that came afterwards?
Darj was telling me about it the other day too, and I've been watching those Cimo videos on YouTube with Nym and MBT playing around those eras as well.
Wouldn't mind giving it a shot, but it is a bit more of an uphill battle there. Nothing is quite as greatly documented and readily available as the Goat Format info with all those decklists and tournaments and even historical recipes on the unified Goat Format website.....

Honestly I think Konami should print a Battle Pack style set with all the main stuff from the Goat format era to make everything more readily available. I know Metamorphosis is like a 20 dollar common, Night Assailant, Sinister Serpent, Tribe Infecting, Cyberstain, Delinquent Duo.... there's a bunch of obscure things too. Stuff like BLS is cheap because of Toon Chaos but I recall alt art somewhere so it'd be a great chance....

Only thing I still dislike about the format is prio, which only serves to weaken chainable removal when a BLS or Tribe can just say "me first" (not that Chaos Sorc or BLS need such a push though).... but oh well.... 

 

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Personally, I do like a number of the banlist changes they made with CRV, but the Cyber Dragon cards are extremely problematic and cause a lot of OTKs, much easier to achieve and even splash, Cyber Dragon simply outclasses any normal summon/set a player can make and takes no set up or dedication, and Confiscation is still an OP card even if Duo can potentially hurt more.

Priority is a bit iffy, that much is true, but I think it keeps removal from being way out of control since there is so much unlimited removal in the format.

[Sleepy]

22 minutes ago, Zeppeli Gyro Supreme said:

Personally, I do like a number of the banlist changes they made with CRV, but the Cyber Dragon cards are extremely problematic and cause a lot of OTKs, much easier to achieve and even splash, Cyber Dragon simply outclasses any normal summon/set a player can make and takes no set up or dedication, and Confiscation is still an OP card even if Duo can potentially hurt more.

Priority is a bit iffy, that much is true, but I think it keeps removal from being way out of control since there is so much unlimited removal in the format.

I do give it credit that it makes it harder to establish a board where you can just negate everything the opponent can possibly do, when their Raigeki Break or Ring won't save your monster from the Sorcerer/BLS, that much I have to admit.  

My mind goes back to PePe days (2015) when you dropped Crystal Wing, Vortex Dragon, Majespecter Kirin, Meteorburst Dragon, and something else as you set your Solemn cards that Ariadne searched out and kept almost a full hand. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

1 hour ago, Zeppeli Gyro Supreme said:

Personally, I do like a number of the banlist changes they made with CRV, but the Cyber Dragon cards are extremely problematic and cause a lot of OTKs, much easier to achieve and even splash, Cyber Dragon simply outclasses any normal summon/set a player can make and takes no set up or dedication, and Confiscation is still an OP card even if Duo can potentially hurt more.

Priority is a bit iffy, that much is true, but I think it keeps removal from being way out of control since there is so much unlimited removal in the format.

Actually no. Kuriboh becomes very good in the post CRV April format. Searchable off sangan. Pitchable lv 1 dark. 

Chaos variants become even more dominant 

2 hours ago, Sleepy said:

You mean the Reaper format that came afterwards?
Darj was telling me about it the other day too, and I've been watching those Cimo videos on YouTube with Nym and MBT playing around those eras as well.
Wouldn't mind giving it a shot, but it is a bit more of an uphill battle there. Nothing is quite as greatly documented and readily available as the Goat Format info with all those decklists and tournaments and even historical recipes on the unified Goat Format website.....

Honestly I think Konami should print a Battle Pack style set with all the main stuff from the Goat format era to make everything more readily available. I know Metamorphosis is like a 20 dollar common, Night Assailant, Sinister Serpent, Tribe Infecting, Cyberstain, Delinquent Duo.... there's a bunch of obscure things too. Stuff like BLS is cheap because of Toon Chaos but I recall alt art somewhere so it'd be a great chance....

Only thing I still dislike about the format is prio, which only serves to weaken chainable removal when a BLS or Tribe can just say "me first" (not that Chaos Sorc or BLS need such a push though).... but oh well.... 

 

Nope, like still April format. TCG only got CRV in the tail end of the format. But it was there for a while. Certain cards become worse, certain a lot better

 

The idea that it's dominated by OTKs isn't really true

Here is my CRV build for example. It's somewhat based on the Chaos Phoenix version I'm known for, but sufficiently different. 

 

Ironically BLS is substantially weakened since you have a solid chance of walking into a Kuriboh+Snatch/Brain

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

The results of the Goat Community Italia tournament that was up at the same time as Clash of Champions has been posted as well. A lot of interesting lists.

https://www.facebook.com/GoatItalia/photos/pcb.2138321732976425/2138321042976494

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

GFC 12 happened, and I participated again, this time snagging a tied 9th place. Delinkquent won with Zombies again! I got a deck tech during the tournament at least.

https://www.goatformat.com/home/goat-format-championship-12-deck-tech-zombie

 

VERY SPICY TOP 8 LISTS
https://www.goatformat.com/home/goat-format-championship-12-top-8-deck-list

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Goat Control won a tournament for the first time in a year. Though there were less than 30 participants in this one.

https://www.goatformat.com/home/patreon-world-championship-qualifier-3-top-8-decklist

[~British Soul~]

Chaos Command Magician in that winning list is an interesting choice indeed.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

4 hours ago, ~British Soul~ said:

Chaos Command Magician in that winning list is an interesting choice indeed.

Their reasoning is that it is a LIGHT, a direct counter to Chaos Sorcerer, who can neither use its effect to banish it nor attack over it in attack mode, and forced BLS to attack and possibly run into battle traps. Its level is also desirable for Metamorphosis, and unlike Air Knight Parshath, can take on Gravekeeper's Spy and boosted Blade Knights.

[~British Soul~]

56 minutes ago, Zeppeli Gyro Supreme said:

Their reasoning is that it is a LIGHT, a direct counter to Chaos Sorcerer, who can neither use its effect to banish it nor attack over it in attack mode, and forced BLS to attack and possibly run into battle traps. Its level is also desirable for Metamorphosis, and unlike Air Knight Parshath, can take on Gravekeeper's Spy and boosted Blade Knights.

Funnily enough, literally 30 seconds ago I was thinking "Oh yeah, it can't be Exiled Force'd either".

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

3 hours ago, ~British Soul~ said:

Funnily enough, literally 30 seconds ago I was thinking "Oh yeah, it can't be Exiled Force'd either".

Yeah, there are a few other niche applications like protecting from Zaborg, Newdoria and Exiled Force, though there is a lot of non-targeting removal in the format from monsters, like Tribe Infecting Virus and D.D. Warrior Lady. Still, it worked for the dude, and I have to give them props for having the balls to try it.