Ties Of The Thunder Duo

[Shadowring]

This card is always treated as "Sekka's Light".
Activate 1 of these effects:
● If you control "Thunder King Rai-Oh", Special Summon 1 "Denko Sekka" from your hand, Deck, GY or that is banished, ignoring it's Summoning conditions.
● If you control "Denko Sekka", Special Summon 1 "Thunder King Rai-Oh" from your hand, Deck, GY or that is banished.
You can Banish  this card from your GY, then target a Level 4 LIGHT Thunder-Type monster you control that is not named "Thunder King Rai-Oh" or "Denko Sekka"; Special Summon 1 "Thunder King Rai-Oh" and 1 "Denko Sekka" from your hand, Deck, GY and/or that is banished, ignoring it's summoning conditions, also for the rest of this turn, you cannot Special Summon monsters, except from the Extra Deck. You can only use 1 effect of "Ties Of The Thunder Duo" once per turn and only once that turn.

[Tinkerer]

I don't get it.  Why do you keep insisting on mashing these two specific monsters together with nothing tying them other than you can put them in the same Thunder Stun strategy?  At that point, you could replace either name with "Zap Mustung"/"Thunderclap Monk"/"Lightning Rod Lord" and it would have the same amount of flavor...

The idea of supporting your favorite strategy is fine, but for the love of Ra, try to make your support more open-ended.  Give it a way to use what you made effectively without specifically pigeonholing yourself into exactly 1 play.

 

As for the card itself... it's annoying.  It appears to be meant to help with the deck's poor consistency, but it doesn't really do that.  It is a decent effect that lets you get out a powerful floodgate for free, but it is also 100% reliant on having another very specific monster to do anything.  Comparing this to Ties of the Brethren, it trades the raw flexibility and the +1 offered by Brethren for the ability to use its own effect a second time in the GY. 

The issue is: 1. This is so specific to trigger that it doesn't actually increase the deck's consistency much* and 2. This doesn't actually do anything else to fix any of the deck's other problems.  What if you go second?  What if the opponent nukes your board?  What if the opponent gets out a 2000+ ATK monster?  As a whole, this card is likely to end up being a brick a lot more than it will be useful and you will almost never want to draw it past turn 1.

*It has better consistency if you use it alongside Foolish Burial Goods.  You would have 6 Rai-Ohs/Sekkas and "6" of this, which gives you an ok chance of opening both.

[Shadowring]

10 hours ago, Mr Melon said:

I don't get it.  Why do you keep insisting on mashing these two specific monsters together with nothing tying them other than you can put them in the same Thunder Stun strategy?  At that point, you could replace either name with "Zap Mustung"/"Thunderclap Monk"/"Lightning Rod Lord" and it would have the same amount of flavor...

The idea of supporting your favorite strategy is fine, but for the love of Ra, try to make your support more open-ended.  Give it a way to use what you made effectively without specifically pigeonholing yourself into exactly 1 play.

 

As for the card itself... it's annoying.  It appears to be meant to help with the deck's poor consistency, but it doesn't really do that.  It is a decent effect that lets you get out a powerful floodgate for free, but it is also 100% reliant on having another very specific monster to do anything.  Comparing this to Ties of the Brethren, it trades the raw flexibility and the +1 offered by Brethren for the ability to use its own effect a second time in the GY. 

The issue is: 1. This is so specific to trigger that it doesn't actually increase the deck's consistency much* and 2. This doesn't actually do anything else to fix any of the deck's other problems.  What if you go second?  What if the opponent nukes your board?  What if the opponent gets out a 2000+ ATK monster?  As a whole, this card is likely to end up being a brick a lot more than it will be useful and you will almost never want to draw it past turn 1.

*It has better consistency if you use it alongside Foolish Burial Goods.  You would have 6 Rai-Ohs/Sekkas and "6" of this, which gives you an ok chance of opening both.

Im plaining to do an archetype focused of thunder king and denko, thats why the card is always treated as sekkas light. So theres no reason to include the other thunders in the mix. Also the card has 2 different plays while being reasonable since you can only activate one of them per turn, kinda like thunder dragons. Also Ties of the brethren forbbids you from attaacking as well, while this card doesnt do that as well as you can special from the extra, which maybe good in other archetypes like hunders and thunder dragons. Its not that consistent cause it depends on specifics monsters to be on the field, but that the purpose of the card, do good things without being generic, like dragon and verte anaconda combo. Also foolish burial goods is another way to use the card like you pointed. The purpose of the card isnt to fix all the problems but connect these 2 monsters with some consistency, I do have in mind a trap card that activate from hand that can special any level 4 light thunder type monster from the deck during your opponents turn ignoring its summoning conditions, so just slaps a mustung during your opponent turn and no special summons for him. With raioh and sekka on the field only meta decks will be able to nuke my field unless they draw some op thing like impermanence or dark ruler no more. For 2000+ ATK monster we can use honest except if that monster is inspector boarder, then only cards like moon mirror shield do the job. Like I said Im working on a rai-oh/sekka archetype, so Ill do something to search this card as well as other card of the said archetype.

[Tinkerer]

There's a lot being said here.  Lemme take things one at a time.

4 minutes ago, Gogeta gt said:

Im plaining to do an archetype focused of thunder king and denko, thats why the card is always treated as sekkas light. So theres no reason to include the other thunders in the mix.

I suppose that would work then.  That said, it would have been helpful to make multiple cards and post them together so that people can build an expectation that that is what you are doing.  Even then, it would probably be infinitely better if this card supported "Thunder monsters whose total ATK/DEF equals 2700".  It would still almost exclusively limit it to Rai-Oh and Sekka, but you'd have plausible deniability as well as a tiny bit of extra flexibility.  You would even be able to add your own monsters to support them better.

9 minutes ago, Gogeta gt said:

Also Ties of the brethren forbbids you from attaacking as well, while this card doesnt do that as well as you can special from the extra, which maybe good in other archetypes like hunders and thunder dragons.

...but those "advantages" that this card has doesn't help the deck in practice.  If the attacking restriction is an issue with Ties, then that means you're going second at which point you probably have a lot more to worry about (i.e. the opponent negating Ties/the opponent having a several big monsters).

Allowing you to Special Summon from the extra... also doesn't matter since you'd be losing your stun cards which are much more valuable.  You'd much rather keep your Denko/Thunder King than use them as Material.  I assume you'll respond with "but Hunders!", and I will just say that "That is a 4-card combo and you are pretty much forcing an entire deck around this 1 card".  This card isn't like That Grass is Greener or Card of Demise: It's not good enough to be the focus of the deck.

27 minutes ago, Gogeta gt said:

...I do have in mind a trap card that activate from hand that can special any level 4 light thunder type monster from the deck during your opponents turn ignoring its summoning conditions, so just slaps a mustung during your opponent turn and no special summons for him.

Please don't make this a thing.  That is on the entire other end of the spectrum, being way too good specifically because of how the Level 4 Thunders work and because of how overly generic that sounds.

38 minutes ago, Gogeta gt said:

With raioh and sekka on the field only meta decks will be able to nuke my field unless they draw some op thing like impermanence or dark ruler no more. For 2000+ ATK monster we can use honest except if that monster is inspector boarder, then only cards like moon mirror shield do the job. Like I said Im working on a rai-oh/sekka archetype, so Ill do something to search this card as well as other card of the said archetype.

It's actually kinda funny because there are a decent amount of outs to a board like this and rogue decks might actually have a much easier time breaking it than meta decks.  Outside of Imperm and DRNM, turn 2 decks have stuff like Evenly Matched, Super Poly, and Lightning Storm (ironically).  Heck, even "cheap" removal can break the board: Kaijus, Dark Hole, Raigeki.

While Rai-Oh is really powerful, meta decks tend to play with the assumption that the opponent has Ash Blossom, which means they typically have means of drawing or special summoning enough to make some plays work.  Denko is even more conditional and generally less helpful against most decks.

Most of this runs under the assumption that you will go first which is also not a certainty.

As for Honest... that is barely an argument.  Honest is a 1-time, battle-based out that assumes you have a very specific 3-card opening hand (Denko/Rai-Oh + Thunder Duo/Foolish Goods + Honest).  It works when it works, but it is extremely inconsistent and not something to rely on.

1 hour ago, Gogeta gt said:

Like I said Im working on a rai-oh/sekka archetype, so Ill do something to search this card as well as other card of the said archetype.

This is something that I can wholly agree on.  I'd still rather see these be a little more open-ended, but if the support actually works to help the strategy effectively, it should be fine.  Make sure you recognize the strategy's weaknesses and try to make the cards with those weaknesses in mind.

[Shadowring]

3 minutes ago, Mr Melon said:

There's a lot being said here.  Lemme take things one at a time.

I suppose that would work then.  That said, it would have been helpful to make multiple cards and post them together so that people can build an expectation that that is what you are doing.  Even then, it would probably be infinitely better if this card supported "Thunder monsters whose total ATK/DEF equals 2700".  It would still almost exclusively limit it to Rai-Oh and Sekka, but you'd have plausible deniability as well as a tiny bit of extra flexibility.  You would even be able to add your own monsters to support them better.

...but those "advantages" that this card has doesn't help the deck in practice.  If the attacking restriction is an issue with Ties, then that means you're going second at which point you probably have a lot more to worry about (i.e. the opponent negating Ties/the opponent having a several big monsters).

Allowing you to Special Summon from the extra... also doesn't matter since you'd be losing your stun cards which are much more valuable.  You'd much rather keep your Denko/Thunder King than use them as Material.  I assume you'll respond with "but Hunders!", and I will just say that "That is a 4-card combo and you are pretty much forcing an entire deck around this 1 card".  This card isn't like That Grass is Greener or Card of Demise: It's not good enough to be the focus of the deck.

Please don't make this a thing.  That is on the entire other end of the spectrum, being way too good specifically because of how the Level 4 Thunders work and because of how overly generic that sounds.

It's actually kinda funny because there are a decent amount of outs to a board like this and rogue decks might actually have a much easier time breaking it than meta decks.  Outside of Imperm and DRNM, turn 2 decks have stuff like Evenly Matched, Super Poly, and Lightning Storm (ironically).  Heck, even "cheap" removal can break the board: Kaijus, Dark Hole, Raigeki.

While Rai-Oh is really powerful, meta decks tend to play with the assumption that the opponent has Ash Blossom, which means they typically have means of drawing or special summoning enough to make some plays work.  Denko is even more conditional and generally less helpful against most decks.

Most of this runs under the assumption that you will go first which is also not a certainty.

As for Honest... that is barely an argument.  Honest is a 1-time, battle-based out that assumes you have a very specific 3-card opening hand (Denko/Rai-Oh + Thunder Duo/Foolish Goods + Honest).  It works when it works, but it is extremely inconsistent and not something to rely on.

This is something that I can wholly agree on.  I'd still rather see these be a little more open-ended, but if the support actually works to help the strategy effectively, it should be fine.  Make sure you recognize the strategy's weaknesses and try to make the cards with those weaknesses in mind.

You do have a point on the 2700 ATK+DEF thing, its very interesting, but I still feel that it only should support thunder king and denko. The attack can be very important, if you can bring extra monsters on the field to attack and do more damage to opponent. Allowing you to special from extra helps a lot if youre playing hunder, just put it cause of hunders. Well I suppose you didnt like the special summon lock into the opponent turn, so what do you suggest for going second plays?

I like how you say those removals, still none of them are searchable (which wouldnt matter once rai-oh is in play) so the opponent has just to hard draw them, not to mention that they most likely wouldnt be running all of them since no engine is this small. 

Anyway this is just a consistency card, is not supposed to counter all plays or prevent the opponent on their turn, if thats the case, i just need to create another card with that purpose. This card is just to further lock the opponent so you must use it in combination of other cards, cause you cant just expect all the cards need to ve 1 card combo to be good.

Im thinking on doing an archetype like eldlich where it has low quantity of monsters, but plenty of spell/trap cards to support it. Still I need inspiration and preferentially good artworks to put on those cards