Twiceborn Archetype

[morrisoni4]

I posted this name in the Archetype Game a while back, and while the next person came up with an interesting idea, I decided to expand more on my original vision of the archetype. They are DARK monsters of varying types, all have varying effects that only activate when they are Summoned from the GY after being Normal Summoned once, including becoming Zombie-Type.

 

“Twiceborn Mage”

Level 4/DARK/Spellcaster/Effect/1500/1000

This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. If this Normal Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY that was Normal Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Mage"; Special Summon that target. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• All monsters your opponent controls lose 500 ATK/DEF

 

“Twiceborn Knight”

Level 4/DARK/Warrior/Effect/1500/1000

This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. If this Normal Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY that was Normal Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Knight"; Special Summon that target. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• All “Twiceborn” monsters you control can attack twice per Battle Phase.

 

“Twiceborn Hacker”

Level 4/DARK/Cyberse/Effect/1500/500

This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. If this Normal Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY that was Normal Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Hacker"; Special Summon that target. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• Once per turn, both player's look at each other's hands, then both players send 1 monster from each player's hand to the GY, and they do, during the End Phase of this turn, both players Special Summon the monsters their opponent sent to the GY by this effect.

 

“Twiceborn Dragon”

Level 4/DARK/Dragon/Effect/0/2000

This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. If this Normal Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY that was Normal Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Dragon"; Special Summon that target. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect

• Cannot attack. While you control this card in Defense Position, your opponent cannot attack "Twiceborn" monsters you control, except this one.

 

“Once Gone, Twiceborn”

Spell

Send 1 Normal or Xyz Summoned “Twiceborn” monster you control to the GY.

 

“Twiceborn Necromancy”

Continuous Spell

You can only activate this card's effect if you control a Normal or Xyz Summoned "Twiceborn" monster. You can pay 500 LP; Normal Summon 1 "Twiceborn" monster from your GY. You can only use this effect of "Twiceborn Necromancy" once per turn. You cannot Normal Summon/Set from your hand the turn you activate this effect.

 

"Twicereborn"

Trap

Target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY; Special Summon it. During your Main Phase, except the turn this card was sent to the GY: You can banish this card from your GY; send 1 "Twiceborn" monster you control to the GY.

 

And there we go. Any CnC is appreciated.

[Pommelo]

All right, this is interesting. What worries me a little is that, since all of these guys are Lv 6, you're pretty much limited to use Twicereborn in order to summon them, not counting all the others monsters you'd use to complete the Deck, obviously.  My favourite card was Necromancy, as Normal Summoning from your GY is pretty innovative, but that doesn't exclude that you have to Tribute Summon in order to Summon any Twiceborn monster. I quite understand the fact that they become zombies when they're back to the field as that's the whole point of being called Twiceborn, but I wish they could be treated as Zombie-Types, even in the GY, because this not being the case will greatly limit the amount of zombie support you could have used for them, such as the classic Book of Life.

Anyway, allow me to help you a bit with the card grammar.

Quote

Twiceborn Mage

If this Normal Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY that was Normal Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Mage"; Special Summon that target, and if you do, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• All monsters your opponent controls lose 500 ATK/DEF.

This is the typical effect structure of today's meta. Of course, you might intend the effect to don't start a chain, which would change things. If you agree with this structure, you can adapt it to the other Twiceborns.

One thing to note is Hacker's last effect. It says that both players look at each other hands, sent a monster from them to the GY, then Special Summon the monster their opponent banished by this effect. I suppose you have to correct this.

Quote

Twiceborn Dragon

Cannot attack. While you control this card in Defense Position, you opponent cannot attack "Twiceborn" monsters you control, except this one.

Yep, as crude as it sounds, the "This card" part can be omitted as far as I know. It needs to be face-up to have an effect, so "face-up" Defense Position" is redundant, although Konami is using again the face-up for certain stuff, in case some effect that change battle position are chained to the first effect, but I don't think that's needed here since we're talking about a continuous effect.

Quote

Twiceborn Necromancy

You can only activate this card's effect if you control a Normal Summoned monster. You can pay 500 LP; Normal Summon 1 "Twiceborn" monster from your GY. You can only use this effect of "Twiceborn Necromancy" X per turn.

Your wording might be okay, but I feel it's arguable to think you can simply pay 500 LP and from that point Normal Summon as you please. This wording makes it clear you have to pay 500 LP each time you Normal Summon. Also, the last limitation was only optional in case you wanna add it. I don't think "Instead of your hand is needed, you can simply say from where you're going to Normal Summon.

Quote

Twicereborn

Target 1 "Twiceborn" monster in your GY; Special Summon it. During your Main Phase, except the turn this card was sent to the GY: You can banish this card from your GY; send 1 "Twiceborn" monster you control to the GY.

Again, stuff in italic is optional, I'm more or less basing that part on Galaxy Cyclone as for meta reference.

It'd be cool if you added Level 4 or less mobs or more ways to Special Summon these guys in the future. Stuff like Double Summon just won't be enough, nut you might have cards in consideration that I'm not taking into account .

[morrisoni4]

@Rayfield Lumina Thanks for the feedback. I realize, upon further inspection, that everything you've said is basically right. With "Necromancy", I was trying to figure out the wording so that it would use up your Normal Summon for the turn, instead of granting an extra. As for "Hacker", that was the amalgam of 2 different effects I had in mind, I just forgot to change the last part. Thanks for pointing that out. As far as making them easier to Summon, I may just make them Level 4s instead. I'm not sure.

[Pommelo]

9 minutes ago, morrisoni4 said:

@Rayfield Lumina Thanks for the feedback. I realize, upon further inspection, that everything you've said is basically right. With "Necromancy", I was trying to figure out the wording so that it would use up your Normal Summon for the turn, instead of granting an extra. As for "Hacker", that was the amalgam of 2 different effects I had in mind, I just forgot to change the last part. Thanks for pointing that out. As far as making them easier to Summon, I may just make them Level 4s instead. I'm not sure.

You're welcome  , and well, it's up to you, but leaving all of them at 6 is quite dangerous. There's something I just noticed, though. Dragon says 3000/0. Was this intentional? Since it's a defensive monster, I suppose you meant 0/3000.

[morrisoni4]

Oh, goodness, yes. That was a mistake. I'll go fix that. I also implemented your other changes, and made them Level 4s. I may create some higher Level monsters, or maybe a Rank 4 Xyz, to finish it out.

[Pommelo]

12 minutes ago, morrisoni4 said:

Oh, goodness, yes. That was a mistake. I'll go fix that. I also implemented your other changes, and made them Level 4s. I may create some higher Level monsters, or maybe a Rank 4 Xyz, to finish it out.

Cool, thanks for hearing me out... but, ummm... another detail. Now that you changed the mobs to Level 4, you have to adjust their ATK/DEF. I mean, Level 4 with 2500 ATK or 3000 DEF.

[morrisoni4]

2 minutes ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

Cool, thanks for hearing me out... but, ummm... another detail. Now that you changed the mobs to Level 4, you have to adjust their ATK/DEF. I mean, Level 4 with 2500 ATK or 3000 DEF.

Oh, true. Rule of 2000. Didn't think of that. One moment please, while I adjust.

 

[Horu]

Rayfield, my Blast Soldier is a Lv4 3000 ATK monster. But I say the drawbacks of it more than make up for that extra 1000 ATK. But I balance my cards to a point total so if it falls anywhere in range, it's fair game. But yeah, normally, I'd follow the 2k rule as well.

 

With my balancing trick mentioned and out of the way, on to some good ole fashioned CnC.

 

Honestly, not much to say here. I like the cards.  Mage gives 500 Atk, Knight gives a double attack, Hacker works for dropping stuff in the grave I guess and Dragon is a shield. Love the monsters.

[morrisoni4]

@Horu Ishayuki Yeah, there are times the rule can be broken, but that wasn't the intent. I had them at a higher Level earlier, but Levelled them down so they would be easier to Summon. They don't really have enough drawbacks to justify stats that high at Level 4, so I scaled back the stats a bit. Thanks though. I try to make things useable, but not overpowered.

[Pommelo]

2 minutes ago, Horu Ishayuki said:

Rayfield, my Blast Soldier is a Lv4 3000 ATK monster. But I say the drawbacks of it more than make up for that extra 1000 ATK. But I balance my cards to a point total so if it falls anywhere in range, it's fair game. But yeah, normally, I'd follow the 2k rule as well.

Well, you'd have to state which are the drawbacks of Blast Soldier, 'cause 3000 ATK is obscene, lol.

Kaiba: I Tribute 2 monsters and summon BEWD!

Horu: I summon Blast Soldier while Sogen is on the field.

Kaiba: FU...

 

[Horu]

2 minutes ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

Well, you'd have to state which are the drawbacks of Blast Soldier, 'cause 3000 ATK is obscene, lol.

Kaiba: I Tribute 2 monsters and summon BEWD!

Horu: I summon Blast Soldier while Sogen is on the field.

Kaiba: FU...

 

Blast Soldier is a Pyro monster so Sogen doesn't help. It can't attack a monster with 3000 or less ATK/DEF. Also, a direct attack makes it self-destruct and deal 6000 damage to its controller. So yeah, Horu would be summoning a 3000 ATK monster that is essentially a wall or a bomb. Kaiba kills it and uses Ring of Defense, Horu takes 3000 damage. That's a big drawback. That's why I asked how that could work in an Avian deck.

[morrisoni4]

11 minutes ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

Well, you'd have to state which are the drawbacks of Blast Soldier, 'cause 3000 ATK is obscene, lol.

Kaiba: I Tribute 2 monsters and summon BEWD!

Horu: I summon Blast Soldier while Sogen is on the field.

Kaiba: FU...

Yeah, I was just about to post something similar. Not sure it's that OP.

[Horu]

9 minutes ago, morrisoni4 said:

@Horu Ishayuki Yeah, there are times the rule can be broken, but that wasn't the intent. I had them at a higher Level earlier, but Levelled them down so they would be easier to Summon. They don't really have enough drawbacks to justify stats that high at Level 4, so I scaled back the stats a bit. Thanks though. I try to make things useable, but not overpowered.

I love decks that recycle themselves though. On a playablity scale, if this archetype got big enough to actually build a deck, I see it holding well against a Red-Eyes Deck.

[Pommelo]

I just assumed it was Warrior. I agree with Morrisoni, though, it's not that op, but a good wall. @morrisoni4, it could attack, but the monster it has to attack must have 3001 ATK or higher, lol, so Blast needs to increase it's atk in order to kill anithing, I guess. I agree with the changes you made to your monsters, I've seen 1900 ATK mobs with pretty positive effects, so that's the limit for me. Ib, Chosen by the World Chalice is 0/2100, but a vanila monster... if you can call that cute girl a monster. Anyway, I suppose 2000 DEF if quite fine.

[Horu]

Just now, morrisoni4 said:

Actually, looking at that card, I'm not sure it would be able to attack, if I interpret his first effect right. And if he attacks directly, he takes 6k damage and loses the monster. And when it's destroyed in battle, both players take 3k damage. So, I don't know. It might not be that OP.

Yeah. You got the effects right. It's a kamikaze card. So even timing when to use it (as a direct attack with it could result in a draw or loss).

[morrisoni4]

@Rayfield Lumina Right, that's what I meant. In that particular scenario, it couldn't attack.

@Horu Ishayuki I thought so. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I plan on expanding it a little - either adding higher Level monsters, or some Extra Deck monsters, maybe both. I see it working pretty well with some existing cards like "Foolish Burial" and "Monster Reborn Reborn", because their effects don't require them to be Summoned by the other monsters - just from the GY. "Wasteland" would be good too.

[Horu]

Wasteland or any other Zombie booster would go well. But this archetype does have one big weakness that is nagging at me. And that weakness is a pretty old one.

Gravekeepers and Necrovalley.

Maybe invest in a few banish techs to work around that.

[morrisoni4]

9 minutes ago, Horu Ishayuki said:

Wasteland or any other Zombie booster would go well. But this archetype does have one big weakness that is nagging at me. And that weakness is a pretty old one.

Gravekeepers and Necrovalley.

Maybe invest in a few banish techs to work around that.

That makes sense, but "Necrovalley" prevents banishing from the GY... Hmm... Wait... Liiiiight Buuuulb!

 

"Twiceborn Chaos"

Continuous Trap

Any time a monster you control would be sent to the GY, it is banished instead. Any time you would Summon a monster from your GY, you can Summon one of your banished monsters instead. "Twiceborn" monsters that were Summoned after being banished gain their effects as if they were Summoned from the GY.

 

That way, it can be used to shut down "Necrovalley" with any deck, or power up cards like "Gren Maju Da Eiza". What do you think?

 

[Horu]

Perfect. It makes a nice emergency card to have floating in your deck.

[morrisoni4]

I just realized, the way they're worded now, they place their effects on the monsters they Summon, instead of getting them when they are Summoned. I'll go fix that.

[morrisoni4]

Okay, so I added a few  new Aces - Rank 4 Xyz Monsters. Because of their effects having typical "Twiceborn" nature, they all gain the ability to take Xyz Materials from elsewhere upon revival. They all can Special Summon each other.

 

“Twiceborn Raptor”

Rank 4/DARK/Dinosaur/Xyz/Effect/3000/3000

4 Level 4 Zombie monsters
This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. You can also Xyz Summon this card using 1 “Twiceborn” Xyz Monster you control as Xyz Material (transfer its Materials to this card). If this Xyz Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" Xyz Monster in your GY that was Xyz Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Raptor"; Special Summon that target. You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card, target 1 non-Xyz Zombie “Twiceborn” monster you control, until the End Phase, it can attack directly, but its effects are negated. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• Once per turn: you can attach 1 “Twiceborn” monster from your field or GY to this card as Xyz Material (if it is an Xyz Monster, transfer its Materials to this card.)

 

 

“Twiceborn Golem”

Rank 4/DARK/Rock/Xyz/Effect/2500/2500

3 Level 4 Zombie monsters
This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. You can also Xyz Summon this card using 1 “Twiceborn” Xyz Monster you control as Xyz Material (transfer its Materials to this card).  If this Xyz Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" Xyz Monster in your GY that was Xyz Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Golem"; Special Summon that target. You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card, target 1 non-Xyz Zombie “Twiceborn” monster you control, it gains 1000 ATK and DEF until your opponent’s End Phase. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• Once per turn: you can attach 1 monster from your opponent’s field to this card as Xyz Material (if it is an Xyz Monster, transfer its Materials to this card.)

 

“Twiceborn Mechanica”
Rank 4/DARK/Machine/Xyz/Effect/0/0
3 Level 4 Zombie monsters
This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. You can also Xyz Summon this card using 1 “Twiceborn” Xyz Monster you control as Xyz Material (transfer its Materials to this card). If this Xyz Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" Xyz Monster in your GY that was Xyz Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Mechanica"; Special Summon that target. You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card, banish any number of “Twiceborn” monsters from your GY, this card gains 1000 ATK and DEF for each card banished by this effect. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• Once per turn: you can attach 1 Spell or Trap Card from your hand or field to this card as Xyz Material.

 

“Twiceborn Leviathan”
Rank 4/DARK/Sea Serpent/Xyz/Effect/0/0
3 Level 4 Zombie monsters
This card is treated as Zombie while in the GY or banished. You can also Xyz Summon this card using 1 “Twiceborn” Xyz Monster you control as Xyz Material (transfer its Materials to this card). If this Xyz Summoned monster is sent from the field to the GY: You can target 1 "Twiceborn" Xyz Monster in your GY that was Xyz Summoned and sent from the field to the GY, except "Twiceborn Leviathan"; Special Summon that target. You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card, this card gains ATK and DEF equal to the combined ATk and DEF of all monsters your opponent controls. If this card is Summoned from the GY, it becomes Zombie and gains the following effect.

• Once per turn: you can attach 1 card from your opponent’s GY to this card as Xyz Material.

 

And the support card:

"Twiceborn Top Recovery"

Continuous Spell

You can only activate this card's effect if you control a Normal or Xyz Summoned "Twiceborn" monster. You can pay 1500 LP; Xyz Summon 1 "Twiceborn" monster from your GY, using monsters you control as Material. You can only use this effect of "Twiceborn Top Recovery" once per turn. You cannot Special Summon monsters from the Extra Deck the turn you activate this effect.

 

[Pommelo]

Hoh, this is interesting as hell, a Xyz Twist to the original Twiceborn strategy! At first, I was thinking, woah, these effects are too rough, but that was until I noticed that Raptor needs 4 materials and Mechanica/Leviathan need 3, which balances their power quite well. Funnily enough, the one that scares me the most is Golem, being able to simply steal 1 opponent's monster to make it its new material, damn. And the bloody effect doesn't target, oh man. Also, Top Recovery is a cute spin-off of Necromancy, expensive, but deadly  .

[morrisoni4]

24 minutes ago, Rayfield Lumina said:

Hoh, this is interesting as hell, a Xyz Twist to the original Twiceborn strategy! At first, I was thinking, woah, these effects are too rough, but that was until I noticed that Raptor needs 4 materials and Mechanica/Leviathan need 3, which balances their power quite well. Funnily enough, the one that scares me the most is Golem, being able to simply steal 1 opponent's monster to make it its new material, damn. And the bloody effect doesn't target, oh man. Also, Top Recovery is a cute spin-off of Necromancy, expensive, but deadly  .

Do you think I should make "Golem" target? I guess, in hindsight, it is kind of OP for only 2 Materials. I might change it to 3.

As far as "Top Recovery", I was aiming to make it... well, not OP. Leaving it at only 500 LP cost like Necromancy seemed underwhelming, given the higher power of the monsters.

[Pommelo]

25 minutes ago, morrisoni4 said:

Do you think I should make "Golem" target? I guess, in hindsight, it is kind of OP for only 2 Materials. I might change it to 3.

As far as "Top Recovery", I was aiming to make it... well, not OP. Leaving it at only 500 LP cost like Necromancy seemed underwhelming, given the higher power of the monsters.

Mmmm... not really sure, there are effects that don't target like the shuffling to Deck that Madolches do. If it's not destruction and it doesn't target, it's almost impossible to avoid, I think that's cool, it really depends on how strong you want the effect to be. I agree with top recovery, though.

[morrisoni4]

On 3/13/2020 at 12:06 PM, Rayfield Lumina said:

I quite understand the fact that they become zombies when they're back to the field as that's the whole point of being called Twiceborn, but I wish they could be treated as Zombie-Types, even in the GY, because this not being the case will greatly limit the amount of zombie support you could have used for them, such as the classic Book of Life.

Wow, I just now saw this part of your post, and I agree completely. I just went back and added a clause to do just that, and extended it to banishment for good measure.