Hopes for the New Banlist [Nov 2018] [Also finished btw]

[Arimetal]

Forbidden:

 

• Firewall Dragon - At the top of everyone's list. I really don't need to explain it.
  
• Cannon Soldier & Toon Cannon Soldier - Card doesn't see play in anything other than burn loops. There isn't a reason to keep a card like that around.
  
• Gumblar Dragon - Handlooping has never been considered healthy and it never will be. Ok... so it isn't "Handlooping", but its ridiculously easy to pull off the Delinquent Duo on legs. 
  
• Crystron Needlefiber - Stop it, I already know people wont like this hit. I got something to say about it though. The reason why so many Link shenanigans are possible are because you have Links that work as combo extenders. Which shouldn't be a thing. Imagine a generic Synchro that summoned a tuner from deck so that you could extend into a bigger synchro. You don't even have to use it on itself. Card is ridiculous.
  
• Isolde - (see: Crystron Needlefiber)
  
• Soul Charge - This and Link Climbing cant exist in the same format, at least not right now. 
  

 

Limited:

 

• El Shaddoll Construct - This wouldn't do ANYTHING to the meta right now. It would just make the deck actually viable again. There aint anything wrong with that tbh.
  
• Rivalry of the Warlords - "Its necessary and healthy for the game to shut down any deck that plays cards other than ones of the same race!" funk off. I'm not explaining this one.
  
• Gozen Match - (see: Rivalry of the Warlords)
  
• Yata-Gurasu - With a lot of problems gone... I want to test the waters a little. It's my hypothesis this wont do sheet, and if someone finds some way to break it, then it will most likely be convoluted and wont see tournament play. I don't think it should go to 3 through. Depriving your opponent of resources is nasty, in this day of age, every card counts.
  
• Chaos Emperor Dragon - It got an errata that essentially makes it a normal monster if you activated any other effect this turn. BLS is a much better choice than it imo. I say you can test the water with this too tbh.
  

 

Semi-Limited:

 

• Morphing Jar - I think its a little too slow to be doing much, but I think putting it at 2 is safer than anything else right now tbh. Putting this up does increase consistency in Empty Jar and why would you want that as top deck?
  
• Ash Blossom - I think OCG had the right idea. This card is just a little too good. Having to always worry and try to bait this out is tiresome.
  
• Qliphort Scout - (see: El Shaddoll Construct)
  
• Infernity Archfiend - (see: El Shaddoll Construct)
  
• Infernity Barrier (see: El Shaddoll Construct)
  

 

Unlimited:

 

• Samsara Lotus - This is the stupidest thing ever. This thing is an ftk? Sure...
  
• A - Assault Core - I was tilted HARD when this happened. ABC was just a good rogue, but then they went and did this. Like funk offffff. The only Firewall banned card I actually care about. It didn't do sheet.
  
• Necroface - So tell me youngin… ARE YOU AFRAID OF INFERNAL TEMPEST? No? Then why the funk is this on the list? (Especially with Grinder at 1, what is you doing?)
  
• Kozmo Dark Destroyer - (see: El Shaddoll Construct)
  

 

 

 

Feel free to argue against any point on this list.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Adding archfiends doesn't do anything, the deck is made better by adding launchers.

 

Also both dragonfly and hornet could harmlessly be at 3.

[Arimetal]

Adding archfiends doesn't do anything, the deck is made better by adding launchers.

 

Also both dragonfly and hornet could harmlessly be at 3.

 

Somehow forgot about Launchers. And yes you are right, Inzektors don't need to be their either.

[~British Soul~]

As much as I would like to see Firewall banned, I know it won't go... yet for legal reasons (relating to Shueisha), and it's a thing that people either aren't aware of or forget it's a thing.

[Dova]

The Samsara Lotus FTK isn't even that hard.

Bomber Dragon in EMZ, Cerberus and Catbat co-linked in MMZ. End Phase, Summon Samsara to Catbat Zone, Bomber destroys it, and repeat.


If Firewall is banned, we should get A back; that's why A got in the first place anyway.

[Tinkerer]

- Bans Needlefiber

- Needlefiber isn't in tcg

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Needle and Isolde are good for the game if you kill the long link enablers

 

Also lol, keeping Goblin banned

[Darj]

Disagree on banning Needlefiber. It helps a lot of decks, and Needlefiber + Snow Rabbit is such a tasty opening board, even for casual decks that cannot really follow up into anything sturdier. I understand the concern about Link laddering, especially with Tuners like Glow-Up, O-Lion and Steam the Cloak, but I would rather keep Needlefiber around.

On the edge about Isolde. On one hand, I have found it highly advantageous, and it does for Warriors what Needlefiber does for any deck with Tuners. On the other hand, keep in mind that it comes with the "cost" of Equips that can end up as dead draws, or kill her effect if you draw them.

 

Agreed with the rest unless I'm missing critical stuff.

 

I have been pondering on hits for Dangers! IDK you but I find them as a really easy way to get monsters on board and/or dig through your deck. I guess the main issue is that their on-hand effects have no hard OPT whatsoever. Even if Firewall Dragon of FTK strategies are gone, I suspect they would still remain effective at Extra Linking, but IDK.

 

Also, maybe limit or ban Armageddon Knight? AFAIK it can still lead to big boards just from summoning it. Or is more of a case of Isolde taking advantage of it?

[Arimetal]

The Samsara Lotus FTK isn't even that hard.

 

Bomber Dragon in EMZ, Cerberus and Catbat co-linked in MMZ. End Phase, Summon Samsara to Catbat Zone, Bomber destroys it, and repeat.

 

 

If Firewall is banned, we should get A back; that's why A got in the first place anyway.

 

I don't see this board being all that easy tbh. Do you maybe have a small combo that could do it given the list?

 

 

- Bans Needlefiber

- Needlefiber isn't in tcg

 

 

I know it seems silly and I was tempted to ban summon sorc as well, except with Isolde and needlefiber hit I didn't think it needed to be. I understand the issue but like, giving such generic access to your deck just leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.

 

 

Needle and Isolde are good for the game if you kill the long link enablers

 

Also lol, keeping Goblin banned

 

funk goblin. Also I don't agree with your statement tbh. Can you specify why you think it would be good?

 

 

Disagree on banning Needlefiber. It helps a lot of decks, and Needlefiber + Snow Rabbit is such a tasty opening board, even for casual decks that cannot really follow up into anything sturdier. I understand the concern about Link laddering, especially with Tuners like Glow-Up, O-Lion and Steam the Cloak, but I would rather keep Needlefiber around.

On the edge about Isolde. On one hand, I have found it highly advantageous, and it does for Warriors what Needlefiber does for any deck with Tuners. On the other hand, keep in mind that it comes with the "cost" of Equips that can end up as dead draws, or kill her effect if you draw them.

 

Agreed with the rest unless I'm missing critical stuff.

 

I have been pondering on hits for Dangers! IDK you but I find them as a really easy way to get monsters on board and/or dig through your deck. I guess the main issue is that their on-hand effects have no hard OPT whatsoever. Even if Firewall Dragon of FTK strategies are gone, I suspect they would still remain effective at Extra Linking, but IDK.

 

Also, maybe limit or ban Armageddon Knight? AFAIK it can still lead to big boards just from summoning it. Or is more of a case of Isolde taking advantage of it?

 

I do understand that it helps casual decks make better plays. But it isn't played exclusively in casual decks. It aids the meta in a rather large way.

People who play Isolde (from what I've seen) can and often do run 1 extra equip then they need. Equips aren't like Garnet, they have some good and useful effects. Things like Living Fossil and Moon Mirror Shield can be handy to have, even if they are mainly for Isolde.

Danger's don't have a real "hit" tbh. They all work pretty well for what they are trying to do. With them the only real thing you can do is it some of the more prevalent ones like Bunbun or Snek. Which would be sad to see happen, at least for me. I think that's why they are okay though tbh. They don't do anything by themselves, they need something else. (Until Konami gives them a Link... omg I just realized "Danger! Hidden Link!" is a valid name for a card) Until then, we can wait.

I pondered on Armageddon for a second there. I figured Isolde was the main issue tbh. Yes he can still dump mali and stuff, which I thought about putting to 2, but without Isolde... I don't know what hes trying to make.

[Darj]

I do understand that it helps casual decks make better plays. But it isn't played exclusively in casual decks. It aids the meta in a rather large way.

People who play Isolde (from what I've seen) can and often do run 1 extra equip then they need. Equips aren't like Garnet, they have some good and useful effects. Things like Living Fossil and Moon Mirror Shield can be handy to have, even if they are mainly for Isolde.

Danger's don't have a real "hit" tbh. They all work pretty well for what they are trying to do. With them the only real thing you can do is it some of the more prevalent ones like Bunbun or Snek. Which would be sad to see happen, at least for me. I think that's why they are okay though tbh. They don't do anything by themselves, they need something else. (Until Konami gives them a Link... omg I just realized "Danger! Hidden Link!" is a valid name for a card) Until then, we can wait.

I pondered on Armageddon for a second there. I figured Isolde was the main issue tbh. Yes he can still dump mali and stuff, which I thought about putting to 2, but without Isolde... I don't know what hes trying to make.

 

Personally I would hit Armageddon and Malicious before Isolde, but maybe it's Isolde who should take the hit, IDK. Also I keep in mind that Isolde can grab scary Warriors like BLS and whatnot.

 

Right, there are good Equips around. I go for Mirror Shield, Fossil, D.D.R. and Overdone Burial, but 2 of those are slightly disadvantageous due to the discard cost.

Speakin of Equips, would you do something about Phoenix Blade?

 

Wouldn't "Danger! Missing Link!" be a more appropriate name? xD

[Arimetal]

Personally I would hit Armageddon and Malicious before Isolde, but maybe it's Isolde who should take the hit, IDK. Also I keep in mind that Isolde can grab scary Warriors like BLS and whatnot.

 

Right, there are good Equips around. I go for Mirror Shield, Fossil, D.D.R. and Overdone Burial, but 2 of those are slightly disadvantageous due to the discard cost.

Speakin of Equips, would you do something about Phoenix Blade?

 

Wouldn't "Danger! Missing Link!" be a more appropriate name? xD

 

Yeah that's fair. Arma and Mali have potential to cause issues down the line so you might wanna hit them now... but they weren't doing anything really until Isolde popped in. Not exactly the same scenario but think Tyrant Neptune.

 

With things that love being in grave and dangers walking around, discarding isn't that bad anymore tbh. I've started playing twin twisters in some decks over heavy dust storm for that very reason.

 

Also... funk me that's what I meant. Forgot that people call it missing and not hidden.

[Darj]

Yeah that's fiar. Arma and Mali have potential to cause issues down the line so you might wanna hit them now... but they weren't doing anything really until Isolde popped in. Not exactly the same scenario but think Tyrant Neptune.

 

Well, both have been in the banlist in past times. Maybe they should just stay there xD

[jabber2033]

I feel like Engage needs a Limit or Ban.  Also Book of Moon to 3.  Otherwise I got no real issue with this list.

[Arimetal]

I feel like Engage needs a Limit or Ban.  Also Book of Moon to 3.  Otherwise I got no real issue with this list.

 

You might be right about Engage. I would just hate to hit pure Skystrikers though tbqh. Maybe ban hornets?

 

Also I thought about book, I just feel like a lot of decks need links to work and having a card that can throw off materials like that seems pretty iffy imo.

[Sleepy]

On top of the list:
 

Tribe Infecting Virus, nobody would argue against if you added it.

 

Since even with lack of a hard OPT clause, Morphing Jar is not causing any issues, before upping empty jar's consistency, I'd like to see some testing the waters with Cyber Jar and maybe even Fiber Jar.

 

some (if not all) the Dragon Rulers to 1 would be neat unless I'm missing something critical, but I think the game could handle them.

 

The Inzektors probably could get released.

 

Ban Hunter and unlimit everything else in Wind-Ups, 

Monkeyboard post MR4 shouldn't be as problematic (especially with no Joker around).

I kind of want Shurit at 1 again for Nekroz. The Djinn lock was the worst part of that deck and it's no longer a thing sooo..

Tyrant Neptune and Supreme King Dragon Starving Venom should come off the list in exchange for that Lyrilusc Fusion that caused it.

What was it that caused Argent Chaos Force to get banned? That SNumber 0? Could they exchange places in the banlist (0/3 to 3/0)?

I've been wondering this for a while but, is Mirage of Nightmare still ban-worthy? MST gives you a techy +2 in slow motion. That doesn't really sound all that broken anymore.

Pot of Avarice to 1 please?

Time Seal too. I don't remember why it was banned anymore. I guess it is always better than Drop Off and even Drastic Drop Off, but I mean, come on....

I just erased like 5 lines of text here.. In short, most of the semi-limited list should go to 3, with maybe Terraforming going to 1 or staying at 2. IDK about Scapegoats.

 

[The Highlander]

The toxic trash (Firewall Dragon and Topologic Gumblar Dragon) is unbanable at this point (which is why I feel the game is "unplayable" until Vrains ends and they get banned).

Isolde and Crystron Needlefiber are fine, as long as Summon Sorceress and the above are banned (which is anothre reason why this game is currently "unplayable").

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Armaknight was a good call-out. It has aged ridiculously well, and is one of, if not the, best combo starters in the game right now.

 

Aside from things that form loops, I honestly am against hitting the bridging monsters like needlefiber (which isn't even a tcg card) and Isolde, as removing these plays just cuts out functionality of a lot of decks.

 

I don't want to see decks be less good, I want to see decks be more fair.

 

Isolde may be incredibly strong (potentially too strong with upcoming samurai link, but I'm not going to get into that right now) but I don't believe that it itself harms gameplay in the same manner that gumblar does.

 

 

Also I've been against banning things on principle for years, and honestly principle is the only reason to ban Isolde at this exact time. You might notice that there seems to be a contradiction in my reasoning, in that I want armaknight banned, while defending needlefiber, Isolde, and firewall on multiple occasions in the past. This is due to the fact that armaknight resides in the main deck. This creates a significant difference between it and the others. If you deck is properly constructed, you should theoretically always have access to needlefiber, Isolde, and firewall, whereas armaknight requires considerably higher amounts of RNG. Even if your deck doesn't need armaknight to function, the difference in quality of a hand containing it and a hand not containing it is far greater than I am comfortable with.

[The Highlander]

Armaknight was a good call-out. It has aged ridiculously well, and is one of, if not the, best combo starters in the game right now.

 

Aside from things that form loops, I honestly am against hitting the bridging monsters like needlefiber (which isn't even a tcg card) and Isolde, as removing these plays just cuts out functionality of a lot of decks.

 

I don't want to see decks be less good, I want to see decks be more fair.

 

Isolde may be incredibly strong (potentially too strong with upcoming samurai link, but I'm not going to get into that right now) but I don't believe that it itself harms gameplay in the same manner that gumblar does.

 

 

Also I've been against banning things on principle for years, and honestly principle is the only reason to ban Isolde at this exact time. You might notice that there seems to be a contradiction in my reasoning, in that I want armaknight banned, while defending needlefiber, Isolde, and firewall on multiple occasions in the past. This is due to the fact that armaknight resides in the main deck. This creates a significant difference between it and the others. If you deck is properly constructed, you should theoretically always have access to needlefiber, Isolde, and firewall, whereas armaknight requires considerably higher amounts of RNG. Even if your deck doesn't need armaknight to function, the difference in quality of a hand containing it and a hand not containing it is far greater than I am comfortable with.

Isolde and Needlefiber would be fine if the cancerous cards like Firewall Dragon and Topologic Gumblar Dragon would be torn apart (as they deserve).

Armageddon Knight is powerful, especially given that it can hit Malicious, however Vision Hero Vion does the exact same thing, if you hit Arma people just use Vyon instead, the problem card is Malicious and given that we have extenders like Needlefiber, Isolde, Summon Sorceress, as well as toxic abominations like Firewall Dragon and Topologic Gumblar, which is straight upgrades of cards that are banned for a good reason (while also being in the Extra Deck and thus basicly 100% accessible) , the ability to lead into these extenders to enable mentioned nonsense means they are able to snowball too much on one mill and a body.

 

If that nonsense, that has no business being in the game to begin with, would not exist Isolde and Needlefiber would be quite healthy for the game, especially given that for some Synchro decks Needlefiber is a necessary "evil".

[Arimetal]

My reasoning was badly worded before on why I think Isolde and Needlefiber should go. I want to restate my issue. Link monsters dont lose card advantage. By this I mean that a Link 2 monster is still like having a card economy of 2 so that you can continue your plays. With that in mind, cards like Isole and Needlefiber are essentially free advantage by giving you an extra monster to mess with. They are free extenders that give you access to the main deck. Summon Sorc falls under this too, and would eventually need to be hit. Thats why I dont think they are healthy.

[The Highlander]

My reasoning was badly worded before on why I think Isolde and Needlefiber should go. I want to restate my issue. Link monsters dont lose card advantage. By this I mean that a Link 2 monster is still like having a card economy of 2 so that you can continue your plays. With that in mind, cards like Isole and Needlefiber are essentially free advantage by giving you an extra monster to mess with. They are free extenders that give you access to the main deck. Summon Sorc falls under this too, and would eventually need to be hit. Thats why I dont think they are healthy.

You are completely right about that.

However Links that create basicly unlimited advantage (or access, which comes down to the same) [Firewall] or turn unwanted cards/blank cards (Phoenix Blade) into multiple +-0 cards that slow the opponent and remove their starting hand (which is more valuable than a hand after finishing one's combos) [Gumblar] are even worse.

Given that 1-2 pluses are normal these days these Link 2s are fine, as long as there are no other monsters you can ladder into, with them, that can do the same.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Isolde and Needlefiber would be fine if the cancerous cards like Firewall Dragon and Topologic Gumblar Dragon would be torn apart (as they deserve).

Armageddon Knight is powerful, especially given that it can hit Malicious, however Vision Hero Vion does the exact same thing, if you hit Arma people just use Vyon instead, the problem card is Malicious and given that we have extenders like Needlefiber, Isolde, Summon Sorceress, as well as toxic abominations like Firewall Dragon and Topologic Gumblar, which is straight upgrades of cards that are banned for a good reason (while also being in the Extra Deck and thus basicly 100% accessible) , the ability to lead into these extenders to enable mentioned nonsense means they are able to snowball too much on one mill and a body.

 

If that nonsense, that has no business being in the game to begin with, would not exist Isolde and Needlefiber would be quite healthy for the game, especially given that for some Synchro decks Needlefiber is a necessary "evil".

vyon can't mill destrudo, which is incredibly relevant when needlefiber hits tcg. Additionally, vyon is HOPT. I'm not saying vyon isn't good, because it absolutely is, but it is hardly comparable to armaknight. Even beyond destrudo, the list of powerful targets armaknight has is incredible. Malicious is bonkers strong, but banning it doesn't make armaknight fair.

My reasoning was badly worded before on why I think Isolde and Needlefiber should go. I want to restate my issue. Link monsters dont lose card advantage. By this I mean that a Link 2 monster is still like having a card economy of 2 so that you can continue your plays. With that in mind, cards like Isole and Needlefiber are essentially free advantage by giving you an extra monster to mess with. They are free extenders that give you access to the main deck. Summon Sorc falls under this too, and would eventually need to be hit. Thats why I dont think they are healthy.

okay so I agree that summon sorc is a problem, but I feel such a philosophy is fallacious. Almost all good cards create advantage for free. That's how the game works. Saying a card should be banned because it creates a free bit of advantage while laddering rejects a core part of the game that far predates link monsters. It comes back to my Central point about disliking bans based on something being good, as at the end of the day, people want to use good cards. Cards like these were not mistakes, they were introduced incredibly early in the mechanic, and demonstrate the way Konami intended for the mechanic to be utilized from the start. If such cards end up creating a significant unbalance in the metagame, or create too numerous of scenarios in which quality of gameplay is lost, then it is worth looking into a ban, but in my opinion neither of these is the case for needlefiber (which, once again, isn't even in tcg yet) or Isolde, nor firewall for those still upset about it.

 

Goblin was banned because it contributed to an unbalance in the metagame, and though it is still argued whether or not it was the correct hit, the ban absolutely accomplished its intended goal.

[VCR_CAT]

first off, remember that there will always be a meta game. Never make his based on the idea of "Yeah but the meta uses this". There's nothing you can hit that will eliminate the existence of meta decks. There will always be decks that are just inherently better than the others, and if your reasoning boils down to "But I just don't like THESE meta decks", then make sure you're backing up that reason with a proper argument or else it's just coming down to personal taste rather than what's going to be good for a lot of people in the game.

 

 

That said, I think there needs to be some clearing up about Links and a lot of lists I see re: hitting Links, specifically cards like Isolde and Needlefiber. If we reduce the game to a state where Link Monsters are, at best -1 plays or even +0 plays, then the actual gameplay is going to become incredibly stagnant and sloggy immediately.

 

There are very few Link Monsters that can actually stand on their own in a field, and none of them are in the lower-card-requirement ranges. Monsters like Borreload and Saryuja require, in total, four cards to be involved one way or another. That's almost your entire hand for one monster! And this is just talking about the Link Monsters themselves; a lot of decks still want to do other plays involving Synchros, Fusions, Xyz, and Pendulum cards. Those decks are still fun to play and there's nothing wrong with that, but if we hit the Link combos too hard and suddenly those plays take a larger percentage of the hand, then those decks that want to do other things might as well not exist because there's going to be next to nothing for them to work with.

 

Whether or not Master Rule 4 and Link Monsters are good for the game is a different conversation, and regardless of what conclusion that conversation comes to it doesn't change that these rules and monsters are what the game is right now. If you want to make the most of the gamestate as it is, eliminating advantageous link combos entirely is going to do nothing but hurt the game for everyone.

[Mr. Best Male 2008]

ur list is garbo how come I cant dislike posts on this site

 

only people who are baddie at the game want firewall banned. hes a good lad that makes a boring mechanic fun

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

ur list is garbo how come I cant dislike posts on this site

 

only people who are baddie at the game want firewall banned. hes a good lad that makes a boring mechanic fun

This post is gonna age like fine wine when the amazing TCG bans it

[The Highlander]

This post is gonna age like fine wine when the amazing TCG bans it

More like a rotten tomato.

And the TCG banning it would stop 1/3 of the degeneracy in this game.