Firewall Dragon

[mido9]

 

is totally balanced and fair and so on and does not need to be banned. It is usable in normal non-FTK scenarios, needs(or, should) need some basic investment to play, and all of its FTKs can be solved by banning a bunch of trash cards that nobody's ever used outside of FTKs ever like cannon soldier or etc or (previously?) some other deck that can OTK/boardwipe/etc with many cards to spare anyway(ie spyral/infernity).

 

It is legitimately, a fine card, and its FTKs have better fixes.

[Proto]

I mean its non-FTK uses are making gigantic extra link knightmare boards thatre arguably worse to play against and all of its power severely limits the card design of the future because if it makes a firewall loop you might need to deal with it.

 

Any card that encourages infinite loops that are generic should straight up not be in the game.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

My guess is it gets an errata in the 20th Anniversary pack to be OPT

[mido9]

I mean its non-FTK uses are making gigantic extra link knightmare boards thatre arguably worse to play against and all of its power severely limits the card design of the future because if it makes a firewall loop you might need to deal with it.

 

Any card that encourages infinite loops that are generic should straight up not be in the game.

Knightmare extra link isn't a thing mostly with goblin/etc gone, and its infinite loops are sorta pointless since they aren't like other loops FTKs where you can just use the infinite monsters you have to go face for 8000 or xyz summon ten strong monsters or etc, they're just a silly thing.

[The Highlander]

Well there was a time I actually tried to argue (at the very least deluded myself) that Spellbook of Judgement would be perfectly fair ... this is kind of the exact same.

This card is a "100%" consistent Spell version of Ultimate Offering that does not include a cost and trades it being a Special Summon, rather than a Normal Summon for getting out lv 5+ monsters without tributes.

Just think about it, why are Goukis able to cycle with their floating, why does Goblin Zombie, alongside Mezuki create 7 Link materials ?

This card violates the nature of searches and turns most possible searching cycles into direct field tutoring.

... That should speak for itself, if you think this card is fine I expect you to start arguing Snatch Steal, Sixth Sense, etc should be back as well, in a way you are right, why even limit or ban anything ?

The FTKs will stop ... nah, however that is not the entire reason it should be banned or errata'd, if Cannon Soldier etc is gone people turn to cards like Shadow Priestess of Ohm, then the Darkworld Firewall FTK still works and if that gets banned people will move on to the next FTK you can go for with Firewall Dragon.

This card is actually the perfect example for why Once per turn restrictions are needed for balancing, this is the perfect example how to not design a card.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Knightmare extra link isn't a thing mostly with goblin/etc gone, and its infinite loops are sorta pointless since they aren't like other loops FTKs where you can just use the infinite monsters you have to go face for 8000 or xyz summon ten strong monsters or etc, they're just a silly thing.

I want to know how you look at this and goblin and decide, ya, goblin is the problem

[Sleepy]

The "bunch of trash cards" are not excused from their lack of usability outside of FTK attempts due to lack of an OPT clause, but that also doesn't mean Firewall Dragon isn't also going that route. Just because a card breathes life into some competitive plays in a less problematic manner, it doesn't mean the numerous problematic issues are suddenly fine. Any kid from back in the day arguing for their favorite banned cards to be unbanned because the way they used it with friends was not as abusive as the card's maximum potential has never been a very big argument.

 

If Firewall's offences weren't so common, it'd be easier to get off its case but somebody finds a way to exploit at least once a format ever since it was created.

[vla1ne]

A hard OPT, or 2TP would make this card perfectly fine. if they can't ban it, Then they can at least make it not absolutely busted. I'm not a fan of erratas, but when a card this busted is the flagship, and you refuse to ban it, something's gotta give.

[King K. Azo]

Firewall Dragon is a perfect example of why the phrase "Once per turn" needs to be slapped on every wall and desk at Konami.

[Draconus297]

My guess is it gets an errata in the 20th Anniversary pack to be OPT

Can't legally be errata'd. Anime writer contract. Can't be banned or messed with until after VRAINS ends. Same with Gumblar and any other Code Talker, Borrel, or Topologic support, and that's assuming Shueshua (sp?) only protects Playmaker and Revolver.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Can't legally be errata'd. Anime writer contract. Can't be banned or messed with until after VRAINS ends. Same with Gumblar and any other Code Talker, Borrel, or Topologic support, and that's assuming Shueshua (sp?) only protects Playmaker and Revolver.

Shueshua won't protect Firewall

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I want to know how you look at this and goblin and decide, ya, goblin is the problem

because this is a subjectively more interesting card. It recovers resources, it provides removal, it can do a lot of stuff a lot of decks like doing.

 

Goblin was blatantly made to create extra links. Not to say I even think extra links are a problem, but if it's something that the list is supposed to solve, goblin is the more surgical choice.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

because this is a subjectively more interesting card. It recovers resources, it provides removal, it can do a lot of stuff a lot of decks like doing.

 

Goblin was blatantly made to create extra links. Not to say I even think extra links are a problem, but if it's something that the list is supposed to solve, goblin is the more surgical choice.

Like...globin is used in OCG guardragon to create the extra normal summon to summon LaDD

 

It does have other uses...nobody is gonna extra link w/o firewall IMO

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Like...globin is used in OCG guardragon to create the extra normal summon to summon LaDD

man I actually like it in this deck but this sounds pretty weak to me.

 

Allow me to reiterate that I don't believe extra link to be a problematic mechanic, merely a mechanic used by a problematic deck. A deck that I believe to no longer be problematic, as a result of goblin being banned. It wouldn't have been my personal pick, but I am much more on board with it than firewall.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

man I actually like it in this deck but this sounds pretty weak to me.

 

Allow me to reiterate that I don't believe extra link to be a problematic mechanic, merely a mechanic used by a problematic deck. A deck that I believe to no longer be problematic, as a result of goblin being banned. It wouldn't have been my personal pick, but I am much more on board with it than firewall.

It's not though, just link away the REDMD and one of your left over cards. Or if you don't wanna do that you can use a second normal.

 

I think TCG made the wrong hit, maybe OCG will follow suit, but summon sorc being a highly generic deck toolbox seemed like a bigger issue than a -1 double summon.

 

And if you HAVE to ban a knightmare, wouldn't the one that starts the combo and summons Iblee, ie mermaid, be better?

 

I dunno, I don't think we're really disagreeing here

[Black D'Sceptyr]

Feel this is more of a chicken-and-egg situation, in which the struggle is between whether it should be A) engines that constantly put out materials for abuse for Tributing or damage (Substitoad,, or B) the monsters that it ends up benefitting.

 

Konami seems to have already had a pattern of hitting the former before (Mind Master, Substitoad, even Level Eater) and now have switched to the latter as of recent. across both TCG AND OCG (e.g. Mass Driver, Tyrant Neptune, and now Cannon Soldier), but the issue is that if the mass summoning doesn't go towards eterno-burn strategies like Amaryllis or Cannon Soldier, it goes towards Extra Links and free-stun bosses that go towards the same purpose of crippling Deck diversity.

 

It also tends to make them especially vulnerable to the most basic of tech, which is why Ash Blossom and the Trickstars are eating up so much market share (well, was, for the former one, until the recent Tourneys). 

 

I say that to say this-Firewall's less of an issue than how easy it is to funnel out a player's hand: Danger! is getting big too because of how spammy the'yre become, especially in tandem with other spammy DARK monsters (coughMaliciouscough). So I find myself more of a Category B-in terms of banning. Long story short, I actually agree with you, but the Firewall Dragon is still going down a dark path unless it gets errataed.

[Proto]

there is always going to be a deck that can spam monsters enough to make a firewall extra link and simply nerfing every deck around the card instead of the card itself is actually kind of insane, even if you ban amazoness infernity is still gonna have enough resources to make a massive gumblar or knightmare board and then what. like what are you gonna nerf every deck that firewall allows to be abused instead of the card itself? that's ludicrous and straight puts the priority of the animoo over the players of these niche decks who might have to deal with a launcher at 0 or some sheet just because of one card existing

 

just ban it mate

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

there is always going to be a deck that can spam monsters enough to make a firewall extra link and simply nerfing every deck around the card instead of the card itself is actually kind of insane, even if you ban amazoness infernity is still gonna have enough resources to make a massive gumblar or knightmare board and then what. like what are you gonna nerf every deck that firewall allows to be abused instead of the card itself? that's ludicrous and straight puts the priority of the animoo over the players of these niche decks who might have to deal with a launcher at 0 or some sheet just because of one card existing

 

just ban it mate

Ban, or if that's not Kosher, errata it to only spam cyberse monster or be OPT

[The Highlander]

Ban, or if that's not Kosher, errata it to only spam cyberse monster or be OPT

Twice per turn would be fine as well, just not an unlimited amount of times.

 

is totally balanced and fair and so on and does not need to be banned. [..]

Exactly ... like Snatch Steal and Graceful Charity

 

Though to be fair double delinquent duo on legs is a card as well ... for whatever reason ...

[mido9]

there is always going to be a deck that can spam monsters enough to make a firewall extra link and simply nerfing every deck around the card instead of the card itself is actually kind of insane, even if you ban amazoness infernity is still gonna have enough resources to make a massive gumblar or knightmare board and then what. like what are you gonna nerf every deck that firewall allows to be abused instead of the card itself? that's ludicrous and straight puts the priority of the animoo over the players of these niche decks who might have to deal with a launcher at 0 or some sheet just because of one card existing

 

just ban it mate

I mean, to use the specific example, I would argue that infernity are bad for the game anyway just because they've been used in FTKs or OTKs forever and infernity archfiend has been used to generate almost +10s per turn, and they also have only been meta when they're able to do that or to throw down a board of 3 void ogre + infernity barrier or some other nonsense, and it's not ok.

 

Also, firewall is not always the most conducive card to extra linking and the number one extra link deck, gouki, would still be summoning 10+ monsters in a turn and filling a board with link monsters anyway.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I mean, to use the specific example, I would argue that infernity are bad for the game anyway just because they've been used in FTKs or OTKs forever and infernity archfiend has been used to generate almost +10s per turn, and they also have only been meta when they're able to do that or to throw down a board of 3 void ogre + infernity barrier or some other nonsense, and it's not ok.

 

Also, firewall is not always the most conducive card to extra linking and the number one extra link deck, gouki, would still be summoning 10+ monsters in a turn and filling a board with link monsters anyway.

Counterpoint, OCG infernity have had everything at full power for the last 4 years, 3 arch, 3 barrier, the only dumb deck they had was Herofernity where you could summon Dark Law backed by 2 barrier.

 

It took firechad dragon here to turn them into an FTK deck

 

Coincidentally, a number of other decks became FTK decks when Firechad Dragon was printed...how odd that coincidence works like that /s  

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Firewall does a lot of cool things for a lot of decks, whereas Cannon Soldier and its clones are never relevant except in FTKs.