Political Violence

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Man says he's Republican, and he wasn't registered to vote because he's a felon.

 

Committing a crime doesn't make you not have political beliefs.

Read it again

[Proto]

Read it again

Sure. He got his voter rights restored, that doesn't mean that he was automatically re-registered. He was in prison during the last presidential election and got out on 2017, a large amount of people don't care about the midterms but it's being pushed by a lot of sites and DT himself has been advocating more aggressively for it, so it's not hard to assume that he decided to re-register late. There's a lot of pushing for it so I suspect this confrontation, given that it took place right outside of a polling place was about him trying to register and him being refused due to it being past the due date (only reason why I could imagine him making a big deal about him being a "Republican") and things escalated from there.

 

That's my theory at least. Either way, man's saying he's a Republican and he was recently quelled from the registry because he's a felon and had no reason to re-register until the midterms.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So he's politically motivated enough to go harass people at polls, but no politically motivated enough to register in over a year. Do you want me to pull up his old voter registration too buddy?

[Proto]

So he's politically motivated enough to go harass people at polls, but no politically motivated enough to register in over a year. Do you want me to pull up his old voter registration too buddy?

I mean hell, I'm politically motivated enough to debate ya'll here and I just registered this year. Fetch it if you got it. 

[vla1ne]

...Ok, starting slowly.

If your line of ratonilizing the presence of a group of people who have threatened (publicly) the safety of innocents, and have (there's plenty of proud boys on camera who have beaten people up if you bother to look) started fights is because they "respect personal space", then this argument is moot.

I can respect your personal space and still put a bullet between your eyes. That's a piss poor argument and you know it.

"Racist or not" those proud boys won't give a funk about your personal space because you're a black man in America. That's factually true. But as long as you respect them for their views and tolerate their intolerance, maybe they'll kill you last.

Self defense, and initiating violence are two different things. In this case, the proud boys were the victims.

 there's plenty of antifa members on camera also beating up and harassing innocent people, damaging property, and causing civil unrest (blocking roads in the most busy section of the city, with no legal permissions at all). my statement was that in this case, the proud boys did nothing wrong. I'm allied with neither side, but one group is clearly the bigger piece of sheet in this instance.

 

No you can't. If i throw a rock, is that respecting personal space? No. Neither is a bullet. that said, proud boys are known for popping sheet, but they don't really attack people who haven't swung first.

 

You are so wrong i can't even figure out how you came to that conclusion.

My Dude, there are Black, White, Asian, Latino, and all manner of other races in the proud boys. but just watch this to get my point.

I can link you to quite a few black proud boys. I may not support the group, but they aren't a criminal organization like antifa. Antifa attacks everybody, while proud boys swing on only those who swing first. (they welcome it in fact) The main people the proud boys are funking up are the antifa members, because antifa always swings first. 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-university-virginia-richard-spencer-banned-20181026-story.html

 

White supremacist Richard Spencer is banned from University of Virginia for his role in Unite the Right, and his wife is divorcing him after years of domestic abuse, including choking her and breaking her jaw while she was four months pregnant with their daughter.

 

And this is someone who "cares about people"?

The man decided to debate a black supremacist, and peacefully did so. He's already got more peaceful resolutions under his belt than antifa, and he's somehow banned from more places as well. He's banned for his views, while antifa is allowed to roam the campus with baseball bats attacking anybody who might be a nazi. I expect nothing less from universities at this point.

 

Never said he was a good person. I said he cares more about people than antifa does.Even with the domestic violence charge he STILL cares more about people than antifa does. One innocent person harmed by him, vs dozens on the antifa side. my point stands. like him or not, he's not leading in body count, and he's fully capapble of peaceful debate (and has done so numerous times), he's a sheet person, who's still leagues ahead of antifa on the morality scale.

 

 

Saying "people wear Obama attire now" when the shock value and media anger regarding him has died down incredibly hard is an incredibly bad argument. Give the Maga cap 8-10 years and see how many people actually care about it. It's like someone wearing a Reagan/Bush shirt or some sheet. Like their policies were traumatic to a lot of people, but it was a long enough time ago, and media hasn't covered it soon enough that it doesn't feel like a real, active threat. And give me the police stats because you guys are pretty bad at the whole sources thing.

 

They respect personal space because they have the luxury of being able to have a viewpoint that isn't out of line with the ones that this country was founded upon. If you believe that you can "just debate" white nationalists then you have no idea about how the concept of racism works. It's not something logical that someone can just think about and not be racist anymore in most cases, it doesn't make sense, it's like trying to curb someone else from a religion. And even if racism was something comparable to say, an economic policy and these people ran off of statistics and fact instead of presuppositions and anecdote. There is a lot of proof that the debate format doesn't actually "change minds" at all. I don't do this for you or Melkor to stop being conservative, I do this mostly out of entertainment and so kids or young adults looking at this website don't immediately see your view as "normal" or something that's informed in the slightest.

 

When someone gets their entire money stream by being a racist piece of garbage, even if they're convinced to not be a racist piece of garbage I don't think that they can just walk away and admit "hey I lost I'm a liberal now". No! That's straight up shooting themselves in the foot in terms of power, donors and everything. Since these people are by the books capitalistic and since they've developed their whole platform and success off of being racist, they literally have no incentive to change their ways. And in order to maintain that success they'll do whatever it takes to maintain the rage that surrounds them.

 

Whenever you see someone who caters to a mostly conservative audience like Ben Shapiro stating something that is even remotely critical "If your immediate thoughts about the bombs is 'FALSE FLAG' you're delusional" and you look at the comments you see a massive amount of anger and backlash. The same with Jordan Peterson when he mentioned that the most powerful move for the Republican Congress to do as a result of the Kavanaugh controversy would be to just elect another candidate. Their comments got absolutely flooded with comments about how upset their fanbase is. Meanwhile, Candace Owens reaffirming that there was "No way that the bomber was a conservative." even after being proven directly wrong STILL remains to be one of her most popular tweets. People don't care about facts, they care about getting their assumptions justified by popular figures regardless of how many numbers get fudged or how tinted the lenses are.

 

The Proud Boys already have their "foots in the door" ideologically, heavy players in the Republican scene have already showed sympathy to them. https://thinkprogress.org/proud-boys-miami-nancy-pelosi-nelson-diaz-florida-republicans-0fab787e0ddc/ Nelson Dias is the chairman of the the republican party in Miami and he was the one who organized this event. Gavin, who is the leader of the Proud Boys literally created Vice. He is VERY good at marketing and seeming "cool" to hide his white supremacist views. If left to themselves do you really think its farfetched to say that they would be able to influence politicians if gone unchecked given that he already has? Would Nelson Dias even know they were white supremacists if not for the brawl that drew it wide open?

 

EDIT: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/413467-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-yelled-anti-semitic-slur-before

 

 

 

But hey both sides! Nazis didn't do anything wrong right? Totally nonviolent, that group. funk Antifa right bros?

 

 

 

Keep debating about Antifa when a white supremacist shot two black grandparents in a church, this week, saw a white guy, said "Whites don't kill whites" and went on with this day.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/us/louisville-kroger-shooting.html

 

Keep debating about Antifa when your president's reaction to someone opening fire on a synagogue for entirely anti-semetic reasons with an assault rifle and injuring three fully armed policemen is that "If they had more protection the results would've been better."

 

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/10/27/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-suspect-identified/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/10/27/us/ap-us-shooting-synagogue-the-latest.html

 

Keep debating about some fucks in masks who haven't killed anyone when you have Trump-loving maniacs literally mailing bombs to political dissenders.

 

And all of the above? Same week.

 

I'm done debating ya'll. Warn me if you want. I've got nothing more to say.

 

It’s a bad argument because you didn’t even read it. I said people were wearing it since he went into office. Not after he left (they do, but that wasn’t my statement) but as he was running. I saw people wearing it proudly everywhere in the news and in real life. Not just at rallies, but at home as well. People were selling shirts on the streets, in the stores, it was wall to wall coverage of people who proudly wore “change" shirts and not one person being kicked out of a store or beaten by an angry protest mob. Go back and read, your post here applies to nothing I said.

 

Yeah, freedom of speech, and the balls to defend it. Oh? You can’t just debate white nationalists? Then what about the black supremacist that debated him? No violence, all discussion. That statement was dead before you ever posted it.  I agree, you can’t immediately change people’s minds completely on most things like this, but you can make them rethink it, chipping away one step at a time, and there’s actual groups that do that, and guess what, they do it through debate. Comparing it to religion is just beautiful, because atheists often start out on one end of the theist spectrum, and become atheists over time as they debate the ideas. You are proving my point quite well in fact. You can’t beat it into them. That only entrenches them deeper; you use reason, logic, and human compassion. I’m center actually. Not conservative. Ask melkor or anybody else on the site, I debate as much with the left as with the right, the left just has things that I disagree with right now.

 

Yeah they can. Important people on all sides have changed their minds on many a topic. This would be no different. It may take a while, but it could easily happen. …Who exactly are “these people”? What you’re currently attempting is called a strawman argument. You’re attributing whatever you like to “these people” and attempting to use those attributes to form an argument. Stop it. It’s not helping your argument.

 

There may have be backlash, but the right’s open to actual arguments. There are disagreements, and there is backlash, but there are points to be made, and there are debates to be held. many people on the right  and center debate each other. People have opposing views, and the debate among them is how they work those views out. For example, the backlash against Peterson was for the same reasons I posted in the kananaugh thread, which, need I remind you, nobody had even one solid argument against. Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land, and the spirit of the nation. With no evidence, we do not throw people under the bus. therefore we do not remove a candidate on empty claims. Peterson apparently forgot that, and got BTFO’d like everybody else. The opposition to the bomber being republican is due to the timing, the placement, and the schematics. Nobody has yet to explain why a trump supporter would send out 11+ bombs, arriving within days of each other all by courier, mere weeks before the election when it could hurt the republicans the absolute most (he’s stupid is the only argument I’ve heard, and that just doesn’t really do it for me). I don’t much care about his views though. Sure he can be a trump supporter. Doesn’t mean he speaks for me, other trump supporters, or trump himself.

 

I mean, there are black, Asian, jewish, Spanish, and all other manner of people in the proud boys, all across the globe, if the proud boys are racist, then they’re really, really shitty racists.

 

He’s also extremely anti trump, and used twitter and facebook to express his hatred of trump and his hatred of jews. (only gab got blamed though, which is strange to me) So I don’t see what you’re getting at here. He was a horrible person? Fine, I agree. And yeah, funk antifa AND that guy. I don’t have to exclude one to say funk the other.

 

Yes, I shall keep debating antifa, because nothing about debating antifa prevents me from calling out white supremacists. Both are shitty kinds of people, and I don’t mind calling them shitty people.

 

They’ve hospitalized hundreds, the only reason there’s no deaths is because their weak little soy bodies can’t do enough damage.

 

Also, are you serious? The link you use states in no uncertain terms, that the people involved in the vigil to mourn the dead, turned the formerly apolitical, respectful vigil into a political attack on trump well before he even said anything bad about them. In fact, he said nothing bad at all relating to them. He didn’t say funk the victims, he didn’t say all jews must die. he was 100% courteous, respectful, and honorable. You posted a flat out example of trump derangement syndrome, thinking it’s an argument against trump? Not only that, but you take one single line out of an entire timeline of trump being a proper leader, and attempt to make it sound sinister. Where’s you quote of all the times in the very same argument you linked where trump blatantly condemned this, and all other political and non-political violence. Where’s your quotes of him calling this event, and events like it acts of pure evil. You might have missed them all in your dive for the absolute worst possible thing you could fine, which is hilariously enough, you being fake outraged at trump calling for better protection of religious establishments. Nothing about this shooting was political, until the people who hate trump decided it was. Everybody agrees it was a horrible act, everybody agrees that the criminal is a sheet person, yet the second you get to trump proposing a future defense against events like this, you decide that’s somehow wrong? That’s cool.

 

Yep, same week, two weeks before elections, such surprises. Much coincidence. A trump supporter and an anti-trumpet (also anti Semite) decide to commit crimes, the trumpet sends dud bombs towards people they believe to be anti-trump, the anti-semetic-never-trumpet decides to shoot up a synagogue that they might believe to believe to be pro trump. The trumpet has zero victims, the media blames trump, the anti-trumpet has multiple fatalities, the media blames trump. Perfect  logic right there.

 

but by all means. by your own words, we're done here.

[Dad]

As long as Antifa is beating the funk out of racists then I have no issue with them. No, I won't change my mind. Not if they kill a racist either. That's just one less racist in the world.

 

And if you can sympathize with the racists, you can get your ass beat too. I don't care what color you are. No tolerance for intolerance.

 

You wanted extreme? Here you go. I will NOT change my mind on that.

[vla1ne]

As long as Antifa is beating the funk out of racists then I have no issue with them. No, I won't change my mind. Not if they kill a racist either. That's just one less racist in the world.

 

And if you can sympathize with the racists, you can get your ass beat too. I don't care what color you are. No tolerance for intolerance.

 

You wanted extreme? Here you go. I will NOT change my mind on that.

Then we disagree fundamentally. 

[Dad]

Then we disagree fundamentally.

We don't just disagree. You're willing to put up with it. I'm not.

[vla1ne]

Incorrect. I stand against it as well. I simply don't need violence to do so. (if swung on first, i will definitely fight back, but till then, words are words). More racists have been converted through compassion and discourse than through violence. So i take that route first, as it's the most effective. In fact, just three days ago, i had a discussion about it with two ethno-nationalists online. Both thought they held the same correct views, but upon having a proper (long as hell) discussion, i managed to bring one round to my side, to reach an agreement on the topic (The other was a lost cause, but that's life).  That would not happen if i just went in screaming "you're both racists and need to die!". You can only change minds through nuance and debate. Some won't change, but far more will.

[Proto]

@@vla1ne

 

Okay, so that goes back to my argument that cellphones weren't a thing at that time, do you really positively think that everyone that's confronted at a restaurant files a police report or even a case about it? Because if you're talking specifically in that timeframe I can guarantee you that there are unreported incidents of people donning Obama supporting apparel in red states being harassed due to how large the smear campaign was about him and his credibility for President. (Including our current one) with the racist assertion that he wasn't even born here.

 

 

 

You can debate white nationalists but as I stated and you conveniently ignored, they are LITERALLY PAID to have their opinions so believing that someone will cut off their main income stream just because they're spreading wrongthink is preposterous. If you think that Richard Spencer would do anything besides absolutely evaporate economically the second that he was cut off from his white nationalist ties and all his little racist followers realized that he wasn't their profit then you are mistaken. Spencer is essentially a politician and being a flake or not playing to your audience is a death sentence. 

 

Alright, give me some sources here then. Because I know sure as hell that Spencer and that black supremacist you were talking about earlier hasn't shifted their views on thinking that their race is superior.

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1055135806648537089 https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1048320826376740865 peep the comments. All their other tweets have far better ratios but the blowback from these statements have been absolutely massive. If you couldn't determine who I was talking about via context clues then that's your problem.

 

 

 

You think the Nazis didn't have Jewish people amongst their ranks? Or that in the Civil War the South didn't accept Black People to fight for the Confederacy? Just because you accept people who disown their race enough to pair with people who have done a whole heapload of things to suggest that they are, indeed racist doesn't mean that they're not racist. This is the "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" argument to the fullest.

 

 

 

My reply was towards Melkor's statement that Nazis are equivalent to Antifa, call me when Antifa murders people. You can't go both sides when one of them maybe gave people brain damage and inconvenience people and the other ones have literally been going on killing sprees due to hate crimes. I'm not attacking Trump here, I'm attacking Melkor and your previous assertions that they are in any way comparable on scale. You're comparing B.B. Guns to AR-15s. Also, speaking of Trump I do have something to argue against him now, he said that the church should've had more protection when the suspect literally gunned down three police officers himself. How is that not blaming the victims instead of seeing that "hey maybe we shouldn't give civilians access to assault weapons."

 

 

 

The media links them both back to Trump stating that the "Alt-Left" are equivalent to Nazis essence. Which is equivocating assault with murder.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yes, I say that beating a guy into unconscious with a bike lock and giving him a concussion till the police restrain you is about equal to driving a car and hitting one person, killing them. The motive was clearly there in both cases. 

 

Leftists shot a GOP HQ in Florida today, they didn't manage to kill anyone. Neither did the FL bomber. Are they both ok?

 

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/four-shots-fired-into-volusia-county-republican-headquarters-police-say/862377048

[cr47t]

...Ok, starting slowly.

 

[defends Proud Boys and Richard Spencer]

 

Why the hell are we still arguing about this post?

 

Vla1ne, I respected many things you had to say up to this, but I'm pretty sure that neither I nor anyone else here wants to put up with this. The Proud Boys have gone on record several times as being explicitly pro-genocide-against-political-dissenters (which I call politicide). We hear it in their words and, more importantly, we see it in their actions. They intiiate violence all the time with the goal of politicide, and when confronted with minor violence, they respond with calls for, if not attempts at, politicide. That's not self-defense. That's terrorism. Same applies to Spencer because he also has no qualms about violence or flat-out murder (Dylann Roof) in the name of his cause.

 

"BUT ANT1FAH LIBRULS LIBRULS OoOOooOoOOOoOOoo" is not an excuse for any of this. If left-wing violence is worthy of condemnation, it's equally so for right-wing violence. Both Antifa AND Proud Boys are violent scum and if you are willing to look past one of them for the sake of political convinience, or for owning the libs, or for whatever reason, you're shitting on the principles that this country is built on - the equal rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

 

Can't we just accept that all violence is bad, no matter who does it, and continue the conversation without sticking up for those who most engage in it?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The Proud Boys have gone on record several times as being explicitly pro-genocide-against-political-dissenters (which I call politicide).

Got a source on that? Seems like that would be illegal if it happened. You can't threaten to kill people and be protected under 1A

 

---

Here are a few Non-antifa examples

 

Thus far, in October…

 

There was an assassination attempt against President Trump:

 

October 3, 2018: Ricin and threatening letter sent to Trump This assassination attempt also targeted high-ranking Trump officials:

 

October 3, 2018: Defense Secretary James Mattis and FBI director Wray sent ricin letters. The New York Times openly fantasized about Trump’s assassination:

 

October 25, 2018: New York Times runs story fantasizing about Trump’s assassination One MSNBC commentator called for the military to remove Trump from office:

 

October 18, 2018: MSNBC guest calls on military to remove Trump There appears to have been an assassination attempt against Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) for her support of Brett Kavanaugh:

 

October 16, 2018: Person claimed ricin was in letter sent to Senator Collins home No fewer than five Republican campaign centers and a club have been vandalized: [update: six]

 

October 29, 2018:

 

[update] Four shots fired into Volusia County, FL Republican Headquarters, police say

 

October 2, 2018: Vandals Hit IL GOP Headquarters With ‘RAPE’ Graffiti

 

October 25, 2018:GOP headquarters vandalized in Iowa City, IA

 

October 23, 2018: Boulder thrown through Rep. McCarthy’s (R-CA) office window

 

October 12, 2018: GOP office vandalized in Mesa, AZ

 

October 12, 2018: Antifa Smash Windows, Deface Doors of Metropolitan Republican Club in Manhattan There have been 12 rape and death threats aimed at Republicans, their families, and supporters:

 

October 24, 2018: N.J. GOP Congressional Candidate Receives Letter Threatening His Children

 

October 19, 2018: New York Man Charged With Threatening Two Senators Over Kavanaugh Support

 

October 2, 2018: 2 hospitalized after exposure to powdery substance at Cruz’s Houston campaign office

 

October 16, 2018: DFL Employee Calls for Republicans to be Beheaded

 

October 8, 2018: Leftist Teacher Tweets: “So Who’s Gonna Take One For the Team and Kill Kavanaugh?”

 

October 15, 2018: Vermont GOP House Candidate Receives Death Threat

 

October 7, 2018: Sen. Cory Gardner claims wife received a beheading video over Kavanaugh vote.

 

October 4, 2018: Republican Senators Hit With Death Threats Amidst Kavanaugh Fight

 

October 8, 2018: Rand Paul’s Wife: I Sleep with a Loaded Gun Thanks to Leftists’ Threats after Husband Hospitalized

 

October 6, 2018: Sen. Collins Flooded with Abusive Tweets Threatening Death, Violence, and Rape

 

October 17, 2018: TN Restaurant owner’s life threatened for renting space to GOP’s Marsha Blackburn

 

October 11, 2018: Anti-Trump Protester Threatens to Rape Conservative Reporter There have been nine assaults and attempted assaults against Republicans

 

October 18, 2018: Dem operative for Soros-funded group arrested for ‘battery’ against Nevada GOP candidate’s campaign manager

 

October 6, 2018: Kavanaugh Protesters Accost Elderly Trump Supporter

 

October 5, 2018: Protesters Chase Graham To His Car 

 

October 2, 2018: GOP Congressman Andy Harris (R-MD) assaulted by protesters

 

October 10, 2018: Susan Rice’s Republican Son Assaulted at Pro-Kavanaugh Event

 

October 16, 2018: Left-wing comedian gets physical with Trump supporter at Hooters

 

October 16, 2018: Republican candidate Shane Mekeland punched in Minnesota restaurant

 

October 16, 2018: Republican State Rep. Sarah Anderson assaulted in Minnesota

 

October 13, 2018: VIDEO: Republican Justin Fareed’s Campaign Canvasser Allegedly Chased, Assaulted

 

October 28, 2018: Left-wing mobs crash moment of silence for Jewish Massacre 

 

October 20, 2018: Watch–Angry Leftists Harass McConnell, Wife at Restaurant: ‘Why Don’t You Get Out of Here?’

 

October 17, 2018: Portland Antifa tells 9/11 NYPD widow “YOUR HUSBAND SHOULD FUC*ING ROT IN THE GRAVE”

 

October 17, 2018: Professor calls for harassing Republicans at restaurants, sticking ‘fingers in their salads’

 

October 8, 2018: Left-Wing Terrorist Group Antifa Takes Over Portland, assaults Old Man trying to cross the street

 

October 6, 2018: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) harassed at airport

 

October 1, 2018: Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Hounded At Airport By Anti-Kavanaugh Activists

 

 

 

October 21, 2018: Obama’s former deputy secretary of state, Philippe Reines says harassment of McConnell and his wife “is fine”

 

October 9, 2018: Hillary Clinton opposes “civility” with Republicans.

 

October 10, 2018: Eric Holder Tells Dem Activists: ‘When They Go Low, We Kick ‘Em’ CNN called for more harassment of Republicans:

 

October 10, 2018: CNN says mobs have “constitutional right” to chase Republicans out of restaurants Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) said Republicans deserved to have their Manhattan club vandalized:

 

October 16, 2018: Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) Blames GOP for Antifa Attack on Manhattan Club A left-wing news outlet blamed Republican Rep. Steve Scalise for nearly being murdered:

 

October 8, 2018: Raw Story’s Editor: Steve Scalise ‘Accomplice’ to His Attempted Murder A Trump supporter’s truck was lit on fire:

 

October 11, 2018: A truck with ‘Trump 2020’ bumper stickers was left at a bar overnight. Someone set it on fire.

[Proto]

Yes, I say that beating a guy into unconscious with a bike lock and giving him a concussion till the police restrain you is about equal to driving a car and hitting one person, killing them. The motive was clearly there in both cases. 

 

Leftists shot a GOP HQ in Florida today, they didn't manage to kill anyone. Neither did the FL bomber. Are they both ok?

 

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/four-shots-fired-into-volusia-county-republican-headquarters-police-say/862377048

He drove it into a crowd of people, multiple injuries, Heather was just the only one who happened to be injured hard enough to die. 

 

See here's the thing, since yesterday was con on con I'm gonna need proof that this is a liberal. Sources Melky. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. 

 

Also wooooah. That is a MASSIVE GISHGALLOP right there. Do you want me to write a whole ass dissertation about every one of these sources? 

[cr47t]

Got a source on [Proud Boys being pro-violence]? Seems like that would be illegal if it happened. You can't threaten to kill people and be protected under 1A

This entire video, from their leader himself https://twitter.com/nathanTbernard/status/1053358234667544576

 

As for your "non-Antifa examples" - give us links to the source, or at least tell us where you got this news. You can't just say "this happened and this happened and this happened and" without sources if you want us to actually believe your point.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This entire video, from their leader himself https://twitter.com/nathanTbernard/status/1053358234667544576

 

As for your "non-Antifa examples" - give us links to the source, or at least tell us where you got this news. You can't just say "this happened and this happened and this happened and" without sources if you want us to actually believe your point.

I can't tell if you're memeing me, you can click on the hyper links you know

He drove it into a crowd of people, multiple injuries, Heather was just the only one who happened to be injured hard enough to die. 

 

See here's the thing, since yesterday was con on con I'm gonna need proof that this is a liberal. Sources Melky. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. 

 

Also wooooah. That is a MASSIVE GISHGALLOP right there. Do you want me to write a whole ass dissertation about every one of these sources? 

You didn't prove sheet, he's not a republican. 

[vla1ne]

Edited to fix some quote glitches.
 

@@vla1ne

 
I'm talking In cases of reported violence (no video needed, news on tv and paper still existed back then) there are far fewer violent reports against obama supporters than trump has against his. unreported doesn't count, because in the context of evidence, if it's unreported, it essentially didn't happen. name a story of people being kicked out for wearing obama apparel when obama got in office. or a story of people being beaten up for it, or killed for it. by any and every metric, even if you removed the social media reports from the news, it's far lower than what trump supporters have dealt with.
 
 
You point here is? So what if he gets paid to be racist, you can still debate the ideas. That's all that matters. You aren't trying to beat the preacher, you're trying to persuade the followers. Whether or not he changes his own mind, you can still change the minds of those who follow him. That's the point. It doesn't have to be his mind, you can bring other, people who might follow him thinking he's right over to your side. it's been proven time and again, ideological discussion beats ideological suppression. burying ideas never kills them,
 
You're so focused on the people in the spotlight, that you forget they aren't the only people holding those ideas. i can't tell you who did or didn't change their mind, but i can guarantee you that them having a peaceful (if forceful) discussion, allowed people to see both sides of the coin, and will have driven people from both sides to the center.
 
[spoiler=I peeped them]
you're right, that sheet was funny. 

Go back and look, there's people on both sides of the fence beneath ben's comment, and I've already clearly told you the reason ben got BTFO'd.
 
 

No. this is not the "I have an -Insert race here- friend" argument. This is the "There's people of all races in this group, funking up people of all races in that group" argument. The group is rather diverse across the globe, and what they do is not predicated on race. They attack the attackers. There's nothing racist about that (again, since people keep forgetting, but i don't condone violence on any side). and if we're talking racism, why in the hell is it that the main people we see the proud boys fighting are all white (or blatantly antifa) if they hate black people so much? That comment makes no sense.
 
 
Antifa is nowhere near the level of nazi. That much we 100% agree upon. Antifa does, on the other hand, attack any people whom they believe to be nazis, or just right wing in general. they are, by all metrics, better people than the nazis were. but they remain horrible people.
 
 
 
wait what?
[spoiler=the videos]
 

 

So they call trump and spencer literally hitler/nazis, but they call the left nazis as well? The same left who call people fascists, and support attacking anybody who they decide is a nazi? and protest everything trump does by screaming nazi? and scream fascism whenever they encounter an opposing opinion?
 

 

fascism sympathizers ladies and gentlemen.

 
that's just weird.
 
 
 

Why the hell are we still arguing about this post?
 
Vla1ne, I respected many things you had to say up to this, but I'm pretty sure that neither I nor anyone else here wants to put up with this. The Proud Boys have gone on record several times as being explicitly pro-genocide-against-political-dissenters (which I call politicide). We hear it in their words and, more importantly, we see it in their actions. They intiiate violence all the time with the goal of politicide, and when confronted with minor violence, they respond with calls for, if not attempts at, politicide. That's not self-defense. That's terrorism. Same applies to Spencer because he also has no qualms about violence or flat-out murder (Dylann Roof) in the name of his cause.
 
"BUT ANT1FAH LIBRULS LIBRULS OoOOooOoOOOoOOoo" is not an excuse for any of this. If left-wing violence is worthy of condemnation, it's equally so for right-wing violence. Both Antifa AND Proud Boys are violent scum and if you are willing to look past one of them for the sake of political convinience, or for owning the libs, or for whatever reason, you're shitting on the principles that this country is built on - the equal rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
 
Can't we just accept that all violence is bad, no matter who does it, and continue the conversation without sticking up for those who most engage in it?

I gave you a full, uncut video of the founder explaining everything about the group. You give me an edited together video with angles that have been debunked multiple times (in many of those clips, it has been confirmed that the proud boys did not start those fights, they merely finished them) 
 
Please reread my comments. I don't support violence, nor do i much care for groups that do (proud boys included) but if it comes down to it, the proud boys are all about reactionary violence. they support fighting yes, but they go to the violent groups, wait till those groups get violent, and then fight back. they wait for others to start fights, it's the entirety of their strategy. Do i support it? no, but when you have one group that initiates violence, and another that only swings when you swing first (i know, they go to the people who swing first, point still stands that they only attack attackers) one group is clearly going to be the better option. if nobody's swinging, then neither will the proud boys (in the clips of your twitter montage link, the videos in question have been edited down to make it look like the proud boys started it, I've seen full videos of three of them, and heard police reports for two of them. so far as i know, they have yet to be shown as the instigators for any of them.). On the other hand, even if nobody's swinging, antifa will swing first. while i support neither, one group is clearly the worse option. 
 
Yes, violence is bad, but look at who's calling for it. read my post, then read dad, or proto's posts. there is a clear difference. i'm defending nuance and characterization, while also condemning violence. They advocate initiating violence and the suppression of opposing views, while labeling their assumed opponents whatever label allows them to condone violence against them. You can quote all the calls for violence in this thread, and under pretty much any standard, you wouldn't see my comments in the list.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Trump has radicalized more people than ISIS according to CNN

People like you, are driving people like me towards people like Bolsonaro. My biggest problem with Trump is he puts up with too much of sheet from you guys

[Proto]

 

Yes, violence is bad, but look at who's calling for it. read my post, then read dad, or proto's posts. there is a clear difference. i'm defending nuance and characterization, while also condemning violence. They advocate initiating violence and the suppression of opposing views, while labeling their assumed opponents whatever label allows them to condone violence against them. You can quote all the calls for violence in this thread, and under pretty much any standard, you wouldn't see my comments in the list.

Gettin' this out of the way, do you really funking think calling Spencer a neonazi is something that's out of the ordinary and that I'm just labeling him for bonus points? No. I'm calling him a neonazi because that is literally what not only Melkor but most center right people label him as. Additionally, Proud Boys were literally close enough to the alt-right that they were going to be at Unite the Right before they realized hey, David Duke is here, maybe that's not a good look. That combined with Gavin McInnes literally releasing a video called "10 Things I Hate About Jews" (which he later retitled) and his referring to Jada Pinkett Smith as a "monkey actress". Who the hell do they think they're fooling? You apparently.

 

I am pro-violence against people who's ONLY PLATFORM is to disenfranchise people who I am not only a part of but have historically been disenfranchised in the past by this country yes. Because I know that without violence it is very, very easy to get these views into the white house, a debate never stopped racism even in the Reagan era.

 

Skipping the Obama violence bit for time and because it's not really pertinent to the argument anymore. If you wanna talk about historical comparisons make another thread.

You point here is? So what if he gets paid to be racist, you can still debate the ideas. That's all that matters. You aren't trying to beat the preacher, you're trying to persuade the followers. Whether or not he changes his own mind, you can still change the minds of those who follow him. That's the point. It doesn't have to be his mind, you can bring other, people who might follow him thinking he's right over to your side. it's been proven time and again, ideological discussion beats ideological suppression. burying ideas never kills them,

 

You're so focused on the people in the spotlight, that you forget they aren't the only people holding those ideas. i can't tell you who did or didn't change their mind, but i can guarantee you that them having a peaceful (if forceful) discussion, allowed people to see both sides of the coin, and will have driven people from both sides to the center. 

Alright, so we're not convincing him we're convincing the ideas. Thing is, there's a such thing as a invalid idea that's been disproven over and over again. We've already had these discussions regarding race in America, we determined that segregation wasn't correct, we determined that I, as a black man am not 3-5ths of a person, we determined that racism and platforming fascists or even dignifying these ideas leads to the horrors of lynching. Why the funk are we still stuck on this? Like imagine if in math you just kept proving that 2 + 3 = 5 over and over again. And over, and over. There's a such thing as a consensus bias, someone is objectively right here.

 

People like this dissolves the conversations and distracts us from actually making things better for the community in America. If black people still have to funking get off their asses and degrade themselves enough to prove that yes, we are people and we deserve to live in America there's a funking problem. We should be talking about how to fix the violence in our communities but it's INCREDIBLY difficult to actually have these conversations when there are people who are still stupid enough to make people think "maybe slavery was a good thing". There's literally nothing positive from having these debates again, it's the same old thing that we've been having since the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. And the fact that it's even still a conversation, that people are still listening is just quite frankly a punch in the face. 

 

There's no benefit to arguing with a Richard Spencer in the same way that there's no arguing with a flat-earther. The research is already out there for free, it's in our history, we can have deradicalization programs, we can force the debunking of this into classrooms, we can do anything that isn't inadvertently platforming a racist and allowing his ideas to be spread by even speaking about him.

 

 

 

No. this is not the "I have an -Insert race here- friend" argument. This is the "There's people of all races in this group, funking up people of all races in that group" argument. The group is rather diverse across the globe, and what they do is not predicated on race. They attack the attackers. There's nothing racist about that (again, since people keep forgetting, but i don't condone violence on any side). and if we're talking racism, why in the hell is it that the main people we see the proud boys fighting are all white (or blatantly antifa) if they hate black people so much? That comment makes no sense.

 

I mean given the fact that the person reciting these phrases called a black woman a monkey actress, called Susan Rice a "dindu nuffin" literally said that white genocide is a thing and let's not stop there we've also got this treat where he reveals himself to be pretty anti-semetic.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEJlDBiHkc

 

Really picked a nice hill to die on vla1ney. Not a Nazi at all.

 

Also I called Melkor a fascist sympathizer because he called himself one, plus he just stated his main problem with Trump is that he "takes too much sheet from the media". What's your solution, allowing the government to literally censor the media but in your way? Gee, that's pretty authoritarian. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Even their GOTV is promoting violence lol

[vla1ne]

Gettin' this out of the way, do you really funking think calling Spencer a neonazi is something that's out of the ordinary and that I'm just labeling him for bonus points? No. I'm calling him a neonazi because that is literally what not only Melkor but most center right people label him as. Additionally, Proud Boys were literally close enough to the alt-right that they were going to be at Unite the Right before they realized hey, David Duke is here, maybe that's not a good look. That combined with Gavin McInnes literally releasing a video called "10 Things I Hate About Jews" (which he later retitled) and his referring to Jada Pinkett Smith as a "monkey actress". Who the hell do they think they're fooling? You apparently.

 

I am pro-violence against people who's ONLY PLATFORM is to disenfranchise people who I am not only a part of but have historically been disenfranchised in the past by this country yes. Because I know that without violence it is very, very easy to get these views into the white house, a debate never stopped racism even in the Reagan era.

 

Skipping the Obama violence bit for time and because it's not really pertinent to the argument anymore. If you wanna talk about historical comparisons make another thread.

Doesn't matter, you are calling him a nazi. He is not. He's a white nationalist (not really the best thing to call yourself, but it is nowhere near the level of nazi). ok, so winter and a bunch of other people do it. people have been wrong before. they're wrong again. The comparison is invalid for the same reason antifa, proud boys, trump, and most other other modern groups are not comparable. 

 

As for the proud boys

[spoiler=It s this simple']

 

 

 the man has gone on every record, filing lawsuits even, because nobody wants to properly label the group. He claims he isn't, his own alliances show he isn't, Yet the media claims he is. the same media that claims trump is is hitler, pepe the green frog is a white nationalist symbol, violent protesters are peaceful people, and the OK handsign is a white power symbol. so what if he called somebody a monkey. it's an insult. all insults are offensive.

 

My comment was: "They advocate initiating violence and the suppression of opposing views" My point still stands. You condone violence against people who hold views that you are against, You remain far more violent than me. You've already gone on record condoning the shutting down of conventions you disagree with, and supporting the rhetoric of "by any means neccecary". Don't backpedal now. You have directly stated you are for shutting down conventions of white nationalists, you have gone on record stating you oppose debating white nationalists. You don't get to play like my comment isn't 100% accurate in context. How often have i advocated, or condoned violence against people. I've said it repeatedly in fact; debate always trumps violence, I've condemned both sides for their violence, and i've pointed out the nuance between antifa, nazis and proud boys. Condemning all three's violence, while i point out the differing scales of violence between them. Debates open up dialogue. They help prevent violence, and they help change minds. They don't change minds over night, but they get both sides of the argument out there. I have done so in the past, and seen it done by many others. Just because it's often hard, doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

 

Alright, so we're not convincing him we're convincing the ideas. Thing is, there's a such thing as a invalid idea that's been disproven over and over again. We've already had these discussions regarding race in America, we determined that segregation wasn't correct, we determined that I, as a black man am not 3-5ths of a person, we determined that racism and platforming fascists or even dignifying these ideas leads to the horrors of lynching. Why the funk are we still stuck on this? Like imagine if in math you just kept proving that 2 + 3 = 5 over and over again. And over, and over. There's a such thing as a consensus bias, someone is objectively right here.

 

People like this dissolves the conversations and distracts us from actually making things better for the community in America. If black people still have to funking get off their asses and degrade themselves enough to prove that yes, we are people and we deserve to live in America there's a funking problem. We should be talking about how to fix the violence in our communities but it's INCREDIBLY difficult to actually have these conversations when there are people who are still stupid enough to make people think "maybe slavery was a good thing". There's literally nothing positive from having these debates again, it's the same old thing that we've been having since the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. And the fact that it's even still a conversation, that people are still listening is just quite frankly a punch in the face. 

 

There's no benefit to arguing with a Richard Spencer in the same way that there's no arguing with a flat-earther. The research is already out there for free, it's in our history, we can have deradicalization programs, we can force the debunking of this into classrooms, we can do anything that isn't inadvertently platforming a racist and allowing his ideas to be spread by even speaking about him.

 No, we're convincing the other people who hold the same ideas. Convincing the leader is a bonus, getting the opposing views onto the same stage so people can decide for themselves is the goal. and those were done through debate, not violence. we've come quite far from those days, and there's further yet to go, but that's why speech is needed.

 

Tell that to the people still shooting each other. there's peaceful provinces in the back community, even in chicago there's only a few areas of crime (high crime, but still, it's not the entirety of the community). there's people in chicago who figured this out, people who actually put effort into establishing the discussions needed to raise up young black people. people who encourage discussion and the spread of ideas, those people are the ones blessed with lower crime in their neighborhoods. discourse is what allows people to get things done. civility is how people see opposing views without closing up their shells.

 

You show people that spencer is wrong when you debate him. Same as a flat earther. You think flat earthers got to the point of being easily ridiculed because people attacked them? No, it's because people kept debating them, and destroying all their points one by one till they had nothing left to stand on. Freedom of speech is still a thing. You don't get to force people to think the way you do. Keep in mind as well, any weapon you create can be used against you. I'm sure the democrats thought creating the new majority rules law would be a good thing, till republicans took the house and senate. It'd be the same thing here. You only think the rules you want the world to abide by are good, because you never contemplate what they would do to you when turned against you. (same goes for spencer)

 

 

I mean given the fact that the person reciting these phrases called a black woman a monkey actress, called Susan Rice a "dindu nuffin" literally said that white genocide is a thing and let's not stop there we've also got this treat where he reveals himself to be pretty anti-semetic.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEJlDBiHkc

 

Really picked a nice hill to die on vla1ney. Not a Nazi at all.

 

Also I called Melkor a fascist sympathizer because he called himself one, plus he just stated his main problem with Trump is that he "takes too much sheet from the media". What's your solution, allowing the government to literally censor the media but in your way? Gee, that's pretty authoritarian.

I myself have called black people monkeys, people all across the globe have insulted other people. get over it. white genocide is not a thing, but the beleif that other races are attempting to replace whites in what are blatantly white countries (europe) is not an out of the blue idea considering how drastically the race and birth ratio has shifted as of late. susan rice is 

 

 

It's called sticking to my guns. I defend ALL sides when they're misrepresented. That includes antifa, That includes nazis. That includes winter. That includes trump. That includes you. I Don't have to agree with anything anybody says, I am only defending the right to say it, on a microphone, to any crowd of people you damn well please. Defending his comments when slandered, as you have done here, is something i extend to all sides. That said, did you even watch the video you linked? He agrees that the holocaust was terrible. He agrees that the jew have suffered because of it. He then goes on to say that the treaty of Versailles was heavily influenced by the jewish population, and likely helped lead to the tragedy of ww2, as it caused the conditions in germany that lead to Hitler rising up in the first place. Nuance. Use it. if you had, you would have realized that your video only proves my point. Not a single statement was a holocaust denial or praise for the holocaust, aside from an early joke he made about brainwashing in the media. The rest was simply him elaborating the point that atrocities happen all across history, some even larger than the holocaust. It's prudent to remember them, but it's not healthy to dwell on them, as he believes the Jewish community is doing with the holocaust. Not a single thing was "I hate jews" and even if it was, i'd still defend his right to say it (though i would condemn it). Because i don't half ass my ideals.

 

. 

If we compared views, i'd be the reporter, you'd be the angry mob. i'm looking for ways to get people to come together, you're looking for reasons to attack people you don't like agree with, even when they completely fall outside the stated attack range of your narrative. 

 

Please, give me the direct quote of winter saying he's a fascist sympathizer (hopefully time stamped before you made that comment of your own). yeah, trump does take a lot of sheet from the media, but i disagree with winter there. i think trump does a good enough job of dealing with them.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I would like to concur with Val1ne here. A Neonazi is a white  nationalist, but the reverse is not necessarily true. It's a lazy flourish that lets me type a smaller word, but it's inaccurate 

For example, most people wouldn't call the KKK "Nazis"

[Proto]

Doesn't matter, you are calling him a nazi. He is not. He's a white nationalist (not really the best thing to call yourself, but it is nowhere near the level of nazi). ok, so winter and a bunch of other people do it. people have been wrong before. they're wrong again. The comparison is invalid for the same reason antifa, proud boys, trump, and most other other modern groups are not comparable. 

 

As for the proud boys

[spoiler=It s this simple']

 

 

 the man has gone on every record, filing lawsuits even, because nobody wants to properly label the group. He claims he isn't, his own alliances show he isn't, Yet the media claims he is. the same media that claims trump is is hitler, pepe the green frog is a white nationalist symbol, violent protesters are peaceful people, and the OK handsign is a white power symbol. so what if he called somebody a monkey. it's an insult. all insults are offensive.

Seriously? The dude created Vice. He knows that broadly, broadcasting yourself as something we've literally gone to war against while claiming to be "pro-American" isn't good for business so he's trying to avoid the title while holding rather openly racist views. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Also, pray tell how white nationalists plan to actually expel every single  minority from America without resorting to violence and how I should differentiate them in the slightest? Like picture what an actual white nationalist American rule would look like, then attempt to differentiate that with what the Nazis wanted.

 

What do you expect we're just gonna borrow enough money to PAY every black, brown, yellow, jewish and red person to leave? Nah. There's no feasible price for sending citizens back to a shithole. So basically they're totalitarians that advocate for the extermination of everyone who's not white, that's Nazi sheet. No reason to play by their name games.

 

He's a white nationalist, authoritarian, antisemite. The funk else do you need a swaztika tattoo? If you're gonna play this game literally nobody besides people who rock the hammer and sickles are communists.

Gonna drop the Spencer sheet because it's falling under viewpoint arguing and that's not gonna be productive for this already wall of text discussion. I don't judge people by their skin color, gender, sex or really anything besides being disingenious or lying. Also I'm not talking about this video when I said he made a video about "10 Things I Hate About Jews". Just merely, context for you to understand the full picture, the link below shows what he said before he censored himself to "Israel" after realizing that this video might get him in some bad water

 

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/vice-co-founder-lists-the-10-things-he-hates-the-most-about-jews-1.5449718

 

 

 I defend ALL sides when they're misrepresented. That includes antifa, That includes nazis. That includes winter. That includes trump. That includes you. I Don't have to agree with anything anybody says, I am only defending the right to say it, on a microphone, to any crowd of people you damn well please. Defending his comments when slandered, as you have done here, is something i extend to all sides. That said, did you even watch the video you linked? He agrees that the holocaust was terrible. He agrees that the jew have suffered because of it. He then goes on to say that the treaty of Versailles was heavily influenced by the jewish population, and likely helped lead to the tragedy of ww2, as it caused the conditions in germany that lead to Hitler rising up in the first place. Nuance. Use it. if you had, you would have realized that your video only proves my point. Not a single statement was a holocaust denial or praise for the holocaust, aside from an early joke he made about brainwashing in the media. The rest was simply him elaborating the point that atrocities happen all across history, some even larger than the holocaust. It's prudent to remember them, but it's not healthy to dwell on them, as h

e believes the Jewish community is doing with the holocaust. Not a single thing was "I hate jews" and even if it was, i'd still defend his right to say it (though i would condemn it). Because i don't half ass my ideals.

Which is why you linked a video of Antifa by a guy who's whole video catalogue is just him provoking leftist protestors and continue to represent them solely as a violent mob when there have been far more non-violent rallies with dudes with black masks then not. Because you care so much about representing ideas fairly right? Even the most violent Antifa protest has about as many arrests as a rowdy football game (with about the same amount of violent crimes because we don't kill people). Yet, what do you choose to defend so vehemently? The racist guy because he wears a suit and he's conservative.  

 

Freedom of speech doesn't give you the freedom to not get punished for what you say and it doesn't even grant you an audience so to speak. You have your freedom to speak what you want, you don't have control over the audience, the protestors have every right to freely scream at your reporter dude yet you don't seem too inclined to dignify theirs yet when a guy comes with a suit and starts calling black people monkeys you immediately start thinking "what if there's more to this, obviously the media's crucifying him, this can't be true."

 

As listed before, he doesn't say how he hates jews in that video, he talks about it in another one that he re-titled 10 Reasons Why I Hate Israel.

 

I'm not looking for reasons to attack people, I'm stating what I already know about someone and proving that his influence is incredibly harmful for me personally and many others. I'm not labeling everyone a Nazi, I've never called you a Nazi once, I've never called Polaris a Nazi once, I didn't even call Melkor a Nazi I called him a fascist sympathizer because of the quote below. I'm just calling the white nationalist antisemetic authoritarian who believes that the holocaust is greatly exaggerated and that some "unknown forces" are controlling the media in order to make white people feel bad and go extinct.

 

 

Please, give me the direct quote of winter saying he's a fascist sympathizer (hopefully time stamped before you made that comment of your own). yeah, trump does take a lot of sheet from the media, but i disagree with winter there. i think trump does a good enough job of dealing with them.

 

Woo. He said he was joking later in that same conversation you're quoting me from but apparently that's all anyone needs to say to convince you that they're not something.

 

 

 

If we compared views, i'd be the reporter, you'd be the angry mob. i'm looking for ways to get people to come together, you're looking for reasons to attack people you don't like agree with, even when they completely fall outside the stated attack range of your narrative. 

Funny how you link a hilariously partisan man who's job appears only to aggrievate protestors in order to make this comparison. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Did Dad's reply really not tip you off? Proto...why do you keep digging yourself deeper. I'm somewhat more authoritarian than I was 4 years ago, largely due to my frustrations with gridlock, but I'm not there yet. Even the most literal reading of the status would only suggest I'm on my way there eventually

[Proto]

He dug up the quote from like two weeks ago, I gave him context.

He asked for a quote, I gave him the quote. I explained that it was a misunderstanding in the thread. He didn't read the full thread so I had to reiterate what the disagreement was. 

How is this digging myself deeper? I'm just posting the proof he's refusing to dig up himself so I'm not a liar because apparently he was just sleepin' when that comment walked. 

 

But when I keep hearing sheet about you thinking the government should be harder on media, about you having issues with Democracy, about how people would be happier with less money if they had "control over their nation". It sounds like authoritarian standpoint. Again, I'm just explaining what was explained to me so vla1ne doesn't strawman me as a SJW who calls everyone a Nazi.

 

And yes I acknowledged that you weren't all the way there yet, hence the word SYMPATHIZER.