Georgia has frozen 53K voter registrations

[vla1ne]

http://time.com/5421332/georgia-brian-kemp-secretary-of-state-53000-voters-governor/

 

well, it's definitely a problem, so feel free to discuss

 

[spoiler=My thoughts]

This is an interesting issue, The "Exact match procedure" is the largest problem here. it is far too strict on voters, and due to the stringent requirements, it somewhat defeats it's own purpose, by harming more citizens than it helps. requiring ID to vote makes sense, requiring everything you input over the years t be 100% accurate, down to a T, does not. i Personally don't believe Kemp is trying to supress the vote, and assuming his statements to be even halfway true, then he likely has the paperwork to prove it. sloppy work from a voting assistance program would definitely harm all participants involved, and holding any and all voter assistance programs to standard is the first thing necessary in order to prevent the trend from continuing.

 

 

were i in his shoes, i'd loosen up the total requirements a bit, try and create centers and alternate initiatives focused on voter registration, and file a complaint with the new Georgia project, as it appears many of the issues come from their own side of the fence.

 

 

 

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're an awful fascist Val1ne. 

 

Buried in the last para: "can still cast a provisional ballot"

 

You guys realize those are counted right?

[vla1ne]

You're an awful fascist Val1ne. 

 

Buried in the last para: "can still cast a provisional ballot"

 

You guys realize those are counted right?

I think i' pretty good at it. 

 

Yeah, i saw that. apparently they can still vote for now, but the freeze kicks in full after i think it said  23 months, so it could still be extremely bad for those caught unaware over time. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Georgia Dem gubernatorial nominee says 'blue wave' will include undocumented immigrants

 

She's doing some shady things too JS

[vla1ne]

Georgia Dem gubernatorial nominee says 'blue wave' will include undocumented immigrants

 

She's doing some shady things too JS

it's politics. i'd be far more surprised if she wasn't.

 

still feezing 50k+ accounts is definitely gonna hurt him at the polls. he'd do well to fix that problem before it burns him further.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

it's politics. i'd be far more surprised if she wasn't.

 

still feezing 50k+ accounts is definitely gonna hurt him at the polls. he'd do well to fix that problem before it burns him further.

In his defense, his opponent has a voter reg group that she touts will bring the blue wave using undocumented and documented immigrants. Some third party should look at the accounts because there might be a good reason to hold them

[vla1ne]

he'd have to prove such beforehand though. the 50K he froze, seem to have all been legitimate voters so far, and if that remains the case, then unfreezing them (or at the very least, notifying them, and getting them to update their information) is his responsibility. the blame in this doesn't fall directly on the voters.

[Proto]

You're an awful fascist Val1ne. 

 

Buried in the last para: "can still cast a provisional ballot"

 

You guys realize those are counted right?

They have to go through far more holes then the average voter still, they need to physically go or mail in their identification to the registrar office. Which'd be quite a hassle to a bunch of voters, enough to perhaps dissuade the already freakishly low amount of people who vote already I could easily see someone not wanting to deal with all of this nonsense.

 

Either way, as v1aine said these are a legitimate voterbase, and there is absolutely no evidence that they could be a part of an illegal immigrant's group I see no reason for him doing this besides improving his chances, especially given that 70% of the suppressed registrations happen to be African-American who would likely vote for the democratic candidate. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

They have to go through far more holes then the average voter still, they need to physically go or mail in their identification to the registrar office. Which'd be quite a hassle to a bunch of voters, enough to perhaps dissuade the already freakishly low amount of people who vote already I could easily see someone not wanting to deal with all of this nonsense.

 

Either way, as v1aine said these are a legitimate voterbase, and there is absolutely no evidence that they could be a part of an illegal immigrant's group I see no reason for him doing this besides improving his chances, especially given that 70% of the suppressed registrations happen to be African-American who would likely vote for the democratic candidate. 

Do you know there was a race in my home state of Virginia that was decided by a coin toss. Which in turn decided the control of the house. AA are also low propensity voters. If you really wanna hit the dem's chances you need to hit the resist people who are overwhelmingly white liberals with a useless college degree

[Proto]

Do you know there was a race in my home state of Virginia that was decided by a coin toss. Which in turn decided the control of the house. AA are also low propensity voters. If you really wanna hit the dem's chances you need to hit the resist people who are overwhelmingly white liberals with a useless college degree

Weird how you didn't address the topic whatsoever so you're just deflecting to something that doesn't matter at all. ICU.

 

Unfortunately it's harder to poll who's a "white liberal with a useless college degree" on a statewide level, so you gotta go with minorities who you mentioned yourself are "overwhelmingly Democratic".

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Weird how you didn't address the topic whatsoever so you're just deflecting to something that doesn't matter at all. ICU.

 

Unfortunately it's harder to poll who's a "white liberal with a useless college degree" on a statewide level, so you gotta go with minorities who you mentioned yourself are "overwhelmingly Democratic".

It's actually not, they tend to segregate into their little ivory towers. Take my old district VA-10 for example. 

 

Blacks are already low propensity voters, and none of this would be an issue if they could show a physical ID

Especially after the clownshow that Ca pulled with motor voters, and the dem candidate talking about wanting illegals to vote. They should be more careful. 

[Proto]

It's actually not, they tend to segregate into their little ivory towers. Take my old district VA-10 for example. 

 

Blacks are already low propensity voters, and none of this would be an issue if they could show a physical ID

Especially after the clownshow that Ca pulled with motor voters, and the dem candidate talking about wanting illegals to vote. They should be more careful. 

You're seeing this in a hilariously partisan way, so the Democrats mess up a few labels that have nothing to do with the actual options on the voting ballot. Yet the Republicans outright makes things more difficult for literally double the people and somehow this is acceptable for you?

 

Matter of fact that this focuses on "low propensity voters" makes matters worse because you're lessening the chances that people who already aren't likely to vote from voting when its likely they'll vote for the other candidate by giving them an unnecessary added step. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're seeing this in a hilariously partisan way, so the Democrats mess up a few labels that have nothing to do with the actual options on the voting ballot. Yet the Republicans outright makes things more difficult for literally double the people and somehow this is acceptable for you?

 

Matter of fact that this focuses on "low propensity voters" makes matters worse because you're lessening the chances that people who already aren't likely to vote from voting when its likely they'll vote for the other candidate by giving them an unnecessary added step. 

"A few" 

 

C'mon, they're claiming no illegals got registered, not exactly a lot of credibility, but there is a subset of people who aren't illegals and also aren't the voting population. There were states decided by far fewer than 23000 ballots

 

Because they could get a proper voter id and none of this would be an issue?  I haven't driven in 3 months, but I still carry my drivers license around cuz I look Hispanic. It costed all of one dollar for me to go get. I'm fine running a fine comb over the voter rolls if people are openly talking about and passing out fraud registrations 

[Proto]

"A few" 

 

C'mon, they're claiming no illegals got registered, not exactly a lot of credibility, but there is a subset of people who aren't illegals and also aren't the voting population. There were states decided by far fewer than 23000 ballots

 

Because they could get a proper voter id and none of this would be an issue?  I haven't driven in 3 months, but I still carry my drivers license around cuz I look Hispanic. It costed all of one dollar for me to go get. I'm fine running a fine comb over the voter rolls if people are openly talking about and passing out fraud registrations 

So you just don't believe them. And there's literally no proof that immigrants have anything to do with this voting base.

 

You're fine with it, but you're not as you described before a "low propensity voter". If someone's statistically more likely to not vote because of some reason or another why are you intentionally making it more difficult for them to vote unless your intent is to outright develop a false result. And sure, states are decided with fewer then 23000 ballots, it's worse for 53k. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If these people really want to vote, they can go get a drivers ID. If they really wanted to vote, they should have registered before and checked their registration. I check my voter registration every month, it's not hard to do

No I don't believe california. They assured me that motor voter was safe. It wasn't. They've been bending over backwards to try to make things comfy for illegals. It looks to me they're just sad they got caught 

Edit:

 

I was wrong

 

Those who rated themselves the highest likelihood of voting: 67% of whites 61% of African-Americans

20,000+ House battleground respondents from @UpshotNYT/@SienaResearch polls

[Proto]

You clearly have some cartoon villainy concept of California that I can't be assed to break right now so whatever, I'm not budging you there, I've stated my opinions on it. 

 

People shouldn't have to "really want" to vote if what you want is a true democracy.

 

You know, I wasn't registered to vote until this midterm election. You know what I did? I filled in a website that only required my social security number online, afterwards I got a ballot in the mail, I filled it out, and then I shipped it back. Never even had to leave my house, never needed to show I.D., nothing. I shouldn't have to because I have to work a full 9 to 5 on the actual day of voting, matter of fact that's why I didn't vote during the Presidential election because I thought you had to do that.

Requiring that people who got selected to be frozen to have to not only take time out of their schedule to actually go to the registrar, which is something I bet a good amount of voters (like me) don't even have to do, but they need to have an I.D. in order to get their votes counted is a clear form. This is unnecessary burdening that was created to swing the polls or exclude a certain group of people who were likely to vote against him.

[vla1ne]

You're seeing this in a hilariously partisan way, so the Democrats mess up a few labels that have nothing to do with the actual options on the voting ballot. Yet the Republicans outright makes things more difficult for literally double the people and somehow this is acceptable for you?

 

Matter of fact that this focuses on "low propensity voters" makes matters worse because you're lessening the chances that people who already aren't likely to vote from voting when its likely they'll vote for the other candidate by giving them an unnecessary added step. 

Gonna have to stop ya there for a second. Primaries exist, and not being able to get the guy you want past that, is a MASSIVE effect upon their morale in the end election. Need i remind you of a little man named Bernie Sanders, who was screwed in a similar manner? There is definitely precedent for people getting massively screwed out of the primaries in some states, so a simple switch does matter a lot in the grand scheme.

 

 

They can still vote though. the have to update their info, but it doesn't actually bar them from voting for nearly a full year from the mistake (assuming they register on time). and one of the issues listed was the new Georgia project having incredibly sloppy paperwork. notice how the article explains the majority of the issues come from that one organization not having their things in order. there is definitely fault on kemp, i still think he should loosen things up a bit, but when the majority of the issue seems to come from just one organization, the paperwork will tell you everything you need to know.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Anyone gonna mention that one organization is also linked closely to the lady running for gov?

[Proto]

Gonna have to stop ya there for a second. Primaries exist, and not being able to get the guy you want past that, is a MASSIVE effect upon their morale in the end election. Need i remind you of a little man named Bernie Sanders, who was screwed in a similar manner? There is definitely precedent for people getting massively screwed out of the primaries in some states, so a simple switch does matter a lot in the grand scheme.

 

 

They can still vote though. the have to update their info, but it doesn't actually bar them from voting for nearly a full year from the mistake (assuming they register on time). and one of the issues listed was the new Georgia project having incredibly sloppy paperwork. notice how the article explains the majority of the issues come from that one organization not having their things in order. there is definitely fault on kemp, i still think he should loosen things up a bit, but when the majority of the issue seems to come from just one organization, the paperwork will tell you everything you need to know.

The California false registrations are not in time for a primary and won't be for another 2 years, the expectation that these voters should re-register their parties within 2 years is entirely different then people in some cases needing to procure a driver's license or figure out how to make time for a registrar visit in the next month is entirely different, so that argument's just irrelevant.

 

I already responded to a majority of them just having "the ability to vote" doesn't make this right in my responses to Melkor like, twice now, so feel free to address that if you want. 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Guys, keep this discussion relevant to the 53K Georgia voters who apparently got their applications frozen, not derail it about unrelated matters.

 

(California stuff goes in that other thread.)

 

====

 

As far as my stance goes on this, if an application was denied, those who were blocked should be given immediate notice about why they were so / advisories to remedy the matter as soon as possible. Withholding the information that one character is off in their registration and not allowing the individual to fix it is unethical and does not lead to fair voting for all, which appears to be the case.

 

If some of them were illegal immigrants who should not be voting, then fine.

 

But in the case of legal immigrants / citizens (who supposedly are colored), then there should be no reason to deny their applications (or if something is wrong, again, notify the individuals immediately so the matter can be fixed). Don't conveniently hold it off until the deadline to screw over potential voters, especially if it's minor.

 

IDK what avenues are available to obtain voter registration in Georgia, but all I had to do in 2014 for midterms was just print out the forms, fill out information and mail it to the registrar (no need to wait in line).

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Guys, keep this discussion relevant to the 53K Georgia voters who apparently got their applications frozen, not derail it about unrelated matters.

 

(California stuff goes in that other thread.)

 

====

 

As far as my stance goes on this, if an application was denied, those who were blocked should be given immediate notice about why they were so / advisories to remedy the matter as soon as possible. Withholding the information that one character is off in their registration and not allowing the individual to fix it is unethical and does not lead to fair voting for all, which appears to be the case.

 

If some of them were illegal immigrants who should not be voting, then fine.

 

But in the case of legal immigrants / citizens (who supposedly are colored), then there should be no reason to deny their applications (or if something is wrong, again, notify the individuals immediately so the matter can be fixed). Don't conveniently hold it off until the deadline to screw over potential voters, especially if it's minor.

 

IDK what avenues are available to obtain voter registration in Georgia, but all I had to do in 2014 for midterms was just print out the forms, fill out information and mail it to the registrar (no need to wait in line).

They're related sakura. One party is trying hard to get fraudulent votes to swing close races 

[Proto]

They're related sakura. One party is trying hard to get fraudulent votes to swing close races 

Then why is it that 70% of the voters being suppressed are African-Americans? If you wanna check for fraudulent votes in then surely you would select a group or province with far more of a chance of being undocumented or immigrants. Why pick them if this is a countermeasure?

[vla1ne]

The California false registrations are not in time for a primary and won't be for another 2 years, the expectation that these voters should re-register their parties within 2 years is entirely different then people in some cases needing to procure a driver's license or figure out how to make time for a registrar visit in the next month is entirely different, so that argument's just irrelevant.

 

I already responded to a majority of them just having "the ability to vote" doesn't make this right in my responses to Melkor like, twice now, so feel free to address that if you want. 

Best to leave that in the other thread for now anyways. it'd be far too confusing to deal with it in parallel discussion.

 

The ability to vote doesn't make this right. I agree, but it is a legitimate mistake, and there is no sole reason that the number is so high in the first place. The problem is easily repaired by properly refiling the paperwork as well.

Not having ID is a problem any way you look at it, and voting booths requesting photo ID isn't so drastic of a move that you can call it suppression. That's the same as expecting people to not take care of their affairs because they aren't smart enough to realize legal photo ID simply makes anything government related life faster and easier.

 

The mistake is bad, but the blame is spread surprisingly thin.

 

Anyone gonna mention that one organization is also linked closely to the lady running for gov?

Not just yet. it's a point, but it's not completely needed at the moment, and it won't do anything for he argument yet. At least nothing that can't be done with regular points.

[Proto]

Best to leave that in the other thread for now anyways. it'd be far too confusing to deal with it in parallel discussion.

 

The ability to vote doesn't make this right. I agree, but it is a legitimate mistake, and there is no sole reason that the number is so high in the first place. The problem is easily repaired by properly refiling the paperwork as well.

Not having ID is a problem any way you look at it, and voting booths requesting photo ID isn't so drastic of a move that you can call it suppression. That's the same as expecting people to not take care of their affairs because they aren't smart enough to realize legal photo ID simply makes anything government related life faster and easier.

 

The mistake is bad, but the blame is spread surprisingly thin.

If someone needs to actually set time away to go to a voting booth, procure an ID and give that ID to a person for verification instead of just being able to mail it in when everyone else is able to just mail it in regardless of I.D. or not that's clearly biasing one voter group before another and that's suppressing the other's likelihood of voting. 

[vla1ne]

If someone needs to actually set time away to go to a voting booth, procure an ID and give that ID to a person for verification instead of just being able to mail it in when everyone else is able to just mail it in regardless of I.D. or not that's clearly biasing one voter group before another and that's suppressing the other's likelihood of voting. 

Well what's stopping the other from doing so? Learning the ropes once will let you make the process easily. in fact, the breaker of the story was teaching people just that, when she realized she had made an error, which she can then fix within 30 days. Getting the Photo I.D. right the first time ensures you have everything you need so long as you keep the address updated. Way i see it, this is simply making sure no rigging can happen, in an election where one party has already stated their desire to get their hands on more ballots by any means necessary.

 

I'm willing to call it dirty politics, I'm not giving strict rulings a pass on the matter, but there is nothing actually stopping people from doing what they need to do. They have a month to get their affairs in order, and they have had multiple months to find time to set aside for voting.