"Stephen Miller is an immigration hypocrite"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I never said I was, I just don't have this pretty crippling skin color insecurity that a lot of people in this thread are pushing

 

Trump's approval with Hispanics hit 40%, Trump's approval with AA voters done by a democrat firm hit 25% double what it was this time last year. You can keep race baiting and trotting out your ivory tower white liberals, but people ain't buying it

[Dad]

He's also as disliked as Nixon was before he left office. So what is your point? You haven't given me anything but arbitrary numbers that flux every few months.

 

I can do it too.

 

Minorities and people of color don't work out in White America. It's that simple. Legal or illegal.

 

You'd be fine, I'm not so fine with it. What I'm meaning is....

 

The posts are leaning more towards a kind of side-discussion and I'd like some more stuff linking it to the main topic if you could. How it relates directly to it and such.

Maybe beef up the posts from here on a little bit.

You need to buckle down if you're gonna speak up in here. You're basically whispering right now. You want more sources linking back to the OP or do you want some kind of "op only discussion"? Both of them are whatever just say more.

 

It's a discussion about aligning with white supremacy. I don't think it's too separate from what I was going for with this thread, so I'd be fine if Winter and Dad wish to continue that line of the discussion, because it overlaps with why David Glosser spoke out against Stephen Miller.

 

 Nice.

 

I appreciate this, Giga. I don't think that should change my response too much, but it does help so we're all coming at this from the same understanding.

 

 

With how difficult it can be for legally migrate here, I would think that resolving concerns with current policies should be a top priority. What is the benefit of restricting how many legal immigrants are even allowed to acquire green cards or become citizens, especially based on who has used Obamacare or other welfare programs? It's just imposing restrictions for its own sake, and since it is widely seen as targeting legal immigrants, it doesn't seem like he cares about whether someone immigrated legally or illegally, but that they immigrated at all.

 

I brought up Hitler because I thought you were speaking of Jews immigrating in a broader sense, rather than Miller's family specifically. I apologize for misunderstanding.

 

Once again, I'm wary of specifically singling out Muslims and drawing a contrast between them and Jews.

 

What possible discrimination do Christians need protection from that requires the task force? In his formal announcement of the task force, Jeff Sessions typically favors Christians, and claims "I believe this unease is one reason that [Trump] was elected. In substance, he said he respected people of faith and he promised to protect them in the free exercise of their faith. He declared we would say “Merry Christmas” again."

 

Claiming that we could say "Merry Christmas" hinges on the idea that we were somehow being prevented from doing that. He's pretending that there's some war on Christianity, and using this task force to "protect" them. It's not that Christians "just happen" to be the majority of the population that will be protected by this task force. It's the only religion that Jeff Sessions has any inclination to protect.

Tl;dr

 

It is all related back to the OP because whether or not the GOP and Democrats want to admit it, this charade was never about legal immigration. It's always been a party play to move votes in favor of white majorities.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

You need to buckle down if you're gonna speak up in here. You're basically whispering right now. You want more sources linking back to the OP or do you want some kind of "op only discussion"? Both of them are whatever just say more.

Real talk I want people to stop being little shits and jabbing at each other instead of actually talking about and discussing the topic. I just wanted to give people the benefit of the doubt and present a chance to do that on their own instead of demanding it.

 

Which your post is much more in line with that so no problems there.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

He's also as disliked as Nixon was before he left office. So what is your point? You haven't given me anything but arbitrary numbers that flux every few months.

 

I can do it too.

 

Minorities and people of color don't work out in White America. It's that simple. Legal or illegal.

 

 

You need to buckle down if you're gonna speak up in here. You're basically whispering right now. You want more sources linking back to the OP or do you want some kind of "op only discussion"? Both of them are whatever just say more.

 

 

Tl;dr

 

It is all related back to the OP because whether or not the GOP and Democrats want to admit it, this charade was never about legal immigration. It's always been a party play to move votes in favor of white majorities.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

 

Only 52% of the country disproved of Nixon? Maybe he should have just hunkered down

 

I'm living quite well actually, I agree with the conservative principles that most conservative whites push. I'm not really afraid of that changing, if you are, well there are options you can take

 

---

 

I hope to god that the white majority in this country doesn't go away, they've done good by me, and I'm much more confident in their stewardship over America than I am of the whiny jabroniy subculture some minorities have jumped on. If that means banning any more of my race from coming over here, so be it.

 

Then again, my race is effectively dead thanks to the very people Roxas and Miller's uncle want to bring over to live next door to me, so I suppose it is a moot pt

[Dad]

Wait wait. I thought you lived I the ghetto. Or am i quoting someone else?

 

Also it's fine that you vote rich. Just stop trying to claim some moral high ground that doesn't exist. You can attribute it to whatever you like, but this two party system doesn't give a sheet about you. Only the money youve inherited.

 

Real talk I want people to stop being little shits and jabbing at each other instead of actually talking about and discussing the topic. I just wanted to give people the benefit of the doubt and present a chance to do that on their own instead of demanding it.

 

Which your post is much more in line with that so no problems there.

Okay i feel you. I just felt you were a little too softspoken about it. But i appreciate the clarity.

[Phantom Roxas]

Then again, my race is effectively dead thanks to the very people Roxas and Miller's uncle want to bring over to live next door to me, so I suppose it is a moot pt

 

No one is saying that they want to bring people to live next door to you.

 

Tl;dr

 

It is all related back to the OP because whether or not the GOP and Democrats want to admit it, this charade was never about legal immigration. It's always been a party play to move votes in favor of white majorities.

 

Right, it's about maintaining a white majority, and treating any non-white ethnic group as a "threat" to that majority.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Wait wait. I thought you lived I the ghetto. Or am i quoting someone else?

 

Also it's fine that you vote rich. Just stop trying to claim some moral high ground that doesn't exist. You can attribute it to whatever you like, but this two party system doesn't give a sheet about you. Only the money youve inherited.

 

 

Okay i feel you. I just felt you were a little too softspoken about it. But i appreciate the clarity.

I had to in college, it was the street right outside pretty inside the city in Nashville. Don't live in TN anymore due to grad school.

 

They blow the total worth of the money I inherited on dinner parties every other day. They don't care about me at all, but they tend to share the same values I do, and that's all that matter

[mido9]

 With how difficult it can be for legally migrate here, I would think that resolving concerns with current policies should be a top priority. What is the benefit of restricting how many legal immigrants are even allowed to acquire green cards or become citizens, especially based on who has used Obamacare or other welfare programs? It's just imposing restrictions for its own sake, and since it is widely seen as targeting legal immigrants, it doesn't seem like he cares about whether someone immigrated legally or illegally, but that they immigrated at all.

 

Once again, I'm wary of specifically singling out Muslims and drawing a contrast between them and Jews.

 

What possible discrimination do Christians need protection from that requires the task force? In his formal announcement of the task force, Jeff Sessions typically favors Christians, and claims "I believe this unease is one reason that [Trump] was elected. In substance, he said he respected people of faith and he promised to protect them in the free exercise of their faith. He declared we would say “Merry Christmas” again."

 

Claiming that we could say "Merry Christmas" hinges on the idea that we were somehow being prevented from doing that. He's pretending that there's some war on Christianity, and using this task force to "protect" them. It's not that Christians "just happen" to be the majority of the population that will be protected by this task force. It's the only religion that Jeff Sessions has any inclination to protect.

There have been over 59 MILLION IMMIGRANTS to the USA since 1965, that's almost a million immigrants every year, that's more than the population of france spain and more than half the population of all mexico, that's 1/5th of the USA's modern population, that's almost twice texas', and that's just the legal immigrants, the USA had 12 million illegal immigrants in 2007.

 

You can't possibly still argue that immigration into the USA is difficult at all when there's more immigrants to the USA in the last 50 years than in any one state and almost any european country. Also, even if it's legal you still can't just let everyone in, they need to assimilate and know the culture and etc, like the black community and hispanic community are still not assimilated judging from how antagonistic they are to whites, or the looming specter of white supremacy, or etc, these need to get sorted out first.

 

Also, there's one very obvious controversy, the bake the cake controversy, or just who to hire for instance, which is definitely "civil rights act vs 1st amendment".

[Dad]

Why do we need to assimilate into your culture? We don't owe you sheet. And you been busy taking our culture for the last 50 years. Stow the bullshit.

 

What kills me is how mad white people get about illegal immigrants taking jobs they don't want. You should be pissed at the manufacture who hired these illegal immigrants OVER YOU, THE AMERICAN CITIZEN, to pay them 1/4 of the money.

 

That's not to say illegal immigration is not a problem, so let me get that out of the way. But we're not gonna sit up here and pretend that white people are up in arms about jobs they never actually wanted.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

https://cis.org/Are-There-Really-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

 

The whole Jobs Americans won't do is a meme JS

[Dad]

So basically, what you're telling me is, "they're taking our jobs"is just another wolf cry from proud boys.

 

Go figure.

[Phantom Roxas]

There have been over 59 MILLION IMMIGRANTS to the USA since 1965, that's almost a million immigrants every year, that's more than the population of france spain and more than half the population of all mexico, that's 1/5th of the USA's modern population, that's almost twice texas', and that's just the legal immigrants, the USA had 12 million illegal immigrants in 2007.

 

You can't possibly still argue that immigration into the USA is difficult at all when there's more immigrants to the USA in the last 50 years than in any one state and almost any european country. Also, even if it's legal you still can't just let everyone in, they need to assimilate and know the culture and etc, like the black community and hispanic community are still not assimilated judging from how antagonistic they are to whites, or the looming specter of white supremacy, or etc, these need to get sorted out first.

 

Also, there's one very obvious controversy, the bake the cake controversy, or just who to hire for instance, which is definitely "civil rights act vs 1st amendment".

 

The number of babies born in 2018 has dropped to a 30 year low of 3.85 million, but even that decline is still well above the million legal immigrants per year. The population of the United States at the time was 301.23 million, so those illegal immigrant made up barely 4% of the population.

 

I'm not saying immigration in and of itself is difficult, I said doing so legally is difficult. Maybe you can't let everyone in, but you're asking them to assimilate before they should be allowed in. You lay the blame at the black and Hispanic communities as if it's their faults for being "antagonistic" to whites, as if it isn't on white people for discriminating against those communities to begin with. Can you blame black and Hispanic people for retaliating, especially when you immediately bring up white supremacy?

 

The cake controversy isn't a violation of anyone's religious freedom. It's someone being blatantly homophobic, and pretending that their religion somehow gives them a free pass to discriminate against the LGBT community.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yeah I can actually, last time I punched my brother cuz he funked with me first, Mom whooped both our asses. "He did it first" is such a childish response, it's above you Roxas

 

SCOTUS Disagrees with you on that, including 2 of the liberal judges

 

Birthrates are dropping since we've stopped focusing on the importance of raising families, instead it's all about "me"

[Dad]

Honestly i thought we stopped having kids because we can't afford it. Or, rather, average people can't afford kids.

[Phantom Roxas]

I'm talking about systemic racism against multiple communities, not some family squabble. Mido suggested that black and Hispanic people have not assimilated because they are still antagonistic to white people, but he seemed to ignore what those communities would be responding to, as if the burden is on them to assimilate regardless, and not on the people destroying those communities.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's a funking analogy roxas, jesus christ, just because you feel some white people are doing shitty things does not give the minorities the right to do it too? Holy cow

[mido9]

 

I'm not saying immigration in and of itself is difficult, I said doing so legally is difficult. Maybe you can't let everyone in, but you're asking them to assimilate before they should be allowed in. You lay the blame at the black and Hispanic communities as if it's their faults for being "antagonistic" to whites, as if it isn't on white people for discriminating against those communities to begin with. Can you blame black and Hispanic people for retaliating, especially when you immediately bring up white supremacy?

 

The cake controversy isn't a violation of anyone's religious freedom. It's someone being blatantly homophobic, and pretending that their religion somehow gives them a free pass to discriminate against the LGBT community.

No, I'm saying the ones that are here, should, then we can consider bringing more. America can't be this broken and divided and antagonistic and then want to bring in more people that are going to fuel it. Also, I dont think there's any actual discrimination, but that's not for this thread and I don't want to make it the focus.

 

Also, yes, not wanting to serve someone for religious reasons is practicing your freedom of religion. You don't forfeit your freedom of religion just because you're interacting with someone else(when you aren't killing them/etc).

[Phantom Roxas]

How do you propose that they assimilate? How is bringing in more people going to fuel that antagonism? I would prefer if you explained how America is so broken and divided, because otherwise you're speaking in such vague terms that don't really offer a proper line of discussion. You can ignore the discrimination that is there if you like, but that is very much the focus of this thread already.

"Most damning is the administration's evident intent to make policy that specifically disadvantages people based on their ethnicity, country of origin and religion."

 

If you think that there is no discrimination, and that discussing it is not for this thread, I encourage you to read the article if you have not already, because that is the subject of the discussion.

 

What religious freedoms are you practicing when you discriminate against people because you're too petty to bake a cake?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Let's not bring the cake thing into this thread. That's a separate topic. Unless the immigration and discrimination against immigrants is directly related to LGBT rights somehow.

 

Also Winter next time you post and specifically insult someone else then you're getting warning points. From here on out. I'm done telling you to leave petty little jabs that don't do anything for the discussion out. If you can't post an argument or point without them then don't post. Not only is it mildly (or sometimes not mildly) flaming but it's just poor posting.

 

No discussion on the matter. This is it.

 

And anyone else who feels the need to jab at the person instead of the argument keep this in mind. I'm not tolerating repeated instances of it. If you slip up a couple times it'll be verbal but there's a point where it's too often.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Let's not bring the cake thing into this thread. That's a separate topic. Unless the immigration and discrimination against immigrants is directly related to LGBT rights somehow.

 

Also Winter next time you post and specifically insult someone else then you're getting warning points. From here on out. I'm done telling you to leave petty little jabs that don't do anything for the discussion out. If you can't post an argument or point without them then don't post. Not only is it mildly (or sometimes not mildly) flaming but it's just poor posting.

 

No discussion on the matter. This is it.

 

And anyone else who feels the need to jab at the person instead of the argument keep this in mind. I'm not tolerating repeated instances of it. If you slip up a couple times it'll be verbal but there's a point where it's too often.

What was the insult? I made sure not to include one even though I was sorely tempted 

 

I given an analogy to highlight why "he did it first" is illogical, and Roxas reads that literally. So I said it's "a funking analogy" Roxas. Never insulted him actually. You can give me wp for any reason basically, but I didn't do what you accused me of doing.

 

Also would it kill people to tag or quote the person they're attempting to respond to?

[vla1ne]

there is only so much room in any country. if you do not get in line, then you are depriving those who have patiently waited their turn. if you do not contribute, then you have deprived those who actively work for the betterment of the people, and the country. also, trump descended from L.E.G.A.L. immigrants. their policies are generally against I.L.L.E.G.A.L. immigrants. there is a blatant difference. on another note, we've been over this before, but to repeat it, we lose 20+ billion a year in government funded programs to care for illegal immigrants. that's nothing like the peddling that lieb and nathan did. one is self made work, with no government reliance, the other is taking money for free, with no work ethic involved. they build up shops and industry, the illegal immigrants we deport, do neither of those things in any signifigant degree (as evidenced by the 20+ billion dollar price tag they tout)

 

we separate all criminals from their kids, and illegal immigration is... illegal. so yeah, they know how it goes. in addition, we also keep them apart because of the sex trafficking problem, but i gues "funk the children" is the diverse new thing to do right? it's not a concentration camp, it's a, up to code boys and girls club. yeah, limiting citizenship of ILLEGAL immigrants is inhumane right? it's not like they came across with no vetting whatsoever ight? i'm sure they all brought their pedigrees huh? as for refugees and the travel ban, considering the terrorism issue that's currently stemming from the muslim hometowns, yeah, i'd cool the heels as well. not to mention how hard it is to vet everybody coming through when you open the borders wide. it's sensible to slow the flow if you can't sustain the vigilance.

 

you know what all the stories had in common? the people in them worked jobs, committed no crimes, and actually applied for citizenship as soon as possible. i don't see MS-13 doing that. 20+ billion dollars later, you'll see thes people blinded by their altruism, and homeless like san fransisco. i'd like to see how many LEGAL immigrants were deported for absolutely no reason. ILLEGAL imigrants are ILLEGAL, they've broken the law just to get here, being deported is the logical conclusion. but who exactly is deporting the law abiding, legal immigrants in america? compassion and wisdom mean nothing if you don't apply logic and common sense. logically, you cannot accept the world, you have to slow down sometime, and common sense tells you that if you can't vet everybody, you shouldn't be letting everybody through. and fearmongering is a valid action, if the fear is being mongered towards a group like MS-13.

 

lastly, a small nitpick, but you made a little remark about draft dodging runs in the family... well, if you'd like to remind the forum what war the draft would have seen his grandfather fighting in, and what side he would have had to fight on had he answered the call, we'd all be rather grateful. 

[Dad]

Fearmongering is not a valid action.  Because that's exactly what terrorist cells do.  I don't care about any of the rest of that post.  That's a disgusting statement.

[vla1ne]

Fearmongering is not a valid action.  Because that's exactly what terrorist cells do.  I don't care about any of the rest of that post.  That's a disgusting statement.

and ms13 does disgusting things. i do agree that that was an overstatement though. but to call the people who protest gangs like that fearmongers is just as much of an overstatement. they chop people up, thir literal motto is "rape, steal kill" they actively target illegal immigrants in their crimes, simply because they have no official documents, they are heavy contributors to the drug trade, and a laundry list of other things could be said as well. to call it fear mongering, when it is simply stating facts, is to attempt turning a blind eye to the facts in question.

[Dad]

I'm not questioning the abuse that MS-13 and literally every other gang across the US that has spread violence and terror to our communities. They're all disgusting and I too would love a day of peace without hearing about them.

 

But I'm also not going to nitpick just because MS-13 is primarily Mexican.

[vla1ne]

I'm not questioning the abuse that MS-13 and literally every other gang across the US that has spread violence and terror to our communities. They're all disgusting and I too would love a day of peace without hearing about them.

 

But I'm also not going to nitpick just because MS-13 is primarily Mexican.

ms13 (the worst offenders) are primarily illegal immigrants, and primarily target illegal immigrants. the topic at hand is about immigration and how the administrations stance is somehow hypocritical. which is why they were the gang used this discussion.