[Discussion] What makes a good or bad super hero character

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

I've watched season 1 of Avengers Assemble lately and I've also watched Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited in the past. I've enjoyed both of them, would recommend both of them, and would gladly watch more of either. However I've noticed that I like Avengers slightly better. After some careful thought I figured out why. Just to make sure people know which versions I'm talking about: This Justice League I'm discussing is here: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275137/ The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes I'm discussing is here https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1626038/

 

My reason for liking Avengers slightly better is that from a character design standpoint no regular character on the team seems "Flat" and they all seem human (figuratively speaking).

 

A common argument I hear against Justice League is that Superman has too many powers, so he's too "Super". I don't feel that this is a detriment because he had a glaring weakness to Kryptonite and is affected normally by magic. Therefore he has weaknesses. Another counter argument is that how powerful a character is in this kind of setting is relative. For example, someone with a machine gun and a bullet proof vest would be OP in the real life 1700s, but less effective in real life world war II. Also more importantly, Superman's characterization is very human. He has emotions, values, morals, and mental (for lack of a better word) weaknesses: He can also be out thought. For example:

 

[spoiler=Spoiler for episode Twilight of the Gods]

Darkside is able to make him angry enough just by showing up at the watch tower that he would have disregarded the safety of his team and the Earth below just to attack Darkside in a rage.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Spoiler for episode Only a Dream]He also has a great fear of hurting people with his powers to the point where he has nightmares about it.

 

 

My personal complaint about Justice League, and why I mentioned "Flat" characters above, is Batman. What is Batman's physical weakness? Nothing! Mental weakness? Nothing! He's only shown to have 1 emotion, "Angst" (if that). Thus his character seems way too robotic in that regard, he seemingly never loses his cool, or gets manipulated, or gets out thought. I concede the point that Batman does have to stay relevant with characters like Superman around, but I'm sure the writing staff could achieve that and make him seem more human at the same time.

 

This is of course merely my opinion. I'd like to hear yours

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Putting it in list format (and I suppose you can extend this list to general protagonists outside of the superhero genre, which I sort of will be doing here).

 

Good Superhero

• Has actual emotions that make them human or normal. This doesn't mean you cannot be shown as that one guy who doesn't smile or something, but just don't be a machine all the way.
• General weaknesses that offset any potential skills they have (which probably ties into emotions)
  • Strong sense of justice can be counteracted by going too far in handling criminals/enemies (i.e. killing them instead of handing them over to authorities); morals/ethics vs laws (even if the government is corrupt as hell)
  • High degree of intelligence offset by laziness.
  • Superman's powers offset by weaknesses to Kryptonite.
• Enough powers to do what they need to do, but not conveniently have access to a countermeasure for every possible situation.
  • i.e. Not OP'd to the point where you're essentially a god or something (see Naruto with Six Path powers and whatever at the end of the series)
• Backstory where they had to endure some degree of struggle; not being pampered from day 1 and living a generally happy life.
• We can relate to these characters in some shape or form, or empathize with their double lives.
• Promotes diversity (i.e. Have some of them be different nationalities instead of just one most of the time)

 

Bad Superhero

 

Suppose this is probably an inverted list of what makes a good hero/protag, but let's see.

• Literal machine (no, it doesn't mean you're a robot, but just lack of personality and not communicative)
• Almost no weaknesses / broken as hell powers; ability to pull off massive BS out of nowhere.
• Lack of any relevant development and writing that leads to the viewer/reader seeing how they got to where they are.
  • In this sense, you're introduced to them as having a ton of powers, but we don't know how they acquired them or any conditions on their usage.
  • I don't consider Batman to be a bad hero; he's good at everything, but not having supernatural powers (suppose it makes up for that).
• Cannot associate with them because they're (almost) inhuman.
  • Can literally do everything under the sun without having drawbacks.
  • Unrelatable personality
  • Cannot feel emotions
  • Perfect life
• I guess being a Gary Stu (good in everything, impossible to outsmart and having the kind of personality that only exists in dreams)
• Not promoting diversity.

---

 

Don't get me wrong, it's fine to have some unrealistic characteristics but not to the point where you're literally that perfect character with no real flaws and seems like you're just copy/paste from somewhere else. 

[.Rooster]

A good superhero has to be Op, but not super OP. They can’t be the strongest being in their universe unless they’re Saitama, There also has to be a badass rival that kicks the hero’s ass first time around, but become the hero’s jabroni after their rematch. Also what Sakura said

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Assemble was a very poor successor of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, due to the simplification of the characters, repetitive conflict, and just playing it for kids (which is admittedly justified from a marketing standpoint, but still, you make me miss EMH). Now, that aside...

 

Sakura's list is actually fairly well-put together. Though I'd like to point something out. Lack of weakness is not an inherent flaw. As was mentioned, saitama is a wonderfully well-written character, as his conflict is not one of trying to defeat enemies.

 

What a hero (or protagonist in general) needs is a conflict that matches their own personal shortcomings.

 

 

 

 

Also Kryptonite is literally the biggest problem with Superman, and a gigantic writing crutch.

[Thar]

Gary Stus are great, though.

 

In all seriousness, while Gary Stus are entertaining in moderation, they can make a story boring and pointless when abused, much like god-modding in an RP but no one's reminding you to wind down. As long as the character has some kind of weakness(es), vices, and/or just interesting/relatable character traits,  then that should be enough for a good hero/villain.

[cr47t]

Bad Superhero

 

Suppose this is probably an inverted list of what makes a good hero/protag, but let's see.

• Literal machine (no, it doesn't mean you're a robot, but just lack of personality and not communicative)
• Almost no weaknesses / broken as hell powers; ability to pull off massive BS out of nowhere.
• Lack of any relevant development and writing that leads to the viewer/reader seeing how they got to where they are.
  • In this sense, you're introduced to them as having a ton of powers, but we don't know how they acquired them or any conditions on their usage.
  • I don't consider Batman to be a bad hero; he's good at everything, but not having supernatural powers (suppose it makes up for that).
• Cannot associate with them because they're (almost) inhuman.
  • Can literally do everything under the sun without having drawbacks.
  • Unrelatable personality
  • Cannot feel emotions
  • Perfect life
• I guess being a Gary Stu (good in everything, impossible to outsmart and having the kind of personality that only exists in dreams)
• Not promoting diversity.

---

 

Don't get me wrong, it's fine to have some unrealistic characteristics but not to the point where you're literally that perfect character with no real flaws and seems like you're just copy/paste from somewhere else. 

I think this is a good analysis not just for superhero characters, but for characters in general. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen an otherwise interesting character design get ruined by having some of these traits. I don't have much else to say, as I'm not really into superhero stuff.

[Tinkerer]

If these things can be applied to characters as a whole, then what (exactly) makes a superhero character?

 

It isn't their "upstanding-ness" (as that has been subverted to death and back).

 

It isn't their powers per-se (Batman as the obvious example, but then you could also take the opposite route and say why aren't shonen anime protagonists considered "superheroes").

 

 

...though this question might be a bit out of topic, I think getting some kind of working understanding of what a superhero is would make sense in order to determine what separates good ones from bad ones. If it is out of the range of this topic, let me know and I might go ahead and make a separate post about it.

 

[spoiler Personal story writing quirk about supers that's even more off-topic]I guess this whole thing about what makes a superhero and separating good ones from bad ones is why I hardly use the term "superhero" in my own personal writings. Despite mostly writing "superhero" stories, I generally use the more ambiguous term "SPP" - Super Powered Person - and make sure to exclusively use the term superhero or [super]villain to describe a character based on other people's perceptions rather than an IRL standard. This kinda allows for me to have fun labeling a single SPP as a hero and a villain over the course of a single story, and actually makes some light plot points for a few of 'em.

 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

why aren't shonen anime protagonists considered "superheroes"

 

In all seriousness, the term "superhero" and the culture it brings with it are by all means a western thing. This translates to the term pretty much only being used in anime when said anime is intentionally paying homage to Western hero story telling, with My Hero Academia being a current and close example. One punch man also comes to mind.

 

The loose definition of a superhero would be an individual with extraordinary ability (despite the concept, Batman is functionally superhuman) who uses that strength to serve society. Following this idea, some anime characters could be defined as a superhero, while others wouldn't.

 

At the end of the day, "superhero" is just an arbitrarily defined term, and whether or not we call a character that or not does not (and should not) set the standard for how they are utilized as story telling devices.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

Assemble was a very poor successor of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, due to the simplification of the characters, repetitive conflict, and just playing it for kids (which is admittedly justified from a marketing standpoint, but still, you make me miss EMH).

After 2 seasons of Assemble I agree with you.