Pokémon Archetype Club

[Ninjask Is Bae]

Hello, I only really made this club to stop being a hypocrite, because I always say a club like this would be good for the forum but I never made a club like it.

The idea of this club is to make a Pokémon Archetype in Yu-Gi-Oh which includes all Pokémon. That is a project which is way too big for just one person if you really want to put some effort into the cards. I also think it would just be good fun.

[spoiler=What are the rules of the club?]Site wide rules of course in addition to these rules I made to make the project go more smoothly, some of these are more goals than rules, but just roll with it.


Rule 1: There will be a clear blueprint for each type of card. So stage 1 Pokémon will all be alike and stage 2 Poké with another evolution all being alike etc.

What are these blueprints? As of now they are:
[spoiler=List of card blueprints]
All things that are in [these kinds of brackets] can be filled in with what you see fit. What is not in brackets will always be the same (a.k.a. as it is in the Blueprint). If you want to make a Pokémon a Normal Monster, you need to have a VERY good reason for that.
[spoiler=Non-Mythical/Legendary Basic Pokémon with an evolution]
Name: Poké[Primary Type] - [Name of Pokémon]

level 3 or lower (maybe level 4 if you have a good reason for it)/[type]/[Attribute]/Effect

Effect: [An effect which either has to do with what the Pokémon is known for, how it behaves/who it is used by in the anime or how it is used in competitive Pokémon/A casual playthrough of Pokémon, probably with some Archetype support for its type]

[A logical ATK and DEF stat for a level 3 or lower monster based on the Pokémon's in-game stats]

[spoiler=Non-Mythical/Legendary Basic Pokémon without an evolution]
Name: Poké[Primary Type] - [Name of Pokémon]

around level 4/[type]/[Attribute]/Effect

Effect:[An effect which either has to do with what the Pokémon is known for, how it behaves/who it is used by in the anime or how it is used in competitive Pokémon/A casual playthrough of Pokémon, probably with some Archetype support for its type]

[A logical ATK and DEF stat for a level ~4 monster based on the Pokémon's in-game stats]

[spoiler=Stage 2 Pokémon]
Name: Poké[Primary Type] - [Name of Pokémon]

around level 5/[type]/[Attribute]/Effect

Effect: You can Special Summon this card, from your hand, by tributing 1 level 4 or lower [sub-Archetype(s) of prevo] monster. [Effect]. If this card is Special Summoned using [Prevo] as a tribute this card gains the following effect:
● [Effect]

[A logical ATK and DEF stat for a level ~5 monster based on the Pokémon's in-game stats]

[spoiler=Gyms]
Name: [Name of the Gym's Location] Gym

Field Spell

Effect: [An effect that supports the Type Sub-Archetype of the Gym and has something to do with either the Gym leader, the Gym itself or the Pokémon that the Gym-leader has. If the Gym does not support 1 specific type, make it support either the "Poké" Archetype as a whole or specifically the types that the Gym does have.]

Rule 2: We will work together on everything and we will deside together what will be "official", cards that have been desides as official by the club will be added in this post. There is a list of "official" cards at the bottom of this post.

Rule 3: Cards can be "reserved", meaning you can ask to make a certain card, this way no two people will put their heart, sweat and tears into cards with only 1 ever actually getting a shot. If you want to re-do a card that is already "official". Please give arguments as to why you think you could do a better job than the already existing card. There is a list of "reserved" cards at the bottom of this post.

Rule 4: All posts of cards must be worthy of ADVANCED card design. Explain the choices you made and how the card would fit in the Archetype! When deciding on wether or not you support a card be made official, please give arguments as to why you think the card should/should not be made official.

Rule 5: I will add the official cards to this posts, those cards are official. I will listen to your voices, so even if I don't like a card I will add it, if it has majority support. DO NOT WHINE AT ME FOR BEING TOO SLOW WITH ADDING CARDS BECAUSE I WILL LOOK AT YOU WITH A DISSAPOINTED LOOK!

[spoiler=How Will We make an Archetype with all Pokémon?]
We have divided the Archetype into 18 sub-Archetypes being the 18 types of Pokémon. These are called the following: "Poké[type]". If we do this these Pokémon will also all fall into the bigger Archetype called "Poké".

There is also evolution, which is done by special summon from the hand by tributing a lower level monster of the same type

Lots of HOPT effects. Meaning the effect a card with that name can only be used once per turn. This will prevent such a huge archetype from becoming an FTK machine.

But honestly though, more cards doesn't always mean more better. Just look at Genex.

[spoiler=How do I join?]Simply post in this thread you would want to join. I'll send you a link to a discord server. But I don't think we'll use that a lot.

[spoiler=List of Members]Ninjaskisbae
Tinkerer
Monotaro
Flash Flyer - Sakura

[spoiler=Official Cards]
Slugma, Magcargo, Torkoal and Lavaridge Gym (by Ninjaskisbae)
(Link: https://forum.yugioh...flannery-cards/)
Remoraid, Octillary and Shuckle (by Tinkerer)
(Link: https://forum.yugioh...eam-pacwritten/)
Parental Bond (by Ninjaskisbae)
(Link:https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/373514-written-pac-pok%C3%A9ability-parental-bond/)
Rattata, Raticate and Girafarig (by Tinkerer)
(Link: https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/374123-rattata-raticate-girafarig-and-hyper-beam-pacwritten/)

Chikorita Line (by Tinkerer)
(Link: https://forum.yugioh...eam-pacwritten/)

Growlithe and Arcanine (by Sakura)

(Link: https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/373885-pac-pok%C3%A9fire-growlithe-arcanine/)

Ghastly, Haunter and Gengar (by Ninjaskisbae)

(Link: https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/373841-ghastly-haunter-and-gengar-pacwritten/)

[spoiler=Cards Awaiting Approval]

Oricorio (by Ninjask is Bae)

(Link:https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/374716-written-pac-pok%C3%A9-oricorio/)
Rotom and all its forms (by Monotaro)(Inactive)
(Link:https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/373945-pac-pok%C3%A9electric-rotom-and-all-of-its-forms/)

[spoiler=Reserved Cards]
Eevee line (by Sakura)
Lucario line (by Sakura)

Oricorio (by Ninjaskisbae)

 

[Tinkerer]

It's good to see your initiative.  If you want to make a change, it is good to aim to begin that change yourself.

 

In any case, I'll bite.  I've had over a hundred personal pokemon cards myself, but they went up in smoke when my last computer died.  Haven't tried to redo it since.  Having a consistent direction in design for me is really helpful though, so once we get the base idea sorted out, I'll help make a few.

 

Since you noted that it has to be worthy of going into Advanced, I assume no "Pokemon" type.  That is what I had used, because I was more focused on the pokemon's stage (Baby, Basic, ST1, ST2) being in their name (I'm not suggesting to do that.  It was simply how I did it).  I am a fan of Poke[type] as a means of grouping them, but I'm not as fond (personally) of tying them down to equips and tethering them down to how they work in their own tcg.

 

I have other ideas but I'd like to see more peeps join first.

[Ninjask Is Bae]

The more I think about the equips, the more they look like a bad idea. They either just drag down the other cards or if they are too fast they will become FTK machines with stuff like Royal Magical Library.

 

Also, no, I was not thinking of making new types and such. I really wanted this project to be as close as possible to "Pokémon in Yu-Gi-Oh".

 

Personally I would be a big fan of trying to really make them "Evolve" by Special Summoning them by tributing the prevo and gaining effects if they are special summoned that way. What do you think of that?

 

Anyway, I hope more people join soon... If not a lot of people join I'll simply start throwing around Blueprints myself I think, as I'm not a fan of letting this wait for 30 days and not doing anything with it.

[Tinkerer]

I personally find that to take on a project this large, you can't be too picky or overly gimmicky.  The "free SS by tributing preevolution" is one that is perfectly reasonable and is a theme that can be carried through, as long as the Stage 1/2 'mon can be used otherwise.  The evolutions shouldn't just be a glorified Normal Monster (when summoned normally), but instead gain a specific benefit if summoned using the evolution method.  As another possible benchmark element: I might suggest keeping all Basic 'mon (except legends/mythicals) as level 4 or lower just so we have a rough area of power as more stuff is made.

A thing of note is that because this is what it is, we might need to ask for a special exception for this to be posted in Advanced (as in, not having to adhere to the Advanced Clause).  I'm sure that wouldn't be too big an issue, though.  The AGM's Generic card pool is in Advanced despite it being another format entirely.  If ya want, I can ask around.

The third thing to just throw out there would be the idea of also having "Pokétools" or "Poké-Items" or something as backrow support (instead of exclusively having monsters).

[Ninjask Is Bae]

You know what. I'll already fill in some blueprints, because like this, we can't do anything. I think you'll like those blueprints anyway.

 

Also, I would actually want it to probably be a generic special summoning condition. So the stage 2 pokémon can be specialled by tributing any basic pokémon of the same type, but they gain EXTRA effects when they are summoned using their actual pre-evolution as a tribute.

 

As for the Spell/Trap line up. I was thinking of having "PokéAbillity" cards as Continuous/Quick Play/Normal Spell/Traps, "PokéItem" cards, which are the Hold Items in Pokémon, as Equip Cards, "PokéGym" cards as Field Spells and just normal "Poké" cards that are just normal items or places in the Pokémon series as cards that just do other stuff for the Archetype. What do you think of that?

[Tinkerer]

Bumping for interest.

[👀 REP 👀]

sure I'll bite, I've tried my hand at Pokemon sets countless times before scrapping them. Would be interesting to try again with a group of people.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Might as well note interest in this club.

 

I've made Pokemon cards over the years, though they're mostly the fully evolved forms / legendaries because they're easier to design for (though adapting them for the competitive game without certain things that are pertinent to them in the handheld games)

 

[spoiler=Sample threads]

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/321357-sakura-pok%C3%A9mon-card-set-2121/

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/323021-sakura-pok%C3%A9mon-card-set-2-29/

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/327474-sakura-pok%C3%A9mon-card-set-3-6/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/360014-sakura-lycanroc-the-sun-wolf/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/360721-solgaleo-the-radiant-sun-emissary

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/364700-sakura-alola-ninetales-emissary-of-ice/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/366718-sakura-braviary-the-true-valor-eagle/

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/370480-sakura-37k-lycanroc-the-dusk-wolf/

 

 

 

A lot of them are from 2014-ish when ARC-V was just starting out, but yeah, you get it. AGM has a few of them already.

 

---

 

I'll save other thoughts about the intended scope of the project and whatnot until after membership becomes official.

[Ninjask Is Bae]

Might as well note interest in this club.

 

 

I'll save other thoughts about the intended scope of the project and whatnot until after membership becomes official.

 

can I take from this you wanna join? I'm not very good at "reading between the lines".

 

@@Reptilious I added you to the member list! Will send a pm with the discord.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

can I take from this you wanna join? I'm not very good at "reading between the lines".

 

@@Reptilious I added you to the member list! Will send a pm with the discord.

 

Yeah, I want to join.

[Tinkerer]

For the blueprints for non-legendary basic pokemon w/ an Evo: I think they should be level 3 or lower, not just all level 3.  Considering the numbers of 'mon we'll do, it could get really repetitive.  Also, there are basics that are simply weaker than others.

 

I do like the ones that don't evolve being level 4 though.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

For the blueprints for non-legendary basic pokemon w/ an Evo: I think they should be level 3 or lower, not just all level 3.  Considering the numbers of 'mon we'll do, it could get really repetitive.  Also, there are basics that are simply weaker than others.

 

I do like the ones that don't evolve being level 4 though.

 

Agreeing with the first part, considering yeah, not all of them are scaled the same. Let's consider something like Pichu, Sunkern or Magikarp. Yeah, all of these have generally bad stats for first stages and should be lower Leveled. In the latter case, well, it literally does nothing for the first 15 levels.

 

Second part, well, a lot of the non-evolving stuff usually are at or under 500 BST anyway, so it can work out. Issue is that some of them do have Mega Evolutions, which will push them into the range of either full evolved starters or the small legendaries. But you can address that later. Should probably give leeway for this one too in level, since not all of the non-evolving 'mons are actually competent (i.e. PU status because stats/abilities suck, movepool is bad or just outclassed as hell by others).

 

====

 

As for the scope of the project in general, I would probably err more on designing for Yugioh mechanics; not trying to retain the entire Pokemon abilities and things, because otherwise, it likely will end up as a very gimmicky project to work with. There's a reason why LV monsters aren't seen anymore, even casually, so to work with the evolution mechanic, yeah. Suppose just have the evolved forms be SS'able by Tributing a monster in its name text, but as an optional thing. Don't go the Allure Queen / Dark Lucius path because that was a terrible idea on Konami's part (I mention these two because they're the closest for flavor reasons in evolution). 

 

====

 

While dealing with the fully evolved 'mons and legendaries (going ahead of self a bit), a good Level scale would be like this (somewhat, I guess). A lot of it is somewhat derived from the scale I used for mine in the past. 

• Second stage: Level 4-5 (can also apply to stuff like Raichu and any of the fully evolved 'mons that aren't as good)
• Fully evolved: Probably Level 6 or 7, depending on how things turn out.
• Mega Evolved non-legendaries: Probably Level 6-7 (though I made them as Rank 4-5 Xyz and went the Rank-Up route for these most of the time.)
• Cosmog/Cosmoem: Probably follow the same standards given above, as they're technically outliers. (Or we can eschew them and just move on to their box forms; in the long run, they do not accomplish much.)
• Minor legendaries (UB/Tapus/580 group): Level 7
• Mythicals / 600 group (Eons): Level 7-8 (flexible)
• Box legendaries / Mewtwo: Level 9-10 (usually 10 works, but depends. Kyogre is probably exception)
• Arceus: Level 10-11 (well, still highest BST without evolutions / alternative formes without stat raises)
• Mega Evolved legendaries: Level 10-12 (Lower limit for minors/mythicals, upper for Mega Ray / Mew2 and suppose Ultra Necrozma)

Work this out as we go along, I suppose. 

[Tinkerer]

By the by, I'd like to put a reservation on making the pokemon Shuckle.

[Ninjask Is Bae]

I agree on the level 3 or lower thing. Hadn't thought about it like that yet, so I changed it.

 

 

As for the scope of the project in general, I would probably err more on designing for Yugioh mechanics; not trying to retain the entire Pokemon abilities and things, because otherwise, it likely will end up as a very gimmicky project to work with. There's a reason why LV monsters aren't seen anymore, even casually, so to work with the evolution mechanic, yeah. Suppose just have the evolved forms be SS'able by Tributing a monster in its name text, but as an optional thing. Don't go the Allure Queen / Dark Lucius path because that was a terrible idea on Konami's part (I mention these two because they're the closest for flavor reasons in evolution). 

 

Allure Queen and Dark Lucius were mistakes. All Pokémon should be playable even if their pre-evolution is not in the same deck, imo. That's also why I mentioned being able to Special Summon them using any Pokémon of the same type and a stage lower, albeit maybe at the compromise of a part of their effect. (I'm thinking the way that Pikachu gains extra effects in the Pokémon TCG if it is summoned by evolving a Pichu)

 

As for the not basing effects on abilities and things, what would you advice then? Of course their personallity will have to be compromised to actually make a working archetype. But having for example a Bellossom going around and popping cards is just weird. It would make much more sense for Bellossom to buff your ally Pokémon for example (Healer Abillity). Or buff itself (Quiver Dance).

 

 

While dealing with the fully evolved 'mons and legendaries (going ahead of self a bit), a good Level scale would be like this (somewhat, I guess). A lot of it is somewhat derived from the scale I used for mine in the past. 

• Second stage: Level 4-5 (can also apply to stuff like Raichu and any of the fully evolved 'mons that aren't as good)
• Fully evolved: Probably Level 6 or 7, depending on how things turn out.
• Mega Evolved non-legendaries: Probably Level 6-7 (though I made them as Rank 4-5 Xyz and went the Rank-Up route for these most of the time.)
• Cosmog/Cosmoem: Probably follow the same standards given above, as they're technically outliers. (Or we can eschew them and just move on to their box forms; in the long run, they do not accomplish much.)
• Minor legendaries (UB/Tapus/580 group): Level 7
• Mythicals / 600 group (Eons): Level 7-8 (flexible)
• Box legendaries / Mewtwo: Level 9-10 (usually 10 works, but depends. Kyogre is probably exception)
• Arceus: Level 10-11 (well, still highest BST without evolutions / alternative formes without stat raises)
• Mega Evolved legendaries: Level 10-12 (Lower limit for minors/mythicals, upper for Mega Ray / Mew2 and suppose Ultra Necrozma)

Work this out as we go along, I suppose. 

Looks like a good level scale, though I personally would make the Legendaries, Megas and some Mythicals Extra Deck/Ritual monsters. I was also personnally struggling with finding the balance between having the scaling of the evolution represented in the level, but also not having the weaker ones be too hard to summon, I think this list is a good compromise with that.

 

The Blueprints are really only meant to be so that the Archetype isn't all over the place, so I think they could be less strict than they are now.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I agree on the level 3 or lower thing. Hadn't thought about it like that yet, so I changed it.

 

 

Allure Queen and Dark Lucius were mistakes. All Pokémon should be playable even if their pre-evolution is not in the same deck, imo. That's also why I mentioned being able to Special Summon them using any Pokémon of the same type and a stage lower, albeit maybe at the compromise of a part of their effect. (I'm thinking the way that Pikachu gains extra effects in the Pokémon TCG if it is summoned by evolving a Pichu)

 

As for the not basing effects on abilities and things, what would you advice then? Of course their personallity will have to be compromised to actually make a working archetype. But having for example a Bellossom going around and popping cards is just weird. It would make much more sense for Bellossom to buff your ally Pokémon for example (Healer Abillity). Or buff itself (Quiver Dance).

 

 

Looks like a good level scale, though I personally would make the Legendaries, Megas and some Mythicals Extra Deck/Ritual monsters. I was also personnally struggling with finding the balance between having the scaling of the evolution represented in the level, but also not having the weaker ones be too hard to summon, I think this list is a good compromise with that.

 

The Blueprints are really only meant to be so that the Archetype isn't all over the place, so I think they could be less strict than they are now.

 

1. Well, you can technically keep the abilities if you can feasibly correlate them to something useful in Yugioh. Stuff like Magic Bounce for Espeon was basically "if card effect activates, you can redirect it elsewhere". A lot of them have hidden ones which are significantly better than their standards. 

 

Movesets work too, but usually boils down to "what is the best set that can be taken and correlated into our terms without doing something awkward". For certain moves, they can translate well into a Yugioh basing, but others might not. 

 

What I probably should've said was just try not to have it replicate the actual game mechanics in Pokemon entirely (some are fine, but others won't). So in the case of stuff like Slaking, Regigigas, Archeops and whatever has a terrible ability, don't replicate it in design. 

 

(tl;dr, keeping the abilities and movesets factored is fine, but just don't go all the way)

 

2. I technically made the legendaries as ED monsters (well, Synchros anyway), though it was before Master Rule 4 came out (but not like you would have 2+ at the same time anyway). When we get there, you guys can decide on how to go about it. 

 

Stuff like B/W Kyurem and the Necrozma formes probably will be Fusions by nature, but yeah. 

[Ninjask Is Bae]

So, I wanted to reserve Slugma, Magcargo, Torkoal and Lavaridge Gym. But I stumbled accross the following problem.

 

What level do I make Magcargo? With the whole evolution thing, 5 would make the most sense. But then when you look at stats and usabillity, 4 makes more sense. What to do? What to do?

 

So, for now, I'll just reserve Slugma, Torkoal and Lavaridge Gym.

 

I want to reserve more cards at the same time because I want to make them a sort of sub-set btw. If people don't like them when they I post them, just "vote" against them.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

You can make Magcargo a Level 4, since it isn't particularly strong compared to other Stage 2 'mons (BST 430 is lower compared to some of the stuff that doesn't evolve). Rest of it, well, that's up to you to design its effects based on everything we know about it. 

[👀 REP 👀]

I'm gonna go ahead and reserve Rotom and all of its forms (since the cards will be closely tied together).

[Ninjask Is Bae]

I added a new blueprint. If anyone has problems with it please do speak up.

[Ninjask Is Bae]

I finished my first batch of cards for the Archetype! Hope you guys come by to look if they are good enough!

 

Link to cards:

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/373276-written-pac-pok%C3%A9fire-flannery-cards/

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

For the most part, seems okay, but may be subject to change as more designs come out. 

 

As of right now, I'll probably reserve Arcanine and the Eeveelution line (latter will probably require a different design strategy, given Eevee's unorthodox evolutions and all). For legendaries, calling the Eon siblings, but let's get to them after we flesh out the standard 'mons.

 

===

In this case, 2 stage 'mons may break the template a bit and fall under the guidelines I suggested earlier (i.e. Arcanine has higher BST comparatively, so potentially Level 6-7; Eeveelutions likely Level 6, but can try to make them Level 5).

 

We'll have to see, because yeah, the template isn't accurate for scaling as some 'mons are comparatively larger than the averages they're designed for. In terms of ideal BST limits, you can probably use these as rough guidelines. 

• Stage 2: More/less referring to the middle stages for the 3-part ones; not for the entirety of fully-evolved 'mons like the ones that only evolve once. 
  • BST 380 - 450/460? (It's a iffy limit because some fully evolved stuff do have a lower BST than even mid-stage evolutions, though a few have abilities that double their stats)
• Fully-evolved: Normally the range is for 500-540 BST, but some smaller ones may need higher Levels to accommodate for their stronger attacks/defenses. Conversely, really gimmicky ones may be lower Level (like what you did with Magcargo)
  • Arcanine has BST 555, which is technically the highest out of any non-Mega or legendary 'mon without drawbacks (Archeops and Slaking both have higher stats, but their abilities suck). 

In a sense, setting absolute Level limits isn't exactly a good idea because exceptions do exist and can fall out of the ranges. Granted, a few 'mons who are in the BST range for fully-evolved mentioned above aren't exactly great except for walling due to absurdly high defenses (and HP) and bad offense, so they can fall into the Level 4 range. Others can probably fall into the specs in the template, but in a lot of cases, some design room may be needed. 

 

Yeah, difficulty in designing Pokemon cards given the above are a reason why I only picked certain 'mons to design for, and not the entire Pokedex. 

 

===

Legendaries (mythicals are grouped here too) and most of the competitively used stuff (roughly UU and above) are easier to categorize by Levels; the most obscure stuff in PU (or not having viable offenses, etc) and whatnot pose some challenge.

[Ninjask Is Bae]

That's why the blueprints say "~5". You can just of course make them a different level if you have a reason. I'll replace the swigly line with "usually 5 unless there is a reason for a different level". And if there are slight inconsitansies in the levels. Then... so what?

 

Also, I added your reservations to the list.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

If there's some inconsistencies between Levels here, then it's no big deal. I brought up that point because yeah, not all fully evolved 'mons are as powerful (a few being even worse than 2nd stage evos in a three Pokemon line) and the template doesn't necessarily fit all of them, level-wise.

 

Just deal with them on a case-by-case basis, given everything we have to work with.

 

We do have over 800 'mons to design for, plus the Gyms and other stuff (which will end up larger than that guy's DBZ project in Experimental, however our stuff will actually work [or least be designed with the goal of making them survive the meta at the current time]).

[Ninjask Is Bae]

Do any of you have anything to say about the cards currently up for scutiny? Maybe some clear ways the cast should be changed in your opponion? Any feedback is appreciated.

 

Also, what do you guys think of me making an Abillity card? Which would be a card base around the Abillity Partental Bond.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

If you're referring to Flannery's stuff, see review in there. As for Tinkerer, Reptilious, etc, you'd need to get on them. Lavaridge should be fine for now without needing to nerf it again for potential OTKs. 

 

No objections to ability cards, though just don't make one for every single ability that exists in Pokemon (well, taking into consideration some of them are literally rebranded versions of each other because giving them the others doesn't work flavorwise).