[Discussion] Why do people condem Wesley Crusher [Startrek TNG] as a mary sue more then Chis Thorndike [Sonic X]?

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

I personally feel that Wesley get listed as a Cannon Sue more then he should, and the fact that Chris Thorndike didn't make the Cannot Sue target list offends me. Let me break down my argument:

 

Argument vindicating Wesley:

- He doesn't dominate every or almost every episode. This may be due to the fact that Startrek's writers know how to give each character a few episodes where they are the focus and have a chance to shine so to speak. None the less, this is well worth bringing up.

- He's smart but other characters state that he studies hard to earn it. In one episode his mother worries that he's overworking himself.

- He solves his problems in believable ways and has realistic interactions with others. I cite his romantic attempts in "The Dauphin" and his worry about leading a team of scientist in "Pen Pals" as examples. Also, in the episode (I couldn't find the name) where he accidentally creates sentient nanites he causes the problem of the episode and doesn't have much of a hand in fixing it.

- Just because he seems to be named after Gene Wesley Roddenberry doesn't mean that people should jump to conclusions.

 

Argument incriminating Chris:

- He dominates most episodes in an unrealistic way. Contrast to someone like Captain Picard who has reason to be on screen a lot since he's captain of the Enterprise. This persists to the point where Chris joins Sonic on adventures despite the fact that he's almost useless against Eggman and his robot of the week since he has no way to fight or defend himself. Contrast with Koji Oneeshi (sp?) from Transformers Robots in Disguise who either waits at the Autobot's command center and observes via video feed or occasionally,but never unrealistically, happens to be in the same place as the plot of the week.

- The definition of a black hole sue is other characters and reality itself contort to the Sue's will. Chris breaks the laws of Physics on more then one occasion with no explanation. Firstly he breaks free of metal manacles just be straining hard enough against them. This is bad enough on its own, however in season 4 he's able to create a teleporter that without any Chaos Emeralds allows him to travel to Mobius. Never mind the fact the the whole first season's plot revolved around needing the Emeralds for such a device.

- In season 4 Chis learned a lot of skills off screen during a time skip. That's better then him suddenly being able to do things that he couldn't before for no reason. However the fact that he can make shoes for Sonic that are Mobian tech level is pushing things too far, especially when he also had to get a pilots license, a black belt, and finish school in those 6 years It also fuels the black hole sue argument by pushing Tails' technical expertise into the background. Its a subject for another thread, but I dislike the fact that Tails seemed like a glorified interstellar taxi driver in season 4, since the Blue Typhoon's only effective weapon required Sonic.

- The following may make him more of an eyesore then a Mary Sue, but he doesn't have any real flaws, nor does he endear himself to the viewers during the series. His life is already perfect before he meets Sonic, since he has a bunch of friends at school, rich parents, and no real problems to speak of. Thus his encounter with Sonic has no meaning. Contrast with yugioh duel monsters or yugioh zexal where the meeting between Yugi and the nameless pharaoh / Yuma and Astral brings character development and learning for both parties involved.

[UltimateIRS]

people like star trek

 

nobody likes sonic x

 

that's why

[mitchermitcher]

fricking fricks you all ruined sonic (X)

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

people like star trek

 

nobody likes sonic x

 

that's why

I figured exposure might have something to do with it, but i still don't think that Wesley deserves that label.

[Catterjune]

Wesley was meant to be treated as an equal in the Star Trek series.

 

FagBalls was, very clearly, not meant as an equal to anyone on the main Sonic Team, at least at first.

 

Also the two aren't even on the same level. One was a culturally significant show. One was a show for babies and disgusting furries.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

Wesley was meant to be treated as an equal in the Star Trek series.

 

FagBalls was, very clearly, not meant as an equal to anyone on the main Sonic Team, at least at first.

 

Also the two aren't even on the same level. One was a culturally significant show. One was a show for babies and disgusting furries.

I'm well aware that they aren't even close to the same writing quality. More importantly though, this is the 2nd time you've lashed out against furries in one of my threads. In order to not derail this thread I'm going to respond to that in a PM. edit: Make that the debates section. I'll see you there

[DuelMaster J]

Chris sucks. Sonic X is an okay show that was cursed by 4kids dubbing. Chris isn't the only crap character("cough"Topaz, Big, Amy(Look at the love potion ep.) and Bokun to name a few.(cough)) I find the show pretty funny but admittedly the writing is kinda lackluster.