[CYHO] Cyber Dragon Sieger

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

CYHO-JP046 Cyber Dragon [sieger]

Link 2 LIGHT Machine Link Effect Monster

ATK 2100

Links: Left, Bottom

Materials: 2 Machine monsters, including “Cyber Dragon”

You can only use this card name’s (2) effect once per turn.

(1) This card’s name becomes “Cyber Dragon” while it is face-up or in the GY.

(2) During the Battle Phase, if this card did not attack (Quick Effect): You can target 1 Machine monster you control with 2100 or more ATK; it gains 2100 ATK/DEF until the end of this turn, also any battle damage either player receives from battles involving this card becomes 0 for the rest of this turn.

 

[Aman Indra]

Am i missing something or is this LINK total trash ? I am dissapointed, we go from Infinity levels of support to this.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Am i missing something or is this LINK total trash ? I am dissapointed, we go from Infinity levels of support to this.

It counts as Cydra in the grave, so you can use it with high utility? The link arrows function much like Double Helix.

 

It's not deck defining, but it does very clearly let the deck extend. You can also clear out your EMZ with ease using this

[Thomas★Zero]

basically this lets you get both Infinity and Megafleet out on the field at the same time with the down marker for Infintiy and then use it with other Cydra/EMZ Monsters for Megafleet.

[Atypical-Abbie]

Well, Cyber Dragon have it somewhat easy to bring back monsters, so its Link Arrows do work for it. It may be the surprise you need in some cases, 2100 extra ATK can pretty much get over everything you need it to. Also, it seems to be able to target itself, so it pretty much won't die in battle, so it has that going for it, which other low LINK monsters don't typically have. Not completely awful, but I do still think that Cyber Dragon could have hoped for more.

[Blake]

It’s terrible.

 

This is just even more trouble for CyDra when megafleet exists. If you need a Link, Qliphort Genius is better.

[The Highlander]

It’s terrible.

 

This is just even more trouble for CyDra when megafleet exists. If you need a Link, Qliphort Genius is better.

Though this card fullfills the same purpose as utopia the lightning, I am not saying it is great, however stating fleet does the same already is just wrong, it does something somewhat similar while opening up the slot it takes, so calling it a cross between genius and fleet would be more appropriate.

[Blake]

Though this card fullfills the same purpose as utopia the lightning, I am not saying it is great, however stating fleet does the same already is just wrong, it does something somewhat similar while opening up the slot it takes, so calling it a cross between genius and fleet would be more appropriate.

Way to miss the entire point.

 

The deck already had a major weakness (and strength) because of Megafleet’ssuper easy removal. This just makes the deck even more vulnerable to it.

 

I said it was “trouble for CyDra”, so I have no clue why you thought I was saying Megafleet did its job. Use context clues.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It’s terrible.

 

This is just even more trouble for CyDra when megafleet exists. If you need a Link, Qliphort Genius is better.

Genius wont have senergy with the other CyDra cards. This at least counts for repair and can be summoned from Network

[Blake]

Meanwhile, Genius has two arrows and lets you end on boards that don’t get ducked by Megafleet.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Meanwhile, Genius has two arrows and lets you end on boards that don’t get ducked by Megafleet.

Do people commonly just tech in Megafleet TCG side or something?

[Blake]

Megafleet is a card that exists. If CyDra is remotely relevant, then Megafleet is super relevant.

 

Never mind that it’s not even terrible as a Kaiju-like option.

[Expelsword]

I used to play a Chimeratch Fortress in all my decks just because it countered Cyber Dragons.

If Cyber Dragons become relevant, Megafleet will do the same.

[VCR_CAT]

Personally, for ABC’s, or really any machine/needlefiber deck, I would side 3 CyDras and a Megafleet, possibly a Fortress, for when I know I’ll be going second. By then it’s just a free summon into a removal for a machine non-tuner, and that’s just nice to have. Gofu’s gone and right now there’s no empty-field-free-summon to fill that space save for Hornet Bit. In some ways it’s a card you won’t see often, but in others it’s one I would recommend just keeping in mind, cause you never know.

[Thomas★Zero]

One thing I noticed is that it only prevents damage dealt by itself when the effect is used so if you have something like a Cyber Twin use this effect on it to make it 4900 ATK that can attack twice, the Cyber Twin can still deal massive damage.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Why does it require cydra? Otherwise it could have given easy megafleet access to decks like qli or deskbots.

 

I much prefer cards that are weak to cards like this that kinda just don't funking do anything.

[Sleepy]

It's amusing as another option to boost ATK stats. Also, it might not open up 2 zones at a time but it is versatile enough to give you zones upon revival once it no longer has business in the EMZ. Surely something will be able to be done with that. It could have been worse and have the arrows be up and down. I personally like this down, left combination.

 

The fact the deck is almost entirely "this is also a CyDra" effects, the requirements wouldn't be much of a problem in a CyDra deck, and it itself is also a CyDra.

 

It is not mind-blowing but I think it is solid enough for test. Won't elevate the deck to anything higher in the tiers but it's not really a bad card IMO.

[Black D'Sceptyr]

Why does it require cydra? Otherwise it could have given easy megafleet access to decks like qli or deskbots.

 

I much prefer cards that are weak to cards like this that kinda just don't f***ing do anything.

 

Pretending that Nova doesn't exist beyond being Infinity's footstool is not the best way to go about critiquing a card almost SPECIFICALLY made to go together with it. 

 

And as for a Link-2 that can get to 4200 on its own lonesome, gels with Machine Dupe, helps stack the field and GY for easy Fusion Summons, and is almost insultingly easy to make alongside original CyDra or Core, being called a do-nothing...

 

 

(okay, my apologies for the abrasivness of this post, that was harsh from me. I just got off from arguing over Skyfang's new name and Disk Commander not being worthless cuz now the errata says you gotta wait a turn for an effect-nerves are shot on the Blades of Change Workshop to say the least.)

[Black D'Sceptyr]

It’s terrible.

 

This is just even more trouble for CyDra when megafleet exists. If you need a Link, Qliphort Genius is better.

 

Genius can't beat over Master Peace, get revived by Nova (hence the arrow placements, s'like Double Helix in that regard) or be an extra source of spam with Machine Dupe. 

 

I see this as a decent turn 1 card and a solid turn 2 card for the Archetype, one that can freely make any part of the Cyber Dragon board a big beefy threat. Don't exactly have to jockey with which one's more versatile, but Sieger clearly has its better uses in Cyber Dragons than Genius.

[VCR_CAT]

I would have loved this card for its name if it only required machine materials, purely because (as Giga mentioned) it would give me Megafleet access in any machine deck without having to use Cyber Dragon.

 

It's just... not good. Stats alone on a link 2 aren't really worth it. The markers are worse, as said Genius just has a lot more utility, also

 

 

Genius can't beat over Master Peace, get revived by Nova (hence the arrow placements, s'like Double Helix in that regard) or be an extra source of spam with Machine Dupe. 

 

I see this as a decent turn 1 card and a solid turn 2 card for the Archetype, one that can freely make any part of the Cyber Dragon board a big beefy threat. Don't exactly have to jockey with which one's more versatile, but Sieger clearly has its better uses in Cyber Dragons than Genius.

 

Master Peace isn't relevant anymore. The revive is negligible in a practical situation, and it has no extra utility with Machine Dupe that Genius doesn't as well.

 

There's nothing about this card that's good for turn 1. It offers no protection or disruption during your opponent's turn that will actually mean anything. Attack boosts ala Honest or Honesty Neos only matter if it's from the hand and can be unexpected; being apparent right on the field is just asking to be removed by other effects, which can be done to this with ease.

 

The card just doesn't offer anything different to the deck that isn't already done by other cards to a better degree.

[Black D'Sceptyr]

I would have loved this card for its name if it only required machine materials, purely because (as Giga mentioned) it would give me Megafleet access in any machine deck without having to use Cyber Dragon.

 

It's just... not good. Stats alone on a link 2 aren't really worth it. The markers are worse, as said Genius just has a lot more utility, also

 

 

 

Master Peace isn't relevant anymore. The revive is negligible in a practical situation, and it has no extra utility with Machine Dupe that Genius doesn't as well.

 

There's nothing about this card that's good for turn 1. It offers no protection or disruption during your opponent's turn that will actually mean anything. Attack boosts ala Honest or Honesty Neos only matter if it's from the hand and can be unexpected; being apparent right on the field is just asking to be removed by other effects, which can be done to this with ease.

 

The card just doesn't offer anything different to the deck that isn't already done by other cards to a better degree.

 

Right, I'll happily elaborate. I know my position isn't an easy-to-explain one, and you deserve better from me after my meltdown a post above.

 

That's the point-having a monster that demands outside-the box handling that can just come back with the Xyz that a Cyber Deck can easily bring back and free up another zone on the way to Infinity is amazingly good. Also, I was talking more of this being used to summon more original Cyber Dragons from the Deck, since it doubles as that monster on the field as well, which is so important.

 

The Master Peace thing t'was an example of high ATK monsters, of which there are many that normally don't hit 4200 like this Link-2 monster surprisingly does. (though I will say quickly that Demise Dracos are climbing back up because the other Decks that would have kept it down (namely, SPYRALs and Pend Magicians are on the downtrend, especially a Special Summon reliant Deck such as PendMagicians-wait till Dracos draw up Monarchs Erupt and their playstyle withers on the vine. Cyber Dragons would too, but they're not as reliant on their monster lineup as Pendulums, which usually go 30 or higher on that monster count).

 

Basically, your opponent isn't likely to get over this by battle unless they make something like Lightning, and exclusively deriving effects towards ridding oneself of a measly Link is the standing definition of sub-optimal play for most Decks. Sometimes, disruption is determined by what your opponent does to rid themselves of threats, as much as what the monster does in and of itself. (sides, Cyber Dimension's supposed to carry the Deck in terms of protection-not as well as it should, but this card's Attack jumping essentially allows Nova to have much more utility as a stand-alone boss, reviving and supporting Sieger in equal measure, and replacing itself with End when your opponent tries to killspell everything.

 

Not even Crystal Wing can initially beat over this if you make its ATK gain happen before its arrival (no Level, which really helps in ways Genius wouldn't). Sieger essentially buys you time and builds you advantage.

 

And most disruption doesn't mean anything unless it either A) -3s your opponent for trying to get over one threat, or B) outright locks out entire parts of the game. I say Sieger obstructs the opponent in a healthy way, by providing a bit, easy-to-recur threat

 

In short. Yes, a lot of cards can do each thing Zieger does better, but not everything it does as well as it does. It's a Jack-of-all-trades-yes, a master of none, but better than a master of one. 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Putting this on the field with infinity makes infinity actively worse, because you just made megafleet absolutely free.

 

Yeah, people don't currently run megafleet, but if this (or hell, even just infinity, or bosses like it) were actually particularly good they absolutely would.

 

Yeah, it does a lot of things. But none of those are done well, and very few of those are anything you'd really want or need to do. It isn't a jack of all trades. It's a 7 of clubs. It's... Fine... Sometimes..? But you would much rather have a good card in its place.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Putting this on the field with infinity makes infinity actively worse, because you just made megafleet absolutely free.

 

Yeah, people don't currently run megafleet, but if this (or hell, even just infinity, or bosses like it) were actually particularly good they absolutely would.

 

Yeah, it does a lot of things. But none of those are done well, and very few of those are anything you'd really want or need to do. It isn't a jack of all trades. It's a 7 of clubs. It's... Fine... Sometimes..? But you would much rather have a good card in its place.

You obv summon Infinity at the down arrow >_>

[VCR_CAT]

Right, I'll happily elaborate. I know my position isn't an easy-to-explain one, and you deserve better from me after my meltdown a post above.

 

That's the point-having a monster that demands outside-the box handling that can just come back with the Xyz that a Cyber Deck can easily bring back and free up another zone on the way to Infinity is amazingly good. Also, I was talking more of this being used to summon more original Cyber Dragons from the Deck, since it doubles as that monster on the field as well, which is so important.

 

You're mentioning a lot of "potential plays" without giving any actual hard card names or combos that show how it happens in a practical space, like how and why you're putting in the grave and what the field looks like, just a vague "But you COULD do this!"

 

Also how are you "summoning more original Cyber Dragons from the deck" using this card. How are you doing this? That's not how this card, or Machine Dupe, work.

 

 

 

 

Basically, your opponent isn't likely to get over this by battle unless they make something like Lightning, and exclusively deriving effects towards ridding oneself of a measly Link is the standing definition of sub-optimal play for most Decks. Sometimes, disruption is determined by what your opponent does to rid themselves of threats, as much as what the monster does in and of itself. (sides, Cyber Dimension's supposed to carry the Deck in terms of protection-not as well as it should, but this card's Attack jumping essentially allows Nova to have much more utility as a stand-alone boss, reviving and supporting Sieger in equal measure, and replacing itself with End when your opponent tries to killspell everything.

 

Infinity with even just pseudo-battle-protection isn't very good anymore. Nevermind that you're setting yourself up to be Megafleeted (Winter, Megafleet's material is a Cyber Dragon monster, so it can still be summoned), there's the distinct fact that no deck worth its salt these days bottlenecks very hard in its turn. A single negation is a drop in the bucket, and there's enough easy non-battle removal that a 2100 quickplay boost just doesn't mean anything. If it was a surprise from the hand from Honest, then maybe? But the opponent can see it, and they can, and will, play around it. It's a non-issue, and makes for a laughably weak turn-1 field.

 

 

 

Not even Crystal Wing can initially beat over this if you make its ATK gain happen before its arrival (no Level, which really helps in ways Genius wouldn't). Sieger essentially buys you time and builds you advantage.

 

That's not how that works. Sieger's boost is in the battlephase. They're not summoning Crystal Wing during the Battlephase-- it's either before or after, and Crystal Wing can still negate that boost. Sieger doesn't do anything there.

 

Also:

 

 

(namely, SPYRALs and Pend Magicians are on the downtrend, especially a Special Summon reliant Deck such as PendMagicians-wait till Dracos draw up Monarchs Erupt and their playstyle withers on the vine. Cyber Dragons would too, but they're not as reliant on their monster lineup as Pendulums, which usually go 30 or higher on that monster count).

 

Really incorrect meta analysis. Pendulum Magicians sit king in tier 1 by a wide margin. SPYRALs have dropped off the map. Dracos are in tier-2, but whether they go up or not depends entirely on cards released and the banlist, but they'd need to be insanely lucky to go anywhere but down at this point.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Genius can't beat over Master Peace, get revived by Nova (hence the arrow placements, s'like Double Helix in that regard) or be an extra source of spam with Machine Dupe. 

 

I see this as a decent turn 1 card and a solid turn 2 card for the Archetype, one that can freely make any part of the Cyber Dragon board a big beefy threat. Don't exactly have to jockey with which one's more versatile, but Sieger clearly has its better uses in Cyber Dragons than Genius.

I totally forgot that Nova can revive Cydra...WOW

 

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This comes in a special rarity they're making to celebrate the 20th anniversary