Restructuring the Mod Team

[Phantom Roxas]

1. Soon my child.

Can we get a solid date for this? It seems that absolutely no one is disputing this or begging for Night to be kept on the team, and it seems that we actually do have a consensus that he should be removed from the team. If that's the case, then just get it over with already.

[Blake]

Can we get a solid date for this? It seems that absolutely no one is disputing this or begging for Night to be kept on the team, and it seems that we actually do have a consensus that he should be removed from the team. If that's the case, then just get it over with already.

He said he would resign around 3 weeks after the election ended, once he returned from abroad. Sakura told him to hold off because said potential third Super Mod said no. So getting the setup of the team decided is actually related to that.

 

Nothing was said in an attempt to give him time to officially resign, but then it was put off and we only learned of that recently.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I take issue with Dad being described as "BBC"

 

Me thinks there has been unethical coordination between Krow and Dad to push said narrative

[Flame Dragon]

Can we get a solid date for this? It seems that absolutely no one is disputing this or begging for Night to be kept on the team, and it seems that we actually do have a consensus that he should be removed from the team. If that's the case, then just get it over with already.

Based on his last post on the forum he is planning to step down and personally I'd rather he leave on his own terms than us kicking him out.

 

And since I probably should address this

Flame Dragon: I like you, I really do, but you're not on. I mean, you are, but you aren't HERE. In these threads, talking to us. You come in now and then with a comment and two, and that's about it. If you're busy, then seriously, focus on your life. It's more important than this forum. 

 

I know most people want you as head mod, and I probably would be okay with that. I'm doing you more so out of fairness, and if you are becoming a head mod, you have even more scrutiny needed.

The forum has been a lot more relaxed this year so far compared to last so I've kind of been letting things play out as they will. As Cow said, if something important comes up for me to weigh in on I do, but things aren't really exploding atm.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Alright, I'm just going to post about the things I have the strongest opinions on. These are going to be some Strongly Worded Opinions so if you're the kind of person to have a knee jerk negative response to decisive action, you'd probably be better off not reading this unless you're on the mod team.

 

Night should go, that's a given. If you're going to put it off in the future, don't. Don't let it solve itself.

 

Zai and Flame Dragon are both unfortunate cases, although for entirely different reasons.

 

Zai is unfortunate because he does seem like a perfectly agreeable person. However, I've seen no indication that his judgment and decision making comes from himself rather than the opinions of others. I don't see the slightest bit of confidence or independent thought coming from him as a mod and it really looks like all his attempts to do things aren't genuine attempts to better the site, and are instead done to convince himself (and not the userbase) of his merit. If this is true, I'd like to tell you something, Zai.

 

@@BANZAI!!!!

 

Nobody (smart) buys the idea that you have merit as a mod, so you should stop fooling yourself. You'll be a happier person if you stop trying to prove yourself, and stop looking for reasons as to why you should be on the mod team. It's not worth staying on if you don't legitimately believe that you have what it takes to improve the site. You're not a bad person, and while I don't know if you think this personally, it doesn't reflect poorly on you to know when to call it quits. Knowing when you're in over your head is a valuable skill to have and people will look upon you with far more respect for acknowledging it.

 

Flame Dragon is unfortunate because he's the only one on the mod team close to being fit to lead it (who hasn't turned it down), but he's by no means enough. He's a pillar of consistency and reliability with good enough judgment, and perfectly capable of picking up the pieces in case everything falls apart by virtue of his seniority alone. He shouldn't be expected to do anything else or make strong decisions because he's perfectly fine where he is now. However, this does mean that we need another lead mod with significantly more drive and motivation, even if it's someone who isn't on the mod team right now. The team needs to move quicker and make stronger decisions, and having someone who's main merit is reliability have the final say almost always slows down necessary change.

 

And Sakura... hoo boy.

 

Sakura shouldn't even be a mod, let alone a super. His judgment is consistently below average, he's set in his ways and refuses to change, he's terrible at communicating with the user base, and nothing he says or does carries any measure of authority or confidence. He's absolutely holding the site back and more internal pressure needs to be placed on him to step down.

 

Any mod that doesn't back his demotion- if not outright removal- needs to step down themselves. It displays a critical lack of judgment and drive that's unacceptable in a strong mod team.

 

If you feel like you can't do anything about it, you're wrong. There's always something you can do, although I won't go into detail here because it works better if you don't announce it.

 

To the mods that are afraid to argue due to a fear of removal, let me reassure you on something:

 

He's damaging the site far more than you could hope to improve it. His removal is far more important than your position as a mod, and if you don't see or accept that, you shouldn't be one. Full stop. If someone can show me Sakura's merit as a mod beyond a fear of change, then by all means, do so. I'd love to have a better opinion on the team than I do now. But everything I can see leads me to believe that nothing good could come from him sticking around.

 

I have no qualms with the rest of the team. Even the ones who's input I can't really see are both inoffensive and active enough to stay around for now.

[The Warden]

@@Sunshine Jesse : While I disagree with the need for Sakura to step down completely (they do a good enough job in CC), I do agree with your feeling of them no longer being a super, due to their habit of repeating past mistakes ad nauseum, thus presenting behaviour unbecoming of a super mod.

[Sunshine Jesse]

@@Sunshine Jesse : While I disagree with the need for Sakura to step down completely (they do a good enough job in CC), I do agree with your feeling of them no longer being a super, due to their habit of repeating past mistakes ad nauseum, thus presenting behaviour unbecoming of a super mod.

I have a question for you.

 

If you hire someone to do a job, they do it acceptably, but they sheet up the whole office every other day and make everyone's job harder, would you keep that employee around?

 

Because Sakura is that employee.

 

He comes into work every day, does his job about as well as any other entry-level worker, and then proceeds to "accidentally" knock over everything, spills coffee everywhere, and bastards at the customers whenever he's doing literally anything other than what he was hired for, and sometimes even when he is.

[Phantom Roxas]

Let's not forget that in the complaints thread, other mods were genuinely trying to listen to complaints. Sure, there were some disagreements here and there, but the majority of the team showed honest attempts at discussion, and helping members through their issues.

 

Then Sakura slipped up and dismissed some of those concerns by saying they're just from one person.

 

I'm sympathetic to the idea that Sakura wants to be better and would appreciate other members to put in the same effort. Unfortunately, this comes across as the same false issue I've seen before: "I would like you to improve, and would love if we both did our best, but I'm only saying that because I have no actual intention of improving myself, and am just putting all of the responsibility solely on you."

 

I think the disagreement is that, while Sakura should definitely be demoted, we don't know if he should be demoted to a regular mod, or kicked off the team entirely. Following what was offered in similar examples (I say "offered" because the extreme demotion was handed down anyway), demote Sakura to a regular mod - or even a Junior Moderator if deemed necessary - and put him through a trial period. If he passes the trial period, cool, he can stay on the team, he just won't be a Super. If he fails, he's off the team.

 

The bare minimum is that Sakura is not a Super, no matter what. Staying on the team at all is up to him.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Catching up on stuff I missed and will be gone in a few hours but popping in to say that if there's not already one by tomorrow I'll be sure to make a discussion about the Sakura stuff in the mod forum to make sure it gets the attention it deserves, given how many seem to be in agreement about it.

[Phantom Roxas]

Catching up on stuff I missed and will be gone in a few hours but popping in to say that if there's not already one by tomorrow I'll be sure to make a discussion about the Sakura stuff in the mod forum to make sure it gets the attention it deserves, given how many seem to be in agreement about it.

 

I appreciate it. Like with the Complaints thread, I don't want this thread to be all about whether or not Sakura, so I'll wait until we hear the results of that thread before continuing with that.

[Tormented]

Just to keep people updated, a thread has been made and staff discussion will begin. You will be updated when we have come to a conclusion on all points raised.

 

Appreciate the feedback all.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I'm looking forward to the results.

 

Don't disappoint me, team.

[mitchermitcher]

btw, purposely throwing sheet here but on the topic of sakura being on leave for 2-3 weeks. it's probably quite natural to assume any demotion he might get would be delayed until he comes back. it would be incredibly convenient if by the time he comes back nothing happens because the complaints are several weeks old and the fire's already died down, js. assuming he's due for a demotion at all.

 

took me a while but i realized this is the wrong topic for it, move this post plz

[Phantom Roxas]

btw, purposely throwing sheet here but on the topic of sakura being on leave for 2-3 weeks. it's probably quite natural to assume any demotion he might get would be delayed until he comes back. it would be incredibly convenient if by the time he comes back nothing happens because the complaints are several weeks old and the fire's already died down, js. assuming he's due for a demotion at all.

 

took me a while but i realized this is the wrong topic for it, move this post plz

 

Yeah, the timing of his leave is really suspicious. It just seems like he's laying low for now until this matter is resolved. Is he taking the time to improve himself? Will he be put in a trial period upon his return?

 

If this is unrelated, fine, but the comment about "personality issues on my end that must be addressed" leads me to believe that this is part of him being tested.

[Blake]

His leaving is of his own volition. Unless he, himself, intends to use it as an argument, the team will not.

 

That said, it is unlikely he will be bumped down from Super Moderator to Moderator in the meantime, in the interest of fairness.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

YCM has a bad habit of burying things and letting time do their dirty work

 

Ex. Aix called for Night's resignation more than a year ago

[Blake]

YCM has a bad habit of burying things and letting time do their dirty work

 

Ex. Aix called for Night's resignation more than a year ago

Which has been brought up. I suggested the same in the mod forum either just before or just after Aix (I believe just before).

 

Evilfusion bumped him down to normal Moderator. He showed up within a day to get his position back.

 

This was covered pre-Election.

[Sunshine Jesse]

His leaving is of his own volition. Unless he, himself, intends to use it as an argument, the team will not.

 

That said, it is unlikely he will be bumped down from Super Moderator to Moderator in the meantime, in the interest of fairness.

Fairness to who? The guy who treats us with none and holds us back at every turn?

 

Sorry, I don't buy it. "Fairness" is a luxury that Sakura hasn't earned. Fairness is something reserved for people who actually hold themselves to a standard.

 

If he can't deal with being held accountable in the midst of a stressful time in his life, whether the idea was his own or someone else's, then he clearly has no intention of improving. It's just beating around the bush and a waste of everyone's time. His flaws have been made apparent, and we've been given no reason to think they'll improve as long as he's still a mod and is given any hope that things will be okay.

 

You guys can give him a break and be merciful all you want, but I have absolutely no intention of respecting that mercy, and neither should anyone else.

 

The rest of YCM can bury this, but I'm absolutely not letting up.

[Simping For Hina]

Fairness to the mods, per title, not the members themselves. Like Night, we are letting him hold the title until he comes to make an announcement. Smear was the same way, got demoted when he spoke openly about it. As much as I have my disdain toward how Sakura operates, they deserve the right to speak about them getting demoted and leave with a public notion.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Fairness to the mods, per title, not the members themselves. Like Night, we are letting him hold the title until he comes to make an announcement. Smear was the same way, got demoted when he spoke openly about it. As much as I have my disdain toward how Sakura operates, they deserve the right to speak about them getting demoted and leave with a public notion.

It's the right of the mod team to give him that leeway. From the perspective of the mod team, I actually do believe that this is the correct decision. They function on a different set of standards than I do and I commend them for doing so.

 

But it's not the obligation of the user base to share that sentiment, nor is it pragmatic. I'm not part of the collective decision making authority and I'm not going to act like I am. I'm not going to pretend that I have responsibility that has yet to be given to me.

 

We shouldn't let this tension subside. A break for Sakura shouldn't be a break for anyone else. We need to be ready to make the correct decision when he gets back from the same perspective we see him through now.

[Phantom Roxas]

Which has been brought up. I suggested the same in the mod forum either just before or just after Aix (I believe just before).

 

Evilfusion bumped him down to normal Moderator. He showed up within a day to get his position back.

 

This was covered pre-Election.

 

Then Sakura can be bumped down to normal moderator while he's gone, especially since there are a few people who want Sakura off the team entirely, so quite frankly, minimizing the level of his demotion is already pretty fair to him, all things considered. The team has shown in the past that they are willing to demote a mod to a lower status before a final decision is implemented, and absolutely nothing anyone else says is going to change their mind, because that decision has already been decided anyway. Why hold back now, just for Sakura?

 

If Sakura would get demoted a regular mod, do it already. Otherwise this is exactly as Winter said, and you're just going to bury this and let time do your dirty work.

[Yui]

Posting mostly to agree with most of the above. @, @@Sunshine Jesse, and @ in particular. We've had plenty of instances already where Sakura has made some massive mistake, said "I am aware of this mistake and will actively work to improve; this cannot happen again because of my standards as a moderator" ...only for precisely funking that to happen again a month or two later. He's locked threads when being called out for his inability to properly moderate in the past rather than discuss his shortcomings or even attempt to defend himself, makes zero effort to improve his shoddy-at-best relationships with the memberbase (him being the only mod that uses private mode is a small indicator of this, even if we have no rule against it), and - whether it's for lack of trying or not - is very much still the same problem mod the team has had all this time.

 

By no means should he still be a super moderator, if even a mod at all. I'm not pushing to have him removed from the team entirely (not yet anyway), but I'll say it now and I'll say it again once he's back so that, if he is trying to just sweep this under the rug by disappearing, he doesn't get to: Something has to be done.

 

I'd also suggest kicking Night if too long a time (the rest of the month?) passes without him showing up to do it himself. For all we know, he may well be purposely not logging on so that he can't handle it himself, therefore letting him keep his position of power even though he doesn't do anything with it. That makes him even worse for the job than Sakura.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Meh. Even people I really don't like, ie Roxas, I think shouldn't and didn't have the rug pulled from under them when they weren't around. That's just rude. I'm no fan of Sakura, but show him the same dignity the rest of you would want. 

 

My bigger problem is with Night. "Coming back 2 days later and getting your position back" is kinda  bullshit thing to happen...it kinda means Evil demoting him was in "name only" and I'm not ok with that kinda psyop

[Phantom Roxas]

Meh. Even people I really don't like, ie Roxas, I think shouldn't and didn't have the rug pulled from under them when they weren't around. That's just rude. I'm no fan of Sakura, but show him the same dignity the rest of you would want. 

 

My bigger problem is with Night. "Coming back 2 days later and getting your position back" is kinda  bullshit thing to happen...it kinda means Evil demoting him was in "name only" and I'm not ok with that kinda psyop

 

Winter, that was completely unnecessary.

[Blake]

Then Sakura can be bumped down to normal moderator while he's gone, especially since there are a few people who want Sakura off the team entirely, so quite frankly, minimizing the level of his demotion is already pretty fair to him, all things considered. The team has shown in the past that they are willing to demote a mod to a lower status before a final decision is implemented, and absolutely nothing anyone else says is going to change their mind, because that decision has already been decided anyway. Why hold back now, just for Sakura?

 

If Sakura would get demoted a regular mod, do it already. Otherwise this is exactly as Winter said, and you're just going to bury this and let time do your dirty work.

As your leader, I promise not to let that happen!

 

I've already laid out my problems with the handling of Sakura and Zai over time in the mod forum. I don't feel it is appropriate to do so publicly, at this time, but there are issues... And one of them I pointed out is the tendency to let things simmer down and then ignore them.

 

The only thing I will say is that a moderator(s) admitted there was no argument for keeping Zai back in November. To me, while I was not a moderator. Regardless of the current situation or any reason(s) to keep him at this time, this issue, and many others, need to be tackled, as I alluded to in the "Zai." thread in C&S.

 

There are now mods and members alike, from different walks, in agreement. The site has come to a point where change is needed and accepted by most people.

 

I will do my absolute best to not let these issues fall by the wayside... But I ask that you guys also make sure they don't. People speaking up when there is an issue is absolutely vital, and, even if you simply come to me, Cow, Dad, whoever in PM, do it. Staying silent helps no one, and I, among others, will work towards removing the stigma towards members' concerns.

 

As a side note, we are in talks of adding a Moderator. That person is still considering their decision, but there will be a public thread discussing it before any promotion happens.