Umm... about CC...

[Icy]

Maybe I'm just not here anywhere near enough to understand whatever "situation there once was" but since this is comments and suggestions. And if that is the thing, someone please tell me.

 

I do have a few complaints though that I do want to get out for once.

 

• Why is the rules threads so bloated with technicalities? I can't imagine any newbie would want to post there with it so grossly blown over proportion. Apply "at the mods discretion" for anything that might come up. As is it looks just terrible and quite honestly insulting to anyone who tries to read it.
• Why are there such things as :

1. Card Casuals FAQ (that could be placed in post #2 of the rules thread- I imagine this is in the other sections as well)
2. Card Reviews which are at the users discretion NOT YOURS, open discussion don't force it (not that the thread seems used)
3. Card Planning?! What horse did you jump off of to think this was a good idea? Let them talk about it in their own thread as a separate discussion linked to the card(s). Encourage posting not limit it.
4. So many +1 posts in the stickies. WHY. Temporary sticky to talk, unsticky then edit the post to include.

• Design Guide Threads... WHAT?! WHY?! There is no good or wrong way to make anything. Expressing an idea has no standard except the ones we make ourselves.
• Why so many stickies? I never had more than 3 (technically 1- The Rules and some sections didnt even have that) + bonus TEMPORARY threads for good reasons. The cards are the single most important thing. Not you.

 

And above all else, why is everything about CC trying to curb the way you think instead of everyone else? I know I was hardheaded at times but I listened (lord knows I fought against the AC and all that), but I walk in there and it feels like an absentminded dictatorship. From the Large Texts at the top (most of its not even necessary if at all) to the bloated texts in the threads are made to the threads themselves. 

 

Guthix didnt die for this...

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Rag didn't die for this either. But it's Sakura's turf. Any concerns should go to him

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

This is interesting because we're actually in the, albeit slow, process of removing/editing/merging stickies in each section.

I hadn't thought about these much cause I am no expert of the section but it is interesting points.

Will wait to see what Sakura says though since he knows it better than I.

But thanks for your thoughts either way, it helps me get some insight and such.

[Icy]

Rag didn't die for this either. But it's Sakura's turf. Any concerns should go to him

 

That's an inherent fallacy. CC is everyone's turf. The mod is there to make sure it stays that way not the other way around. Also not talking about Rag.

[Icy]

This is interesting because we're actually in the, albeit slow, process of removing/editing/merging stickies in each section.

I hadn't thought about these much cause I am no expert of the section but it is interesting points.

Will wait to see what Sakura says though since he knows it better than I.

But thanks for your thoughts either way, it helps me get some insight and such.

 

 

What part is slow? Literally CLIPPINGS. It can be done in less than 30mins.

[Dova]

As an Advanced boi, here's my two cents on some of your points.
 

Why is the rules threads so bloated with technicalities? I can't imagine any newbie would want to post there with it so grossly blown over proportion. Apply "at the mods discretion" for anything that might come up. As is it looks just terrible and quite honestly insulting to anyone who tries to read it.

 
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are simply saying to cut down on the technicalities of each rule. I do think there should be precedents there to clear up most situations, however I think that we should have a rules summary for people to look at, and details on each one if a user things they might be straying too close to the line. How is it insulting to someone who reads it?
 

Card Reviews which are at the users discretion NOT YOURS, open discussion don't force it (not that the thread seems used)

 
...what? The whole point of that thread is to reward users who review cards posted in that thread if they want to review them. And I'm not just talking about the redemption thread, as the Casual Cards Review Thread says this:
 
You post a link to your set and ask for a review. One of the members here will look at it + CnC it properly. For reviewing a member's thread, those who have followed the section rules while CnCing (followed the Advanced Clause) will receive some form of an award; possibly a like and some point prizes. Members who review several threads may be eligible for more significant rewards; more on this later as things get developed.
 
This of course was not really developed, and seems to basically boil down to the Redemption thread, so it can be removed anyway, perhaps.
 

Card Planning?! What horse did you jump off of to think this was a good idea? Let them talk about it in their own thread as a separate discussion linked to the card(s). Encourage posting not limit it.

 
So...are you saying you should be allowed to post threads if you only have an idea of what you want to do, and not actual cards?
 

Design Guide Threads... WHAT?! WHY?! There is no good or wrong way to make anything. Expressing an idea has no standard except the ones we make ourselves.

 
...there's nothing really new to say here. You want Casual to have no standards, and just post whatever you want? To be honest, I am somewhat for that, even if I don't like the idea of no standards on what you can post in response to a card/set of cards.

 

At the very least, this would force all the good card makers to come to Advanced for proper critique >:D

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, I find the line between Casual and Advanced very blurred, and even if we leave Casual as the way it is, I think there definitely should be a forum/sub-form for people to post their cards without any form of precedent for good or bad design. If they want to make overpowered cards that aren't interesting to play, play against, or just in and of themselves, let them.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be honest, no one really critiques in Casual, even with the post requirement dropped to just 10-15 words that have something to do with the card in question; not necessarily card design like it was in the past. 

 

So let's see.

 

Rule threads

 

Yes, both of them are text walls with specifics about what is permissible in the area. However, specifics are mentioned so you know what the expectations are and there's no misunderstanding over it. 

 

The format thing for Casual is there because of Master Rule 4 (and is a carryover from Advanced getting the same treatment). You should already be aware of Link Monsters since TCG's had them for 2-3 sets now. I need to note it because otherwise, members who design for ARC-V format but don't note it will get critiqued on its interactions in Link format. (There is also the TCG/OCG thing, but honestly, most new members are TCG anyway)

 

I already trimmed the Casual one from 20 rules to about 15-16/ish. Advanced will get the same thing and is in progress. Most of the explanations are common sense things.

 

[divider]

 

Parts are common sense things, like post your effect underneath so we can read stuff. Don't assume that everyone has strong vision to read directly off card or on mobile; and definitely don't expect us to read 6-8 lines on your card without posting underneath.

 

Card reviews

 

CC has a lack of activity in there nowadays; both Casual and Advanced. The review threads in both areas were intended to be an area where they could request someone to look over things. 

 

The redemption part is where I have discretion over it, but honestly, as long as you say what needs to be done, you get full points. Design mentality is subjective, and I'm not going to penalize someone for mentioning certain aspects that I don't agree with.

 

Honestly, no one really uses the Casual one, but given the shift from design-oriented to more free compliment type, I suppose it is not needed as much. However, there are those users who would like proper reviews, despite the lessened standards.

 

Card planning

 

This was around since 2014 (and you were around somewhat while it existed). Mostly because newer (and less skilled) members wanted it as general help. 

 

It is not wrong for users to get suggestions on how to make something before going through, nor is it wrong for members to only post if they have an idea and not something set in stone. Experimental gets a lot of the latter. 

 

tl;dr, nothing is stopping you from just posting your stuff directly without going to that thread first. It's only there as an idea bin at this point.

 

Rulebook/sticky stuff

 

(None of the other sections have their FAQs in the rule thread. I think RPs is still separate.)

 

There are a ton of stickies in CC, and I am aware of that. 

 

As mentioned, I am considering removing that Planning Thread if it isn't used too much. Other things like the guides (the 2014 model needs to be unstickied because it was written after I took over and pushed the quality level up.)

 

Casual

• The section rules need to remain pinned without question
• Casual Review and the Redemption thread are somewhat iffy, but they should be around so you can cash in posting. IDK, given the new changes, they can be removed. (Or leave the latter for those who want to get rewarded for proper reviewing)
• Already know about the previous design guide.
• FAQs should remain their own thread, so members can ask about certain things that I didn't cover in there or the rulebook.

Advanced

• Section rules need to stay pinned, because members don't see them in the announcements; at least from that last poll we took.
• Design thread is technically outdated, but seriously, you do have to come in here with a good design mentality and be mindful of interactions. 
• Advanced Review thread was intended for BOTH singles and multiples, though the set one is already covered in Multiples by Dova's one.
• Economy thread needs to stay for awarding members. Again though, I just care if you said everything you needed to, backed up your opinion and were civil in doing so. 
• The OCG thread is somewhat in limbo; yes, it is important that you can write proper grammar so we know what it does. (I haven't forgotten Rag making these corrections in the past).
  • We're not going to bite your ass for being slightly off because Konami changes their wording every so often, or you didn't capitalize a word or something. If you use proper grammar that exists in YGO (even if you mix series 9 and 10 wording). The AGM's style is its own exception, so I won't talk about it. 
  • I could move it to Q&A, but I'd like for that area to be for site related questions in general.

Duel Portal

 

All of the stickies need to remain, though to be fair, nearly all of the activity has gone to the DP Discord (in which case, I have no control over the quality of posting and discussions there). 

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, I find the line between Casual and Advanced very blurred, and even if we leave Casual as the way it is, I think there definitely should be a forum/sub-form for people to post their cards without any form of precedent for good or bad design. If they want to make overpowered cards that aren't interesting to play, play against, or just in and of themselves, let them.

 

There is technically Joke Cards for extremely broken stuff or things that didn't require much thought at all to make. I could give that forum post count, but I do not believe that posting spam cards and then shitposting in there for replies should be rewarded. 

 

To be fair, Casual technically doesn't have a good/bad design thing, outside of not violating the 5000 ATK/DEF max printed stats and not making it obvious that it's busted. Yeah, you will still get some Advanced-level critique at times, but that's a carryover from Casual being bound by similar rules to Advanced since late 2014 - early 2015.

 

If you wanted to post a 4000 ATK/DEF vanilla, then sure, do it in regular Casual.

 

I originally had an idea that would let users post without caring about reviews, but that got scrapped because it'd add more things to remember. 

 

For general reference to why Casual was bound by similar design standards, here's some history.

 

Pop Culture (as Casual was known as / used for at the time) had a mixture of card designers who actually designed properly, but because of the influx of "over 9000 ATK/DEF Goku" cards or whatnot, those of you who designed good PC cards weren't given much thought. And yes, the section was left to rot in the corner during 2013-2014.

 

When I took over as CC mod along with Striker* and Saber/Zauls in 2014, one of the plans for PC was to up the design level and point out things that should be avoided. Actually make Pop Culture a good section to make cards in and let members in there be recognized for their work, as opposed to being grouped with the "questionable" ones.

 

Suggestion at the end of the year was to just make Pop Culture a section for general design, and permit PC stuff into Advanced (or Realistic at the time), which was done. The PC guide was then rewritten to just incorporate more general things.

 

(At the time, Casual was also a stepping stone into Advanced to an extent; get an idea of what to expect here before moving on for newer members if they wanted to go on.)

 

 

* This was only for a short time, as he resigned a few months afterwards.

 

WHY ARE YOU FORCING STANDARDS!

 

Like I've noted beforehand, there has to be some standard of posting or else CC turns into a spamhole and no one gets appropriate comments. While the atmosphere of Casual is supposed to be more cordial than Advanced, no standards will be bad for the area.

 

You really only need to write 10-15 words about your thoughts on the card; compliments, criticism, etc; that's it. That should not be hard, and is easily done if you can put in a small amount of time. This isn't Facebook/Twitter/Discord/status bar where you can one word post. 

 

====

 

Advanced Clause exists so we don't get another episode of Rag in the section. A lot of the rulebook / AC are partial carryovers from when Black/Koko ran the section, just that they have been modified over time to make it easier to acclimate without sacrificing quality. The design guide in Advanced is outdated and can be removed, since it is subjective and parts of it have been broken long ago already.

 

The design notes for Advanced are required so you can show us that you did think it through, and not just throw in a random card without planning. It also serves the purpose of making it easier for us to help you make changes that fit your intended design. That being said, you are more than welcome to spoiler tag it (though I probably will make it mandatory, so those who don't want to get spoiled can review it without having to see it). Think of your cards as an essay / main points, and the explanation as some supporting evidence that backs your claim. I don't want you to write a literal essay, but just 1-2 sentences that summarizes stuff. You may write more if you feel the need to, however keep it short.

 

[Also, this was originally Black's idea, though I'm the one who put it into application after looking it over. I believe I told you this the last time you PM'd me about this.]

 

=====

 

Custom Cards should be a place where members can improve, get critique and so forth. This is moreso on Advanced, hence the higher standards. Casual can afford to drop some of it, but you must be open to comments. While I have not seen this recently, there have been users in the past who were stubborn about it and they needed to be dealt with accordingly. (Moreso on not listening to comments.)

 

Ultimately, I would like Casual to be open to all members, but there needs to be a line for members who do want adequate comments and those who want to be more freer on design. A separate area could be arranged (or just revamp the Joke Card area for this), but I'll need to look into it (and figure out rules so it doesn't get too out of hand). 

 

 

So yes, I did read this thread and the comments in the other one.

 

(Mind you, I spent 2 hours typing this [with gaps])

[Icy]

First off I will get to proper replies when my internet issues are resolved. Having to type everything I need to from mobile is insane and not going to happen unless there is an easier way.

 

Secondly I misinterpreted the idea of a review thread and I have actually stickied those myself in the past by people who were extremely knowledgeable at the game and active in custom cards. So not a bad idea but it appears grossly underused.

 

Is the redemption thread even working? Doesnt look like it. Dead replies everywhere. Not insulting on this one or looking down. I can't fault an attempt.

 

And who designs cards made for competitive use without thinking? Nevermind posting the reasoning behind the card still skews it towards the posters bias. I doubt you want that. You want them talking about what they saw it in not the creator.

 

And... I did not say you were forcing standards, Sakura. Do not mince or skew my statement or words. I said you [appeared] the be skewing the section towards your ideals.

 

Standards and manipulation are two very different things.