[Discussion] The Value of Points

[Dad]

Moderator point values are highly skewed.  The mod forum credits posts with way too many points at once, causing a massive tip of scale.  At the same time, points have little to no use and are often only given away in contests.  So what value do they hold?  What can they be used for?  Can we create more uses for points?

 

We can certainly create more uses for points, but we must first establish where the member base stands as a whole when it comes to points.  You mostly use them for your custom member groups and changes to those groups.  What else would you like to see them used for?  Let's discuss the value of points.

[Mr. Best Male 2008]

YCM points just as useless as Diablo 2 gold.

 

Hold the funk up while I go make ycmjsp.com

[Chaosix]

Honestly, the only use of points I can think of, as they are now, is to prevent new and spam accounts from getting too much power/utilities.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

We can, but first of all, we need to fix the thing with mods.

 

Think of it like currency, if you over inflate the money supply, you get a situation like pre-Nazi Germany where money is worth less than the paper it's printed on. Outside of the mods, nobody has stupid levels of points, so just fix mod forum and make people pay for things

 

[Dad]

We can, but first of all, we need to fix the thing with mods.

 

Think of it like currency, if you over inflate the money supply, you get a situation like pre-Nazi Germany where money is worth less than the paper it's printed on. Outside of the mods, nobody has stupid levels of points, so just fix mod forum and make people pay for things

 

 

We're actually changing the post value of points in the Mod Forum back to normal.  This is already in progress.

[Mr. Best Male 2008]

Can I use my points to buy over mods.

 

Hey Dad. Don't check misc and I'll give you 5000 YCM dollars.

[Yui]

While lowering the point rewards in the mod forum is a good start in making points matter again and dealing with point inflation, that still leaves the issue of where current and former mods are in terms of having tons of points or not. If we're going to try reigning in mod points, I'd suggest going over who is or used to be a mod, and cutting their points down to a predetermined amount. I don't know what the amount in question should be, but numbers I played with in my head are 500,000 and a million. Even that might be a bit too much though.

[Dad]

Can I use my points to buy over mods.

 

Hey Dad. Don't check misc and I'll give you 5000 YCM dollars.

 

If you're not gonna contribute, leave the thread.

 

While lowering the point rewards in the mod forum is a good start in making points matter again and dealing with point inflation, that still leaves the issue of where current and former mods are in terms of having tons of points or not. If we're going to try reigning in mod points, I'd suggest going over who is or used to be a mod, and cutting their points down to a predetermined amount. I don't know what the amount in question should be, but numbers I played with in my head are 500,000 and a million. Even that might be a bit too much though.

 

The thing about moderator points specifically is that they're worthless because they can just be manually generated.  I think removing former moderator's points is a good start but I can't speak for everyone.  And for long time moderators (such as Sakura and Flame) their points (while inflated) were earned.  I think perhaps we'd end up having to cut all our own points as well.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

My thought for mod/former mod is we could remove the "Millions" part, cause iirc we get 1 Mil per post in mod forum. So like Yui would still have 400K left

 

Though I'm unsure cause I don't think I had 960K before posting in mod forum....

Yeah no nvm it's not 1 Mil

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

I looked at the Economy thread, and think it's unfair to YCM that Custom Cards is the most rewarding part of the site when it comes to points. You can change your name for posting thrice in Custom Cards, but if you're a TCG peep? 300 threads. Not posts. Threads. This doesn't account for natural points awarded for posts, but the comparison is still insane. Would like to see the other places buffed than Custom Cards nerfed though, since I do believe that these purchasable assets should be easy to earn. Might explain better later; I'm fighting a boss in an MMO atm.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

At the moment, I have already reduced the values obtained in the mod forum to standard values for the rest of the site. So, 25 for making a thread and 10 if you reply / someone replies to your stuff. 

 

If you guys look at the Shop, there is a Lottery button but it's currently busted. Trying to see if Tormented can fix it, but if it can be repaired, you have another use for your points (or least to spend them in larger quantities).

 

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Back in the old days, points could be used to pay for requests in the Graphic Shops area (or at the time, pay for access to render galleries). Of course, this was when we still had the 5 points per thread / 1 per reply thing. IIRC 20,000 old YCM points for full access to Yin's YGO one would roughly equate to probably 1-2 million right about now. 

=====

 

As for CC having the redemption / point thing, that was mostly to encourage people to actually post and get rewarded for your effort, given the inactivity of the section. At present, no one's really used either of them (the general ones or contest redemption), so... Also because CC is / supposed to be the main draw of the site, given the name.

 

For the other areas like TCG, Fanfics/Roleplaying and so forth, you'd have to talk to the other mods about it pertaining to rewarding activity.

• For Intros, I could probably give brand new members who make intro and stick around for a week or so a little bonus for coming here.
  • You know, because our new member retention rate isn't really good, and we'd like to keep fresh blood here for the long run.
  • There are other factors that contribute to them not sticking around that are beyond our control, but that's saved for another discussion.
• Broken could try to work out something for his area (and guess Flame if Other TCG can pull up something in there).
  • Probably reward you guys for having quality discussions in there or something (i.e. give good critique on a user's Deck that helps them)
• Aix had a redemption thing for RPs at the time, but think that was dropped later.
  • IDK if Zai would be willing to re-implement this for RP to spur activity in there. Might also be good for Fanfics. 
• Maybe incentives to post stuff in Showcase and all, but that'll have to be determined later.
• Not sure what could be done for the Multimedia areas in terms of points.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I looked at the Economy thread, and think it's unfair to YCM that Custom Cards is the most rewarding part of the site when it comes to points. You can change your name for posting thrice in Custom Cards, but if you're a TCG peep? 300 threads. Not posts. Threads. This doesn't account for natural points awarded for posts, but the comparison is still insane. Would like to see the other places buffed than Custom Cards nerfed though, since I do believe that these purchasable assets should be easy to earn. Might explain better later; I'm fighting a boss in an MMO atm.

Not quite true, everytime someone comments on your thread in TCG you get pts

 

That's how I racked up

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Not quite true, everytime someone comments on your thread in TCG you get pts

 

That's how I racked up

Would you say it's more or less equal to 1000/post that CC has? This also means the Economy thread is in need of updates.

 

Edit: This also favors threads over points, and I think both should be rewarding in all sections. I think CC has the same thing but backwards?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be more precise, you get 10 points for every post that someone makes in your thread. During leak times, the amounts add up by collective bulk. 

 

But what ABC is referring to is that I technically have a redemption system in for CC (which gives out a lot of points if you review often [and correctly] or participate in contests), whereas the rest of the site doesn't have that kind of system. Values for posting in CC are the same as the rest of the board. The redemption thing isn't automatic; you have to actually note it so stuff can be reviewed and points awarded accordingly. You don't redeem your reviews and stuff; I don't award you points.

 

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As for the economy thing, yeah, it's sorely in need of updates. At least in terms of the stuff that goes for forum things because everything else bar CC was general suggestions that Aix pulled up.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Would you say it's more or less equal to 1000/post that CC has? This also means the Economy thread is in need of updates.

 

Edit: This also favors threads over points, and I think both should be rewarding in all sections. I think CC has the same thing but backwards?

Depends how active your topic is. I know general and tcg topics I've made generated in the 4 digit range.

 

That being said, CC is a bit higher, but I assume that's subsidizing people to post there

[Yui]

• Aix had a redemption thing for RPs at the time, but think that was dropped later.
  • IDK if Zai would be willing to re-implement this for RP to spur activity in there. Might also be good for Fanfics.

I'd like to put in a voice against a return of the RP cash-in thread. Given how RPs are starting to become more resilient (for lack of a better term), it's all the more likely that once the thread gets use down the line, RP will become an economy-breaking section. The Grand Crossover RP has over 2,000 replies at present and still hasn't ended yet, so when it does end, the point reward for doing so will have to either be decent but with the payoff for other RPs being negligible, or the GCRP alone will pump more points into the economy than the mod forum did until just recently.

 

There's also the issue with RPs that constitute multiple threads (Cherry Heart is the only example right now). What determines when those end, and how does one calculate how many replies it had? All the threads, or just the main one?

 

Not sure on any economic plans for other sections, but I just wanted to come in to point out that bringing back the RP cash-in thread in particular is an awful idea. Not that anyone ever used it while it was around, so the thing won't actually do anything, unless it does, in which case RP will rapidly become the 1% down the line when a lot of the longer-lasting RPs come to a close.

 

Although, this is more something that should be discussed in RP itself, so I'll drop it there.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'd like to put in a voice against a return of the RP cash-in thread. Given how RPs are starting to become more resilient (for lack of a better term), it's all the more likely that once the thread gets use down the line, RP will become an economy-breaking section. The Grand Crossover RP has over 2,000 replies at present and still hasn't ended yet, so when it does end, the point reward for doing so will have to either be decent but with the payoff for other RPs being negligible, or the GCRP alone will pump more points into the economy than the mod forum did until just recently.

 

There's also the issue with RPs that constitute multiple threads (Cherry Heart is the only example right now). What determines when those end, and how does one calculate how many replies it had? All the threads, or just the main one?

 

Not sure on any economic plans for other sections, but I just wanted to come in to point out that bringing back the RP cash-in thread in particular is an awful idea. Not that anyone ever used it while it was around, so the thing won't actually do anything, unless it does, in which case RP will rapidly become the 1% down the line when a lot of the longer-lasting RPs come to a close.

 

Although, this is more something that should be discussed in RP itself, so I'll drop it there.

Come to think of it, you could just buy everyone in Dollar a perma group lol and we'd fix your pt problem :3

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Would you say it's more or less equal to 1000/post that CC has? This also means the Economy thread is in need of updates.

 

Edit: This also favors threads over points, and I think both should be rewarding in all sections. I think CC has the same thing but backwards?

 

Custom Cards has the same point values for making a thread / post as most of the site*; 25 for making a thread, and 10 for making a reply (or getting one thereof); sans the Joke Card area, which doesn't give points.

 

Members get a lot more out of the section due to the review redemption threads in the regular areas, which again, requires them to actually submit stuff and for me to review / award accordingly.

 

I've also considered adding a system for redeeming cards you post in a similar vein, but still thinking over how it will work out. Further details, if this goes into effect, will be discussed in the CC update thread.

 

====

 

* Looking at the current values for the site in general:

• Fanfic generates 100 points/thread and 50 per post, whereas RP is 300 points for threads / 100 for replies.
  • You need to ask Aix why he set these values, as these are the current outliers.
• C&O gets no points for posting (but you do have post count enabled in there)
• Polls get 5 points for making a thread and making reply. (I think this was a leftover from the old system) 

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

 

Custom Cards has the same point values for making a thread / post as most of the site*; 25 for making a thread, and 10 for making a reply (or getting one thereof); sans the Joke Card area, which doesn't give points.

 

Members get a lot more out of the section due to the review redemption threads in the regular areas, which again, requires them to actually submit stuff and for me to review / award accordingly.

 

I've also considered adding a system for redeeming cards you post in a similar vein, but still thinking over how it will work out. Further details, if this goes into effect, will be discussed in the CC update thread.

 

====

 

* Looking at the current values for the site in general:

• Fanfic generates 100 points/thread and 50 per post, whereas RP is 300 points for threads / 100 for replies.
  • You need to ask Aix why he set these values, as these are the current outliers.
• C&O gets no points for posting (but you do have post count enabled in there)
• Polls get 5 points for making a thread and making reply. (I think this was a leftover from the old system)

Ah, alright. So perhaps the best approach for TCG would be to pretty much copy CC's point system (post-threadmaking redemption), since in its current form, Winter, who posts the most threads there, seems to be doing worse than CCers (for example, Dova has like 3 million to Winter's 130k. Not sure if either have been spending lots of points but I still highly doubt Dova has put in ~23x the effort Winter has into this forum in its entirety). I imagine other TCG posters are even worse off.

[~~~~]

I don't know if this would be possible, but is some sort of points to real world money exchange system worth considering?

[Dova]

Ah, alright. So perhaps the best approach for TCG would be to pretty much copy CC's point system (post-threadmaking redemption), since in its current form, Winter, who posts the most threads there, seems to be doing worse than CCers (for example, Dova has like 3 million to Winter's 130k. Not sure if either have been spending lots of points but I still highly doubt Dova has put in ~23x the effort Winter has into this forum in its entirety). I imagine other TCG posters are even worse off.

 

Just want to say that I have no idea where at least 3 million of my points came from. Most of the rest of it I got from tournaments, cashing in reviews, a lot of CC posts etc. but the main portion I just found on my account during/after Halloween 2016. I remember logging on in November and suddenly noticing I had a couple million points, and had absolutely no idea where they came from.

 

I don't mind if they're removed; I would've only used it for competition rewards anyway.

 

---

 

I really can't think of anything else to do with points on a forum, but cutting off a lot of them is a start for opening up those doors.

 

Perhaps a form of consultation for RPs and such? Problem with that is that people are too nice and help anyway, so scratch that. Now, if only we had a custom format...

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Just want to say that I have no idea where at least 3 million of my points came from. Most of the rest of it I got from tournaments, cashing in reviews, a lot of CC posts etc. but the main portion I just found on my account during/after Halloween 2016. I remember logging on in November and suddenly noticing I had a couple million points, and had absolutely no idea where they came from.

 

I don't mind if they're removed; I would've only used it for competition rewards anyway.

 

---

 

I really can't think of anything else to do with points on a forum, but cutting off a lot of them is a start for opening up those doors.

 

Perhaps a form of consultation for RPs and such? Problem with that is that people are too nice and help anyway, so scratch that. Now, if only we had a custom format...

Our lord and fallen Hero Enguin came across a vast fortune he shared with his friends 

God rest his giving soul

[mitchermitcher]

regardless of ease of acquisition points wont matter until there's more things to use them on. right now, the only major things i can think of are member groups, and the problem with that is that they are pretty expensive (perma groups are 40k, temp ones are like 10k or something idk, and monthly maintenance costs were 1k which is more accessible). it means that points gained from a small number of posts mean fairly little and unless you're willing to let your points sit and accumulate, they have little to no value.

 

as mentioned earlier the gfx section exists but it's not very alive, and the people who make gfx themselves don't have a lot of incentive to gain points since again, their usage is so limited.

 

fix the shop and make more items with more functionality. unlocking new ycm themes through points could be one. maybe get rid of free name changes altogether? it might be way too restrictive but maybe, making misc threads/posts actually costs points? it'd be an interesting form of quality control at least. i cant think of many uses yet but i'm sure someone else can come up with more. the main point is that there needs to be more things you can do with points, this is more important than how easy/difficult it is to gain them.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

We need to see if the shop can be fixed from Tormey's end before addressing any of the new items. Make sure that it can actually give you the item instead of sapping points for nothing. I also mentioned the lottery function, but that's dependent on making the shop module work again (outside of quick donations).

 

Adding new themes with points could be a thing, but would require having to work it into the system. Closest we can get right now is just have the themes available to a certain group, you pay us money to get access to it and then we add it as a secondary.

 

Charging for Misc posts could work, but I don't know if IP.Boards has a plugin that can charge people money to post in particular forums. Right now, we can technically restrict posting/viewing in areas based on minimum post count, but that's it. Also might sap activity a bit.

 

(IDK, maybe it could be possible to set negative point gains for a section; that might be a workaround, but it hasn't been tested.)

 

I don't know if this would be possible, but is some sort of points to real world money exchange system worth considering?

 
Given the fluctuating amounts of different currencies, probably no. Also the matter of "who's going to be paying for it?"
 
A general reminder to all of you that the staff aren't getting paid to run this place / have external expenses for our own lives to handle. So yeah, it is out of the question right now, as with any real life products.
 

Ah, alright. So perhaps the best approach for TCG would be to pretty much copy CC's point system (post-threadmaking redemption), since in its current form, Winter, who posts the most threads there, seems to be doing worse than CCers (for example, Dova has like 3 million to Winter's 130k. Not sure if either have been spending lots of points but I still highly doubt Dova has put in ~23x the effort Winter has into this forum in its entirety). I imagine other TCG posters are even worse off.
 

 
You'd have to take it up with Broken as to how the thing should be set up for the section, if he's willing to do this. For TCG, that would probably have to be something related to posting quality in the area (did you at least provide something to build a healthy discussion on for each thread) or being helpful with rulings / Deck building, etc. I can't speak of what kind of things he would make up for grabs here. 
 
Note that I'm only talking about the Yugioh portion of the TCG area; Flame would be the one you'd talk to about implementing it for the Other TCG part.

[~~~~]

What if you could pay points to unlock more emojis? Like this type  :Snoop Dogg:   

 

or what about different fonts?