Mod Abuse/Doppelganger Rule

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Attention getting ain't it? I like the term Doppelganger Rule, let's use that now.

 

Anyway since Dae's threads are locked it might seem to be risky to post this but I feel like this is an important topic that should be addressed, even if he's not serious, which I kinda think he is since he wasn't spamming it in Misc instead.

 

So Dae was using name/avatar of Striker for a time which is against a more recent rule. They were changed, which on its own is fine given the current rule, however it was changed to resemble another member, and a mod nonetheless, which is exactly the opposite of the purpose of the rule. It makes no sense to change it from one to another if the reason for doing so was to uphold the rule.

 

Especially as it started, iirc, with Enguin getting in trouble for "impersonating" a mod.

 

Now, as to the rule itself. I think it should be a case by case basis.

 

Perhaps make it that they must be noticeably different and only be changed/punished if they are too similar or if the original member has an issue with it. (And if its the later a PM and change is fine, if they straight up put name/avatar that's too similar then a warning might be in order).

It would also help if the aliases worked as they are meant to but that's another story.

 

In either case I don't know if Dae is joking around but it does feel really iffy that he has what I feel is a legitimate concern and is just being pushed to the side/ignored/punished.

[Simping For Hina]

To be honest, I am really pissed off that they constantly change my name and avatar and yet do not come forth to bring attention to them doing so. It is blatant disregard for any member, especially since I do not consent to any changes to my information on any degree. It is fine if it is requested of me to change it, but the mods do not communicate do so. If I act against the rules, the mods do not bring attention to it, they just handle it and brush under the rug. They also act on the own accord to take action, but not discussion. I have received no warnings from taking on a name. I also have received no notion of who did so, or even request to change my name. Mods do what they want to a persons' aesthetic.

 

"But why do you care?" I care the same reason for most things, it personally affects me as it isn't just a name but it is a name that I did not authorize. Mods took to their own place to change my name and avatar without request. They won't even talk about it. Sakura is most likely here doing the communication, but she just says "follow the rules" while the mods even go against their rule, 'causing me to imitate Night when imitating Striker was not allowed.

 

Honestly, I just don't want my account being touched unless I authorize it. If the mods want me to change it or tell me to do so, fine. When I had signatures that were too long, I had received PMs to change it to the appropriate length. I had a choice in the matter of doing so; I could remove or edit it the way I want, not how the mods do so. But the mods do not do this for some dumbass reason that makes no sense except the fact that they can't waste two minutes to do so.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Enguin didn't just get in trouble for it. They perma banned him for a week, and then used that 1 week ban to say he was a recurring troublemaker to perma him forever

 

Deal with it, the mods have little respect for the rules they agree to. They'll bend and abuse the rules to milk out their agenda. Sooner you accept they can do w/e the funk they want (be it changing names, or titles of threads, or reading rules through an activism lens), the less you'll be shocked by things like the Dae incident

 

I did tell you guys so, I'm honestly (pleasantly) shocked Dae wasnt banned. Then again, consistency hasn't been a strong suit here

[Phantom Roxas]

Enguin didn't just get in trouble for it. They perma banned him for a week, and then used that 1 week ban to say he was a recurring troublemaker to perma him forever

 

Deal with it, the mods have little respect for the rules they agree to. They'll bend and abuse the rules to milk out their agenda. Sooner you accept they can do w/e the funk they want (be it changing names, or titles of threads, or reading rules through an activism lens), the less you'll be shocked by things like the Dae incident

 

I did tell you guys so, I'm honestly (pleasantly) shocked Dae wasnt banned. Then again, consistency hasn't been a strong suit here

 

No, the mods respect the rules just fine.

 

It's that people like you hate being held accountable and told to abide by the rules. It's easier to blame the mods for "abusing" their power than admitting your own fault.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

No, the mods respect the rules just fine.

 

It's that people like you hate being held accountable and told to abide by the rules. It's easier to blame the mods for "abusing" their power than admitting your own fault.

Except my post makes it abundantly clear they didn't at least in this case.

If you want to fight with Winter please don't do it here, I'd rather not have this thread devolve and go away from the issue at hand.

[Yui]

I don't know Dae all that well, but from what I'm pretty sure I do know, he's not the sort of person to act like somebody else changed his name/avi after doing it himself. Knowing him, he'd probably own up to it publicly like "yeah, I did it, funk you gon' do?". I've also got a big hunch about which mod in particular did it (if any), but that's something I'll come back round to if it's deemed relevant to the current topic. For now, here's my stance on the doppelganger rule and this recent case where Dae's apparently had his name/avi changed by a mod to resemble Night's:

 

The rule itself is something of a necessity for clarity's sake with newer members, and I can't imagine any of our active members would go out of their way to willingly break it. I really like the ideas you've brought to the table about modifying it, too; I had that kind of stuff in my head as well when the rule was being made, though I guess it never got into the rule's final draft somehow. If he legitimately didn't do it himself and it was a mod, this isn't something that the threads about it should be locked and shoved aside; it's actually a massive issue if someone on the team is misusing their power like that to get him in trouble over the doppelganger rule. Now, that said, there was one possibility I considered coming into this thread and thinking of the Dae incident.

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/355322-serious-fun-times-consent-forms

The funtimes thread. The issue there, however, is that Dae redacted his consent to funtimes in April, and I took care to remove him from the list of consenting users accordingly and everything. The general idea here is that somebody might have mistaken him being the last person to post in the thread as him consenting, which I'd understand; mistakes happen and stuff. However, if that is the case, we should at least be hearing from the mod responsible (again, assuming this isn't all a giant ruse on Dae's part (I for one refuse to believe this is some giant ruse)).

 

While some tweaks to the rule would be a welcome quality-of-life change (reminder that there have been at least two name/avatar fads where users impersonated other users; there's precedent for people being cool with doppelgangers), I think the priority right now should be figuring out who exactly changed Dae to resemble Night, be it Dae himself or a mod that either didn't know better or is trying some shady backhanded sheet.

 

Enguin didn't just get in trouble for it. They perma banned him for a week, and then used that 1 week ban to say he was a recurring troublemaker to perma him forever

Deal with it, the mods have little respect for the rules they agree to. They'll bend and abuse the rules to milk out their agenda. Sooner you accept they can do w/e the funk they want (be it changing names, or titles of threads, or reading rules through an activism lens), the less you'll be shocked by things like the Dae incident

I did tell you guys so, I'm honestly (pleasantly) shocked Dae wasnt banned. Then again, consistency hasn't been a strong suit here

No, the mods respect the rules just fine.

 

It's that people like you hate being held accountable and told to abide by the rules. It's easier to blame the mods for "abusing" their power than admitting your own fault.

Enguin shouldn't have been given his week ban, and I've already said that several times as the person who handed it down. I've fessed up to my mistake and let it go, but the mistake of one person who isn't even on the mod team anymore shouldn't be used to reflect what's currently happening with Dae. That said, I'll be wrapping this up by mirroring what Cow said just above; this isn't the place for you two to fight it out, and the topic is actually rather important.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't know Dae all that well, but from what I'm pretty sure I do know, he's not the sort of person to act like somebody else changed his name/avi after doing it himself. Knowing him, he'd probably own up to it publicly like "yeah, I did it, funk you gon' do?". I've also got a big hunch about which mod in particular did it (if any), but that's something I'll come back round to if it's deemed relevant to the current topic. For now, here's my stance on the doppelganger rule and this recent case where Dae's apparently had his name/avi changed by a mod to resemble Night's:

 

The rule itself is something of a necessity for clarity's sake with newer members, and I can't imagine any of our active members would go out of their way to willingly break it. I really like the ideas you've brought to the table about modifying it, too; I had that kind of stuff in my head as well when the rule was being made, though I guess it never got into the rule's final draft somehow. If he legitimately didn't do it himself and it was a mod, this isn't something that the threads about it should be locked and shoved aside; it's actually a massive issue if someone on the team is misusing their power like that to get him in trouble over the doppelganger rule. Now, that said, there was one possibility I considered coming into this thread and thinking of the Dae incident.

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/355322-serious-fun-times-consent-forms

The funtimes thread. The issue there, however, is that Dae redacted his consent to funtimes in April, and I took care to remove him from the list of consenting users accordingly and everything. The general idea here is that somebody might have mistaken him being the last person to post in the thread as him consenting, which I'd understand; mistakes happen and stuff. However, if that is the case, we should at least be hearing from the mod responsible (again, assuming this isn't all a giant ruse on Dae's part (I for one refuse to believe this is some giant ruse)).

 

While some tweaks to the rule would be a welcome quality-of-life change (reminder that there have been at least two name/avatar fads where users impersonated other users; there's precedent for people being cool with doppelgangers), I think the priority right now should be figuring out who exactly changed Dae to resemble Night, be it Dae himself or a mod that either didn't know better or is trying some shady backhanded sheet.

 

Enguin shouldn't have been given his week ban, and I've already said that several times as the person who handed it down. I've fessed up to my mistake and let it go, but the mistake of one person who isn't even on the mod team anymore shouldn't be used to reflect what's currently happening with Dae. That said, I'll be wrapping this up by mirroring what Cow said just above; this isn't the place for you two to fight it out, and the topic is actually rather important.

Please don't make this plural. I didn't mention him at all, becuase he's not relevant

 

My point was the mods used your 1 week ban to justify Enguin as a repeat perma ban guy (which he was not)

 

They bent the rules for an outcome they still have trouble justifying

 

My post has 0 to do with Roxas, and I'm not taking his bellicose bait

 

---

 

This situation feels similar to Strikers situation, I don't the crime is egregious, what does concern me is the mods thing this is OK to do (as you noted)

 

---

 

Right now, the mods can do just about anything. The rules are an optional guideline for them to follow when they feel like it. There's no point being shocked at the quo

[Dad]

No, the mods respect the rules just fine.

 

It's that people like you hate being held accountable and told to abide by the rules. It's easier to blame the mods for "abusing" their power than admitting your own fault.

 

I told you about this.  I'm giving you one, and only one, clear warning.  And that's this post.  Do me a favor and knock it off.  If I have to ask you again, I will punish you myself.

 

---

 

This whole thing with Dae has honestly gotten past me for the most part.  I'm surprised anyone changed his name considering I used to be the one pulling these types of jokes (not forgetting Yui of course).  Dae and Night was even used.  What I don't get are the sudden rule changes around Dae's activity.

 

Mind you, I've been basically afk preparing for school, getting into Alpha Beta Phi (YEAH BOI) and preparing my rp.  I've paid no attention to this whole charade minus the report I just received.  And as Yui stated, Dae backed out of fun times consent forever ago.  So afaik, this is out of my hands.  I'll be here to keep things civil for the most part, and spend the rest of the time trying to figure this sheet out.  

[Simping For Hina]

For note: I had two available name changes. I changed my name to "Nathanael Dae Striker", imitating but not directly acknowledging Striker's previous name. Then, he changed it, and I changed mine to "Dae Timekeeper" once he changed his name. I kept "Dae" in at all times. And I have an alias, which was created for the reason that people don't confuse other members since we all change our names anyways. I never took on the actual name or even tried to copy him, just to imitate enough that people would get caught of guard yet still know it was me. Please, I've done worse sheet than this.

 

I also never publicly ridiculed or impersonated Striker without the form of humor, and I never made fun of Striker in any sense. I only imitated him. Striker has a tendency to talk about "Root Beer", "Oregon", and "1v1 Leaderboard. I made an AMA thread. I copied some of his statuses. I even replied to his status. But I never acted in any form of coercion to bring Striker down or attribute to any heinous attitudes that I am naturally known for. My jokes were in the same intent as making fun of Spinny's breakdown, yet which I have not received anything for mocking that except for a time out. That wasn't due to the copypasta, it was due to spamming the copy pasta.

 

I didn't change my name to "Dae and Night" or to "Dae". I never changed my avatar to Night's avatar or this one. Plus, I also made the avatar that Striker, when he took on the name "The Timekeeper". I have more right to that avatar than Striker does, even if I have it open to the public in my Showcase thread. Striker can attest to it being mine and I can take the avatar down if I want to. I still have the file, the link, and I can screencapture all of this to prove it.

I have backed out of the "Consent Fun TIme things" for this exact reason, because I don't want funkers changing my sheet without requesting me to do so. If Striker had a problem with it, he should have talked to me before bringing it up to the mods, especially if this type of attitude shouldn't be repeated. I have gotten nothing in the form of punishment or anything else. The mods just said that this was against the rules, and they even went against their rules to make me imitate another member.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

That was snatch steal, not spinny. Just thought I'd mention.

 

Have no interest in typing too much, but basically I side with dae here, and my main issue is that at least 1 mod has a habit of just doing stuff without telling anyone or giving much reason for the actions.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't know who used to do it, and I really didn't mind, but someone used to add El-Shaddoll Construct to my profile and type in "Free Construct"

 

I love shaddolls, miss construct, and agree with the sentiment, but someone used to do it without asking me

 

I can't help but think that Dae's name change was done without malicious intent, but regardless, they should have asked for his permission given he no longer was part of the fun times thing

[J-Max]

As I mentioned in the thread yesterday, i'm not a big fan at all of names and such to be changed without the owners consent. I know the whole doppelganger rule but Dae clearly had the name Dae as part of the name. If it was say 'The T1mekeeper' or something then I would totally understand having to change it.

[Simping For Hina]

I have demands.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

I have demands.

Demands? Demands you say? Well, what are they?

 

For the record, I changed my name the first time so you could have fun being me and because I was already thinking about The Timekeeper switch since New Years Eve (I had to use Internet Archive to track down the avi as I don't have it on my laptop anymore, and thanks Dae). Also, I didn't explicitly ask for your stuff to changed. I suppose I was surprised and mildly annoyed, but not enough to have an issue. No harm was being done. So if the damn shop was working, I'd fund the name change myself.

[Simping For Hina]

Ah, so the mods were literally just pissing on a problem that didn't exist because they, for some reason, wanted to. Use the avatar. I was just establishing the mods sticking their noises into what they didn't know, and taking action that is meaningless.

[Blake]

Can we get some sort of statement here?

 

I appreciate Dad's efforts here and in the status bar yesterday, but it's clear that he wasn't involved with this happening, and there are certain issues that need to be discussed. While Giga's being incredibly vague about who he means, I'm sure the team realizes, and it is a fair point. It's just not the immediately important one, which is more addressing why and how this happened.

 

Being relatively silent on this does not paint a good picture. The team said it could handle PR, but it's been days since this happened/more than a day since this thread was posted, and we have a single reiteration of the rules, which backfired horribly... and Dad's attempts here, which are someone taking a PR Role and trying to smooth it over, as it should be, instead of the people who swore they could handled doing that part of the job doing it. It's yet another example of the team failing to actually do any sort of communicating.

 

And then there's actually addressing Dae. He got that single quotation of the rules while being otherwise shut down. He's stuck with a name that is not of his choosing. The avatar is less of an issue, but it's still in bad taste.

 

You can say "Oh, Dae should have PMd us"... But that's not a reliable option. Certain mods will look at a PM then ignore it. Others will address it. Others still will be confused as to wth is going on. If he PMd every single mod, it would be seen as obnoxious. If he PMd a single mod, it would be luck of the draw, and then seen as being obnoxious if he moved on from there. There's no winning with PMs, especially when this bled over into discussion about a rule, on top of everything else.

 

Speaking of, the rule is stupid. You don't need blanket statements to tell you how to handle cases like that. It's pretty obvious when someone is doing it maliciously vs. for fun, and Dae's been known to do it for fun for a loooong ass time. Hell, lots of members do it. We even had a fad where tons of people were Yui. The rule seems like it was put there as a justification for how Enguin was handled, though I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

 

It would be nice to hear something. This need for hushhush unity the team exhibits always does more harm than good, considering how little actual backlask came of Enguin's 1-week ban after it was said the team wasn't in total unison/Yui admitted to it. Have some faith in the members.

Also:

This whole thing with Dae has honestly gotten past me for the most part.  I'm surprised anyone changed his name considering I used to be the one pulling these types of jokes (not forgetting Yui of course).  Dae and Night was even used.  What I don't get are the sudden rule changes around Dae's activity.

 

Mind you, I've been basically afk preparing for school, getting into Alpha Beta Phi (YEAH BOI) and preparing my rp.  I've paid no attention to this whole charade minus the report I just received.  And as Yui stated, Dae backed out of fun times consent forever ago.  So afaik, this is out of my hands.  I'll be here to keep things civil for the most part, and spend the rest of the time trying to figure this sheet out.  

This is a great job. Sure, he could be breathing fire at the rest of the team openly to make people feel vindicated, but that's not the funking point of trying to parley with the members. No one should have ever expected that to be the point of PR, though I don't know if anyone actually though that, member or mod.

 

Thank you for doing at least something.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I mean there's only one mod who goes around being invisible 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Here's the explanation.
 
What happened

• Dae copies Striker's name and avatar. Also refer to Misc thread saying "I'm Striker", which did bug him.
• Striker requests a name change over Discord to counter it, though he told me nothing about wanting to take The Timekeeper name anyway.
• Dae decides to copy THAT one, albeit as Dae Timekeeper. (He still used Striker's avatar)
• Under rule 12, we reserve the right to change names if they're copying another user and they did not consent to being mimicked.
  • In this case, it was invoked and Dae got a name/avi change, though the mistake was using Night's name and avatar, and should've just been plain Dae, which I did return it to later on.
  • Whatever avatar he has right now came from the archives as I could not retrieve his last one.

What should've been done
 
At the very most, his avatar removed and then name returned to just plain Dae (or his previous name before the name change thing); not the one that says "Dae and Night".
 
This part is on me, and yeah, SHOULD NOT have happened.
 
Rule 12
 
You guys figured this out by now, but that rule was partially influenced by the Discord drama. I also need to remind all of you that Discord matters belong on Discord itself, not YCM. Point being is that we want to avoid having another incident of the sort in the future here.
 
While there is no harm in using another user's name/avatar, especially if it is just an anime/manga character that isn't the sole property of one particular member, it is an issue if you mimic their profile details completely and pass yourselves off as them without their consent. The case with users copying Yui, Aix, Nai, etc a while back passed because they were fine with it being made a fad.
 
In this case, Dae, you did take Striker's name, avatar at the time and then made a thread passing yourself off as him, which he didn't take kindly to.
 
Yes, we have the alias system, but that only works for members who've been here a while and know who everyone is.

=====
As for definitive changes to this rule:

• Modify it so it's clear that copying a moderator's profile details is not allowed (or making yourself look similar to that of an active mod).
• Modify it so the name/avatar must be very close to the original user, or if the member in question disapproves of it. 

Again though, this is almost never enforced, and this just happened to be the one time where it was, but not justified.
 
=====
Whatever happened to Dae a couple days ago shouldn't have occurred; least in the capacity it did. 
=====
 

 
Pertaining to Black's post about having faith in the member base, we would be willing to say things more often if some of you would come forward with legitimate concerns and not repeatedly complain about various issues (i.e. site/section policies you don't like, demanding that certain mods resign because they don't fit your brand of YCM, a decision being biased against you, etc), while remaining mature about the matter.
 
Please note that it says SOME, not ALL.

 

We're not perfect.
 
The rules are not perfect and likely will never be (due to the inability to address everything that comes up). However, they are in place so this site can remain amicable for members for the foreseeable future, and retain a reasonable standard of posting. This applies to both the general rules and specific ones pertinent to a particular area.
 
The moderation team is not perfect either, and I'm no exception to this. I'm not a social person and I've already said this enough times. However, if you do have a grievance, either with me or things that pertain to how I run my section or so forth, then please, PM me directly (I do read my messages). Same goes for any other staff member you have issues with, or even message us if there are problem users that need to be addressed. 
 
Why does it take you guys forever to make a statement?
 
One issue [in general] is agreeing on one that we can all agree with, or least the majority thereof. There is also the matter of saying the required information in a way that doesn't incur more damage to us than necessary, if the decisions were poorly thought out.
 
"We did something wrong and the situation turned out the way it did; let's not make it any worse. Also, what parts of the discussion need to be kept between us only, and what can be publicly released."
 
Timezone differences are often a problem, even though most of us are from the US (exceptions being Smear and Broke. N) and again, our offsite lives causing us to be absent. You all know that Night and Smear both work full-time, and the rest of us have school, part-time jobs and so forth. Often, some of us aren't here to make decisions, and thus it does fall on the active mods at the time to render a decision.
 
We understand the need for urgency for certain cases, but to avoid having screw-ups like in the past, we do have to talk things over carefully. Some decisions in the past were rushed, and those must be avoided.
 
Takeaway.
 
Don't use every thread that comes up to trash talk the team and/or our decisions, nor derail discussions into a personal rant blog about what you hate about us. Some of you may not agree with decisions we make, but they are done with the forum's overall health in mind.
 
We want to be more open, but it also falls on you to be open-minded about things and not continually complain about the same matter multiple times in a discussion, especially if it is irrelevant to the subject at hand. Respect what we're trying to say, and we will reciprocate.
 
Moderators are human, just like the rest of you. We're not machines, we're not gods and we are prone to mistakes; sometimes more than we should be.

 

Bring your concerns up in a civil manner, be open-minded to what we're trying to say and don't turn the discussion into a one-sided rant/complaint, and we'll be more than willing to tell you more things earlier on and more frequently. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Who hid my post on Enguin's thread sakura? Was that also you? The usual action for Necros is locking a thread, why hide my post when it's directly critical of a mod talking point.

 

When a gear in a machine repeatedly works sub-optimally, it's usually replaced. Do you guys just get to keep trampling on rules you guys agreed to and then get to make a mea culpa a few days later?

 

I get that life can be really busy, what I don't get is why the mod team insists on stressing their life further to deliver a half-assed job as moderators. Step down and let someone else with more time do it?

 

Humans make mistakes, but humans are expected to learn from mistakes. You're basically telling us to suck it up. 

[Yui]

Under rule 12, we reserve the right to change names if they're copying another user and they did not consent to being mimicked.

As the guy who is half the reason Rule 12 was proposed, the guy who wrote the damn rule, and a former mod (I'll be using "we" in this post in that capacity), you're technically correct. However, you didn't PM Dae about it (it's standard mod procedure to PM ANY member when actions are taken toward them) and changed his name/avi to mimic a super mod. Simply changing it back to Dae, and perhaps PMing him about it like we're supposed to do, would have been the correct way to take this. Not what you did. Just because you admit it was your mistake, that doesn't mean you can't be held accountable for it. I've still got people talking to me about Enguin's three-day ban.

 

Pertaining to Black's post about having faith in the member base, we would be willing to say things more often if some of you would come forward with legitimate concerns and not repeatedly complain about various issues (i.e. site/section policies you don't like, demanding that certain mods resign because they don't fit your brand of YCM, a decision being biased against you, etc), while remaining mature about the matter.

I'm gonna stop you right there. The only things I've heard from anyone not named Winter (not throwing shade on you my dude; this is just the only way to phrase this) are legitimate concerns, not with how the mod team is running things, but the team itself. And I know y'all have heard about this too and just handwaving it because of it mostly coming from this member or that one, despite being actual concerns with how the site is being run and who's running it. I won't go into the disgusting excuse we've got for botched PR because that's a subject for another day, but the bottom line is that our refusal to talk to the members makes an already-bad team look even worse. We need to talk to people, and the fact that we tried getting a dedicated guy for it, which led to the single most vocally-opposed mod currently on the team still having the job he wasn't even put in for... like how does a mod team even funk up PR that badly? Are we EA now?

 

Timezone differences are often a problem, even though most of us are from the US (exceptions being Smear and Broke. N) and again, our offsite lives causing us to be absent. You all know that Night and Smear both work full-time, and the rest of us have school, part-time jobs and so forth. Often, some of us aren't here to make decisions, and thus it does fall on the active mods at the time to render a decision.

Night and Broken I'll take, but Smear is not an acceptable example for a mod having trouble being here to help with decisions. He's barely even here period. Come to think of it, like half the team barely seems to be online at all. It's not that you're having trouble making a decision, so much as y'all aren't there to make it in the first place.

 

Takeaway.

This whole bit. This entire bit sounds like it's specifically targeted at Winter, and if so, it's better to straight-up say that instead of passive-aggressively pretending there's six or seven of him running rampant in this thread. The members aren't going to respect the mod team if they handwave half of the criticism they get, then give half-assed excuses for the other half. This type of sheet is part of why I left the team in the first place. However, this thread is more about the doppelganger rule than the team itself, so that's a rant for another time.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If you can't do your job properly due to real life, stop halfassing both and retire

[mitchermitcher]

i don't know, you guys could've just made a polite request/warning to dae to stop ''impersonating'' striker first? you had the right to change his sheet, but considering he's an active regular member of ycm, some attempt to clear the situation without formally invoking mod powers would've been fine.

 

and tbh it's not blatant enough to be impersonation, just parodying.

[Dad]

i don't know, you guys could've just made a polite request/warning to dae to stop ''impersonating'' striker first? you had the right to change his sheet, but considering he's an active regular member of ycm, some attempt to clear the situation without formally invoking mod powers would've been fine.

 

and tbh it's not blatant enough to be impersonation, just parodying.

Dae removed his fun times consent so this is technically false.

[Blake]

Or maybe we just get rid of Rule 12???

 

Like, it's entirely stupid. It's a justification for an old misstep, which should be treated as a misstep, and it's incredibly impractical. Even resembling a mod doesn't do anything outside of the status bar, because there's no Moderator tag attached to their posts. Everything about Enguin's situation on Discord, which you're referring to in a slant, was due to a mistake on the team's part followed by no malicious abuse of power. He was not innocent, but you guys beyond overreacted, and that rule's existence proves it.

 

"Some decisions in the past were rushed..."

 

Like this one?

 

You guys don't understand anything about when appearing "unified" is good, as opposed to when being quick and honest is good. Striking Dae in secret made no sense, but waiting days to explain it just made it worse. This was a situation for being quick and honest, yet your post and general tone just says "funk the members, they're whining again"... When the thread lacked pretty much anything of the sort.

 

It doesn't take days to make a response to this. It doesn't need a trumped up list or two to sell the point. It takes admitting your mistake and fixing it. It takes addressing concerns.

 

Neither of which have happened.

 

This isn't poor poor mod team being beat up on. Even the one status calling for your head was taken down, because it wasn't going to help anything. you can turn a blind eye and pretend they're picking on you all you want, but the members can clearly see that's not the case.

 

And don't pull the "irrelevant" card, like you did in the takeaway. This is a topic about the doppelganger rule and Mod Abuse. Addressing concerns with your response to these issues is on-topic. You can call Winter off-topic, but that's about it. You guys are terrible at communicating.

[Simping For Hina]

Here's the explanation.

 

What happened

• Dae copies Striker's name and avatar. Also refer to Misc thread saying "I'm Striker", which did bug him.
• Striker requests a name change over Discord to counter it, though he told me nothing about wanting to take The Timekeeper name anyway.
• Dae decides to copy THAT one, albeit as Dae Timekeeper. (He still used Striker's avatar)
• Under rule 12, we reserve the right to change names if they're copying another user and they did not consent to being mimicked.
  • In this case, it was invoked and Dae got a name/avi change, though the mistake was using Night's name and avatar, and should've just been plain Dae, which I did return it to later on.
  • Whatever avatar he has right now came from the archives as I could not retrieve his last one.

What should've been done

 

At the very most, his avatar removed and then name returned to just plain Dae (or his previous name before the name change thing); not the one that says "Dae and Night".

 

This part is on me, and yeah, SHOULD NOT have happened.

 

Rule 12

 

You guys figured this out by now, but that rule was partially influenced by the Discord drama. I also need to remind all of you that Discord matters belong on Discord itself, not YCM. Point being is that we want to avoid having another incident of the sort in the future here.

 

While there is no harm in using another user's name/avatar, especially if it is just an anime/manga character that isn't the sole property of one particular member, it is an issue if you mimic their profile details completely and pass yourselves off as them without their consent. The case with users copying Yui, Aix, Nai, etc a while back passed because they were fine with it being made a fad.

 

In this case, Dae, you did take Striker's name, avatar at the time and then made a thread passing yourself off as him, which he didn't take kindly to.

 

Yes, we have the alias system, but that only works for members who've been here a while and know who everyone is.

 

=====

As for definitive changes to this rule:

• Modify it so it's clear that copying a moderator's profile details is not allowed (or making yourself look similar to that of an active mod).
• Modify it so the name/avatar must be very close to the original user, or if the member in question disapproves of it. 

Again though, this is almost never enforced, and this just happened to be the one time where it was, but not justified.

 

=====

Whatever happened to Dae a couple days ago shouldn't have occurred; least in the capacity it did. 

=====

 

 

Pertaining to Black's post about having faith in the member base, we would be willing to say things more often if some of you would come forward with legitimate concerns and not repeatedly complain about various issues (i.e. site/section policies you don't like, demanding that certain mods resign because they don't fit your brand of YCM, a decision being biased against you, etc), while remaining mature about the matter.

 

Please note that it says SOME, not ALL.

 

We're not perfect.

 

The rules are not perfect and likely will never be (due to the inability to address everything that comes up). However, they are in place so this site can remain amicable for members for the foreseeable future, and retain a reasonable standard of posting. This applies to both the general rules and specific ones pertinent to a particular area.

 

The moderation team is not perfect either, and I'm no exception to this. I'm not a social person and I've already said this enough times. However, if you do have a grievance, either with me or things that pertain to how I run my section or so forth, then please, PM me directly (I do read my messages). Same goes for any other staff member you have issues with, or even message us if there are problem users that need to be addressed. 

 

Why does it take you guys forever to make a statement?

 

One issue [in general] is agreeing on one that we can all agree with, or least the majority thereof. There is also the matter of saying the required information in a way that doesn't incur more damage to us than necessary, if the decisions were poorly thought out.

 

"We did something wrong and the situation turned out the way it did; let's not make it any worse. Also, what parts of the discussion need to be kept between us only, and what can be publicly released."

 

Timezone differences are often a problem, even though most of us are from the US (exceptions being Smear and Broke. N) and again, our offsite lives causing us to be absent. You all know that Night and Smear both work full-time, and the rest of us have school, part-time jobs and so forth. Often, some of us aren't here to make decisions, and thus it does fall on the active mods at the time to render a decision.

 

We understand the need for urgency for certain cases, but to avoid having screw-ups like in the past, we do have to talk things over carefully. Some decisions in the past were rushed, and those must be avoided.

 

Takeaway.

 

Don't use every thread that comes up to trash talk the team and/or our decisions, nor derail discussions into a personal rant blog about what you hate about us. Some of you may not agree with decisions we make, but they are done with the forum's overall health in mind.

 

We want to be more open, but it also falls on you to be open-minded about things and not continually complain about the same matter multiple times in a discussion, especially if it is irrelevant to the subject at hand. Respect what we're trying to say, and we will reciprocate.

 

Moderators are human, just like the rest of you. We're not machines, we're not gods and we are prone to mistakes; sometimes more than we should be.

 

Bring your concerns up in a civil manner, be open-minded to what we're trying to say and don't turn the discussion into a one-sided rant/complaint, and we'll be more than willing to tell you more things earlier on and more frequently. 

To bring light to this post itself, the mod team does not take much seriously and I have no reason to bring forth attention to PMs when they choose to not do the same or even lock my posts to problems itself, that I bring up in the Comments and Suggestions subforum. You want to be more open, but it shouldn't fall on use to be more open about things. We should complain about things. It is not our job to think the fault of mods is nothing but unprofessional and terrible managed. It is our job to complain and desire change from it. It showing that we want to respect you guys, but you guys are not doing anything to require respect. You make mistakes, but every instance isn't just one mistake. It is a recurring set up of mistakes.  

 

I already brought light to the Misc. Thread, as it was in Misc. I was parodying Striker. Members even knew that it was me, if you look at the replies to the thread. Hell, newer members wouldn't even bother knowing what the AMA is about regardless of who. This seems to be the biggest qualm about this problem, too, and changing my name doesn't help to make it. I could make that thread without having the tag of "Striker" and it would yield the same results. If that is the issue, bring it to attention and not use your terrible moderation as an excuse for not diagnosing the real problems at hand. 

 

The overall health of the forum is fine. It is the micro problems that regurgitate throughout this site that keep popping up and making a bigger deal then it needs to be, if they were going be handled.  

 

Edit: Regurgitating same replies doesn't do sheet. Also, you mods locked my threads about this same issue. I made three of them.